eastwood333
Banned
Low IQ is a better description.
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[Moore's Law is Dead] PlayStation 5 Analysis: Built to Develop New Worlds
- Thread starter CJY
- Start date
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
my post caused you to commit suicide?
Piku_Ringo
Banned
Nah, it's that I know better to expect things to get much worse with flunkies on both sides, once both plastic boxes come out and the game comparisions are made.
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too much eslim
Member
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
Not bottlenecks when it comes to gpu cpu or ram, the question is about bottlenecks for the ssd. Nearly half of the presentation sony did was about that. If series x did remove all bottlenecks it should be at least 50 times faster than an hdd.
Right now we've seen series x loading vary between 4x to 5x depending on title. Sony showed 10x faster loading for spiderman, with under 1 second loading, but they seem to be claiming their solution moves data 100x as fast as hdds. Does that mean a game with 60 second loading might load in under one second too? We need to see more game demos to find out.
Fulcizombie
Banned
Why would the SXS have any bottlenecks on the SSD, it has an extremely fast SSD that accompanies the rest of its components nicely. If a game with 60 seconds loading on a Hdd loads in 1 second on the ps5 it will load in 2-3 seconds on the XSX, not exactly a bottleneck.
The XSX SSD is 50 times faster than an HDD. It is half the speed of the ps5 SSD, the numbers have been announced for both.
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Insane Metal
Member
I heard it from someone else. Guess at least that part is true then.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
Yes but sony said that a sata ssd is only 2x as fast as an hdd in practice despite being 10x in specs. They said there are a lot of bottlenecks in the i/o keeping the full potential of ssds from being realized. We saw a game with about 45 seconds load in like 9 seconds on xbox series x, iirc. Perhaps it'd load in 4.5 seconds on ps5, or perhaps it'd load in under one second. We'd need to see more game demos to find out.
too much eslim
Member
Well his track record isn't good. He made up a lot of stuff.
Fulcizombie
Banned
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Or it is some copy pasta.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
This guy gets so many things wrong, he is biased for sony, no point in wasting your time on him.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
Not everything. A 5GB/s nvme ssd is near the ps5's speed yet it can be seen no faster than a sata ssd in practice. And a sata ssd is only a few times faster than an hdd.
The claim of the ps5 is that it is 100 times as fast as an hdd because of custom i/o. Perhaps the series x is in the same ballpark. But that would depend on how advanced their custom i/o is. Perhaps they removed all the bottlenecks that keep ssds from living up to their potential, but perhaps not all. The xbox has Sampler Feedback Streaming which should help significantly, assuming it's custom stuff and not part of rdna2.
edit:
depends on task or game I imagine.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Yep, once you go SSD you never go back
You couldn't pay me to switch back to platter drives, ever!
Fulcizombie
Banned
Going by that logic nobody can really tell how fast the ps5 SSD will really be (and the spider man demo was in a completely controlled environment while MS was quite open to the press letting them test the console and everything) . I am going by what both companies have provided , without taking into account secret sauces, even going in a worst case scenario, a game loading in 1 second in one console and let’s entertain your theory, in 10 seconds in another console is not a bottleneck in the hardware. The bottom line is that the XSX has an SSD that will accommodate the rest of its components nicely, the ps5 seems to have an SSD far better than every other component of the console. As far as the crazy theories we have been reading about what an SSD can do, you can visit serious tech sites and see how they judge such claims.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
What I've heard is that since pc nvme drives are not much faster than pc sata drives that is what we should expect. But this ignores the fact that ps5 is unconstrained by the pc's bottlenecks. If the ps5 had a sata drive it'd only be like 10x faster.
Fulcizombie
Banned
Look I am not an expert in how the ps5 SSD will work, Sony has a history of outrageous claims (remember the time when the ps3 would have multiple cell chips that would destroy everything including the pc ?). I can guarantee that and you can keep this post and laugh at me if I am proven wrong : the ps5 will not have its OS allocated on the SSD and it won’t produce bigger and more detailed worlds because of the SSD. You can bookmark this and make fun of me if I am proven wrong. Maybe the loading times will be amazing but they will be very good on the XSX too.
mekes
Member
So the included nvme drive is 1tb (931gb ish) minus the 100gb for virtual ram, a few gb for the OS and we are left with the 825gb for user storage. I haven’t read the thread, I’m just a few minutes into the video so forgive me if it’s a point that has been beaten to death already. Interesting vid so far.
The Infectious Paradox
Gold Member
Bro, this dude's face is more square than the XseX
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SportsFan581
Member
Sony showed a PS5 port of Spiderman (altered to utilize the new SSD), MS has shown the loading of an existing game that is NOT ported or optimized for the SSD (no virtual ram or fast loading code of any kind), the improvement was based only on the raw speeds of the SSD. Big difference. With that said, I doubt MS's solution is as bespoke, simply because they are trying to unify development tools around DX12U.
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
Cerny suggested developers don't need to optimize around the new ssd to benefit from it. We don't know if that was a direct port of spiderman with little to no modifications or if it is heavily modified. We need to see more demos to find out.
Some have speculated that properly optimized ps5 games could be 100 times faster loading. But that remains to be seen.
I agree. I think for multiplatform games, the loading screen will be the ONLY difference the SSDs will provide. That’s it.
Is this confirmed? Where? Did Sony say that the user can use 925GB?
I think 825GB is the total capacity of the Storage and then OS+system reserved storage needs to be substracted from that. I don’t know any company that wouldn’t always tell us the full RAW capacity of the storage.
Piku_Ringo
Banned
this fucking guy, meng
DynamiteCop!
Banned
This is pretty much my thoughts on how all of this is going to play out.
(not to scale)
We were here
|----| <---- PS4/XBO
There was a hard line in I/O that simply prohibited certain kind of experiences.
We are now here with SSD technology
|----|-----------SeriesX----PS5-----------| <------------ This line symbolizes the next paradigm shift in game development.
The bracket with the SeriesX and PS5 contains the kind of expected development experiences that can be delivered from these SSD's. Both are contained within the scope of these constraints and both can do anything within these constraints. Neither elapses the other to such a degree as to escape these constraints and leave the other behind; or be able to do things the other would be incapable of.
|----|-----------SeriesX----PS5-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------Future I/O--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
The PS5's SSD is faster undoubtedly, considerably, but that doesn't for a second mean it can deliver something broad enough to cripple the SeriesX's I/O and leave it behind, it's simply not that big of a jump. They're both fast enough to be able to do anything in this same space, if the PS5 could load in something in its entirety like a game world; the X might not be able to in the same way. However it could load in enough data to push the barrier of said world so far outside of our ability to perceive any kind of boundary and stream in the rest that they would appear exactly the same to the end user.
This is why I have said the PS5's SSD while quite amazing is undoubtedly going to end up as a massive diminished return, it would require double digit multipliers of bandwidth for the X to be incapable, not a single multiplier uptick.
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Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Banned
Right now that seems sensible. But we'll have to see 3rd party games running on both to see how narrow or how big the difference is. It could be less than 2x or it could be more
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Cerny said if was expensive to cool down a GPU with such a high clock rate.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
Sony: We've created a well balanced, powerful and fast machine to play our exclusives
Microsoft: We've listened and made the worlds most powerful gaming machine.
Gamers:
Fanboys on both sides:
I just don't get it? We haven't had a gen of two super promising consoles since the PS2/Dreamcast days.
How can anyone be pissed off about either console?
Microsoft: We've listened and made the worlds most powerful gaming machine.
Gamers:
Fanboys on both sides:
I just don't get it? We haven't had a gen of two super promising consoles since the PS2/Dreamcast days.
How can anyone be pissed off about either console?
DynamiteCop!
Banned
This is actually a really good point, both are extremely competent systems.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
It depends what you are doing, compared to a laptop SSD just the access times prevent the SATA drive to just "seek" its data all the time, so in some situations it's much much more than 10X - case in point, if you move a lot of small files (development work, ROMs folders, etc.) a cheap SSD will be about as fast as an HDD at burst speed.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
Not just that, but both are extremely competent systems, with Microsoft coming off of the back of their worst generation since entering the industry.
Both companies going all out. Exclusives, Gamepass/PSnow and 3rd parties not being hampered by a low-power console?
This gen Is going to be the best in decades!
Piku_Ringo
Banned
Now why would such a thing matter in an online war over which preferred piece of plastic game box is the bestest and strongest in all the universes?
mekes
Member
It is not confirmed, not at all. It is just something that I wondered about as the math seems to add up in regards to the size of the drive. 825gb raw just seemed quite the odd number, then when the information in the video mentions that 100gb is reserved for ram. 9/10 times I would agree with what you have said, but a tiny part of me wonders what if - given there are reports out there of devs stating Sony have held important information back regarding the full power of the machine.
SportsFan581
Member
In order to to benefit from the speed difference in a meaningful way, the code would need to be designed with that speed in mind. A last gen game is likely built to stream only 15 or 20mbps, the SSD doesn't help much there. Sure data might load in 1/100th of a second, but still only 15 or 20mb was pulled since that's all the game was looking for. A game built for the PSV will be looking to transfer a lot more data over the same time period (likewise for the XSX).
sonomamashine
Member
By how much, a second ?
Lots of wrong things as you'd expect from a Moore's law is dead video, for instance claiming that XSX really has a 384-bit bus is almost definitely wrong.
The binary size has to be 12 x 512Gbit = 768GB. Sony is just using deceptively using decimal size to make it sound bigger.
The binary size has to be 12 x 512Gbit = 768GB. Sony is just using deceptively using decimal size to make it sound bigger.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Yep, once you go SSD you never go back
Man, I've been looking for you. I really miss your essays on that speculation thread
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Man, I've been looking for you. I really miss your essays on that speculation thread
The Next-Gen speculation thread? xD, there's too many threads now, I have a hard time keeping up. We feared this would happen once both systems put their cards on the table
Yeah I have zero idea where he got the 384-bit bus idea from. Just because the X was 384-bit bus didn't guarantee the XSX would be. He even says in the video that a bigger die means more costs, which is true.
So why he thought MS would go with 320-bit just to "make it work" as if they did it as a technical failure of a compromise instead of planning 320-bit from the start as a design compromise between power and price, well I don't know what they were thinking there xD.
I usually agree with a lot of their console-related speculation and insight but there were quite a few whoopsie takes in that video IMO. Dunno, maybe it's to do with the timing and they need more time and info to see some things in better perspective.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
The Next-Gen speculation thread? xD, there's too many threads now, I have a hard time keeping up. We feared this would happen once both systems put their cards on the table
Man, I'm now like 6 hours trying to reach the final page, still 4 pages to go and it was like 10-12 pages to climb and reply to others. Woke up with staggering 67+ notifications.
Stay safe out there!
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Man, I'm now like 6 hours trying to reach the final page, still 4 pages to go and it was like 10-12 pages to climb and reply to others. Woke up with a staggering 67+ notifications.
N O P E . F that, I cannot deal with that much of a reply load
Good luck with that dude, break the load up into smaller chunks if need be!