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[Moore's Law is Dead] PlayStation 5 Analysis: Built to Develop New Worlds

CJY

Banned
I only just started watching this myself, but Moore's Law is Dead is a dude. Very knowledgeable and unbiased.

Will be interesting to see what he has to say.



EDIT: GEEZUZ, PS lovers watch this video. Xbox lovers BTFO! The real winner: AMD.


Summary:
-Xbox Series X is powerful through brute force

-Neither console will cost as much as people think

-Many leaks but Sony was becoming more and more tight-lipped as we got closer to when they would have to announce something

-No matter what Sony announced it was gonna be designed with a philosophy that's unlike any console we've seen in recent memory

-not going to be an apples to apples comparison like it was last gen

-a lot of hot takes going on about the PlayStation 5 and Xbox now but people have not gone out of their way to remove emotion from their initial gut reactions

-developers actually working on the consoles are happy with the specs they've seen they think it's every bit as impressive as the Xbox series X

-Xbox led with twelve teraflops they know of all the specs that's the one that they have an advantage with

-the customizations in the PlayStation really do make it greater than the sum of its parts
Source 1: when you look at all of its extra capabilities ten teraflops is really impressive
Source 2: went into way more detail: knew a lot about the solid-state drive from the vendor supplying it early he said comparing the SSD between these consoles is apples to oranges

Sony has a 12 channel SSD and that's not just four gigabytes per second the gigabytes per second for how many channels there are is actually pretty low this suggests they're going for massive parallelism and they've been going for a high bandwidth cache-like approach from the start. Sony's goal from the beginning was to have literally something close to a hundred gigabytes of graphics memory that this allows way less CPU resources and other resources to be wasted this is low latency removing as many bottlenecks in a standard system as possible that this is what developers asked Sony to do


-"saw the Xbox announcement and they said virtual memory but then I saw he speed I went oh boy Microsoft knows what Sony's planning and there you want to get ahead of the message they want to announce using virtual memory first so it looks like they can also do that which hey that's good marketing it just really bothers me how many people are falling for that spin"


- "they're [devs] finding that when they run games for the most part they're getting about the same frame times between consoles"

-"people will just disregard it [PS5 superiority] call me a fanboy and its cuz they're fanboys and if you want to be a fanboy and root against companies against evidence good for you I just hope you know more about gaming hardware than the people who built battlefield games because that's the type of people I'm talking to

-playstation 5 doesn't need to use the CPU to ping things as often due to how its organized

-XSX may have an advantage in RayTracing

-10% reduction in [GPU] power consumption doesn't reduce the clock speed by more than a few percent thus suggesting this isn't probably even gonna drop below 2.1 gigahertz even in hard to run games

-how can this run at such a high clock speeds? it's because it's RDNA 2.0 and this isn't some off-the-shelf graphics card that Sony chose they helped AMD design it

-if you're wondering how Sony can get an rDNA card that clocks that fast it's because that's how fast it was designed from the start for Sony and for me it's truly pathetic how many people are clearly letting fanboyism block themselves from the major story: RDNA 2.0 could be Redeon's Pascal moment

-fact of the matter is having faster speed and less cores is more efficient for rendering games. It's more efficient for doing actually just about everything, but games benefit from this the most

-AMD example that I think is incredibly apt, a perfect example is comparing the 10.5 teraflop Vega 56 to the 7.1 teraflop RX 590 hardwareunboxed found that the RX 590 was only 24% slower than the Vega 56 and it's because of the massive core clock speed difference and keep in mind that the Vega 56 has 56% more compute units, double the ROP and a monstrous amount more bandwidth... clock speed really does matter that much in games

-Vega 56, 7870, these are compelling examples of cards with a far larger disparity in teraflops performing pretty close to each other and so when you consider the bandwidth advantage which the xbox definitely has

-[XSX RAM] not really as efficient of a design but bandwidth improvement is there

-worst case scenario you're looking at about a 15% rendering advantage for the Xbox but likely less than 10%

-"I don't think it's [PS5] going to be some blazing hot console I just don't think they would do that but it's something to watch but you shouldn't assume these ridiculous fanboy you know that say "oh for sure it'll overheat"

-they can probably make four Playstations for every three xbox's manufactured and Playstation's buying up more capacity as well so they want to crowd out Xbox and they also want to sell for a decent price point

-"this is about a war not a battle Sony wasn't planning to win the "on paper" battle they were planning to win the console war - that's what they do"

Then there is a lot about cost-cutting measures. That's the best I could do man. Enjoy.
 
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M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I only just started watching this myself, but Moore's Law is Dead is a dude. Very knowledgeable and unbiased.

Will be interesting to see what he has to say.


EDIT: GEEZUZ, PS lovers watch this video. Xbox lovers BTFO! The real winner: AMD.
C.R.I.N.G.E.
 
This guy is an idiot. I'm pretty sure it was this dude that was going on about how 20-Series RTX was going to be obsolete once AMD came out and announced their RT architecture....

...and now we have DX12 Ultimate announced which shows DX12 adopting and standardizing every single hardware feature that Nvidia brought forward with Turing... uniting both Turing/Ampere and RDNA2 GPUs, as well as Series X under a common featureset.. The irony of course being that the 20-Series RTX GPUs are 100% DX12U compliant.... as of 2 years ago... :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Azurro

Banned
Really interesting video, thanks for sharing. It really does seem that I underestimated Sony's design and how much they have been working on removing bottlenecks. I still thoroughly expect the Xbox to have a performance advantage, but it seems the PS5 is much stronger than the specs suggest.
 
This guy is an idiot. I'm pretty sure it was this dude that was going on about how 20-Series RTX was going to be obsolete once AMD came out and announced their RT architecture....

...and now we have DX12 Ultimate announced which shows DX12 adopting and standardizing every single hardware feature that Nvidia brought forward with Turing... uniting both Turing/Ampere and RDNA2 GPUs, as well as Series X under a common featureset.. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
It's the same guy..
 

Humdinger

Member
I appreciate the videos taking a closer look at PS5 hardware. I'm not a tech-savvy guy, so I have to rely on people who can explain it in laymen's terms. Most of Cerny's talk went over my head. I've learned more about the system from videos like this (and those from DF and NXGamer) than I did from the official talk.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CJY
Sonygaf is in desperate times. Fun to watch this madness as it occurs
Sony gaf is just celebrating the one-of-a-kind SSD that is next gen compared to xbox and how it enables games not possible anywhere else 🤷‍♂️

Xbox still has the 18% advantage in teraflops, it's still a nice console. It just won't be as fast as ps5, but still a nice little brute force machine which is plenty capable too.
 
Can anyone summarize what the guy says
Blah blah blah.. listen to me guys. I have contacts.. blah blah blah.. they're telling me the same thing as those other guys blah blah... I'm not going to bring NEW information... I have to protect my sources.. blah blah.. but when those other sources bring their new information.. I'll be here to tell you guys that it's the exact same thing my sources told me... blah blah...
 

CJY

Banned
Can anyone summarize what the guy says


-Xbox Series X is powerful through brute force

-Neither console will cost as much as people think

-Many leaks but Sony was becoming more and more tight-lipped as we got closer to when they would have to announce something

-No matter what Sony announced it was gonna be designed with a philosophy that's unlike any console we've seen in recent memory

-not going to be an apples to apples comparison like it was last gen

-a lot of hot takes going on about the PlayStation 5 and Xbox now but people have not gone out of their way to remove emotion from their initial gut reactions

-developers actually working on the consoles are happy with the specs they've seen they think it's every bit as impressive as the Xbox series X

-Xbox led with twelve teraflops they know of all the specs that's the one that they have an advantage with

-the customizations in the PlayStation really do make it greater than the sum of its parts
Source 1: when you look at all of its extra capabilities ten teraflops is really impressive
Source 2: went into way more detail: knew a lot about the solid-state drive from the vendor supplying it early he said comparing the SSD between these consoles is apples to oranges

Sony has a 12 channel SSD and that's not just four gigabytes per second the gigabytes per second for how many channels there are is actually pretty low this suggests they're going for massive parallelism and they've been going for a high bandwidth cache-like approach from the start. Sony's goal from the beginning was to have literally something close to a hundred gigabytes of graphics memory that this allows way less CPU resources and other resources to be wasted this is low latency removing as many bottlenecks in a standard system as possible that this is what developers asked Sony to do


-"saw the Xbox announcement and they said virtual memory but then I saw he speed I went oh boy Microsoft knows what Sony's planning and there you want to get ahead of the message they want to announce using virtual memory first so it looks like they can also do that which hey that's good marketing it just really bothers me how many people are falling for that spin"


- "they're [devs] finding that when they run games for the most part they're getting about the same frame times between consoles"

-"people will just disregard it [PS5 superiority] call me a fanboy and its cuz they're fanboys and if you want to be a fanboy and root against companies against evidence good for you I just hope you know more about gaming hardware than the people who built battlefield games because that's the type of people I'm talking to

-playstation 5 doesn't need to use the CPU to ping things as often due to how its organized

-XSX may have an advantage in RayTracing

-10% reduction in [GPU] power consumption doesn't reduce the clock speed by more than a few percent thus suggesting this isn't probably even gonna drop below 2.1 gigahertz even in hard to run games

-how can this run at such a high clock speeds? it's because it's RDNA 2.0 and this isn't some off-the-shelf graphics card that Sony chose they helped AMD design it

-if you're wondering how Sony can get an rDNA card that clocks that fast it's because that's how fast it was designed from the start for Sony and for me it's truly pathetic how many people are clearly letting fanboyism block themselves from the major story: RDNA 2.0 could be Redeon's Pascal moment

-fact of the matter is having faster speed and less cores is more efficient for rendering games. It's more efficient for doing actually just about everything, but games benefit from this the most

-AMD example that I think is incredibly apt, a perfect example is comparing the 10.5 teraflop Vega 56 to the 7.1 teraflop RX 590 hardwareunboxed found that the RX 590 was only 24% slower than the Vega 56 and it's because of the massive core clock speed difference and keep in mind that the Vega 56 has 56% more compute units, double the ROP and a monstrous amount more bandwidth... clock speed really does matter that much in games

-Vega 56, 7870, these are compelling examples of cards with a far larger disparity in teraflops performing pretty close to each other and so when you consider the bandwidth advantage which the xbox definitely has

-[XSX RAM] not really as efficient of a design but bandwidth improvement is there

-worst case scenario you're looking at about a 15% rendering advantage for the Xbox but likely less than 10%

-"I don't think it's [PS5] going to be some blazing hot console I just don't think they would do that but it's something to watch but you shouldn't assume these ridiculous fanboy you know that say "oh for sure it'll overheat"

-they can probably make four Playstations for every three xbox's manufactured and Playstation's buying up more capacity as well so they want to crowd out Xbox and they also want to sell for a decent price point

-"this is about a war not a battle Sony wasn't planning to win the "on paper" battle they were planning to win the console war - that's what they do"

Then there is a lot about cost-cutting measures. That's the best I could do man. Enjoy.
 
Last edited:
Sony gaf is just celebrating the one-of-a-kind SSD that is next gen compared to xbox and how it enables games not possible anywhere else 🤷‍♂️

Xbox still has the 18% advantage in teraflops, it's still a nice console. It just won't be as fast as ps5, but still a nice little brute force machine which is plenty capable too.
What games are impossible anywhere else? If it's exclusive we will not be able to say that unless it's a third-party saying they couldn't get it to work on said platform.
 
What games are impossible anywhere else? If it's exclusive we will not be able to say that unless it's a third-party saying they couldn't get it to work on said platform.
With a 125% difference in speed, a whole gen ahead really, it's to expect some level design not possible on lesser machines. Object density/textures/stream time all depend on it.

Our first look might be that spiderman fly-by tech demo, but since those are PS4 last gen assets, that's probably still within reach for XSXs slower capabilities.
 
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With a 125% difference in speed, a whole gen ahead really, it's to expect some level design not possible on lesser machines. Object density/textures/stream time all depend on it.

Our first look might be that spiderman fly-by tech demo, but since those are PS4 last gen assets, that's probably still within reach for XSXs slower capabilities.
So what games? You haven't mentioned anything? This all theory and as of right now there is no proof of it.
 

Entroyp

Member
Great video. I can’t wait to see what the PS5 can do in regards to the SSD. Also seems like developers are not too concerned about the power difference, but let’s see how their games turn out.

I’ve been seeing a lot of cynicism around the PS5 SSD around here. I wonder if those users will eat crow later in the year.
 
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With a 125% difference in speed, a whole gen ahead really, it's to expect some level design not possible on lesser machines. Object density/textures/stream time all depend on it.

Our first look might be that spiderman fly-by tech demo, but since those are PS4 last gen assets, that's probably still within reach for XSXs slower capabilities.
It's a 125% difference in speed at the drive itself, but you have no idea how Sony will parse data, how efficient or capable Sony's compression methods are or how the memory bus and bandwidth subsystems will interact with it to deliver that theoretical 125% throughput.

Microsoft may have a slower drive but a clearer path to practical performance given their methods of parsing, their methods of compression, given their bandwidth advantage, given their wider bus.

You guys are really bad at making substantive debates.
 

CJY

Banned
It's a 125% difference in speed at the drive itself, but you have no idea how Sony will parse data, how efficient or capable Sony's compression methods are or how the memory bus and bandwidth subsystems will interact with it to deliver that theoretical 125% throughput.

Microsoft may have a slower drive but a clearer path to practical performance given their methods of parsing, their methods of compression, given their bandwidth advantage, given their wider bus.

You guys are really bad at making substantive debates.
Yeah OK. MS's fake virtual RAM is better than Sony's. Keep telling yourself that. Did you even watch the video or read the summary?
 
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