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[RetroGamingUK]

It was admittedly weaker in places than both.

You were definitely missing out by being locked to one console that gen.

Absolutely

Just looking at consoles, today Switch consoles still get so many excellent Nintendo games making it essential, where as Microsoft have practically made owning an Xbox pointless to anyone with a PS5.

As for 5th gen, these are my top 8 console exclusives for each...

Saturn
1. Virtua Fighter 2
2. Sega Rally
3. Nights: into Dreams
4. Saturn Bomberman
5. Virtua Cop 2
6. Fighting Vipers
7. Panzer Dragoon II Zwei
8. Virtual On

N64
1. Ocarina of Time
2. Mario 64
3. Perfect Dark
4. Banjo Kazooie
5. GoldenEye
6. F-Zero X
7. International Superstar Soccer 2000
8. Lylat Wars

PlayStation
1. Metal Gear Solid
2. Gran Turismo 2
3. Tekken 3
4. ISS Pro Evolution 2
5. Tomb Raider II
6. Ridge Racer Type 4
7. Ape Escape
8. Silent Hill

Most people couldn't afford all 3, so most people missed out on so many classics in the late 90s. PC had so many big exclusives compared to today too.

 

[NeverYouMind]

There were so many games coming out for PS1 that I doubt that anyone that owned it felt like they were missing out unlike owners of the other two.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

There were so many games coming out for PS1 that I doubt that anyone that owned it felt like they were missing out unlike owners of the other two.

I agree

It has quality across all genres, though I'd say there's nothing on PS1 or Saturn that reaches the level of Oracina of Time or Mario 64 for me, Perfect Dark and GoldenEye are the only console FPS games I like from that generation too.

 

[nkarafo]

We all very much appreciate that library of 2d games today, and I did back then, too. But the zeitgeist in those years was "32-BIT CDROM" and these consoles were promising the fucking world. When ps1 won the market, 2d games were starting to get more of a fair shake again but in those years of 3DO, 32X, and Jaguar, I was in a frenzy for 3d games.

I knew that some of these 2d games I was passing over were more well developed and complete than the 3d ones I passed them over for. But novelty goes a long way. Twisted Metal is a hot mess but hey I'd never played anything like that. That counts for a lot even if it doesn't hold up the best these days. At the time I wanted to see what my new $300 toy could really do and there were endless examples.

And no the huge bias towards 3d wasn't just everyone blinded by sony marketing. It's because 3d was there and it was the real thing. It looked awesome and enabled so much new gameplay. I those 94-96 years were dominated by 3d games and it's a totally natural thing to expect.

Fully agree.

It's so easy today to critisize the 3D 5th gen games and in hindsight declare they haven't aged well, And how the 2D games look timeless and all that.

But back then it was different. People wanted 3D textured grsphics. That's what those new consoles brought to the table. Whoever was going to deliver the better 3D textured graphics would win. And so it did.

 

[NeverYouMind]

It has quality across all genres, though I'd say there's nothing on PS1 or Saturn that reaches the level of Oracina of Time or Mario 64 for me.

Okay but they are both wack to me. Toddler-fare compared to the likes of Soul Reaver and Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation. I never knew anyone with Banjo Kazooie or Resident Evil 2 on N64 at the time either.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Fully agree.

It's so easy today to critisize the 3D 5th gen games and in hindsight declare they haven't aged well, And how the 2D games look timeless and all that.

But back then it was different. People wanted 3D textured grsphics. That's what those new consoles brought to the table. Whoever was going to deliver the better 3D textured graphics would win. And so it did.

In many ways the games that were popular back then are still popular today.

The appeal was newly immersive worlds to escape into and that's why the likes of 3D Mario, Zelda, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy and Harry Potter were huge during the 5th gen and are huge today.

People would have you believe that if Bernie Stolar had allowed porting of 2D shmups that it would be a different story, people didn't want them then just like they don't want them today.

 

[NeverYouMind]

In many ways the games that were popular back then are still popular today.

The appeal was newly immersive worlds to explore and that's why the likes of 3D Mario, Zelda, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy and Harry Potter are still big today.

People would have you believe that if Bernie Stolar had allowed porting of 2D shmups that it would be a different story, people didn't want them then just like they don't want them today.

Resident Evil is a dominant IP but Zelda fell off after COVID lockdowns and plays second fiddle to FromSoft medieval themed titles. You have to be a habitual Nintendo user to even consider playing Mario or Pokemon nowadays. Nintendo is a hell of a drug.

P.S. Harry Potter fades in and out of relevancy based on media.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Resident Evil is a dominant IP but Zelda fell off after COVID lockdowns and plays second fiddle to FromSoft medieval themed titles. You have to be a habitual Nintendo user to even consider playing Mario or Pokemon nowadays. Nintendo is a hell of a drug.

P.S. Harry Potter fades in and out of relevancy based on media.

I'm sorry but you're talking out of your arse!

Zelda Tears of the Kingdom (21m) joins Breath of the Wild (32m) in absolutely trouncing sales of prior installments (previous high being Twilight Princess at 9m sold) and released way after the pandemic.

Zelda has absolutely blown up in terms of players and fans this decade,

Mario Kart 8 and Mario Odyssey on Switch are two of the best selling Mario games of all time and counting.

Hogwarts Legacy has been a consistent high seller for 2 years now.

https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Zelda_games

List of best-selling Mario games

This is the list of all the best-selling games in the entire Mario series. The Super Mario series is the best-selling video game franchise. Over 85 of the games within the series have managed to sell over 1 million copies, and this doesn't include titles from the Yoshi, Wario, or Donkey Kong...

nintendo.fandom.com

 

[Valonquar]

People didn't feel like they were missing out because half the games never left Japan. Anyone at all that was a Street Fighter fan could easily see the difference on Saturn. Most of the people I hung out with owned both Saturn AND PS, but gaming was like our entire existence, and paid the bills back then too.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

People didn't feel like they were missing out because half the games never left Japan. Anyone at all that was a Street Fighter fan could easily see the difference on Saturn. Most of the people I hung out with owned both Saturn AND PS, but gaming was like our entire existence, and paid the bills back then too.

Would the likes of Sakura Wars, Super Robot Wars, Night Warriors, Grandia or Neon Genesis Evangelion really have moved the needle for Saturn in the west?

Outside of the Final Fantasy games JRPGs didn't sell in great numbers in the west. Barely anyone in the west bought Dragon Force on Saturn or Grandia on PlayStation for example.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

So basically...

- no

...

Well done for halving Saturn's sales there

In our timeline, these games did nothing for the Sega Saturn, they only served to boost the PS1, so it's preferable not to have all of them in my opinion.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

on our timeline these games did nothing for the Sega Saturn, they only served to boost the PS1 then it is preferable not to have them all imo.

Many people bought Saturns to play those games, FIFA and Tomb Raider were big sellers in the UK.

You don't just take away games completely because they didn't look as nice as other consoles, it's always better to have them than not.

Saturn desperately needed quality games in these 2 categories...


1. 3D action/adventure

2. 3D platformers

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Many people bought Saturns to play those games, FIFA and Tomb Raider were big sellers in the UK.

another timeline there would be other games, people would like them as much as these, new reality, new heroes if you don't understand this, well. But these are just conjectures, the past cannot change, but since you try to refute me, I suggest you present some solution to save the Sega Saturn without modifying its hardware. I wait

 

[RetroGamingUK]

another timeline there would be other games, people would like them as much as these, new reality, new heroes if you don't understand this, well. But these are just conjectures, the past cannot change, but since you try to refute me, I suggest you present some solution to save the Sega Saturn without modifying its hardware. I wait

Yeah that's the best starting point, hardware is set in stone, Saturn is Saturn.

In order of priority

1. Investment in dev tools, they're way behind Sony in this regard, something like SGL needs to be available by end of 1993, not 1995

2. Yuji Naka, you're making a 3D Sonic whether you like it or not. Console needs to launch with Sonic Jam, and a game with several levels based off Sonic Jam's Sonic World engine needs to be ready by Christmas 1996

3. Instead of 32X fob Calinske off with a couple more SVP games (Star Wars being one).

4. Launch western Saturn in September as originally planned

5. Yu Suzuki, after Virtua Fighter 2 no more derivative cash-ins (Kids/Fighting Vipers/Megamix), move straight onto Project Berkely, Saturn needs a fully 3D adventure exclusive by Christmas 1997 (otherwise RetroGamingUK is trading his in for a PlayStation with Tomb Raider II)

6. Tetsuya Mizuguchi, after Sega Rally no more arcade racers, I want you to make a big driving game with a career mode based on the Sega Rally engine, it needs to release before Gran Turismo.


Result: 30 million units sold as of 2000

Best selling games:

1. Sonic World 2
2. Sonic World
3. Sega GT
4. Shenmue
5. Tomb Raider II
6. Virtua Fighter 2
7. Sega Rally
8. Daytona USA (doesn't run like shit at launch thanks to SGL)
9. Resident Evil
10. Nights: into Dreams (doesn't release until 1999)

 

[Valonquar]

Would the likes of Sakura Wars, Super Robot Wars, Night Warriors, Grandia or Neon Genesis Evangelion really have moved the needle for Saturn in the west?

Outside of the Final Fantasy games JRPGs didn't sell in great numbers in the west. Barely anyone in the west bought Dragon Force on Saturn or Grandia on PlayStation for example.

Nah, PS1 had such dominance it would not have mattered too much, but Saturn could have held on longer and given possibly more funding and 3rd party support to Sega for the future of Dreamcast. Overall I think gaming just still wasn't ready for global. Back then it still took over a year for a JP game to release to English markets, often in a very half ass translation state which def did not help.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Like I said before, I think more of a mistake than Shinobi was SEGA not porting Revenge Of Death Adder and Arbian Fight, games that not only would have been a great showcase for Saturn 2D and with Golden Axe a totally brilliant game to a SEGA fans IP fav, but also great titles for the Multi-Tap

They're not possible, there's a lack of memory, Rad Mobile had to change some models to run at 30fps.
Are you really comparing Cyber Speedway to the PlayStation version of Wipeout ?
Sega made a mistake by designing hardware unsuitable for running its own games.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

If you enjoyed Fighting Force or something more because it was 3D, sorry, you did fall for the marketing of 3D flash

I liked this game, it officially sold 1M copies, Sega made a mistake in not naming this game as Streets of Rage, change the characters, music by Yuzo Koshiro, job done.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Yu Suzuki, after Virtua Fighter 2 no more derivative cash-ins (Kids/Fighting Vipers/Megamix), move straight onto Project Berkely, Saturn needs a fully 3D adventure exclusive by Christmas 1997 (otherwise RetroGamingUK is trading his in for a PlayStation with Tomb Raider II)

Fighting Vipers/Megamix are more innovative and directed by Hiroshi Takaoka. Tomb Raider II was polarizing and far from an ideal sequel.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Fighting Vipers/Megamix are more innovative and directed by Hiroshi Takaoka. Tomb Raider II was polarizing and far from an ideal sequel.

Tomb Raider II reviewed great and sold great.

I was a big fan of the original and going into Christmas 1997 I had my eye on 3 games; Last Bronx, Touring Car, Sonic R).

Last Bronx didn't click with me like VF2, Touring Car's demo was a fucking disgrace, the final straw was playing Sonic R in Curry's, it looked amazing but half an hour in I'm feeling "this is terrible, why can't I get into it".

Right next to it though is a PlayStation with the Venice level of Tomb Raider II. After about 15 minutes of playing I'm buying a PlayStation along with TR2, Soul Blade and ISS Pro.



Tomb Raider III, on the other hand, can fuck off.

 

[Crayon]

PS: VF/Daytona as the face of Saturn (still for hardcore haters, never mind then) after VC/2, Sega Rally, VF Remix/2 (or random ok stuff like Hang On) vs weaker board PS ports is another (Sony) marketing success (gaming/mainstream media covered it & little after).

OMG are you insinuating that I'm a hardcore hater? My lord, man.

Only by rejecting all multiplatform games would Sega have any chance. And definitely, their 3D game should be clones of Guardian Heroes and Clockwork knight maybe some fighting games , many clones made at industrial level, after so many games some of them burst the bubble. In any other scenario, Sega wouldn't have a chance, not with the weak Saturn that was released.

OMG you are a madman!.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Yeah that's the best starting point, hardware is set in stone, Saturn is Saturn.

In order of priority

1. Investment in dev tools, they're way behind Sony in this regard, something like SGL needs to be available by end of 1993, not 1995

2. Yuji Naka, you're making a 3D Sonic whether you like it or not. Console needs to launch with Sonic Jam, and a game with several levels based off Sonic Jam's Sonic World engine needs to be ready by Christmas 1996

3. Instead of 32X fob Calinske off with a couple more SVP games (Star Wars being one).

4. Launch western Saturn in September as originally planned

5. Yu Suzuki, after Virtua Fighter 2 no more derivative cash-ins (Kids/Fighting Vipers/Megamix), move straight onto Project Berkely, Saturn needs a fully 3D adventure exclusive by Christmas 1997 (otherwise RetroGamingUK is trading his in for a PlayStation with Tomb Raider II)

6. Tetsuya Mizuguchi, after Sega Rally no more arcade racers, I want you to make a big driving game with a career mode based on the Sega Rally engine, it needs to release before Gran Turismo.


Result: 30 million units sold as of 2000

Best selling games:

1. Sonic World 2
2. Sonic World
3. Sega GT
4. Shenmue
5. Tomb Raider II
6. Virtua Fighter 2
7. Sega Rally
8. Daytona USA (doesn't run like shit at launch thanks to SGL)
9. Resident Evil
10. Nights: into Dreams (doesn't release until 1999)

your result would be worse than what Sega achieved.