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MLB Off-Season 2011: Only a few more weeks until the radio talks about baseball again
- Thread starter Windu
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Mr. Enigma
Member
Padres are expected to flip Alonso to another team in another trade.
Ninja Scooter
Member
They should send Rizzo to Theo and the Cubs.
They are going to end up with a boat load of talent for a guy they have been trying to trade for two+ seasons. They are 100% convinced his shoulder will be an issue the rest of his career, and everyone in baseball knew it. They weren't able to trade him to this point because everyone knew how set they were on moving him and were thus unwilling to give up what his performance demands.
Then all of a sudden the Reds overpay for him? Strange situation.
acheron_xl
Member
If I were a Reds fan, I'd be terrified about giving up so much for a young pitcher an injury history when Baker is still the coach. I think there's a chance that this absolutely blows up in their face.
TheNatural
My Member!
Reds finally make a move, and it's great. Volquez is trash, he's too erratic and hasn't been able to get it together, I'm tired of him. Alonso has no place to play, he'll be a good average hitter, but he's basically Sean Casey v2. He'll fit the Tony Gwynn role at San Diego. Grandal, haven't seen too much of, Reds still have Hanigan and Mesoroco at catcher.
Glad to see the Reds FINALLY do something and stop trying to fit square pegs in round holes and hoping prospect of the month comes through for them sitting on the bench.
Glad to see the Reds FINALLY do something and stop trying to fit square pegs in round holes and hoping prospect of the month comes through for them sitting on the bench.
TheNatural
My Member!
There's a chance anyone could get injured, and they're not giving up so much as far as these guys are unproven at the major league level, and sitting on the bench behind better players, and the Volquez experiment has long wore out it's welcome. I'm tired of waiting to hear about X starter trying to get his stuff together and then every fifth start throwing a gem and back to walking 5 plus guys a game.
They gave up a freaking ton in value, don't kid yourself. And that's without Volquez who is essentially meaningless in this deal. Three top 10 prospects is massive. A top tier catching prospect is gold. I see no real reason why they felt the need to package Alonzo and Grandal like that. Just foolish.
TheNatural
My Member!
Probably because Votto is playing at first and the Reds already have a better prospect at catcher and a major league ready catcher as well.
The point is to fucking win NOW. Not wait year after year and hope this or that guy pans out. Yeah, us Reds fans have already been through this routine a fuckton, and that record is old and tired.
No Pujols in the division, no Fielder, it's clearing out at the top and I'm tired of waiting for pitcher X to pan out and hope for the best. Reds have a legit 1-2 combo now with Latos and Cueto, and if Arroyo and Leake get their stuff together, that's a solid 4 pitching lineup now.
So yeah, you think it's foolish, but it's only foolish if your franchise wants to do nothing but sit on it's ass another 5 years doing nothing hoping for something to happen. I'm glad they made the move here and got someone who is a stud pitcher they have control over for 4 more years. Reds with 20th in ERA and WHIP last year, and now can upgrade that considerably and can win the division. All at the cost of an erratic pitcher and some prospects where players nearly as young and way better than them above them in the depth chart.
acheron_xl
Member
I wandered over to Red Reporter to get a sense of the Reds' fan reaction, and their totally psyched.
I think Jocketty clearly smells blood in the water and wants to win in 2012. Probably a smart move. They didn't give up anything that was going to help them immediately. However, If I were running the team, I would've gone after a pitcher with less risk. Perhaps there wasn't one out there, or all the options were interdivision. I can't imagine they'd want to deal any serious talent to the Cubs to get Garza, for instance.
acheron_xl
Member
Why? Pineda is awesome. I'd ask for more than the Reds gave up if I was dealing him.
I just think they sold those pieces low, imnot worried about those guys helpin them now.
TheNatural
My Member!
I saw this on ESPN.com and immediately was pumped, went and checked out the Reds Zone forums, of course there's the usual hating on giving up any prospect, but these are the same people that go out and say stupid shit like "Bailey plus Alonso for Cliff Lee, get it done Walt!"
Maybe that's all baseball fans, but everyone thinks their crap is the best, every prospect they have is going to turn out great, yadda yadda yadda. Reds fans especially should be tired of this record. I remember trading Aaron Boone to the Yanks for Claussen, OMG this guy is going to be a stud! Not so much.
When Bruce and Bailey were #1 and #2 in all of baseball as prospects, and now Bruce is a solid player - but not the sure fire MLB superstar that he was supposedly going to be, and Bailey has been nothing but a bust and now anchors the bottom of the rotation. And these were guys that were considered the top two prospects in baseball PERIOD.
I'm tired of that same song and dance and waiting and hoping for this or that guy to be the savior, I want to win now. People said the same shit when the Reds traded some double A player named Zach Stewart for Scott Rolen. "OMG Stewart is a stud, how could they give up him for some washed up guy like Rolen!!" Meanwhile Rolen spurred the Reds to their first playoff appearance in 15 fucking years, and Stewart has had 11 major league starts with a career 5.88 ERA. Even if Rolen is hurt all year for the rest of his career like last year, the trade was worth it because at least the Reds actually finally WON something.
I'm glad the Reds started doing something for the NOW and are making a run at this thing. Waiting and hoping for prospects to pan out is a tired game I'm through with playing and any Reds fan with any type of memory should be as well.
Oh I don't mean EXACTLY that package ... I wouldn't want Volquez at all. I would of also asked for Mesoroco over Grandal.
acheron_xl
Member
Don't give up yet. Bruce is still a few years from his peak. I think he's developing right on schedule.
Toss Brien Taylor and Drew Henson in the deal, and I think you can get it done.
talisayNon
Member
Pineda for Joba and Ian Kennedy
Well aren't you just the cutest.
I'm certainly not saying they should have waited on anyone. They should have been able to do this deal without including all three prospects and been able to turn Alonzo for an OF bat. I don't care about prospects for their potential, I care about them for their value.
TheNatural
My Member!
I'm not giving up, I'm just saying that Reds fans seem to think every prospect that's ever been on a top five list is a sure fire MVP, and time and time again have been burned. I don't see how anyone should be upset with this deal, unless you want to just be a part of the same old tired song and dance and play hypothetical and worry about if Votto might leave after TWO more years, if Mesoraco doesn't turn out well, if Volquez can get his stuff back. If, if, if ... it should be tired by now. I'm tired of this being the season 5 years from now and playing the 2017 season in 2012. Enough of it, we have the core pieces there, it's not going ot get any better than now, it's time to win.
I'm most upset that they traded Grendal because he was a really good catching prospect. Yonder doesn't bother me as much but he could turn out to be a star. Votto has all but said that he won't stay in Cincinnati once his contract is up so hopefully they trade for a first base prospect soon.
TheNatural
My Member!
They TRIED Alonso as an outfielder. The guy makes Adam Dunn look like Ricky Henderson. He's slow as fuck and so is Grandal. There are better players above both.
And a fan of a team thinking their prospects value is way more than it is in reality? That's a shocker. It's Deja Vu all over again with Rolen. Half the fans think we could have got Cliff Lee a few years back with Stubbs and Bailey, no shocker there. They're not worth as much as you think, reality check.
I said move him FOR an outfielder. I witnessed Yonder in left. Too much entertainment.
Dmncnby2k9
Banned
same here man. Sumbody on Amazin Avenue mentioned it, and I totally agree. Grandal would have been awesome.
It's mind boggling to me that Reds fans have no idea who he is.
A top catching prospect with power is probably the rarest commodity in the game. Jocketty is a moron.
Spot on. As a reds fan, I'm pretty psyched for this deal. I mean, It sucks giving up Alonso, but he had absolutely no place to play, as he bombed in the outfield. Grandal may be a good player, but we already have Meseraco and Hanigan as a duo behind the plate, and almost every scout likes Mez over Grandal. Volquez is garbage. Classic case of million dollar arm and a ten cent head. I've heard good things about Boxberger, but I'll take a potential front of the line starter over a good reliever any day.
Bottom line is, the Reds were just a few players away from being a pretty good team, especially by NL Central standards. And acquiring Latos may have put them back in the discussion for division champs. The goal is to win now. Reds fans have run out of patience.
Big deal. The Reds have Hannigan! lol
Even if this were true, it completely misses the point. Giving up guys just to give them up, when they could be used to fill other needs (like LF) is moronic. There is no reason that Grandal and Volquez shouldn't have been enough to get this deal done. The Padres were trading from a position of abject weakness, and somehow Jocketty still got fleeced. It's bizarre.
Yes it's nice to get pitching, but it's an overpay.
TheNatural
My Member!
And he's better than Mesoraco how?
Grandal has hit 14 homeruns in his minor league career and played 4 games at the AAA level. Until the guy actually does something significant, safe to say no one actually knows what his value is. He could have been bumped to Triple A this year and only hit .250, then Jocketty is a genius for unloading him before he was exposed.
TheNatural
My Member!
So, you just conveniently ignore Mesoraco, who is a more proven and better prospect?
It would have made the joke less humorous.
Everyone knows who Grandal is, but obviously they are higher on Mesaraco. What are you going to do with two stud catching prospects? You eventually have to pick one and flip the other for talent.
Mesoraco is not a better prospect.
Grandal will bury him offensively... I guess time will tell. All I know is that teams would give up a lot to have a catching prospect with his talent. A lot more than the Reds got in return.
Exactly. So why bundle your two best chips in (along with two additional serviceable pieces) to get a guy whose team has been trying to dump him for 28 months?
TheNatural
My Member!
LOL are you serious? So I got it now, you're in the Reds fan syndrome club where you think way more about the players you have than they're actually worth.
Let me get this straight, the Padres should have given up one of the top pitchers in all of baseball, who is young, and under control for four more years for dirt cheap salary
FOR
a pitcher who has been completely atrocious since coming off surgery and could be out of baseball completely next year if he continues to pitch like he has, and a catching prospect who hasn't even played at a Triple A level.
Yeah, that makes great sense for the Padres let me tell you. It's totally that Jocketty got fleeced and totally not the fact you are completely overrating what you think the players are worth.
1. The Padres gave up on Latos' shoulder in 2010 and made it known throughout the league that they were trying to move him. That's a key reason this deal is so surprising.
2. I'm discounting throwing in a reliever prospect. Boxberger is essentially valueless.
3. Catching prospects are gold. Catching prospects with power are platinum. You don't bundle them in with your second most tradeable commodity for a single player.
4. Flyball pitcher moving from Petco to GAB? yeeeesh
5. When did I become a Reds fan?
Flizzzipper
Member
Alonso is going to be a beast some where. Guy can flat out hit. Casey 2.0? Small chance.
TheNatural
My Member!
We'll see then, heard it all before. Like how Bailey was a sure fire Cy Young winner.
If the Reds make the playoffs and Latos is a major piece of that, this deal is a win no matter how you cut it, period.
With that package the Reds could have had any pitcher they wanted. I guarantee you if they made that offer to Seattle Hernandez would be a Red right now.
Point is, Reds could have gotten a lot more.
The Frankman
Banned
tyguy20204
Member
Have to agree, nice trade for the Padres, they definitely won the deal, from my perspective. At the same time, Latos is a great piece for the Reds. Yeah, he's a fly-ball pitcher, but he's also filthy, and he's only 23.
If he's healthy, he'll be great. That's the real kicker.
If he's healthy, he'll be great. That's the real kicker.
vas_a_morir
Banned
I am kinda bummed, but I realize that pitching is what we need, and that doesn't come cheap. Remember when we traded Josh hamilton for volquez? Here we go again.
acheron_xl
Member
Brewers win the rights to Aoki.
Sweet.
Sweet.
Will wait for contract. I don't see a point to an old, light hitting weak armed outfielder personally.
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