Support NeoGAF

[Cakeboxer]

Dunno. Sony could raise the price of the PS5 up to 600 $ and would still be 50 $ cheaper than the XSX.
But Sony doesn't plan to raise the prices (for this year), even when they could and blame it on the RAM prices.

If i was Sony, i would do this just before the GTA VI launch. But i'm a greedy bastard.

 

[Team Andromeda]

We are talking about people spending $1000-$2000 on a gaming device, they are trying to blur the lines between console and PC without realising why console is so popular in the first place....... cost. As soon as this is over $1000 and no reason to believe that it won't be, then they have lost the majority of buyers. Ease of use is a very small part of why people buy consoles, heck, most people who buy consoles whether for themselves or for their kids have a PC, may not be a gaming PC but they'll own one so they know what a PC is and how to set things up on it.

You mention PS5 Pro, but can you buy a PC for the price of a Pro that can play the same games at the same quality? Not only that, there is a cheaper option... PS5 (which is still selling far better by the way, why? because its cheaper)

This is also why I believe PS6 will be no more than $700 ($600 is my guess), how well do you think XBox will sell if its double the price, regardless of specs?

Thats not the reason IMO.

What so many people overlook is that with a console eveything is included in the box to get you gaming, right down to the plug and TV leads. You don't have to think or worry about it, unlike with the PC

 

[Felessan]

Kinda weird to see people assume Sony is going to save them and keep costs down... if you want a cheaper console you are going to get a lot lower specs on a next gen machine. Pick your poison. Id rather pay more for a beefy ass machine and enjoy most power I could get for the next generation of my favorite hobby. And not in a pc, I already have a high end gaming pc and only use it for simple work tasks. Anyone praying for Sony to spit out a $700 ps6 will not be happy with the end product imo.

Specs target are kinda known for PS6 and it'll be usual console staff around mid-tier PC with some console-specific improvements. Mass market happy with 500$ ps5 and it'll be happy with 600-700$ ps6 as it will be best value for money offering.
And xbox "beef up machine" will be just PC, now with full screen experience. With it's price xbox will sell 3-5mil units, meaning that all that it'll get game wise is PC versions, except probably own MS stuff. So it'll be what promised - "curated expensive [PC] experience"

 

[Kazekage1981]

Don't developers receive some sort of alpha or beta SDK's to get code up and running before the final launch of the console?

An alpha/beta SDK for Magnus and PS6 would have hardware specs like: RDNA4/Zen5 with 20GB of GDDR6 with slightly more bandwidth than PS6Pro, then putting the finishing touches once the final SDK is released? 1st generation next gen games are never a reflection of full power of the console, and to make it worse it would be cross gen because they will use Series and PS5 as a base.

 

[Ozriel]

If this thing sells 5 million, it'll be an accomplishment.

In this economy, it's hard to think of a worse value proposition. All the same issues as the steam machine but with none of the fanfare.

Why are you confusing 'price' with 'value proposition'?
Those are entirely different things.

Imagine spending 1500 Euros on a console and then not getting any performance benefit out of it compared to a much cheaper PS6. That'd be brutal.

Even first party PlayStation ports on PC run better than console settings.
Even if the PS6 is the lead platform, the sheer difference in specs will tell.

 

[FalconPunch]

Why are you confusing 'price' with 'value proposition'?
Those are entirely different things.

Price dictates the perceived value proposition of an item. I'm not confusing anything.

 

[Trekinspace88]

Sounds good but this thing will not sell enough for MS to be happy it they have to price it above 1000 and alot of gamers aren't going to drop that kind of money on this especially is Sony can release the PS6 at 700-800.

As for me I'm not really interested in buying this as i already have a Gaming PC with a 9800x3d/5070ti and i also have 32gb ram installed. I'm not interested in BC with Xbox games as most games that i own on my XSX library i now own on Steam.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

Sounds good but this thing will not sell enough for MS to be happy it they have to price it above 1000 and alot of gamers aren't going to drop that kind of money on this especially is Sony can release the PS6 at 700-800.

As for me I'm not really interested in buying this as i already have a Gaming PC with a 9800x3d/5070ti and i also have 32gb ram installed. I'm not interested in BC with Xbox games as most games that i own on my XSX library i now own on Steam.

I think MS will support the XSX for many years to come, treating it like the XSS now. The Xbox Magnus, aka the 'big boy', will be aimed at those willing to pay a premium for a superior gaming experience.

 

[Ozriel]

Price dictates the perceived value proposition of an item. I'm not confusing anything.

You don't look at price in lsolation. The saying "you get what you pay for" holds true. A proper value proposition compares price vs performance.

An RTX 5070ti is not 'worse value' than an RTX 5050 simply because it costs significantly more.

 

[Shogmaster]

5080? That would be a really big boy for a console. UE5 games will run like a dream.

WTF is that, a mutated Rottweiler?

 

[Panajev2001a]

You don't look at price in lsolation. The saying "you get what you pay for" holds true. A proper value proposition compares price vs performance.

An RTX 5070ti is not 'worse value' than an RTX 5050 simply because it costs significantly more.

Ah yes, value per dollar is that novel of a concept?!? Does every extra FPS you gain have essentially potentially infinite value/price that can be set for it? Come on…

 

[BlackTron]

Sounds good but this thing will not sell enough for MS to be happy it they have to price it above 1000 and alot of gamers aren't going to drop that kind of money on this especially is Sony can release the PS6 at 700-800.

As for me I'm not really interested in buying this as i already have a Gaming PC with a 9800x3d/5070ti and i also have 32gb ram installed. I'm not interested in BC with Xbox games as most games that i own on my XSX library i now own on Steam.

I really don't think they are expecting or hoping for units sold here. It's for a very niche audience who want one "ultimate box" you can just buy and you're done, who don't care that it can never be upgraded despite costing the same as a gaming PC. Their games are on all platforms now, so there are no stakes in hardware numbers.

It's just a monolith to the Xbox brand to keep the flag waving. Just to have a box that runs Halo better than Playstation, so they can say so.

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

WTF is that, a mutated Rottweiler?

Belgian / flemish giant. They are as big as dogs, and eat a lot too. They are lovely pets and kids love them.

 

[SNG32]

This is what they are banking on. The ppl who can afford it just paid 1500 for a console and the vast majority that cant will be forced to sign up to a streaming service and pay forever.

Or they can just buy a PS6 and call it a day.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why are you confusing 'price' with 'value proposition'?
Those are entirely different things.

 

[FalconPunch]

You don't look at price in lsolation. The saying "you get what you pay for" holds true. A proper value proposition compares price vs performance.

An RTX 5070ti is not 'worse value' than an RTX 5050 simply because it costs significantly more.

Nice strawman. When you can quote me saying that you only look at price in isolation, then you'd have a point.

The thread is discussing the specs of the magnus. The comparison between price and performance is implied by the very nature of this thread. Even in the comment you quoted, the relationship between price and the item is implied.

I'll reiterate my earlier point again. Magnus offers a terrible value proposition.

It's essentially the worst of both worlds between a pc and a console. You don't get the cost efficiencies and optimization efficiencies of console while having the hardware restrictiveness of a console with no viable upgrade path.

You're also saddled the all or nothing risk on consoles where if one component fails, you're shit out of luck if the device isn't under warranty. Meanwhile in the pc space, you can just replace the faulty part.

 

[adamsapple]

Belgian giant. They are as big as dogs, and eat a lot too. They are lovely pets and kids love them.

 

[FF:Enhanced_Reality]

How many Xbox 360 strapped together is this?

Ironically 360.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Belgian giant. They are as big as dogs, and eat a lot too. They are lovely pets and kids love them.

We rescued a Flemish Giant from a humane society and it really was a great pet

Also had a Miniature Pinscher dog at the same time and for years those two were great friends and loved playing with each other

 

[SportsFan581]

That die size is bigger than a rtx5080, on a more advanced node. With probably twice the RAM.

It is a $1000 card so not expecting this below that mark.

? Isn't the RTX 5080 378mm2 vs. the 264mm2 die size listed here for Magnus? I think the 9070xt is like 350mm2. 264mm2 isn't that large for a GPU tbh.

You can't just add the two components together; the two smaller chips will be less expensive to produce than a single larger chip (the whole idea behind chiplet design).

 

[Corporal.Hicks]

We rescued a Flemish Giant from a humane society and it really was a great pet

Also had a Miniature Pinscher dog at the same time and for years those two were great friends and loved playing with each other

They are affectionate animals attached to ther care taker (similar to dogs). We let them do whatever they want, but they always come back wanting to be petted. Some grew up so big that I had to use whell barrow to transport .

 

[Shogmaster]

Belgian / flemish giant. They are as big as dogs, and eat a lot too. They are lovely pets and kids love them.

No rhx. Don't want them giant chompers near my flesh....

 

[Ozriel]

Ah yes, value per dollar is that novel of a concept?!? Does every extra FPS you gain have essentially potentially infinite value/price that can be set for it? Come on…

…which is why you do the assessment based on the performance AND the price.

Not exactly rocket science

Nice strawman. When you can quote me saying that you only look at price in isolation, then you'd have a point.

The thread is discussing the specs of the magnus. The comparison between price and performance is implied by the very nature of this thread. Even in the comment you quoted, the relationship between price and the item is implied.

But neither the OP nor the thread contain data on the price or performance

I'll reiterate my earlier point again. Magnus offers a terrible value proposition.

It's essentially the worst of both worlds between a pc and a console. You don't get the cost efficiencies and optimization efficiencies of console while having the hardware restrictiveness of a console with no viable upgrade path.

You're also saddled the all or nothing risk on consoles where if one component fails, you're shit out of luck if the device isn't under warranty. Meanwhile in the pc space, you can just replace the faulty part.

Ah yes. 'Coding to the metal' strikes again.
For games made specifically with this SKU in mind, you're getting the 'optimization efficiencies' you cite.

Magnus having no upgrade path isn't a dealbreaker since it's specced for power already, and should be quite competitive for the entire gen. Especially if - as you're happy to say - games will be developed with the weaker consoles in mind.

How often does component failure afflict consoles? Faulty consoles can be repaired too.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

You underestimate the amount of people without money buying things they can't really afford in this economy.

It will sell 5M. That's only a small fraction of the xbox fanboys on twitter. Especially with the xbox mindset that next year is the year they're going to be full of (possibly) false hope that "this gen is the gen MS deliver". The same applied to the Series consoles. Much like it-it may not have very long legs, might crash and burn in later years with very few sales once the diehards fans have bought it near launch year or so. It will sell initially though and I suspect blow past 5M.

It will probably sell HALF of that as the best case scenario. I honestly doubt they will even produce 5M of them.

Jesus. The level of delusion some of you have is hilarious.

 

[wolffy66]

Isn't the idea that other makers will step in and make more affordable versions?

 

[Shogmaster]

Isn't the idea that other makers will step in and make more affordable versions?

I think MS version will be cheapest and others will gussy theirs up for more margins for themselves.

 

[adamsapple]

Isn't the idea that other makers will step in and make more affordable versions?

I think the idea being floated is that the others will add stuff on top and make it 'more' expensive.

 

[slrbomber]

Imagine spending 1500 Euros on a console and then not getting any performance benefit out of it compared to a much cheaper PS6. That'd be brutal.

This is exactly whats going to happen. I think it will consistently beat the PS6 in DF tests but thats it. Empirically it will be the same

 

[Magic Carpet]

I think MS version will be cheapest and others will gussy theirs up for more margins for themselves.

Like how Nvidia reference was the smallest and cheapest version. Then other makers bring out the big beefy cards.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Team $1200.

 

[Three]

It will probably sell HALF of that as the best case scenario. I honestly doubt they will even produce 5M of them.

Jesus. The level of delusion some of you have is hilarious.

What's your estimate then? We can come back to this and I will gladly eat crow.

I guess I agree that they might not produce enough in the first year to meet initial demand and it might be prolonged but knowing AMD I don't think their contract is for less than 5M lifetime.

 

[Neo_game]

Imagine spending 1500 Euros on a console and then not getting any performance benefit out of it compared to a much cheaper PS6. That'd be brutal.

Xbox Hybrid is literally PS6 Pro in performance. I think this will be good 30-40% faster. So if PS6 will be 60fps this will run at some at 80fps or 1800P vs 2160P.

IMO this device is actually targeting PC gamers. This will play all your Steam library, GOG, Epic store games etc. It is literally a PC and I won't be surprised if it supports non gaming apps like Microsoft 365, Copilot etc

 

[Baki]

It will get benefits but end results will obviously depend on developers. Console should automatically play the same games with better performance/resolution (if they don't fuck up the tools this time lol).

Except new Xbox is a windows box and will have to deal with games running in windows mode and eating up performance as a result.

 

[Shogmaster]

Like how Nvidia reference was the smallest and cheapest version. Then other makers bring out the big beefy cards.

1000W Magnus from MSI? LOLOL

 

[Rob_27]

So if this supports Steam. Presumably it will work with the Steam Frame...

 

[Magic Carpet]

So if this supports Steam. Presumably it will work with the Steam Frame...

Yep. Just need a usb port to plug in the dongle.
Also, need more news on the Steam Frame. That thing went incognito.

 

[Bojji]

Except new Xbox is a windows box and will have to deal with games running in windows mode and eating up performance as a result.

I doubt it will be retail version of W11. Probably some game oriented build.

 

[Bry0]

Team $1200.

This ballpark makes sense. Some of the price panic in this thread is silly and shows a lack of context for how powerful this will be and how much these parts will actually cost.

 

[Shogmaster]

I doubt it will be retail version of W11. Probably some game oriented build.

, its prolly evolution of what's in XBox Ally X

 

[Baki]

Xbox Hybrid is literally PS6 Pro in performance. I think this will be good 30-40% faster. So if PS6 will be 60fps this will run at some at 80fps or 1800P vs 2160P.

IMO this device is actually targeting PC gamers. This will play all your Steam library, GOG, Epic store games etc. It is literally a PC and I won't be surprised if it supports non gaming apps like Microsoft 365, Copilot etc

I doubt it will be retail version of W11. Probably some game oriented build.

Thats what they're working on, will be a boon for all pc games. However, devs won't be targeting the specific Magnus spec, which is the downside of this PC approach. I'm looking forward to the real world comparison, but I suspect, since Magnus only has a 25% on paper spec boost on PS6, the actual real world performance difference will be small.

 

[Bojji]

Thats what they're working on, will be a boon for all pc games. However, devs won't be targeting the specific Magnus spec, which is the downside of this PC approach. I'm looking forward to the real world comparison, but I suspect, since Magnus only has a 25% on paper spec boost on PS6, the actual real world performance difference will be small.

If it ends up with that much more memory (48GB vs. 30) we will probably see bigger differences with textures in some games.

 

[Baki]

If it ends up with that much more memory (48GB vs. 30) we will probably see bigger differences with textures in some games.

I don't think they're targeting 48GB in the base model. Also doesn't track with going with a 192 bit bus if they're willing to go that big with ram. I think it will be 36GB. Price between 1200-1800. They probably want closer to 1200 but ram will be expensive.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Team $1200.

 

[Bitstream]

Curious to see how this will all pan out. Nextbox coming out a year+ before PS6 might actually be the beginning of truly next gen games starting to be released. But devs might also consider that with the lower install base and upcoming PS6 and shitty handheld, the juice might not be worth the squeeze.

I'd say first party is a different story, but MS is more likely to cancel a cool looking game after showing it off than actually releasing it.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Get the ready.

 

[Bojji]

Get the ready.

 

[FalconPunch]

But neither the OP nor the thread contain data on the price or performance

You're just being a pedant and it's frankly annoying. We know from several previous threads that performance is estimated around a 5080 and from other leaks including Sarah Bond, we know the price ranges from $1000 - $1500.

Ah yes. 'Coding to the metal' strikes again.
For games made specifically with this SKU in mind, you're getting the 'optimization efficiencies' you cite.

No games will be made for this specific sku. It's just a pc and will run windows version of the game with preconfigured launch settings.

Magnus having no upgrade path isn't a dealbreaker since it's specced for power already, and should be quite competitive for the entire gen. Especially if - as you're happy to say - games will be developed with the weaker consoles in mind.

How often does component failure afflict consoles? Faulty consoles can be repaired too.

I'd respond to the rest but like I said, you're now starting to annoy me.

 

[Loxus]

Kinda weird to see people assume Sony is going to save them and keep costs down... if you want a cheaper console you are going to get a lot lower specs on a next gen machine. Pick your poison. Id rather pay more for a beefy ass machine and enjoy most power I could get for the next generation of my favorite hobby. And not in a pc, I already have a high end gaming pc and only use it for simple work tasks. Anyone praying for Sony to spit out a $700 ps6 will not be happy with the end product imo.

Well when MLiD first talked about the PS6 specs, he said it was from a leaked AMD proposal document to Sony.

Which isn't much different from his full specs leak. Just more information added.

It would be funny if both Orion and Canis specs we have so far turn out to be just AMD proposals and not actually the real specs.

 

[midnightAI]

Thats not the reason IMO.

What so many people overlook is that with a console eveything is included in the box to get you gaming, right down to the plug and TV leads. You don't have to think or worry about it, unlike with the PC

My point is, I doubt anyone (well, many) will be spending this amount of money on a console, power matters little of your biggest competitor that is currently trouncing you on the market is selling their next console at half the price you are

 

[Jesb]

it will be an interesting option over a PS6. You don't even need to use it for the Xbox ecosystem system and simply use it as a pc. I assume that PS6 isn't going to go the same route and have the steam and epic store as an option. Those are pretty big selling points for getting one.