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Muchi Muchi Pork! & Pink Sweets |OT| Region Free Yagawa, Rank, and BBW

Princess Skittles said:
How is NCSX these days? I stopped buying from them so long ago because I received two or three GBA games squished because they shipped cardboard box games in envelopes (and I hated how expensive UPS Ground shipping was for how slow it was).
I haven't placed an order with them since Mushihime, or was it Espgaluda, was released last spring. But they've always been to me and I've never had any issues.

I used to love importing from Play-Asia a few years back when GBA were more common. But I hate biting my nails as I wait on the cheapi shipping to come through the US mail. At least with NCSX I can track UPS and I don't mind the $9 shipping fee. Always have had my stuff ship in a sturdy cardboard box with a bubble envelope inside. Never had to ask for special handling.
 

Princess Skittles

Prince's's 'Skittle's
Just out of curiosity's sake, what did everybody pay through NCSX (or other shops)?

I'm kind of curious about the current import specialty shops.

My Play-Asia order was $76.90 (using their $7 Christmas coupon).
 

depths20XX

Member
Princess Skittles said:
Just out of curiosity's sake, what did everybody pay through NCSX (or other shops)?

I'm kind of curious about the current import specialty shops.

My Play-Asia order was $76.90 (using their $7 Christmas coupon).

80 bucks USPS priority shipping
 

LiK

Member
Princess Skittles said:
Just out of curiosity's sake, what did everybody pay through NCSX (or other shops)?

I'm kind of curious about the current import specialty shops.

My Play-Asia order was $76.90 (using their $7 Christmas coupon).

$120 for the LE for me. i was thinking of getting it from AmiAmi but NCS guaranteed the DLC for their first shipment.

Reluctant-Hero said:
I haven't placed an order with them since Mushihime, or was it Espgaluda, was released last spring. But they've always been to me and I've never had any issues.

I used to love importing from Play-Asia a few years back when GBA were more common. But I hate biting my nails as I wait on the cheapi shipping to come through the US mail. At least with NCSX I can track UPS and I don't mind the $9 shipping fee. Always have had my stuff ship in a sturdy cardboard box with a bubble envelope inside. Never had to ask for special handling.

you can also switch to USPS priority for certain items which is cheaper sometimes.
 
A few pennies under $90 with UPS shipping from NCSX.

I think I about the same price for Espgaluda II & Mushihime as well. If Cave produces a region free title, I'm there.

Speaking if region free shooters on '360, isn't there another one coming out in March with some Wonderswan ports on the disc? Can't remember the name though? Anyone know which game I'm talking about and know if it's any good?
 

LiK

Member
Princess Skittles said:
Hmm, without a coupon code?

That's not bad and USPS is ace.

yea, NCS tends to be competitive with P-A prices usually. makes me wonder if they have the same supplier sometimes.
 

depths20XX

Member
Princess Skittles said:
Hmm, without a coupon code?

That's not bad and USPS is ace.

I take that back, forgot to add shipping. Think it came to about 86 total. Maybe their prices went up because I remember they used to be about the same as play-asia was with a coupon code.
 

Tain

Member
Reluctant-Hero said:
A few pennies under $90 with UPS shipping from NCSX.

I think I about the same price for Espgaluda II & Mushihime as well. If Cave produces a region free title, I'm there.

Speaking if region free shooters on '360, isn't there another one coming out in March with some Wonderswan ports on the disc? Can't remember the name though? Anyone know which game I'm talking about and know if it's any good?

Eschatos and whooo knows. Last I heard the game it comes with actually isn't all that great, just good for portable.
 

Yes Boss!

Member
I'm a superfan of NCS.

For many years, well before my time on Gaf, I'd spend thousands at Lik-sang (my favorite) but when they closed shop I moved to play-asia. Ordered tons from them but then their shipping started getting slower unless it was for a heavy EMS orders, which always arrived the next day to me in CA. Tired of PA, I ordered my first ever arcade stick from NCS way back then (a HRAP3) and ever since have remained loyal. They go out of their way to package their stuff very nicely...often using UPS mailers as padding for inside the box. Never had a problem. Priority is generally quicker and cheaper for games but UPS is better for hardware. Their customer service is always excellent...even if you call them. Pricing is generally in-line with others when considering exchange. That said, I'm not too price sensitive when it comes to games so paying a few bucks extra to help one of the american importers stay in business is worth it to me.

I reccomend them.
 

Yes Boss!

Member
Tain said:
Eschatos and whooo knows. Last I heard the game it comes with actually isn't all that great, just good for portable.
Huh?

Who did you hear that from?

Game is great. And nobody has ever played it on a console/arcade yet.

Nothing about the handheld game would leave one believe it might not succeed on a normal screen. Game is fantastic.

I'm expecting the Eschatos release to be one of the most beloved shooter titles released for 360...Cave titles included.
 
My LE was $110 USD shipped with EMS from AmiAmi. Would have been $4 less if PayPal used an OFFICIAL CURRENCY EXCHANGE instead of using its own.
 
Tain said:
The 5pb Ketsui port is really fuckin' good. Don't worry at all about it; it might be the most accurate of all the 360 ports. The Daioujou port gets a bit of a bad rap, as the Black Label portion is actually pretty good.



Well, no matter what, you'll be running through the 360, which means the games will be upscaled. CRTs in this case will only help by adding that natural CRT blur. Use whatever you can rotate that has the least amount of input delay and is in a position for you to get your face and your joystick all up in.


That's awesome to hear about Ketsui! Yeah, I hope I can still get boxed, new versions of the games in a couple months when I got the cash.

I'll give you a little secret to input delay free gaming, and this is universal for almost all HDTV's: VGA. Little known secret, and trust me this is coming from a fighting games fanatic who counts frames like they are hundred dollar bills. VGA eliminates lag on most LCDs.

depths20XX said:
Ketsui port is one of my favorite Cave ports along with Futari. Near zero loading times and it plays great. I'd say best way to play is definetly through a tated CRT. Set the 360 to the lowest resolution and the games look great, even the high res ones.

Idk about setting the 360 to lowest resolution.... That doesn't make sense to me since the assets on these ports (minus the backgrounds) are incredibly crisp and perfect. I feel like you would lose some of the beauty. For Ketsui, Guwange, and BBW Porkers + Pink Sweets I gotcha, but the high res versions were made to be displayed in HD.

Speaking of Mushi Muchi BBW, these chicks are half pig! Be nice to these ladies, they can't help being a little chunky its genetic.
 

rabbitsyndrome

Neo Member
Princess Skittles said:
Just out of curiosity's sake, what did everybody pay through NCSX (or other shops)?

I'm kind of curious about the current import specialty shops.

My Play-Asia order was $76.90 (using their $7 Christmas coupon).

Paid $122.66 for the LE with a bonus phone card from Amiami (EMS shipping).

Yes Boss! said:
I'm expecting the Eschatos release to be one of the most beloved shooter titles released for 360...Cave titles included.

It's that good? Eschatos wasn't really on my radar, but I guess I need to consider getting it now!
 
Eh, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Both games are still really really fun, even if they're not completely arcade accurate. Still, it would be nice if Cave patched the game and fixed whatever issues they may have.


Gonna try to make it to stage 5 in MMP tonight. The game starts getting pretty damn hard once the rank catches up to you though. Stage 4 is rough.
 
iconoclast said:
Seems like these games have a lot of issues: http://www.cave-stg.com/forum/index.php?topic=985.275

Sucks, but at least they're still really fun to play. Hopefully Cave patches the problems, but I'm not counting on it since this port seems pretty lazy as it is.

They are putting them out too fast. What is the rush, Cave? It's like they have some hookers and drug dealers they have to pay off. I can't even keep up with all these Cave games. It's madness!

Do any of the other games have any known issues? How do the other ports stack up? Sorry to ask this here, I don't feel like digging up the other cave threads sorry for the laziness.
 
As far as I know, Death Smiles 2 is the only other 360 port that is kinda eh. The arcade mode was slapped on at the last minute, so it has a few problems (both pre and post-patch). The rest of the ports are solid.

Dai Ou Jou Black Label was a mess, but it was recently patched and it's great now.


PS. The latter half of stage 4 in MMP at max rank is fucking crazy. No way I'm making it to stage 5 tonight. :|
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Arpharmd B said:
Do any of the other games have any known issues? How do the other ports stack up? Sorry to ask this here, I don't feel like digging up the other cave threads sorry for the laziness.

Here's a relevant link: A ranking of the PS2 and X360 Cave console ports based on arcade accuracy

Most of the concerns are due to arcade accuracy issues. Many people won't care about these things... although in the case of games like Deathsmiles, the fact that the NA version had no slowdown and was thus much harder than the arcade, Japanese or PAL versions is troubling to many (since fixed with a patch, apparently).

Also... most Cave games seem to be ported by a different third-party developer each time, so there's no reason to expect perfection/inferiority... it all depends on the house they went with, and how good a job they did.
 
BocoDragon said:
Here's a relevant link: A ranking of the PS2 and X360 Cave console ports based on arcade accuracy

Most of the concerns are due to arcade accuracy issues. Many people won't care about these things... although in the case of games like Deathsmiles, the fact that the NA version had no slowdown and was thus much harder than the arcade, Japanese or PAL versions is troubling to many (since fixed with a patch, apparently).

Also... most Cave games seem to be ported by a different third-party developer each time, so there's no reason to expect perfection/inferiority... it all depends on the house they went with, and how good a job they did.

I'm no videogame developer, but if you ask me, outside of actually emulating the hardware, trying to actually program in slowdown to match vastly inferior arcade hardware seems like an incredibly daunting task don't you think? I guess it's understandable why they have trouble nailing it 100%.

To be honest, this kind of sounds stupid to me:

JP X360 mode is about 70% accurate, and is not worth playing (again, US version is even worse) as it significantly restricts scoring potential.

Just because it's got a little bit less slowdown, that just changes the game a little, that is not going to effect your scoring potential unless you've been practicing the PCB your whole life. Think about it. What if they tweaked the arcade version to have a little less slowdown here and there... would that automatically be a "bad" thing? I think this whole 90% vs. 95% slowdown arcade accuracy thing is getting a little out there. It can't be -that hard- to adjust to, and it's not neccesarily a bad thing.
 

danmaku

Member
Arpharmd B said:
Just because it's got a little bit less slowdown, that just changes the game a little, that is not going to effect your scoring potential unless you've been practicing the PCB your whole life. Think about it. What if they tweaked the arcade version to have a little less slowdown here and there... would that automatically be a "bad" thing? I think this whole 90% vs. 95% slowdown arcade accuracy thing is getting a little out there. It can't be -that hard- to adjust to, and it's not neccesarily a bad thing.

Oh no, it will. If the game runs faster it's much more difficult to avoid bullets and you will be forced to take less risks during a scoring run. Usually less risk means lower scores. This doesn't mean much to the average player, but if you want to compete with japanese top players, you need to play the "proper" version (the arcade one or a faithful port), an american "high speed" version is totally useless.

Of course if the game is like 90% accurate, it's perfectly fair to compare scores. Death Smiles US is an extreme example of what shouldn't be done in a port, usually the accuracy is much better.
 
The thing about the slowdown accuracy, to me, is that if I've never played the games or only played them VERY briefly in an arcade before getting the home port (like Death Smiles), having missing slowdown doesn't really bother me as I play it to have fun since there's no way in hell I'll ever have a competitive score. If my goal is simply to get better then I can work with what I have.

Would I like it to be as accurate as possible? Certainly, but not at the cost of not getting the port itself like what happened with PS2 Ketsui.
 

Tain

Member
At these prices, yeah, I expect close to perfect ports. I bought this expecting something pretty damn close to the arcade version, something resembling Yagawa's originally designed games (not the port team's changes) both in terms of difficulty curves and scoring options.

If there are stupid difficulty walls that are now present that weren't in the original, due to things like irregular slowdown, I'm annoyed. Similarly, if there are challenges in the original that are no longer in here, I'm annoyed. This stuff bugged me enough to completely stop playing PS2 Mushi.

Here's hoping for a patch. To Cave's twitter!

Yes Boss! said:
Huh?

Who did you hear that from?

It's been a little bit, wish I could remember. :x
 

naoki5001

Member
Yeah, it gets added to the Muchi Muchi Pork menu. The Pink Sweets bosses appear after the Muchi Muchi level boss in each stage.
 
cave-stg (EOJ) posted a review of the ports: http://www.cave-stg.com/?p=1041#more-1041

I'll add it to the OP.

--

Almost took down the stage 4 boss in Muchi Pork. I hope this fight is missing a lot of slowdown, because some of the patterns are really hard to dodge at full speed. Still, I would've killed him if I didn't have three completely stupid deaths on stage 3. :\

At least I finally managed to get over 60 million. MMP is quickly becoming one of my favorite shooters of all time. Such an amazing game.
 

JEKKI

Member
man the first time I played these games was with a pad coz I was too lazy to unplug my stick from my PS3 =P

finally got to play again, did an arcade run thru Pink Sweets, except with my stick.

sooooooo much better!! also the game is terribly fun!!

so many times I die in that game thinking "oh! if I did this then I coulda stayed alive!!"

got so much to learn!!

I wasnt so hooked with Death Smiles & Esp II like I was with MushiFu, but I think this game will bring the addiction back!!
 
I know I shouldn't be too annoyed as I'm not an expert at the genre and this'll be the first time I've ever played MMP/PS but a number of the decisions made in this port are just baffling.

Tain said:
I don't think you gotta be some kind of expert to be pissed at the port's shortcomings. You buy an arcade port, you expect it to behave like the original. But now you'll always be wondering if that wall you're stuck at is intentional or just the result of the port's inaccuracies! Wonderful! I know I've been annoyed about it, hopefully Cave will patch some of the issues.

True that's a major part of it and it bugged me whenever I tried to play Deathsmiles pre-patch. However some of the stuff going on in MMP/PS like borked leaderboards, the wonky method for selecting certain modes, the lack of an infinite-life "glitch", and some modes being impossible due to it all really makes me wonder what the heck is going on over at Cave.
 

Tain

Member
I don't think you gotta be some kind of expert to be pissed at the port's shortcomings. You buy an arcade port, you expect it to behave like the original. But now you'll always be wondering if that wall you're stuck at is intentional or just the result of the port's inaccuracies! Wonderful! I know I've been annoyed about it, hopefully Cave will patch some of the issues.
 
There are plenty of options missing that affect every user, not just people who have played 100 hours of the PCB. The lack of visual options, the extremely basic button mappings, the mixed leaderboards, etc. Honestly, both of these games feel like they started out as XBLA ports.

I wish both MMP and PS got the attention they deserve, but regardless, they're still great games.
 

danmaku

Member
JEKKI said:
so many times I die in that game thinking "oh! if I did this then I coulda stayed alive!!"

Same here. I think the hitbox in MMP is slightly bigger than the usual Cave standard.

I think the worst problem are the mixed leaderboards. What were they thinking? I can't believe it was unintentional, but what's the reason behind this choice? Even the missing wave of enemies in stage 5 is a pretty big error. Looks like they didn't playtest the games, and it's strange since Guwange was almost arcade perfect, they even asked an expert player to check the quality of the port.
 

LiK

Member
I was playing Arcade mode this weekend and HOLY FUCK. Pink Sweets is uber HARD. I think I died every 2 seconds after the first stage. I need to read up on how to play it correctly lol. The most brutal CAVE shmup I've played to date.
 

simtmb

Member
I was so hyped to finally play MMP, but now i realized that I've only been playing Pink Sweets arrange mode xD.

WAY TOO FUN.

I was out of it with STG's again awhile ago, till this pack came along. So amazing. These two games are gdlk.

The only thing i actually hate tbh...is the menus and placement of options lol. It's all over the place.
 
I seriously cannot have a run in Muchi Pork without dying at least 3 times to completely stupid shit (running into random bullets, crashing into enemies, etc). I keep improving my score, but I still haven't been able to kill the damn stage 4 boss. :\
 
YES! Finally I had a good run in MMP. Killed the stage 4 boss and proceeded to make it all the way to the final boss. Got annihilated of course, but I finally made some progress (and quite a bit too).

Got a 115m score and #15 on the leaderboard at least. :D
 
NCSX shipped my copy this morning. So I should get it by next Tuesday or Wednesday. Looking forward to it.

I actually suck at shooters and I've yet to 1CC a single one. But I love them so much.
 

danmaku

Member
LiK said:
I was playing Arcade mode this weekend and HOLY FUCK. Pink Sweets is uber HARD. I think I died every 2 seconds after the first stage. I need to read up on how to play it correctly lol. The most brutal CAVE shmup I've played to date.

Read the guide by Plasmo on Cave-STG. From his walkthrough:

Stage 1: Immediately raise your Shot frequency to #15 or #20 and kill yourself right at the first enemy that comes on screen.

Says a lot about Pink Sweets, lol
 

hipgnosis

Member
danmaku said:
Read the guide by Plasmo on Cave-STG. From his walkthrough:

Stage 1: Immediately raise your Shot frequency to #15 or #20 and kill yourself right at the first enemy that comes on screen.

Says a lot about Pink Sweets, lol
Lol. That's Yagawa for you. The man is a genius.
 
Finally rescued mine from the post office. Very much looking forward to the insanity.

2011-02-28_12-23-50_301-1.jpg
 

Bebpo

Banned
I read the OP, the shmups forum strategies for the arcade releases of MMP and PS, and watched the top replays and yeah, I still have no idea how the scoring system works for the 4 modes (arcade x 2, arrange x 2).

As I understand it, in MMP arcade you want to kill things with lard attack to produce medals and somehow you can make the medals bigger and bigger until the max of big gold ones and then you keep getting big gold ones forever? until you die when you kill with lard and then refill lard with standard shot. I can get to the gold points by stage 2, but the top replay gets to them by midway through stage 1. I have no idea what he's doing.

Then in MMP arrange uh, somehow you build up a counter and when it's max and you do lard attack there are lots and lots and lots of bullets but your lard thing slows them down so you can dodge them and you get tons of points. Also in the top replay the guy suicides right away twice in a row. No idea why.

In PS arcade, you want to never use the rose crack (to keep rank low) and just shoot things with shot while dodging stuff? How do you adjust your rate of fire? I thought it was tapping shot but it never changed from #10 for me. In the replays the guy suicides at random spots. No idea why.

in PS arrange, you want to use rose crack nonstop to get your bonus meter up to x64 and then use normal shots to kill enemies while the x64 chain is going. Repeat throughout and then launch your options at certain points for even more points? If I'm understanding this right, PS arrange actually seems the most straightforward of the scoring systems.


That's all for playing for score. Now if you want to play for 1CC, what is the best way to play MMP/MMP Arrange/PS/PS Arrange? I get that PS arcade, you don't use rose crack, don't pick up point stuff, and try to fire your gun as little as possible and suicide at spots? No idea about the other 3 though.

Also I need to add you guys on XBLA. Under friend leaderboards I have one guy and I'm not sure which one of you he is. Bebpojp is my tag.
 

Ryn

Member
Hoooly shit. I have spent the past few hours getting trainwrecked by the stage 2 boss in Muchi Muchi pork. The one time that I actually beat him and get up to past the midboss in stage 3 my score is lower than my highest by 2 million. (Highest 17 mil dying at stage 2 boss). After that run I was back to getting my ass pounded with those stupid green pies he throws out. I can't believe how fucking hard the stage 2 boss is for me right now. I need to put this away for tonight before I piss myself.

I'm not even touching Pink Sweets yet.
 

Daigoro

Member
iconoclast said:
There are plenty of options missing that affect every user, not just people who have played 100 hours of the PCB. The lack of visual options, the extremely basic button mappings, the mixed leaderboards, etc. Honestly, both of these games feel like they started out as XBLA ports.

I wish both MMP and PS got the attention they deserve, but regardless, they're still great games.

agreed. especially at the price point these games are going for. its dissapointing.

iconoclast said:
There are plenty of options missing that affect every user, not just people who have played 100 hours of the PCB. The lack of visual options, the extremely basic button mappings, the mixed leaderboards, etc. Honestly, both of these games feel like they started out as XBLA ports.

I wish both MMP and PS got the attention they deserve, but regardless, they're still great games.

i hate it when they cant get the leaderboards right. annoying shit.

wait though, whats up with the button mapping? is it screwed up? this is a HUGE issue for me.
 
danmaku said:
Oh no, it will. If the game runs faster it's much more difficult to avoid bullets and you will be forced to take less risks during a scoring run. Usually less risk means lower scores. This doesn't mean much to the average player, but if you want to compete with japanese top players, you need to play the "proper" version (the arcade one or a faithful port), an american "high speed" version is totally useless.

Of course if the game is like 90% accurate, it's perfectly fair to compare scores. Death Smiles US is an extreme example of what shouldn't be done in a port, usually the accuracy is much better.

I wouldn't compare scores of the 360 versions to the arcade, period. Think King of Kong here.

The King of Kong players play on 100% true PCB's. If you are taking the games that serious, PCB is the only way to go, no other score IMO would be legitimate. Even if there is a 1% difference in the slowdown, that's too much of a difference if you are talking true, world record scoring against the top Japanese players in arcades (if that is your aim). Your scoring potential is not compromised on 360, because your aim should be that 360 leaderboard and not top Japanese scores, they are playing a different game. 10% difference is pretty big when you are talking about this level of gameplay.

Since it is very difficult if not impossible to do 100% ports, since some of the slowdown is not intentional but caused by the SH3 (or whatever it's called) that the originals run on, we will never have 100% true ports.

That's why when I play Death Smiles, I have no problem with the HD version, even if it's a little less accurate. In my eyes, you keep the scores of 360 Mode totally seperate from Arcade mode or a PCB.

So, in my eyes even a 75% accurate game might as well be 100%, it's just a new version of the same game anyway. Arcade accuracy is great, but considering it's next to impossible, people shouldn't be so worried and dismiss a port even though it's a little off accuracy wise. Less slowdown does not equate to bad, it equates to different which is what these ports are by default. Just play it for what it is, and compare your scores to other 360 players, just like the Japanese would to each other in an arcade. You aren't playing a worse version, you are playing a different version. This is the key understanding that I am trying to get across.


80% accurate vs. 90% accurate - it simply doesn't matter, because the point is it's inaccurate, and because of that, if you are truly interested in getting a high score to compete with the top Japanese arcade players, King of Kong style you need the PCB!


The 360 ports are really a dream come true for us. We have a global leaderboard to compare and compete with, superplays at the touch of a button, you don't have to worry about pumping 100 yen each play to master the games, and you have highly improved graphics. The only trade off is that you don't get to play in a true arcade. Nothing can match the atmosphere and draw of a real arcade.

Sorry if that was long winded.
 

danmaku

Member
Bebpo said:
As I understand it, in MMP arcade you want to kill things with lard attack to produce medals and somehow you can make the medals bigger and bigger until the max of big gold ones and then you keep getting big gold ones forever? until you die when you kill with lard and then refill lard with standard shot. I can get to the gold points by stage 2, but the top replay gets to them by midway through stage 1. I have no idea what he's doing.

The medals follow the same system of Raizing games: each wave of medals increase in value from 100 to 10.000 points. To start the next "wave" you must clear the screen from all the medals of the previous value. So you should:

- charge the lard bar by picking up piggies
- use lard attack
- switch to shot to suck in all the medals
- when there are no more medals on screen use lard attack again
- repeat (and recharge the lard bar if needed)

You want to increase the medal value as fast as possible, so at the beginning of the first level you should repeat this cycle again and again with short bursts of the lard attack. When you reach 10.000, try to keep it as long as you can. It's important to notice that dying doesn't reset your chain, the chain resets only if you let the medals fall out of the screen (of course this can happen when you die and there are a lot of medals on screen).

There's also a lot of boss milking, by using bombs and suicides to get more bombs, but doing so jacks up the rank very fast so I'm not trying it until I'm more familiar with the game.
 
Daigoro said:
wait though, whats up with the button mapping? is it screwed up? this is a HUGE issue for me.


They're not really screwed up, they're just super basic. You can only map one button to one function, and the functions available are just the standard shot, laser, bomb, etc. There's no rapid fire or anything extra.
 
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