My analysis of Saturn's failure

They're not possible, there's a lack of memory, Rad Mobile had to change some models to run at 30fps.
Are you really comparing Cyber Speedway to the PlayStation version of Wipeout ?
Sega made a mistake by designing hardware unsuitable for running its own games.
I'm not going to even bother to debate your wind up drivel
Going early by a month would've been fruitless since they'd still miss out on marketing budget and advertising cycles set for a September launch many months earlier in the year, and a month's worth head-start wouldn't have done much for the Saturn in building a substantive lead ahead of the PlayStation. Even with the selection of games you list, SEGA still run into a similar problem as they did back in May: the software just wouldn't have had appeal with American gamers the way Sony's PS1 launch lineup did.

Like, we can probably debate the merits of a game like 1Xtreme compared to VF Remix in a contemporary context all day, but back in 1995, teenagers in America looking to get a new 32-bit console were absolutely more impressed with a game like 1Xtreme than they were with VF Remix. You have to take tastes at the time into account, arguably more so than us looking back on it today in hindsight.

I'm not really gonna get into the PS2 stuff here as that's got little to nothing to do with Saturn, but I will just say that Gamecube wasn't the ease-of-use miracle you're making it out to be, in large part because of the mini-disc format they chose. Nintendo were easing into being easier to work with as a platform holder to 3P licensees, but they were still lightyears behind Sony in that respect.

Also AFAIK it was SEGA of Japan who forced SOA to launch Saturn early in America; Tom would've never willingly chosen to destroy relationships with retailers if he had any say in the matter. He's a marketing & sales guy, after all: strong retail relationships are his lifeblood.

Going early was SOA idea, and they should have picked a better month like Aug with far more software ready and it was also closer to the so-called original date and so wouldn't have caused quite so much havoc with launch plans and spending

I wonder why you won't go the PS2 route a system that was hard to program for... A system that didn't launch with any SONY sport games, cost more than some of it main rivals and compared to its rivals the USA launch line up was lacking. The Game Cube was easier to work on and so was the Xbox - A system that not only had DVD but also the best GPU in the business, exclusive sports game and in Halo one of the best launch games ever and like with how many 3rd party games looked and run better on the PS1 Vs Saturn the same was true for the Xbox vs PS2.

Did it matter ?
Nah I don't think that's the case of me not acknowledging any of their 3d games. We're just talking about the bias towards 3d then in general. Geometric Crusher thinks it wasn't as much of a factor and I think it was more.

But hey since you typed all that:

That's true they did go in well on the 3d in it's own right but I'm seeing some killer ip's that were left on the table. Showcase is a useful word, here.

Shinobi could have been a showcase, but it was made, so it wasn't. Sonic could have been a showcase, but it was not made, so it wasn't.

Panzer Dragoon 1 for instance was a proper showcase, but it was a sort of odd ip without instant appeal, and it wasn't till the second one truly commanding attention that the ip was established. They could have come with Thunder Blade, Afterburner, or even space harrier. Either in place of PD or alongside it.

The identity of the saturn was colored a lot by the arcade ports and I don't think that was for the best. If it had been more identified with the strong genesis ip's in that first 18 months, that may have helped.

Take daytona since you mentioned it - They tout this arcade experience at home, but they end up with that saturn version and it's a real bad look. Meanwhile sony shows off convincing 3d arcade games with easy ports from much weaker hardare. doh. Daytona was the face of saturn because there was no sonic, when you think about it.
It came across that way as when SEGA was showing off the Saturn to Japan in June of 1994 at the Game Show, it even had a whole section dubbed virtual 3D world and that was even in the flyer that came with the launch Saturn too so to focus on Shinobi seems a bit lame. It also seems a little cheap to say all Saturn identity was over Arcade ports when SEGA was giving Panzer Dragoon its biggest budget to any game in its history, pushing Clockwork Knight hard in the build up to the launch of the Saturn, along with Victor Goal and it wasn't like PS fans would tell us how wonderful Tekken or RR was. Arcade graphics and ports back then were a great way to show off a console



You make a good point about Sonic, but that was SOA cock up and speaking off SEGA America had they dropped the 32X in 1994. Then the Saturn would have been playing host to 3D polygon games like Virtual Racing Deluxe, Star Wars Arcade and then latter on Metal Head and Stellar Assault and they would have looked and run better on the Saturn given the Saturn was better and even its SH-2's faster

Please.. don't hit back with how Virtual Racing was on the Saturn, if would have been a totally different story had the CS team inside SEGA handled the VR port on the Saturn. So much of the problems and issues of Saturn launch in the USA go back to the 32X and SOA putting all its egg's in the 32X basket and spiting SEGA developer resources and budgets

But like I say, the real battle wasn't with SONY, it had the better hardware, tools and support, the battle SEGA could and should have won was with the N64
 
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They were mediocre and have aged worse than Banjo Kazooie. From a modern lens they do all suck. Also, forget Sega for a moment. Saturn received the only good version of Earthworm Jim 2 which was a great follow up to the Genesis king. Meanwhile, N64's Earthworm Jim 3D was so bad it killed the IP.

Earthworm Jim 2 was a MegaDrive game that just got ported up. The only examples of 3D platformers I can think of on Saturn are Croc (awful tank controls) and Burning Rangers (the worst game Sonic Team have made and a huge disappointment at the time).

Mario 64, barring some camera quirks, was absolutely incredible in 1996 and considering Mario Odyssey keeps most of its mechanics is testament to how much Miyamoto's team got right in the first attempt.

Kids today still play it and speed run it, it's eternal.
 
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Earthworm Jim 2 was a MegaDrive game that just got ported up.

Mario 64, barring some camera quirks was absolutely incredible in 1996 and considering Mario Odyssey keeps most of its mechanics is testament to how much Miyamoto's team got right in the first attempt.

Kids today still play it and speed run it, it's eternal.
Earthworm Jim 2's awesomeness was downported to every platform except Saturn due to hardware limitations. Mario 64 barring the camera is a slippery floaty collection of 3D platforming sections. Mario Odyssey is a testament to the fact that 3D level design and precise controls are skills that Nintendo did not have at the time. I do not much care for Nintendo's autistic gender-confused audience identifying with it.
 
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Outside of Sonic SEGA did not really have mainstream IPs. Most of the best selling Genesis games were third party. I even think the constant Sonic releases caused franchise fatigue.

Hmmm. Let's see. Som

edit: oops accidentally tagged you. Just was starting a reply above^^^^


I'm not going to even bother to debate your wind up drivel


Going early was SOA idea, and they should have picked a better month like Aug with far more software ready and it was also closer to the so-called original date and so wouldn't have caused quite so much havoc with launch plans and spending

I wonder why you won't go the PS2 route a system that was hard to program for... A system that didn't launch with any SONY sport games, cost more than some of it main rivals and compared to its rivals the USA launch line up was lacking. The Game Cube was easier to work on and so was the Xbox - A system that not only had DVD but also the best GPU in the business, exclusive sports game and in Halo one of the best launch games ever and like with how many 3rd party games looked and run better on the PS1 Vs Saturn the same was true for the Xbox vs PS2.

Did it matter ?

It came across that way as when SEGA was showing off the Saturn to Japan in June of 1994 at the Game Show, it even had a whole section dubbed virtual 3D world and that was even in the flyer that came with the launch Saturn too so to focus on Shinobi seems a bit lame. It also seems a little cheap to say all Saturn identity was over Arcade ports when SEGA was giving Panzer Dragoon its biggest budget to any game in its history, pushing Clockwork Knight hard in the build up to the launch of the Saturn, along with Victor Goal and it wasn't like PS fans would tell us how wonderful Tekken or RR was. Arcade graphics and ports back then were a great way to show off a console



You make a good point about Sonic, but that was SOA cock up and speaking off SEGA America had they dropped the 32X in 1994. Then the Saturn would have been playing host to 3D polygon games like Virtual Racing Deluxe, Star Wars Arcade and then latter on Metal Head and Stellar Assault and they would have looked and run better on the Saturn given the Saturn was better and even its SH-2's faster

Please.. don't hit back with how Virtual Racing was on the Saturn, if would have been a totally different story had the CS team inside SEGA handled the VR port on the Saturn. So much of the problems and issues of Saturn launch in the USA go back to the 32X and SOA putting all its egg's in the 32X basket and spiting SEGA developer resources and budgets

But like I say, the real battle wasn't with SONY, it had the better hardware, tools and support, the battle SEGA could and should have won was with the N64

Partial reply here till I have a minute but I am actually quite fond of Virtual Racing on saturn. :lollipop_grinning_sweat:

I know it was fucked up technically but I think the way it was expanded so much from the arcade version was a great example of what I had wished some of those arcade ports would have been. In fact, I thought I still had a copy for many years. After talking about it on here maybe a year ago, I wanted to play it and I remembered what happened to that old copy. So I picked one up right off ebay!
 
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Outside of Sonic SEGA did not really have mainstream IPs. Most of the best selling Genesis games were third party. I even think the constant Sonic releases caused franchise fatigue.
Now you understand why SS was not a commercial success
Maybe Sonic couldn't help the Saturn because Sega milked the character to exhaustion from 1991 to 1994

Today, Sega has, in addition to Sonic, other franchises capable of reaching 1 million copies. In the Genesis era, they did not inherit any IP from Master System. It was up to Sega and Genesis to create their own Blockbusters, which died in the 16-bit era: Sonic, Puyo Puyo, and Streets of Rage. this explains the Saturn and Dreamcast.
 
Now you understand why SS was not a commercial success
Maybe Sonic couldn't help the Saturn because Sega milked the character to exhaustion from 1991 to 1994

Today, Sega has, in addition to Sonic, other franchises capable of reaching 1 million copies. In the Genesis era, they did not inherit any IP from Master System. It was up to Sega and Genesis to create their own Blockbusters, which died in the 16-bit era: Sonic, Puyo Puyo, and Streets of Rage. this explains the Saturn and Dreamcast.
Dreamcast had new SEGA IPs with fanfare but PS2 hype was too strong. Outside of a handful of arcade porting successes SEGA was going through an auteur phase during Saturn era.
 
Dreamcast had new SEGA IPs with fanfare
new IP doesn't have the same strength as an old and famous IP
the best selling game on the Dreamcast is Sonic, one IP does not maintain one console. A console needs at least 8 exclusive or non-exclusive IPs with sales above 1 million in the first year, the Dreamcast achieved 4 and Saturn 2.
 
new IP doesn't have the same strength as an old and famous IP
the best selling game on the Dreamcast is Sonic, one IP does not maintain one console. A console needs at least 8 exclusive or non-exclusive IPs with sales above 1 million in the first year, the Dreamcast achieved 4 and Saturn 2.
Shenmue and Crazy Taxi sold better than Sonic Adventure 2 and I have yet to meet anyone that doesn't view Jet Set Radio and House of the Dead 2 with some reverence. (Original Saturn port job should not even qualify as a game and fortunately people were not suckered into purchasing it.) If PS2's shadow was not looming over Dreamcast it would likely have hit those metrics.

P.S. SEGA also had big hits in its exclusive sport genre offerings during Dreamcast era though I never personally bothered with them.
 
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Now you understand why SS was not a commercial success
Maybe Sonic couldn't help the Saturn because Sega milked the character to exhaustion from 1991 to 1994

Today, Sega has, in addition to Sonic, other franchises capable of reaching 1 million copies. In the Genesis era, they did not inherit any IP from Master System. It was up to Sega and Genesis to create their own Blockbusters, which died in the 16-bit era: Sonic, Puyo Puyo, and Streets of Rage. this explains the Saturn and Dreamcast.
Also Sonic games were never as good as Mario.

I had and liked both Genesis and SNES (and of course old ass NES too). Mario platfomers were 10x better than Sonic. All Sonic had were good fast graphics and nice music tunes. Game was actually junk, boring, hardly any secrets, and the game focused on speed. Beat the level faster and get more pts. Comparing Sonic 1 to SMW is like night and day. So when the time came in the mid 90s when 3D platformers were popping up (Mario 64 being a huge hit), I doubt a Saturn Sonic platformer would make a difference.

For all the gamers, was avoiding Saturn due to no Sonic, and getting a DC because of Sonic Adventure really a deciding factor? Probably not.

Also, Sega was spread too thin across a million arcade games, their shallow home ports, and lots of other home games. They seemed to have the programming and studio capacity to churn out lots of Sega games, but they always seemed more shallow than Nintendo games EXCEPT their Sega Sports on Genesis were often good and more realistic in gameplay and teams/players than your typical Nintendo cartoony sports game which probably has Mario in it.
 
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Also Sonic games were never as good as Mario.

I had and liked both Genesis and SNES (and of course old ass NES too). Mario platfomers were 10x better than Sonic. All Sonic had were good fast graphics and nice music tunes. Game was actually junk, boring, hardly any secrets, and the game focused on speed. Beat the level faster and get more pts. Comparing Sonic 1 to SMW is like night and day. So when the time came in the mid 90s when 3D platformers were popping up (Mario 64 being a huge hit), I doubt a Saturn Sonic platformer would make a difference.

For all the gamers, was avoiding Saturn due to no Sonic, and getting a DC because of Sonic Adventure really a deciding factor? Probably not.

I remember playing Mario World at a friend's and enjoying it, but then playing Somic at my causin's and being blown away by the visuals and speed, it was gorgeous and I just had to have a MegaDrive.

As for Dreamcast, yes, I remember seeing Sonic Adventure in a magazine and thinking again it looked gorgeous, and clearly so much effort had been put in. That and SoulCalibur sold me.


qaE0Mr2j87DzbzMc.jpeg


Seeing this in mid 1998… WOWZERS!
 
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I remember playing Mario World at a friend's and enjoying it, but then playing Somic at my causin's and being blown away by the visuals and speed, it was gorgeous and I just had to have a MegaDrive.

As for Dreamcast, yes, I remember seeing Sonic Adventure in a magazine and thinking again it looked gorgeous, and clearly so much effort had been put in. That and SoulCalibur sold me.

Yeah I don't think it was immediately obvious at the time that Mario world was better than Sonic 1. That's the consensus looking back but it was divided at the time.
 
I remember playing Mario World at a friend's and enjoying it, but then playing Somic at my causin's and being blown away by the visuals and speed, it was gorgeous and I just had to have a MegaDrive.

As for Dreamcast, yes, I remember seeing Sonic Adventure in a magazine and thinking again it looked gorgeous, and clearly so much effort had been put in. That and SoulCalibur sold me.
Soul Calibur was just a slightly smoothed out port of Namco System 12 (suped up PS1 from which Tekken 3 was ported) arcade version in essence so I am still puzzled about it being a high mark. Barely a year later a much higher fidelity Tekken Tag Tournament port from the same arcade system came out with PS2.
 
Soul Calibur was just a slightly smoothed out port of Namco System 12 (suped up PS1 from which Tekken 3 was ported) arcade version in essence so I am still puzzled about it being a high mark. Barely a year later a much higher fidelity Tekken Tag Tournament port from the same arcade system came out with PS2.


Soul Cal really blew up for whatever reason. I would say "slightly smoothed out" is underselling it. Dreamcast delivered a huge graphical punch over ps1 and Soul Cal/Sonic were the bests showcases. Plus it felt different enough from the pack that it caught on well beyond the usual fighting game audience.
 
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Soul Calibur was just a slightly smoothed out port of Namco System 12 (suped up PS1 from which Tekken 3 was ported) arcade version in essence so I am still puzzled about it being a high mark. Barely a year later a much higher fidelity Tekken Tag Tournament port from the same arcade system came out with PS2.


Slightly smoothed out my arse, it was a generational leap!

 
Soul Cal really blew up for whatever reason. I would say "slightly smoothed out" is underselling it. Dreamcast delivered a huge graphical punch over ps1 and Soul Cal/Sonic were the bests showcases. Plus it felt different enough from the pack that it caught on well beyond the usual fighting game audience.
I guess, but it could have probably been downported to PS1 with greater fanfare. Hell, I did not even know Soul Edge had a sequel until I looked at the back of a Soul Calibur II box sitting on store shelves. I completely missed the boat on Dreamcast. I only own ports of its games.
 
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Also Sonic games were never as good as Mario.

I had and liked both Genesis and SNES (and of course old ass NES too). Mario platfomers were 10x better than Sonic. All Sonic had were good fast graphics and nice music tunes. Game was actually junk, boring, hardly any secrets, and the game focused on speed.
Sonic 1991 is a good game, good music, good graphics, I like it. Mario is the big dog, it was not easy to challenge Mario, so I ask you, except Sonic, which other 16-bit platform game (except DKC) has the quality of Mario? That's why Sonic was and still is the face of SEGA.
For all the gamers, was avoiding Saturn due to no Sonic, and getting a DC because of Sonic Adventure really a deciding factor? Probably not.
well SS had a base of 2M in America, DC had 5M, this means that Sonic attracted these 3M buyers
Also, Sega was spread too thin across a million arcade games, their shallow home ports, and lots of other home games. They seemed to have the programming and studio capacity to churn out lots of Sega games, but they always seemed more shallow than Nintendo games EXCEPT their Sega Sports on Genesis were often good and more realistic in gameplay and teams/players than your typical Nintendo cartoony sports game which probably has Mario in it.
low budget, a sin that still remains with Sega.

Metroid 1986 has a more intelligent design than all of Sega's 2D games, which were all about walking from left to right, throwing a sprite at an enemy, jumping over an obstacle, and repeating this for 40 minutes. The short games were bad for Sega's image. Buying Manx TT was like being ripped off because the game had two levels.
 
I guess, but it could have probably been downported to PS1 with greater fanfare. Hell, I did not even know Soul Edge had a sequel until I looked at the back of a Soul Calibur II box sitting on store shelves. I completely missed the boat on Dreamcast. I only own ports of its games.

Maybe ps1. I'm going from memory and I only came across the arcade cab in one place - I believe it was on system 22 and was still a little rough looking on that. I'm sure it would have done really well on PS1 because it was a huge leap in gameplay over soul edge.
 
I wonder why you won't go the PS2 route a system that was hard to program for... A system that didn't launch with any SONY sport games, cost more than some of it main rivals and compared to its rivals the USA launch line up was lacking. The Game Cube was easier to work on and so was the Xbox - A system that not only had DVD but also the best GPU in the business, exclusive sports game and in Halo one of the best launch games ever and like with how many 3rd party games looked and run better on the PS1 Vs Saturn the same was true for the Xbox vs PS2.

It all comes down games, great games.

PS2 had more great games than Xbox. They saw Halo on Xbox at launch, then saw GTA3, MGS2, Devil May Cry and Gran Turismo 3 on PS2. 4 great games to 1, no contest.

N64 had more great games than Saturn. Go back and read magazines from 1996, Mario 64 was universally acclaimed as a must have, the "greatest game ever made", it set people's imaginations alight. Saturn didn't have a game like that. Then a couple of months later they're seeing Zelda and getting the same feeling.

Graphics are secondary.

 
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The short games were bad for Sega's image. Buying Manx TT was like being ripped off because the game had two levels.

That was a major issue leaning on the arcade ports. As time went by, bigger and more complex games were coming fast. That, and they were quickly scraping the barrel after VF/VC/Daytona/Sega Rally. Fighting Vipers and Manx were not exactly big events.... That's sort of what I'm getting at when I say the really strong association with the arcade ports was not for the best in the long run.
 
I'm not going to even bother to debate your wind up drivel


Going early was SOA idea, and they should have picked a better month like Aug with far more software ready and it was also closer to the so-called original date and so wouldn't have caused quite so much havoc with launch plans and spending

I'm pretty sure going early was SOJ's idea, not SOA's. If you have irrefutable proof that it was on SOA, then I'll accept that. However, I have seen quotes from Tom saying they did not have much confidence in Saturn for the West, and did not want to launch in May because the software wasn't ready.

Which checks out with the state of early Saturn releases from May to September, as barely any new games rolled out at the time, and titles like VF & Daytona were very buggy. SEGA were not ready for a September launch but the Japanese side did not care either way: they wanted a repeat of the Japanese launch and were growing worried about PS hype momentum in the West.

I wonder why you won't go the PS2 route a system that was hard to program for... A system that didn't launch with any SONY sport games, cost more than some of it main rivals and compared to its rivals the USA launch line up was lacking. The Game Cube was easier to work on and so was the Xbox - A system that not only had DVD but also the best GPU in the business, exclusive sports game and in Halo one of the best launch games ever and like with how many 3rd party games looked and run better on the PS1 Vs Saturn the same was true for the Xbox vs PS2.

PS2 was only more expensive than Dreamcast and GameCube; it was cheaper than OG Xbox because that required a $30 remote sold separately to enable DVD movie playback. There's no evidence OG Xbox was easier to work on than PS2 and I'd argue the lack of 3P support compared to PS2 suggests it wasn't monumentally easier. It was simply more familiar to PC devs like Bethesda already used to x86 architecture and had been making games on that for over a decade.

To many devs not from the PC scene, OG Xbox was just as esoteric to them as the PS2 seemed to various Western devs. Which is kind of another thing: most of the complaints PS2 was hard to develop for came from Western studios. They weren't used to programming in the same manner Japanese devs were; some Japanese devs even loved the Saturn and considered it easy to develop for, so the same applied with some of them towards PS2.

You're overselling the OG Xbox; it wasn't all-around more powerful than PS2, GameCube or even the Dreamcast in some areas, and I mentioned some of those earlier. The 64 MB RAM and 8 GB HDD really helped it in performance areas though. Its exclusive sports games meant shit for the American market because none of them gained traction compared to Madden, the 2K games, FIFA etc. all of which were on PS2 and where PS2 was the target platform. Halo was a strong launch game but so was Super Mario 64 and in both cases the respective systems lost a lot of steam shortly after launch because they couldn't match the variety & breadth of games on Sony's consoles.

Also the RenderWare engine helped make multiplatform support a lot easier that gen and many devs used it, even some Japanese one. So that mitigated many of the dev challenges on PS2 for devs until they got to learn the architecture better, so they could target more low-level optimizations.

Did it matter ?

Yes.

It came across that way as when SEGA was showing off the Saturn to Japan in June of 1994 at the Game Show, it even had a whole section dubbed virtual 3D world and that was even in the flyer that came with the launch Saturn too so to focus on Shinobi seems a bit lame. It also seems a little cheap to say all Saturn identity was over Arcade ports when SEGA was giving Panzer Dragoon its biggest budget to any game in its history, pushing Clockwork Knight hard in the build up to the launch of the Saturn, along with Victor Goal and it wasn't like PS fans would tell us how wonderful Tekken or RR was. Arcade graphics and ports back then were a great way to show off a console

Panzer Dragoon was a very arcade-style game so even if it wasn't first released in arcades, it came off as an arcade title. And like many of SEGA's arcade ports to Saturn that gen, ran into the problem of too little content for the price. If you played a game like Panzer Dragoon at a demo kiosk back in the day you basically got the full taste of the game in 5-10 minutes.

Sure you could master mechanics to increase score and get perfect runs but that as an appealing factor was starting to fall out of favor with gamers around the time. The reason why SEGA's arcade ports didn't do much for Saturn in the West (in Japan VF definitely did but it's prob also no coincidence that Saturn sales fell off hard there once the VF games started drying up with no Saturn port of VF3, while PS was getting stuff like Tekken 2, 3, Bushido Blade, Tobal No 2 etc.), is because they lacked sufficient amount of new content for home release.

Compare that to even early Namco arcade ports like Ridge Racer, Tekken, or even Cyber Sled which were stuffed with a lot of cool new additions just for the home ports, plus those games just had a style to them that was more appealing to Western players than SEGA's comparable titles like VF. Although, Daytona had a lot of style and was a juggernaut in arcades during the '90s, so the Saturn port SHOULD have been a major deal.

But oh if only SEGA didn't completely bungle the first impressions with a bad port short on any new content!
 
And like many of SEGA's arcade ports to Saturn that gen, ran into the problem of too little content for the price.

This was a very common complaint about many many otherwise good games at the time. Like everyone was very impressed with jumping flash, but oof it was over so fast. Ridge racer sorta had 1.5 tracks. Destruction derby was just a continuous loop of a dead simple gran prix. It happened a lot. Something like warhawk was considered a properly full game at that time and it was like 6 levels iirc.
 
It all comes down games, great games.
actually everything is about graphics, great games is a euphemism for graphics
Don't be fooled, if the PS2/ps1 had lost its ability to surprise people it would have died just like the Saturn and Dreamcast.

When N64 launched, its fighting and racing games were not impressive, Tomb Raider and Crash were an option to Mario 64, and quality increased in the following games.

When the Xbox launched, despite its power, the PS2 had the best graphics in several games.
Gran Turismo 3, Jak, Dark Alliance, Devil May Cry, MGS 2, and GTA 3 were attractive games for the PS2. The PS2 games also had better artistic choices.

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2x was inferior to Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 but the Xbox had Halo and Doa 3- PS2 never reached that level of quality. The PS2's quality steadily increased from 2002 onward, neutralizing the Xbox's power. But after Morrowind and Splinter Cell in late 2002, Xbox's power was undeniable however ps2 had 40 million units sold.
 
I've found real CRT footage to show it's not the shader/emulator overcompensating or modifying anything to fix it. Sadly other footage he has for games like Sega Rally is much older so it's not as nice quality, but you can still see this. Check them cop car windows:

It's true other connection types wouldn't do this, devs kept that in mind hence things like the intro missing a windshield before the bullets fly to show characters in the car clear to all players. The notorious Tunnel B1, not as nice footage but it sure beats raw pixels:

A screenshot for those who don't wanna watch a video looking for transparency, the mesh is 100% invisible (mind the Model 2 also only had (fine) mesh transparency and did some things different, like the missing windshield it's only a frame on the door window):
Screenshot-350.png

PS: VF/Daytona as the face of Saturn (still for hardcore haters, never mind then) after VC/2, Sega Rally, VF Remix/2 (or random ok stuff like Hang On) vs weaker board PS ports is another (Sony) marketing success (gaming/mainstream media covered it & little after).


Will say, that you can't separate 5th-gen 3D games from their CRTs. The CRT is basically part of their art style.

In many ways the games that were popular back then are still popular today.

The appeal was newly immersive worlds to escape into and that's why the likes of 3D Mario, Zelda, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy and Harry Potter were huge during the 5th gen and are huge today.

People would have you believe that if Bernie Stolar had allowed porting of 2D shmups that it would be a different story, people didn't want them then just like they don't want them today.

Thing tho is Bernie didn't just shut out 2D shmups. He rejected most JRPGs too, and that genre was finally seeing big growth in the West thanks to Final Fantasy VII. Deep Fear never got an American release despite survival-horror also being big there by that time.

Yeah that's the best starting point, hardware is set in stone, Saturn is Saturn.

In order of priority

1. Investment in dev tools, they're way behind Sony in this regard, something like SGL needs to be available by end of 1993, not 1995

2. Yuji Naka, you're making a 3D Sonic whether you like it or not. Console needs to launch with Sonic Jam, and a game with several levels based off Sonic Jam's Sonic World engine needs to be ready by Christmas 1996

3. Instead of 32X fob Calinske off with a couple more SVP games (Star Wars being one).

4. Launch western Saturn in September as originally planned

5. Yu Suzuki, after Virtua Fighter 2 no more derivative cash-ins (Kids/Fighting Vipers/Megamix), move straight onto Project Berkely, Saturn needs a fully 3D adventure exclusive by Christmas 1997 (otherwise RetroGamingUK is trading his in for a PlayStation with Tomb Raider II)

6. Tetsuya Mizuguchi, after Sega Rally no more arcade racers, I want you to make a big driving game with a career mode based on the Sega Rally engine, it needs to release before Gran Turismo.


Result: 30 million units sold as of 2000

1: Agreed, but SGL wouldn't have been ready by EOY 1993 because that's when SEGA went into panic mode to redesign parts of the Saturn. From all accounts, part of this was adding the 2nd SH2, and another part was in adding/retuning the VDP2. Unfortunately development on the SCU DSP basically slowed to a stop during that period (it was never really finished).

SGL by EOY 1994 seems more likely

2: Yeah, Yuji Naka was on an ego trip back then. If SEGA had kept the Japanese Sonic Team in better communication with SEGA Technical Institute from the beginning, though, they probably wouldn't have put Naka in a situation of being surprised his engine was being used without his blessing near the 11th hour. That way, even if STI were still forced to ditch that engine, they'd of had a lot more time to adjust, and crew members wouldn't have fallen ill with life-threatening pneumonia due to absolutely extreme crunch conditions.

3: 32X should've 100% been ditched as a concept, and they should've gone with a SVP-only cartridge instead. The DSP was still capable enough, even if not quite on the level of 2x SH2s.

4: Yep

5: Also agreed.

6: Well, SEGA Touring Car Championship was somewhat a shift into that direction, although still leaned very arcade-like. I'm not 100% sure if SEGA needed or could've done a GT-style game; those car licenses aren't cheap and SEGA didn't have Sony's level of capital. Also the N64 did very well in America without having a GT-style racer.

Maybe what SEGA could've done, was make something spiritually in that style but sticking with their original IP. Maybe something like an Outrun spin-off, with just a single car manufacturer (to keep dev costs down), or go with a completely non-licensed approached i.e Outrunners.

Fighting Vipers/Megamix are more innovative and directed by Hiroshi Takaoka. Tomb Raider II was polarizing and far from an ideal sequel.

How is that possible when TR2 sold more than the original?

I think you're using a modern POV and hindsight to judge the game outside of the context of the time it was released. Most TR fans LOVED Tomb Raider 2; even today the vast majority of diehards consider it a very worthy sequel or superior to the original.

The only way that SEGA could have been helped, is by finding a way to prevent Sony from buying the entirety of the good third party games.

It's not like SEGA had a shitty product and shitty games, far from it. A ton of Saturn games reviewed extremely well, just as well as PS1 games. And the consoles were close enough. You can have few missteps, it is not going to turn a good product with good games in a complete disaster (see PS3 for this).

However, if your main competitor starts buying all the third party games that could drive your sales, you are fucked.

Going into 1996 the MegaDrive and Game Gear were still relevant. They could have kept these two going to make some easy money.

Sony didn't buy most of the good 3P games tho. Most of those devs just decided the PS1 was better serving them than the Saturn, especially outside of Japan. So, they chose to focus their releases there. Simple as that.

I think the issue with looking at only review scores, is that this gen we've seen a lot of Xbox games like, say, Pentiment, review strongly, yet they did nothing in sales or bringing people over to the platform. A lot of the glowing reviews for Saturn exclusives back in the day either came from SEGA-biased magazines, or multiplat magazines that leaned heavily SEGA (i.e GameFan), or from neutral magazines that focused more on the technical aspects of things vs, say, breadth of content. Next Generation was something like that in their focus on Saturn reviews, for example.

Saturn & PS1 may've been close enough on paper, but on practice they weren't. For most 3P devs, if you could get a PS1 game to 100% in, say, 10 months start to finish, working at the exact same pace you were probably lucky to get a Saturn game to 70% in that same time frame. The amount of effort and dollars required to get results on Saturn on par with PS1 was just not worth it as the gen went on, for a growing number of 3P (especially those in the West).

Sony didn't really start locking up bigger 3P exclusives through deals until 1997. Prior to that, it was very light (3P timed exclusives/exclusivity deals) and SEGA did some of that themselves i.e Tomb Raider launching first on Saturn as a timed exclusivity deal. Once SEGA basically killed the Saturn in 1997, massive numbers of 3P devs started cancelling projects or started converting focus over to the PS1, including longtime SEGA supporters like Working Designs. Sony locked up certain number of exclusives like Tomb Raider 2/3, RE2/3 etc. but that was probably less due to Saturn and more due to N64 and the possibility of an early 6th-gen SEGA console i.e Dreamcast (which did happen, with its 1998 launch in Japan).

Otherwise, they were just getting defacto exclusives because most 3P felt they didn't need anything else besides PlayStation to be financially successful. Also, no, MegaDrive & Game Gear were more than dead by 1996. Have you read the leaked FY '97 SEGA of America documents? Have you seen just how stacked their warehouses were with unsold Genesis, 32X, Game Gear etc. inventory even in 1995? Both for hardware and games?

This was a very common complaint about many many otherwise good games at the time. Like everyone was very impressed with jumping flash, but oof it was over so fast. Ridge racer sorta had 1.5 tracks. Destruction derby was just a continuous loop of a dead simple gran prix. It happened a lot. Something like warhawk was considered a properly full game at that time and it was like 6 levels iirc.

I'm not necessarily sure just how common a complaint that was; partly because I was a kid back then and didn't pay attention to that stuff (guess most of those arguments were online and we didn't have a computer at the time). But also because from the magazines I read, that didn't necessary come off as a complaint to the point of being derisive or causing reviewers to knock off points (in most cases).

Also gotta remember, most people were coming off a 4th gen where most of the games they played were also pretty short...once you started to master the game mechanics and learned the game. Otherwise, you were taking a lot more time to finish them until your skills got better, and a lot of early 5th gen was a transitionary period where gamers still played games that way. Would also say, people were just very lenient on length of most games because 3D was just so new for the time.

The problem with SEGA was, their Saturn ports back then were short and light on content even by standards of the time. And since some of them were very prolific arcade games, then home players had already played those games (sometimes to point of exhaustion) in local arcades, so the home ports usually didn't offer anything new to play or master outside of the content they already played (and likely mastered) in the arcade, only now with arcade-accurate graphics (or in case of Model 2 ports, worst graphics in the Saturn version).
 
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