Because they want YOU to make the first move and come up with some incredible idea that will transform the night into a magic filled evening. When they see you have no intention of doing so they'll bail.
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Mormon/Ex-Mormon Thread of 3 hour blocks and salvation flowcharts
- Thread starter ronito
- Start date
Because they want YOU to make the first move and come up with some incredible idea that will transform the night into a magic filled evening. When they see you have no intention of doing so they'll bail.
Bornstellar
Member
Because they want YOU to make the first move and come up with some incredible idea that will transform the night into a magic filled evening. When they see you have no intention of doing so they'll bail.
This. They already did the work of initiating contact. It's on you to make it meaningful.
I cannot make contact with what is not there. Maybe if they stuck around for more than five minutes . . .
Be like Sonic. Gotta go fast.
Haven't been active in a decade but the other night, three Mormons from the local singles ward knocked on my door. One was a member of the bishopric, the other two a young married couple. Very nice, chatted for a bit.
My question is, how do they know where I live? Since I last went to church I have:
- moved from Calgary to Toronto (across the country)
- moved to the USA
- moved from a condo here into the house I live in now
How do they track people?
My question is, how do they know where I live? Since I last went to church I have:
- moved from Calgary to Toronto (across the country)
- moved to the USA
- moved from a condo here into the house I live in now
How do they track people?
ronitoswife
Neo Member
Everybody knows that there's a business arm of the church. Whatever. They do stuff.
I don't know about that. Most mormons I know are pretty clueless to the fact that the church has a business side to it. I remember mentioning some things to my mom once and she was surprised and very upset by it. Of course, she's in her own little world now, but it was clear that the business side of the church was a surprise. Other people have thought I was just making it up or that I was just reading some anti mormon stuff. The church puts the focus so much on it's doctrine that many members just over look it and not think ore care about it. Personally, it bothers me. The church is supposed to be a church, not a business.
SillyEskimo
Member
Haven't been active in a decade but the other night, three Mormons from the local singles ward knocked on my door. One was a member of the bishopric, the other two a young married couple. Very nice, chatted for a bit.
My question is, how do they know where I live? Since I last went to church I have:
- moved from Calgary to Toronto (across the country)
- moved to the USA
- moved from a condo here into the house I live in now
How do they track people?
As long as your name is associated with the church you are technically a member. The church keeps track of your location at all times. When you relocate, the closest ward in your area gets you put on their inactive list and they are suppossed to reach out.
Until you have your name officially removed from the records, you are still a Mormon for all intents and purposes to the church. You are used in their statistics (we have 14 million members!) and your name is on someone's visiting teaching worklist as an inactive member.
Follow these directions and it is a very painless process.
http://www.exmormon.org/remove.htm
The history of trying to get your name officially removed from the Mormon records is rather fascinating. It is one of the dark spots that help detractors attach the "cult" description to Mormons, and quite frankly their reluctance to allow people to leave the religion and vindictive practices did the LDS church no favors. Long story short; they lost a lawsuit and a lot of money so they've been forced to change their practices over the years. Even God's only true church has to follow the exact same laws in the United States as all the other religious organizations.
I moved to a new house recently and the missionaries were at my doorstep within two weeks. It was sheer coincidence though. I live in a rich white neighborhood so they'll be making regular rounds here, I know it. I've never seen a missionary in the hood, that's for damn sure. Neither of our wards had a minority in them.
I simply told them I was an excommunicated former Mormon. Their jaws hit the floor and they were absolutely dumbfounded at what to say or do. I simply basked in the awkward silence. I say this every time and get the exact same reaction without fail. Quickly, one of the squeeked out a "Sorry? Hey, it's not the end of the world!". I told him he needs to study the actual Mormon theology regarding excommunication to see how darkly ironic his choice of words were. They walked away very quickly but I'm sure they both did some reading that night!
Dear Journal,
Met a Son of Perdition today. I should have known because the house just "felt wrong" from the beginning...
Hey hey hey. I'm not gonna go so far as to call the lady a child of perdition, but I definitely had this one time on my mission where we'd been teaching a woman and came to her house for a follow up and things were feeling HECKA wrong there.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, Fathead are you still good for that ride? I just got a call confirming I will need to go down to IF for 2 hours in the near future, so I wanted to know if I could still fall back on your offer if I needed it.
Bornstellar
Member
I moved to a new house recently and the missionaries were at my doorstep within two weeks. It was sheer coincidence though. I live in a rich white neighborhood so they'll be making regular rounds here, I know it. I've never seen a missionary in the hood, that's for damn sure. Neither of our wards had a minority in them.
Ironic that you would think that since I spent the majority of my mission teaching in very poor parts of my areas.
SillyEskimo
Member
Ironic that you would think that since I spent the majority of my mission teaching in very poor parts of my areas.
I've heard all sorts of amazing stories about teaching in poor parts of areas. I'm not taking that away from you. I believe you. However, as I stated above, I just never saw a Mormon in my ward that was a shade darker than eggshell, and I live in a diverse area. Judging by the 500+ friends that each of my Mormon friends on Facebook have without a. single. minority. amoung them, I can't help but notice a trend. (Seriously, I broused them. That is a crazy! I don't even know how that is possible.)
Now, I'm not going to jump into a "The LDS church is rascist" post, but you would have to be in some serious denial not to notice a lack of not just minorities, but poor people in general within the LDS church. Why not? Because they are not recruited. Because 18yr old white people are more comfortable talking to other white people that share a virtually identical socio economic background. I think every missionary takes the casual stroll through the hood once in awhile just to go through the motions, but for serious recruitment? These areas are rich with stories for my missionary friends, but not for conversions. They never spent meaningful time there and I don't blame them one bit. There are other reason no poors are around, but you absolutely have to see the trend. Seriously, you just have to. I put forth some theories, why do you think the LDS Church here in the US is lacking rascial diversity and virtually no members in poverty?
I don't know about that. Most mormons I know are pretty clueless to the fact that the church has a business side to it. I remember mentioning some things to my mom once and she was surprised and very upset by it. Of course, she's in her own little world now, but it was clear that the business side of the church was a surprise. Other people have thought I was just making it up or that I was just reading some anti mormon stuff. The church puts the focus so much on it's doctrine that many members just over look it and not think ore care about it. Personally, it bothers me. The church is supposed to be a church, not a business.
So I'm guessing these people don't watch General Conference often, right? The business dealings get mentioned there from time to time. President Hinckley was very candid about the church's business dealings.
Hey hey hey. I'm not gonna go so far as to call the lady a child of perdition, but I definitely had this one time on my mission where we'd been teaching a woman and came to her house for a follow up and things were feeling HECKA wrong there.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, Fathead are you still good for that ride? I just got a call confirming I will need to go down to IF for 2 hours in the near future, so I wanted to know if I could still fall back on your offer if I needed it.
That reminds me of a friend that said he dusted feet at someone while on his mission. I audibly gasped when he told me, because that was just something I was taught you never did. Have you guys done it?
That reminds me of a friend that said he dusted feet at someone while on his mission. I audibly gasped when he told me, because that was just something I was taught you never did. Have you guys done it?
Holy crap. You SHOULD NOT do that unless it's clearer than the sun in the sky that the Spirit has directed you to do so. I'd hate to do that, I can't believe anybody would want to do so, and if I had done it, it would be such a deeply sacred moment that I wouldn't want to talk about it later.
So I'm guessing these people don't watch General Conference often, right? The business dealings get mentioned there from time to time. President Hinckley was very candid about the church's business dealings.
LOL dude, conference for my wife's family was bigger than the super bowl. And while they might discuss the business arms from time to time they're not saying "We own a hunting preserve, a large stake in Burger king etc"
Holy crap. You SHOULD NOT do that unless it's clearer than the sun in the sky that the Spirit has directed you to do so. I'd hate to do that, I can't believe anybody would want to do so, and if I had done it, it would be such a deeply sacred moment that I wouldn't want to talk about it later.
Cool, he acted like it was no biggie and I was like "WTF DUDE?!!" Still bothers me to this day.
Cool, he acted like it was no biggie and I was like "WTF DUDE?!!" Still bothers me to this day.
Gross. That's someone who doesn't have an eternal perspective. I'm to the point now where I even have a hard time harboring bad feelings towards anybody because I know things would be different if we could just both see beyond this mortal probation.
That reminds me of a friend that said he dusted feet at someone while on his mission. I audibly gasped when he told me, because that was just something I was taught you never did. Have you guys done it?
Depends on which kind of dusting of the feet we're talking here. I've never done the whole formal thing, but I did get angry enough to kick the dust of an extremely, incredibly, unbelievably rude person's doorstep off my feet (sort of. More like I kicked his hovel hoping it would collapse and dust came off my shoe.) I wasn't told until much later that one should not. Like, people in that area would say "I dust my feet of you" as an insult and I didn't know what it meant and thought it was a cultural thing.
Whatever the case, though, I didn't dust my feet of the person whose home felt wrong to us. She seemed like a nice woman and I had nothing tangible against her. But you could not pay me money to set foot in that house again. You could not point a gun at me and get me there. That place is heeby-jeeby central.
I wouldn't call it casting a curse. I mean, I suppose you could call it that, but that's not really the way I've seen it. Normally discussion of the New Testamenty stuff is discouraged, like casting out demons or dusting of feet, but I still wouldn't call it a curse. Like all Church things its accompanied by various legends of general authorities doing it, but as far as I can tell, it's just a high level insult lowly missionaries shouldn't be engaging in. Heck, even Jesus the Christ says rank and file missionaries shouldn't do it, but avoids going into detail about what it means.
Hey hey hey. I'm not gonna go so far as to call the lady a child of perdition, but I definitely had this one time on my mission where we'd been teaching a woman and came to her house for a follow up and things were feeling HECKA wrong there.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, Fathead are you still good for that ride? I just got a call confirming I will need to go down to IF for 2 hours in the near future, so I wanted to know if I could still fall back on your offer if I needed it.
Pm some dates and if I can schedule it then sure.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I think the dusting thing is not meant to be taken literally.
Regardless, we did it once on the mission after dealing with a particularly terrible contact. I doubt it will carry any weight at the last day. If capricious missionaries are able to condemn unwitting people who reject their message by clicking their feet, then we are pretty much all screwed.
Regardless, we did it once on the mission after dealing with a particularly terrible contact. I doubt it will carry any weight at the last day. If capricious missionaries are able to condemn unwitting people who reject their message by clicking their feet, then we are pretty much all screwed.
Yeah I HATED that subreddit and was very vocal about it. I always called the "The bastion of places to not discuss being mormon." Ironic that he set up an LDS subreddit and he went the "Satan's plan" route with it. It was terrible and he really doesn't get that the things you create on internet community sites aren't yours. They're the internets. I've had tons of threads I've created go sideways and places I didn't want it to. But that's fine. It wasn't really "MY" thread. He just picked up his ball and went home. That's terrible. Because it could've been a good place for mormons to discuss their issues. Instead they went with the whole "I'm mormon. You're mormon too? Let's talk about how awesome it is to be mormon!" route.So smacktaix just obliterated r/lds
That guy was a douche. He was all the worst parts of mormonism concentrated into a single being.
In the meltdown thread I remember one of the mods saying he was proud of running the best Mormon community on the internet and if that meant they had to delete most of what was posted so be it. I wanted to point him to this thread and be like "Nah man, we got you beat." I love you guys. Nohomo. Well sorta.
Oh I'm glad this got bumped because this whole Manti T'eo thing is embarrassing. The family engaged in Bible study via text? I know, I know, I'm judging but, I mean, c'mon.
Come on man, you KNOW people like this. I'd dare say you know many people like this.
I wonder if smacktaix dusted his feet off at reddit.
It does bother me a bit because it showed people, even active mormons dealing with real issues instead of folding it up into what Mcconkie said once upon a time.
It could have been a place for a mormon woman to ask what she should think about her husband dealing with pornography, or a place for teenager dealing with shame issues regarding masturbation. I have never been more alone then when I was a mormon teenager, it could have been a great place to soften the sharp edge of mormon rhetoric.
It does bother me a bit because it showed people, even active mormons dealing with real issues instead of folding it up into what Mcconkie said once upon a time.
It could have been a place for a mormon woman to ask what she should think about her husband dealing with pornography, or a place for teenager dealing with shame issues regarding masturbation. I have never been more alone then when I was a mormon teenager, it could have been a great place to soften the sharp edge of mormon rhetoric.
In the meltdown thread I remember one of the mods saying he was proud of running the best Mormon community on the internet and if that meant they had to delete most of what was posted so be it. I wanted to point him to this thread and be like "Nah man, we got you beat." I love you guys. Nohomo. Well sorta.
I have 18 year old roommates. One of the most entertaining parts of any of my days is saying homoerotic things to them and watching them get sooooo upset. It'll teach 'em to be nice to the probably gay guy on their missions.
My motives are not noble and I readily confess that acting gay as a means of getting a ruse is unduly offensive to actually gay people, and that this makes me an insensitive jerk.
Come on man, you KNOW people like this. I'd dare say you know many people like this.
Via TEXT? I dunno man, I just don't know. I mean, taking aside for a moment how crazy it sounds the lengths that everyone in that story went to to never meet this girl, I'm an old fashioned guy and sitting in a room with someone is the only way to have a spiritual discussion for me.
Can you imagine a future in which missionaries become spam-bots and instead of going door-to-door
which I still consider the lowest and least effective means of proselyting
I just . . . some things ought to be done face to face.
That's why I was so aggrevated by the whole thing. More than once I got "Why are you even here?" responses when I started complaining about the subreddit. And really it was because it could've been something that could've benefitted everyone. Instead it was wasted on bubble gum seminary answers and vanilla posts. One of the big problems that the church has online is this "you're either 100% with us or you're against us." thing. People need places to talk, and many times people, like yours truly aren't part of the church anymore but they have friends and family that are and know what you're dealing with. I know it will not be popular or fair here but it's a lot the same complaints that I had against the church. It could be SO good and so much is wasted on petty stuff. It's a real shame. Unsurprising, but a shame.I wonder if smacktaix dusted his feet off at reddit.
It does bother me a bit because it showed people, even active mormons dealing with real issues instead of folding it up into what Mcconkie said once upon a time.
It could have been a place for a mormon woman to ask what she should think about her husband dealing with pornography, or a place for teenager dealing with shame issues regarding masturbation. I have never been more alone then when I was a mormon teenager, it could have been a great place to soften the sharp edge of mormon rhetoric.
I thought what we had was real!!I have 18 year old roommates. One of the most entertaining parts of any of my days is saying homoerotic things to them and watching them get sooooo upset. It'll teach 'em to be nice to the probably gay guy on their missions.My motives are not noble and I readily confess that acting gay as a means of getting a ruse is unduly offensive to actually gay people, and that this makes me an insensitive jerk.
ronitoswife
Neo Member
So I'm guessing these people don't watch General Conference often, right? The business dealings get mentioned there from time to time. President Hinckley was very candid about the church's business dealings.
you're welcome to assume what you want. But yes, the majority of my family and friends watch conference. It's a really big deal to them. But they're there with pencil and pad in hand to listen to the GA's. The emphasis is on listening to the prophet, it's not a staff meeting so i'm not surprised that part gets overlooked. Just because the church throws out 30 seconds worth of numbers doesn't mean everyone will pick up on the fact that the church has outside business operations. A lot of people still believe that the church is funded solely by tithing and fast offerings, which clearly is not the case.
Step up your game and start using "no hetero" instead.I love you guys. Nohomo.
I thought what we had was real!!
Nope. But it was special.
So this is making the rounds around reddit. I'm HIGHLY skeptical. There's a whole process for getting kicked out of a college. And just by passing it would be an immense lawsuit. BYU even (H and I) are way smarter than this. I'm just waiting for this to be confirmed as a lie.
http://imgur.com/gallery/pazjiRv
http://imgur.com/gallery/pazjiRv
Laurentius
Member
So this is making the rounds around reddit. I'm HIGHLY skeptical. There's a whole process for getting kicked out of a college. And just by passing it would be an immense lawsuit. BYU even (H and I) are way smarter than this. I'm just waiting for this to be confirmed as a lie.
http://imgur.com/gallery/pazjiRv
I'm feeling lazy tonight, anybody care to do a tl;dr for it?
I'm feeling lazy tonight, anybody care to do a tl;dr for it?
Says he had a breakdown with the Bishop and Stake Pres,due to an extreme feaar of large groups and their questioning his church attendance, saying he would be okay if they expelled him, then was kicked out of school immediately with no job or place to live (at BYU- Hawaii). Now he is homeless.
So this is making the rounds around reddit. I'm HIGHLY skeptical. There's a whole process for getting kicked out of a college. And just by passing it would be an immense lawsuit. BYU even (H and I) are way smarter than this. I'm just waiting for this to be confirmed as a lie.
http://imgur.com/gallery/pazjiRv
Yeaaaah, as a currently enrolled BYUI student, it sounds fishy to me. I mean, all manner of things are listed as "DON'T DO THIS OR YOU WILL BE EXPELLED" like going into the tunnels, but that's partially just to keep you in line. Like, the school can kick you out for not going to classes, but it's my experience that they always sit you down and try and talk to you, first.
Granted, not going to Church without a reason is against school policy for members, so I mean, there's at least an air of plausibility.
This is, incidentally, how the Mission functioned for me. You don't get sent home unless you either want to go, or messed up something fierce. Like, at least for me the Church policy du jour is to expend all methods of keeping you onboard first.
Laurentius
Member
Says he had a breakdown with the Bishop and Stake Pres,due to an extreme feaar of large groups and their questioning his church attendance, saying he would be okay if they expelled him, then was kicked out of school immediately with no job or place to live (at BYU- Hawaii). Now he is homeless.
Thanks for the tl;dr. Hm...yeah, does sound a bit suspicious.
This is, incidentally, how the Mission functioned for me. You don't get sent home unless you either want to go, or messed up something fierce. Like, at least for me the Church policy du jour is to expend all methods of keeping you onboard first.
Yeah, I can't speak for BYU, but it definitely was like that on my mission as well. There was a handful of missionaries that got sent home at one point, but it was the last thing the mission president wanted to do, honestly. It was always seen as a last resort.
This. This. THIS!!There is no way he got thrown to the cold without at least a weeks notice. There is too much paperwork and documentation to be done, just to cover liability. The church might be many things, but that stupid about exposing itself to litigation is not one of them.
It's funny that on exmormon sites everyone's like "So typical of the church!" I'm like "You haven't paid attention at all."
ronitoswife
Neo Member
So this is making the rounds around reddit. I'm HIGHLY skeptical. There's a whole process for getting kicked out of a college. And just by passing it would be an immense lawsuit. BYU even (H and I) are way smarter than this. I'm just waiting for this to be confirmed as a lie.
http://imgur.com/gallery/pazjiRv
I can't help but feel like we're missing some information. IF this is real there has to be more to the story than that. I mean, even landlords are required to give you 60 days to find a new home. I just can't help but think we're not getting the whole story( if it were real, I'm having a hard time being convinced). It just doesn't make sense to me. The church just isn't that stupid to leave the door wide open for easy lawsuits against them.
I'd like to note that, at least AT BYU (I really am skeptical about a Bishop or Stake President being able to throw you out of school, since in my last stake we had this thing called the ARP, or Addiction Recovery Program which was meant obviously to help people get over stuff like porn addictions, etc. Unless you break the school honor code in a big way, the only way the clergy can really interfere with your attending school is by refusing to sign your ecclesiastical endorsement, which would again require you to be breaking the school's honor code. The honor code is many things, but like I said before, the idea is always to warn before punishing, except in the Testing Center (or so I hear).) EVERY SYLLABUS has a little mark at the bottom telling you to come forward about any special needs you have because of such and such law so that the staff can accommodate you.
Every class does this. Be it the tiny group classes or the massive general courses, it should've come up for this guy in school.
Which means that if you have a problem being around people, you were warned before hand to tell the School, at the very least.
I mean, it isn't that there aren't bishops and stake presidents out there who are jerks. It's just that something in this story doesn't add up.
And if I may take a moment to be an uncaring, unfeeling jerk toward this person, it's kind of annoying to say "I don't care if you expel me" and then cry to the internet when you get expelled. I understand, again, that there's more to the story than this, the person may have special needs, etc, and am fully willing to recant this point, but if it were just a regular guy who said that and then got tossed out, and then cried about, I don't know that I'd feel much.
Every class does this. Be it the tiny group classes or the massive general courses, it should've come up for this guy in school.
Which means that if you have a problem being around people, you were warned before hand to tell the School, at the very least.
I mean, it isn't that there aren't bishops and stake presidents out there who are jerks. It's just that something in this story doesn't add up.
And if I may take a moment to be an uncaring, unfeeling jerk toward this person, it's kind of annoying to say "I don't care if you expel me" and then cry to the internet when you get expelled. I understand, again, that there's more to the story than this, the person may have special needs, etc, and am fully willing to recant this point, but if it were just a regular guy who said that and then got tossed out, and then cried about, I don't know that I'd feel much.
This. This. THIS!!
It's funny that on exmormon sites everyone's like "So typical of the church!" I'm like "You haven't paid attention at all."
For this to be true as stated on the linked page, I would have to believe one of the following:
1. The church has a schooling agreement with every student that is so ironclad in the church's favor that they can immediately expel a student and deprive them of living quarters with no warning and be completely immune to lawsuit. (Somehow I doubt that not one student at a church run school has ever seen this clause and complained about it before).
2. BYU-Hawaii is run by incredibly stupid people and their lawyers are even dumber. Somehow they decided to play games with someone's future and didn't think of the consequences at all. (Somehow, no matter how much these jobs may be the Good Ol' Boys club, I doubt they are dumb enough to make that mistake).
3. This course of events took place a while ago, and the young man failed to check his email, regular mail, or answer his phone for enough time for the paperwork to expel him to be completed. (completely ridiculous IMO)
None of it adds up. At all.
I've tried to do some detectivery but yielded nothing so far.
What I find strange is that he put a picture of himself out there asking for help. Then didn't put his email or anything on it. Why bother? And it was posted by his friend? And there's a girl saying she's his fiance or something?
I'm like give us a ward or a name or something. I have friends in Hawaii they could check it out and help him if necessary (well that'd be if they were so damned stuck up). But like I said I'm just waiting to hear that his was as true as Te'o's girlfriend.
I've tried to do some detectivery but yielded nothing so far.
What I find strange is that he put a picture of himself out there asking for help. Then didn't put his email or anything on it. Why bother? And it was posted by his friend? And there's a girl saying she's his fiance or something?
I'm like give us a ward or a name or something. I have friends in Hawaii they could check it out and help him if necessary (well that'd be if they were so damned stuck up). But like I said I'm just waiting to hear that his was as true as Te'o's girlfriend.
This is either a hoaxer trying to do God knows what, or someone who got expelled (and certainly knew what was coming) and was too afraid to tell mommy and daddy.
You know what I bet happened is the guy had some serious infraction that he had confessed to the bishop and then stopped going to church (which might have actually been due to anxiety) and the bishop was probably like "dude, you need to go church if you want to repent." and the guy had his flip out. I agree dude probably doesn't wanna tell mommy and daddy. But it'll blow up in his face soon enough.
You know what I bet happened is the guy had some serious infraction that he had confessed to the bishop and then stopped going to church (which might have actually been due to anxiety) and the bishop was probably like "dude, you need to go church if you want to repent." and the guy had his flip out. I agree dude probably doesn't wanna tell mommy and daddy. But it'll blow up in his face soon enough.
Much more likely, but I'd add that he has been ignoring the notices, hoping they'd go away.
Much more likely, but I'd add that he has been ignoring the notices, hoping they'd go away.
Fathead, we'll get you out of junior member someday. One post at a time!