Killer Queen
Banned
GOTG2 and Ragnarok though
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MovieBob - How To Fix "The Fantastic Four" in the MCU
- Thread starter EdibleKnife
- Start date
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Haven't seen GotG2 yet and I'm really optimistic for Ragnarok so I hope you're right. Believe me, having a connected universe that doesn't interfere with creativity is like a dream come true.
I completely agree. It's one of the main reasons I've started to grow weary of Spiderman: Homecoming and why I really wasn't so keen on Civil War. The movies have long since started to develop a reliance on leaning heavily on each other as opposed to holding up as self-contained films in their own right. Even Thor had to go off and help advertise Infinity War right in the middle of Age of Ultron, in a way that was almost totally unrelated to the plot. It's really starting to hamper the films not only creatively, but at a serious narrative level.
It doesn't interfere. You could absolutely set an FF movie in the 60's and connect it. They've already done the same with a movie set in the 40's and a tv show set in the 40s and 50's.
Sad Affleck
Member
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
fox non-withstanding, im kinda curious on marvels position on the fantastic 4. a lot of people like to give marvel heat for the recent events, but the 4 have been sandbagged for years when it comes to merchandising. no marvel appearances(outside of cameos) hell the only game appearance theyve made was their psx crap game. that seems pretty odd.
that would be worth it just for pym and reed to shit talk each other the whole time
that would be worth it just for pym and reed to shit talk each other the whole time
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I'm talking about setting the entire movie/franchise in the 60s. Not starting them there and bringing them to present.
One movie is enough of that. Then you have to get to the main event.
Parallax said:
Exactly.
I would love to see this. Find an actor that matches well with Douglas and just have them riff off each other.
Something like this
DerekOfTheDykes
Member
I remember when Fant4stic was in the works I was thinking about ways Marvel could integrate the F4 into the MCU, and my thoughts were mostly along the same lines ie setting the origin in the 60s and throwing them forward through time.
Turns out a LOT of people seem to have independently come to the same conclusion, because that basic hook became really popular online.
Regardless, I liked Bob's specific pitch in regards to using the Puppetmaster rather than Doom, as well as his idea on how to movie-fy him.
I think the real question won't be introducing the F4 into the MCU eventually, as no matter how late in the game it is a similar hook would be easy to pull off and justify why they haven't been present. The X-Men are a bigger problem, if Marvel was to hypothetically ever get the rights back. At this point it would be so hard to naturally integrate it almost isn't worth it.
Turns out a LOT of people seem to have independently come to the same conclusion, because that basic hook became really popular online.
Regardless, I liked Bob's specific pitch in regards to using the Puppetmaster rather than Doom, as well as his idea on how to movie-fy him.
I think the real question won't be introducing the F4 into the MCU eventually, as no matter how late in the game it is a similar hook would be easy to pull off and justify why they haven't been present. The X-Men are a bigger problem, if Marvel was to hypothetically ever get the rights back. At this point it would be so hard to naturally integrate it almost isn't worth it.
hodayathink
Member
Pym, Reed, and you could/would probably throw Howard Stark in there, too.
Mr. Poolman
Member
I think they need no introduction, at the end of Infinity War 2, after credits, all scene turns to black.
Then this happens.
Cut out to see all Avengers sitting on a table.
Cut to black.
Then this happens.
Cut out to see all Avengers sitting on a table.
Cut to black.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Pretty much this, though (GOTG2 spoilers):
Some folks are suggesting some kind of deal was made besides just the known Ego one. Mainly The Watchers and Adam Warlock are thought to have been part of the FF package, because they are mainly FF characters in the comics.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
i think theyd retcon a lot of shit to get the xmen into the mcu. have the collective of heroes piss off the celestials, get them to fuck around with time and create the mutant genome, theyd come back to earth and mutants not only exist, but have existed. then you can get away with the mistreatment of mutants without making the various heroes complicit.
I believe it only has to be in active production, i.e. actually shooting.
I think they need no introduction, at the end of Infinity War 2, after credits, all scene turns to black.
Then this happens.
Cut out to see all Avengers sitting on a table.
Cut to black.
Somehow this. Just get to Secret Wars/Incursions
have The Final Incursion be the MCU earth vs. the Fox X-Men earth,
watch the movie theaters melt down from over-saturation of money.
watch the movie theaters melt down from over-saturation of money.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
The Sony leaked emails probably provide some insight into how the deal with Fox is structured. IIRC Sony has to pay Marvel a fee 9 months post release for an extension rights. The rights then are 3 years 9 months from previous release to start principal photography and 5 years 9 months to release the movie.
Looking at the historical data, principal photography for Fan4stic began in May 2014, FF: ROTSS released in June 2007. We also know that Fox began photography at the last minute, in order to keep the rights. That suggests they have to begin photography 6 years 11 months after the previous movie's release. Presumably they would have to release it two years later, 8 years 11 months after the previous movie's release.
Looking at the above, and assuming we are in the right path and Fox has a similar extension option with Marvel that Sony has, then we can assume that Fox has to pay Marvel a fee within 11 months after release in order to extend the rights, so they would have had to pay Marvel a fee by July 2016. The rights would then extend and Fox would have to begin photography of a new FF by July 2022 and release it by July 2024.
Keep in mind that those deals are all garbage for Marvel. They were giving them away like candy in the 90s (but better than what they gave away and miraculously recovered in the 70s). IIRC Marvel only gets about 2% of the XMen movies BO gross lol (Deadpool is a different license, I think).
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
"Mad Men meets Marvel" is a great elevator pitch. That alone sells me.
His specific story and character ideas are also really good though. The symbolic arcs would work out perfectly.
His specific story and character ideas are also really good though. The symbolic arcs would work out perfectly.
Have Scarlet Witch get the Infinity Gauntlet, see infinite universes and say "no more mutants?", and change the universe back to its "original" state where mutants have always existed.
Then the story arc for X-men films is to find out why they had been wiped out before
Killer Queen
Banned
GOTG isn't perfect but i found it to be really creative (at least relative to the rest of the MCU) and i liked it a fair bit. Ragnarok seems more in that direction at least visually and story wise. Both very colorful, fun and fantastical.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I want Doom to be introduced separately from the Fantastic Four. Coming at it from someone unfamiliar with the comics I find Doom way more interesting as a villain than they are as a superhero team. He should be a consistent and recurring villain across several movies (Avengers, Iron Man, then culminating in FF) and for goodness' sake, whatever they do, don't kill him off after one film like most of the other decent MCU film villains.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
I think Mole Man would serve as a good introduction to the team. And at the end, they can tease the Skrulls or Doom for the second/third movies.
Plus if they do the Skrulls, they can have a Skull Kill Krew spin-off show/movie.
Waddle Dee
Member
I've never cared for the FF but this imaginary pitch could make for an interesting film. I'll watch whatever Marvel puts out, considering their stellar track record.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Here it is. (there's lots more at the link)
I'd forgotten about shape-shifting Doom so it wasn't perfect but still sounds much better than what we got.
http://collider.com/fantastic-four-original-script-had-galactus-mole-man-more-action/
I kinda like the idea of a 60's themed FF.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I think the biggest problem with time jump FF is how Doom fits in. Doom having attended college with Reed is a super important part of his backstory. So if you are going to have the FF come into the future because of their accident you really only have three options:
1. Get rid of his backstory with Reed (terrible idea)
2. Give him a completely unrelated reason to jump forward in time (way too big of a contrivance)
3. Have him be like 80 years old but keeping himself alive through black magic (while technically something Doom could do, still a bad idea for a number of reasons)
1. Get rid of his backstory with Reed (terrible idea)
2. Give him a completely unrelated reason to jump forward in time (way too big of a contrivance)
3. Have him be like 80 years old but keeping himself alive through black magic (while technically something Doom could do, still a bad idea for a number of reasons)
DerekOfTheDykes
Member
Interesting for the most part, but IIRC Marvel traded an extension on the F4 rights in order to get Daredevil back, so the turnaround is probably shorter in the actual contract than what we saw. That 6 years and 11 months would have to include the one-time extension.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Actually, I've heard of the idea for a 60s FF before with this twist:
The FF start in the 60s, having gone into space and gained powers, then working undercover without revealing themselves officially to the world. They meet the Silver Surfer, who warns of the as yet far-off arrival of Galactus before departing. The Surfer wishes to give Earth decades to evacuate. Reed decides they have no choice but to go out into space and intercept this threat and so they leave... except their existing spacecraft lacks FTL, due to the limitations of the time in spite of Reed's genius.
Traveling at near light speed they experience time dilation and eventually return to Earth without having aged much, to find it is the present of the MCU. Their return is noticed and they become public heroes after explaining their secret origin in the 60s and why nobody has ever heard of them until now. "The Fantastic Four" is coined by the press to describe lost astronauts miraculously returning.
The secret hanging over it all that they learned something awful in space - what Galactus really is, and that everyone is fucked. During the ending Reed immediately sets to work preparing for the arrival of Galactus.
I liked this idea and as a bonus Doom doesn't have to be involved at all in the first film, avoiding the Marvel movie problem of using up a great villain much to quickly.
The FF start in the 60s, having gone into space and gained powers, then working undercover without revealing themselves officially to the world. They meet the Silver Surfer, who warns of the as yet far-off arrival of Galactus before departing. The Surfer wishes to give Earth decades to evacuate. Reed decides they have no choice but to go out into space and intercept this threat and so they leave... except their existing spacecraft lacks FTL, due to the limitations of the time in spite of Reed's genius.
Traveling at near light speed they experience time dilation and eventually return to Earth without having aged much, to find it is the present of the MCU. Their return is noticed and they become public heroes after explaining their secret origin in the 60s and why nobody has ever heard of them until now. "The Fantastic Four" is coined by the press to describe lost astronauts miraculously returning.
The secret hanging over it all that they learned something awful in space - what Galactus really is, and that everyone is fucked. During the ending Reed immediately sets to work preparing for the arrival of Galactus.
I liked this idea and as a bonus Doom doesn't have to be involved at all in the first film, avoiding the Marvel movie problem of using up a great villain much to quickly.
Fox have the rights to a whole bunch of cosmic characters due to the FF rights.
If Marvel Studios got the rights back, it makes perfect sense to have the first film set in space. Introduce Skrulls and the like. Then subsequent films could be Earth based and introduce Doom as a big bad for them or the Avengers.
If Marvel Studios got the rights back, it makes perfect sense to have the first film set in space. Introduce Skrulls and the like. Then subsequent films could be Earth based and introduce Doom as a big bad for them or the Avengers.
Hella Lugosi
Member
Just a make a Doctor Doom movie. No Fantastic Four. Just 90 minutes of Doom performing various feats of mad science and sorcery
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
I think Marvel WANTED to give Fox an extension on Daredevil in exchange for Silver Surfer and Galactus (just those two). Fox declined, the Daredevil license expired and reverted back to Marvel, the netflix show got made and we all were better for it.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Just being in the MCU is the biggest fix possible.
Tranqueris
Banned
Jettison the Fantastic Four and keep Doom.
I don't care too much for the time travel from the 60's idea. I know lots of people have said that and while I think it could be done, I don't think it's necessary to make them work, nor would much be gained by making them a pastiche of that era. The FF concept is undoubtedly rooted in that era which is why they don't seem to resonate quite as well this far out as they seemed to even back in the 80's from what I remember, but taking the main characters from that era doesn't bring much of the pulp sci-fi and space race themes I think are probably more associated with the franchise than the nuclear family aspect.
The second part of his pitch is pretty good, but the villain doesn't seem very compelling nor, very "Fantastic Four" for all the cosmic, science sort of stuff they normally represent. But the whole publicist angle I think is clever for his take for introducing the team to the world and I could see Puppet Master being used in a similar way, but for a secondary villain of sorts.
And Doom being in a second film as the antagonist is better than rushing him in the first, but I'd rather see him as a supporting character who is like Loki or Nebula where he might work with the FF or against them, but he's sticking around for a while.
I think it's necessary for the Fantastic Four to find a new hook though, to some degree, because in my eyes, Guardians of the Galaxy is both the POV introduction to the wacky side of Marvel cosmic as well as family being a key concept as part of the team.
The second part of his pitch is pretty good, but the villain doesn't seem very compelling nor, very "Fantastic Four" for all the cosmic, science sort of stuff they normally represent. But the whole publicist angle I think is clever for his take for introducing the team to the world and I could see Puppet Master being used in a similar way, but for a secondary villain of sorts.
And Doom being in a second film as the antagonist is better than rushing him in the first, but I'd rather see him as a supporting character who is like Loki or Nebula where he might work with the FF or against them, but he's sticking around for a while.
I think it's necessary for the Fantastic Four to find a new hook though, to some degree, because in my eyes, Guardians of the Galaxy is both the POV introduction to the wacky side of Marvel cosmic as well as family being a key concept as part of the team.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Part III - Sequels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihY2oMzmvdg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihY2oMzmvdg
FF2 - Johnny centric Doom movie
FF3 - Sue centric Namor movie
FF4 - Ben centric Mole Man movie guest starring Hulk
Crossover - FF, Avengers and Guardians vs Galactus
FF3 - Sue centric Namor movie
FF4 - Ben centric Mole Man movie guest starring Hulk
Crossover - FF, Avengers and Guardians vs Galactus