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[mr2mike]

Could this be a potential strategy? it'd be a good idea IMO, and a move towards wiping out the no-HD user by at least stopping the growth of their numbers.

Ditch the retard pack outright at PS3 launch, and drop the premium pack with some alterations*, to 299?


*:alterations like ditch the media remote and replace it with a play and charge kit for the wireless.

 

[Chittagong]

I'm not sure, but it's good that we have now a thread where to discuss this scenario.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

Ah, choices.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

by that point, isn't it kind of late?

This holiday season is MS's wildcard. It's where this 'jump on the next gen' philosophy really comes into play.

By the time PS3 is set for launch and Sony has the hype machine rolling at full speed, do you really think simply ditching the 'tard pack is going to make gamers say "Hmmm... you know... scew PS3! I'm getting a 360 now, even though I passed on it 6 months ago!"

You bring up an interesting scenario, mike... but I don't think it would make much of a difference.

 

[flarkminator]

ya know, I was just thinking. MAN Its been at LEAST 5 minutes since a Tard Packs thread. Then BAM you came swooping in! Good thing we have you around to save us.

 

[argon]

From Microsoft's perspective, the whole point of profitability is to get rid of the high fixed cost associated with the built in HDD.

I bet they will eliminate the Premium Pack sooner or later, and the Tard Pack will become standard.

 

[Striek]

Err, if they were going to ditch anything it would be the premium bundle. They didn't ditch standard HDD just because they wanted to bring in casuals at launch, ya know.

 

[IJoel]

Err, if they were going to ditch anything it would be the premium bundle. They didn't ditch standard HDD just because they wanted to bring in casuals at launch, ya know.

Yep, I see this happening. I see them not lowering the price of the Xbox 360 Core System but adding a bundled game like PGR3.

 

[Norse]

Listen, I want the hdd as much as the rest of you guys, but look at all the great adventure games on gc and ps2 and neither uses a hdd outside of final fantasy. So why would the next gen systems really need it? I much rather see MS goto 199 core system when the ps3 launches. Have the hdd available in premium pack at 299 and see what happens.

I want the hdd for media storage. I never really used the xbox hdd for more than some tunes and saves. On 360, I hope to use it more, but time will tell if I really do. I dont think the lack of a hdd is going to hurt ps3 at all, so why should it hurt x360 when it comes to games?

Besides, devs are much happier with just 512megs of ram than 256megs and a hdd.

 

[sangreal]

There is nothing wrong with the retard pack. The retard pack contains the system and a controller, just like the xbox, PS2, and gamecube. I don't see them ever dropping it. If Microosft hadn't executed this so poorly, there wouldn't be nearly as many complaints.

Besides, devs are much happier with just 512megs of ram than 256megs and a hdd.

There was no standard hdd back when it was 256mb either

 

[teruterubozu]

The Core ('tard) Pack is just a bunch of crock.

You know the Core Pack will be impossible to find at launch compared to the Premium Pack.

No retailer is going to carry the Core pack - it'll all be Premium at launch.

 

[Norse]

There is nothing wrong with the retard pack. The retard pack contains the system and a controller, just like the xbox, PS2, and gamecube. I don't see them ever dropping it. If Microosft hadn't executed this so poorly, there wouldn't be nearly as many complaints.

hmm...you have a point about the way they handled this...but if they had come out from the start and said 2 skus, we would have still seen the complaints about the games not taking advantage of a hdd due to the core package. But I agree with you, MS should have been honest from the beginning...all the mags and website interviews with the "every x360 will have a hdd at launch" or something close to that, really upset most of the people complaining.

I dont like the fact we will see 2 skus, but I do understand why they did it.

 

[genjiZERO]

I much rather see MS goto 199 core system when the ps3 launches. Have the hdd available in premium pack at 299 and see what happens.

I can't at all see this happening. How much does it cost to make an XBOX360? MS is sure to be taking a hit on them 'tard pack or no, and I doubt very much that by the time PS3 launches manufactoring costs will have dipped enough for them to lower the price of the system.

The ‘tard pack is here to stay. Offering a system with a HDD is a PR gimmick anyway. They’re just doing it because Sony said PS3 won’t come with one.

 

[PhatSaqs]

MS should get rid of 'tard pack.

x10

 

[Error Macro]

MS should get rid of the 'tard pack @ ...

tomorrow.



Ditch the fugger! I hope no retailer stocks them period.

 

[----]

I want the hdd for media storage. I never really used the xbox hdd for more than some tunes and saves. On 360, I hope to use it more, but time will tell if I really do. I dont think the lack of a hdd is going to hurt ps3 at all, so why should it hurt x360 when it comes to games?

Besides, devs are much happier with just 512megs of ram than 256megs and a hdd.

I'm glad you want the HDD for media storage, but AFAIK you can't copy any files over to it from USB devices or from a computer. There's also no downloadable media services going to be available at the launch of the console, so I really don't know how you're getting media onto your HDD. You also can't copy files off of the HDD onto another device or computer, so anything on the HDD is probably stuck on there like with the original Xbox.

It seems like we're being expected to foot the bill for an overpriced $100 HDD that has a cloudy future and has been completely locked down by MS. I'd like to believe that the HDD has a long thriving future, but with MS so intently focused on just maximizing profits and grabbing the casual gamer market I don't see how the HDD stands a chance in the long run.

 

[Norse]

I can't at all see this happening. How much does it cost to make an XBOX360? MS is sure to be taking a hit on them 'tard pack or no, and I doubt very much that by the time PS3 launches manufactoring costs will have dipped enough for them to lower the price of the system.

I guess that would depend on when PS3 ends up launching. I think you may think its coming alot sooner than I do.

 

[genjiZERO]

I guess that would depend on when PS3 ends up launching. I think you may think its coming alot sooner than I do.

I see Winter 2006 (in US) for PS3, unless something technical happens or XBOX360 doesn't catch on, then Spring 2007.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I'm glad you want the HDD for media storage, but AFAIK you can't copy any files over to it from USB devices or from a computer. There's also no downloadable media services going to be available at the launch of the console, so I really don't know how you're getting media onto your HDD. You also can't copy files off of the HDD onto another device or computer, so anything on the HDD is probably stuck on there like with the original Xbox.

It seems like we're being expected to foot the bill for an overpriced $100 HDD that has a cloudy future and has been completely locked down by MS. I'd like to believe that the HDD has a long thriving future, but with MS so intently focused on just maximizing profits and grabbing the casual gamer market I don't see how the HDD stands a chance in the long run.

Microsoft has said that they are expecting 50% of all 360 gamers to be on XBL. So, 1 out of 2 people to have a HDD is pretty good

 

[Norse]

I'm glad you want the HDD for media storage, but AFAIK you can't copy any files over to it from USB devices or from a computer. There's also no downloadable media services going to be available at the launch of the console, so I really don't know how you're getting media onto your HDD. You also can't copy files off of the HDD onto another device or computer, so anything on the HDD is probably stuck on there like with the original Xbox.

.

I hope you are wrong about all of this.....I thought the usb and networked pc were read only..meaning you couldnt write to them, not the other way around. I mean transfering your mp3 collection from a pc or ipod/mp3 player to your x360 hdd should be allowed. Afterall, you wont be able to write it to any other device from the x360 any way, right? And I heard x360 doesnt support any media that is copy protected, so piracy would be a non issue...esecially since you cant write from an x360.

I would hate to have to rip all my music all over again just to have it on my x360. I hope MS clarifies this before launch.

 

[Norse]

I see Winter 2006 (in US) for PS3, unless something technical happens or XBOX360 doesn't catch on, then Spring 2007.

Wow, your estimates match mine.....not knowing MS's costs for making 360's makes it impossible for me to back up the 199/299 pricing I suggested. So, I guess its just a guess. heh

 

[----]

Microsoft has said that they are expecting 50% of all 360 gamers to be on XBL. So, 1 out of 2 people to have a HDD is pretty good

Being able to use XBL has absolutely nothing to do with a HDD so get that out of your head. The core bundle can get onto XBL just as easily as the premium. All you need for XBL is a memory unit. The reason MS expects XBL usage to jump to 50% is because the service is now installed in the OS and free to use for downloads on every system including the Core. Downloading content with XBL no longer requires a subscription or a credit card. Subscriptions to XBL are only required for multiplayer, but there will even be free weekends where you can play multiplayer on XBL without a subscription. The core package does not prevent you from using XBL at all, in fact the core package comes with a free trial subscription. 50% of Xbox 360 owners using XBL does not mean 50% of the people will have a HDD.

 

[mr2mike]

"I much rather see MS goto 199 core system when the ps3 launches. Have the hdd available in premium pack at 299 and see what happens."

I can't really see that happening either. dropping the price of the console itself by 33% ish percent is kind of steep so soon after launch, but if you consider that for the 100$ premium of the premium pack you get a HDD, a infrared remote, a wireless pad sans batteries and cable to recharge them, and a communicator, wich all combined probably dont even add up to 50$ for MS, it'd be much easier to drop the price of the premium pack than to sell your bare hardware at even more of a loss.

And maybe I just see things in reverse but

"Err, if they were going to ditch anything it would be the premium bundle. They didn't ditch standard HDD just because they wanted to bring in casuals at launch, ya know."

I think they did do it for that reason. well not really "bring in casuals", but really just milk their head start for all it's worth, in a way that allowed them to have the system that they wanted to do from the start (premium) and also squeeze it by the 299 mark to make it giftable and cut back on the excuses people would have not to get one.

Seriousely, look at the features, is there anydoubt that the HDD is an integral part of MS's 360 strategy? so why separate it other than to merely increase the hardware accessibility during that crucial launch window? Once the hardware is established an the proverbial foot is in the proverbial door, they can get away with making much fewer compromises for the sake of the people.

 

[AniHawk]

I think Microsoft should wait until they dominate the industry before they decide they can fuck consumers at every turn.

 

[jett]

I think Microsoft should wait until they dominate the industry before they decide they can fuck consumers at every turn.

Indeed, maybe they got their marketshare info wrong. I guess they don't have neurotic NPD obsessives like we do on this forum.

 

[Tarazet]

The Core ('tard) Pack is just a bunch of crock.

You know the Core Pack will be impossible to find at launch compared to the Premium Pack.

No retailer is going to carry the Core pack - it'll all be Premium at launch.

Absolutely right. It's just like a car launch - all you'll see on the lot for the first two months are the wildest colors, the highest trim line, the most expensive options, and a dealer markup.

 

[----]

Absolutely right. It's just like a car launch - all you'll see on the lot for the first two months are the wildest colors, the highest trim line, the most expensive options, and a dealer markup.

On G4 earlier in the week they compared Microsoft's pricing scheme to a sleazy used car dealer. I wonder if it's worth it to milk people like this when you're getting so much bad press.

 

[Rhindle]

On G4 earlier in the week they compared Microsoft's pricing scheme to a sleazy used car dealer. I wonder if it's worth it to milk people like this when you're getting so much bad press.

HOW DARE THESE THIEVING BASTARDS NOT LOSE ANOTHER $3 BILLION TO KEEP ME HAPPY! mee1!!

I SHALL STRIKE AT THEM WITH THE FURIOUS INDIGNANCE OF MY MESSAGE BOARD POSTINGS UNTIL THEY BOW TO MY DEMANDS!

 

[quetz67]

By the time of PS3 launch MS should get rid of their venture into console hardware

 

[cybamerc]

Do we really need all these Xbox 360 threads?

 

[BirdySky]

MS should get rid of 'tard pack AND release a "Oh my god we're fucked" pack @ PS3 launch

fixed.

 

[_Angelus_]

When PS3 news eventually comes down and its gauge city as well I'd like to see what the these "Microsoft sucks because theyre gauging us" folks will say then.:b

Killer Ken Kutaragi has even stated the PS3 is gonna be expensive,that you'll want to work longer to own that shiny PS3 unit,haha what a character though,you gotta love that ballsy guy none the less:lol .

Just face the facts,next gen. gaming is not going to be cheap. If it bothers people then don't buy,wait till your comfortable with your purchase. Don't half you people import sound tracks,anime,games,and action figures? A couple months of not doing that could have you a X360 yaknow.:b

 

[----]

HOW DARE THESE THIEVING BASTARDS NOT LOSE ANOTHER $3 BILLION TO KEEP ME HAPPY! mee1!!

I SHALL STRIKE AT THEM WITH THE FURIOUS INDIGNANCE OF MY MESSAGE BOARD POSTINGS UNTIL THEY BOW TO MY DEMANDS!

I think it's more of the bait and switch tactics and the accessory pricing which makes the media view Microsoft like a car dealer. It's one thing to not lose $3 billion it's another thing to try to fool people with a makebelieve $299 pricetag and then rob them blind on trying to build the system that was heavily advertised.

Coming from someone who doesn't own Sonys and Nintendos consoles at least I can say they have somehow figured out how to make profits off of their systems without resorting to these sleaze ball tactics. If anything Sony is being upfront about the fact that their system is going to be expensive. If they come out and offer a stripped down system that nickel and dimes you to upgrade it's specs to what they initially promised like it's some kind of PC then they deserve to get bashed by the media as well.

 

[BirdySky]

Just face the facts,next gen. gaming is not going to be cheap.

'Cept for the pirates.

Innocence does not pay.

 

[cybamerc]

it's another thing to try to fool people with a makebelieve $299 pricetag and then rob them blind on trying to build the system that was heavily advertised.

If you're unhappy, don't buy their products. Next-gen starts with PS3 anyway.

 

[mrklaw]

why drop your lowest price offering against a potentially expensive opponent? you want to maximise the difference in price.

A $399 premium pack Vs $449 PS3 - Sony gets the 'premium' sticker and you pay the extra 'because its worth it'. Even if MS drop the price of the premium pack, it still doesn't get far enough from Sony's potential pricing to benefit.

A $249 core pack Vs $449 PS3 - is the difference really worth $200?


IMO when PS3 comes out, price is the only card MS will have left to play.

 

[Acrylamid]

I guess Microsoft will release a new pack somewhere between the who lauch SKUs (which will be discontinued) in terms of scope (i.e. including a wireless controller and the HDD, but no ethernet cable, HD AV cable and headset) for the price of $299 at the PS3 launch.

 

[Ghost]

Im not so sure they'll ever get rid of the HDD-less version because thats the one they can break price barriers with. They are always going to struggle to at least break even on hardware and stay price competitive when they have the HDD, a $50 anchor, round their necks.

 

[----]

They won't get rid of the HDD-less version, they'll get rid of the premium edition:

GI: What percentage of shipped Xbox 360s will be premium vs. core?

Koch: Initially the percentage on the Xbox 360 [premium] will be the predominant configuration to start. It’ll be weighted in the launch window toward the Xbox 360 because we think of what the different consumers coming into the product line what their demand will be. And obviously we have flexibility to adjust the mix based on consumer demand as various segments begin to come into the cycle.

http://gameinformer.com/News/Story/200508/N05.0817.0833.42784.htm

IGN: Do you think that gamers will by more of one SKU that the other? Do you have research that proves the higher price point is going to take off?

Peter: My firm belief, and in all of the discussions I've had in the last couple days with the analysts who are starting to look at this and tear this thing apart, is that the great majority of sales will be at $399. That is huge value for the money. We absolutely project that the Xbox 360 will outsell the Core System in the early going. Over the life cycle that balance will probably change, but for $399, it's phenomenal value.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/642/642645p1.html

It seems like the HDD is just there to get the hardcore gamer at launch and use them as a stepping stone as they transition into a console aimed more at the mainstream market. Personally I think it's wrong for them to use the early adopter/hardcore gamer to subsidize the cost of the console for another caliber of consumer who does not take the industry as seriously.

They've been telling the hardcore gamers that things like the HDD and HDTV are crucial to the future of the platform, but I do not believe this to be genuine in light of the actions they are taking. If they are planning to shift production towards the core console package then use of the HDD will fade away over time. These gradual efforts to remove the HDD from being used in game consoles show Microsoft to be more of a follower of Sony and Nintendo than as a leader or innovator in the industry.

This is heart breaking to a lot of old Xbox fans who viewed the Xbox's HDD, broadband only support, voice chat, and Xbox Live service as great innovations within the console game industry. The compromises MS is making with respect to the 360 would have been akin to the original Xbox having the broadband port phased out of the hardware in favor of a 56K modem port.


Maybe you guys don't remember, but I remember what it felt like to pay $70 for the Dreamcast's broadband adapter only to see it supported by 1 game before the console went belly up. After that having a standard broadband only port on the Xbox felt like one of the greatest things to ever happen in the game industry. It also felt great to have a standard HDD in my Xbox when I saw people go out and spend $100 on a PS2 drive only to have 1 or 2 games support it before Sony lost complete interest. Now once again hardcore gamers are faced with $100 worth of optional hardware that may or may not have a decent future. I don't like it when the console industry does things like this. Optional hardware rarely ever thrives, when it costs $100 it never survives.