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[cartman414]

Plus, it also didn't help the Saturn itself was a confusing machine for developers. John Linneman at DF did an episode on it for DF Retro and did a deep dive. It was made more as a machine that could do 2D games really well, but it made it difficult to make 3D games for it, which is where the industry was headed once N64/ Mario 64 hit and it was clear 3D was the new thing. But the system was rushed and they weren't forward thinking enough to see how important 3D would be. So, that didn't help! Also the controller was just a bummer and nothing special.

Not sure how it was in the US, but in the UK games shops like EB, Virgin and HMV played a huge part in determining what was seen as 'cool'.

The Mega CD and 32X must have burned the shops to some extent, as they seemed to favour Sony from the start. I recall for ages at HMV they had a Saturn with Streetfighter the Movie and a PS with Tekken - with the Saturn's shitty spongey controller next to the precise PS's one.

EB had videos of gameplay on the PS of Resident Evil abd F1 for ages too - and didn't bother with Sega exclusives.

I got a PS and clearly it won out pretty quickly, but the Saturn was doomed from the start - which then in turn doomed the Dreamcast.

I hope you're both talking about the initial Western region controllers. The "real" Saturn controllers are S-Tier. And the PS controllers were mid for years.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

People from the US don't realize the huge gap there was back then, and still exists to some extent, between the average wage in the US and in Europe. If the Master System was such a huge success in Europe, it is certainly not because people thought that the console was better than the MegaDrive... We just couldn't afford such expensive consoles.

NES launched during the peak of the ZX Spectrum era.

Master System launched a little later when Spectrum was dying down and was able to gain a good retail presence via Mastertronic.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

I hope you're both talking about the initial Western region controllers. The "real" Saturn controllers are S-Tier. And the PS controllers were mid for years.

I had both, got the S tier later once it was basically dead. Doesn't matter anyway. There's no need to fanboy, I never have/ have never defended PS controllers.

 

[cartman414]

I had both, got the S tier later once it was basically dead. Doesn't matter anyway. There's no need to fanboy, I never have/ have never defended PS controllers.

It's the other poster that mentioned the PS controller.

And not to fanboy so much as to inquire about specifics on which Saturn controller. The first western Saturn pad wasn't so much "nothing special" as it was an unneeded regression from the Genesis 6-button pad.

 

[cireza]

wrong, both Sega Saturn and PS1 had the same budget despite data suggesting that the Sega Saturn project cost 20% more.

Some people resort to budget data, others lived through that era and witnessed what happened.

I have technical arguments but I prefer not to share, the Saturn was at its limit since 1995,

Don't share it, it is BS anyway. Again, people with eyes are able to see the boundaries that were pushed on this console between its launch and 1997. Obviously, the ceiling wasn't reached in 1995.

 

[Ozzie666]

Totally biased usual narrative. Sony tried pulling a Daniel Plainview on them first.

The Weird History Of The Super NES CD-ROM, Nintendo's Most Notorious Vaporware - Kotaku

Nintendo never released a CD-ROM gaming system. But for a while in the early 1990s, it flirted with the idea. That protracted will-they-won’t-they romance

kotaku.com

Sony might have had no Nintendo to contend with. No Switch, all we have left are super spendy console boxes, hooray.

I never said Sony didn't deserve it or wasn't the bad guy. But they way Nintendo did it was pretty savage and unprofessional. Don't worry we will get to one super spendy box soon enough

 

[Ozzie666]

Its also needs to be noted that Mortal Kombat 3 came out on playstation only shortly after launch and it was a VERY BIG DEAL in the states at the time which Sony bought as an exclusive.. released in October 1995.
Ultimate MK3 on Saturn which was a great port didn't come out until a year later.
After that a much inferior MK trilogy port later proved how little publishers cared to put any effort into Saturn ports near the end.

I can say in my area and for me personally MK3 for PS1 was a very big deal. Other than the loading issues, extremely good version. Especially compared to the 16 bit. Most my group got PS1 on launch day waiting for this one. Some of us had Saturn's but they were collecting dust. Mind you in my area we were still enjoying MK2 on 32X and a decent Virtua Fighrter port too

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

Really wish Deep Fear on the Saturn became a lot more successful and got a bunch of sequels. Wouldn't be a true rival to Resident Evil but perhaps good enough to be close. It's at least more interesting or have the potential to be a more interesting horror series than Silent Hill and Dead Space.

 

[cartman414]

I never said Sony didn't deserve it or wasn't the bad guy. But they way Nintendo did it was pretty savage and unprofessional. Don't worry we will get to one super spendy box soon enough

True, but you said Nintendo created their worst enemy. In all likelihood Sony was going to force its way in either way. That licensing backdoor? Sony would have gotten in and taken any CD-ROM game royalties. Square's games, which were already big sellers in the homeland, would have been among the first, knowing Square's keen interest in the format. And then FF7 wouldn't have been seen as the turning point, at least as far as Square jumping ship would have went.

 

[nkarafo]

NES launched during the peak of the ZX Spectrum era.

Master System launched a little later when Spectrum was dying down and was able to gain a good retail presence via Mastertronic.

In Greece we didn't have an official Nintendo distributor until mid 1991 (Sega was also late in 1989).

A bit later they would advertise all three Nintendo consoles together (NES, Game Boy, SNES). Sega did the same with their trio of consoles (Master System, Game Gear, Mega Drive).

They would push their "new" 8bit consoles as the "classics that took the world by storm" and their 16bit consoles as "high tech for the demanding players". For most Greeks, all these were new. We had absolutely no idea the NES was a decade old hardware at that point. For us, the oldest one was basically the Master System, which i remember seeing in magazines in 1989.

Pretty much all gamers then had home computers. Most had a Spectrum or Amstrad and a lucky few had an Amiga. But most had a slow, annoying, ugly 8bit computer. So it wasn't hard for Nintendo to sell the NES in 1991 here since it was still an upgrade over those machines. 8bit consoles were like a good middle ground for gamers who couldn't afford the 16bit consoles.

So for us there wasn't a 3rd and 4th generation. Both were merged into a single one as 8 and 16bit consoles co-existed until they faded away almost simultaneously, not before the N64 appeared. The NES and Master System would still be in the shops, in ads and in brochures, along with their 16bit big brothers, the whole time.

 

[Team Andromeda]

The limit of the Saturn was not reached. In the latest games we saw great improvements and features become more frequent, like proper fade-in of 3D scenery, excellent FMV quality, more stable framerates, more elaborated 3D models. The later sports game published by SEGA are super smooth, clean and have excellent gameplay to name only those. Riven has fantastic FMV quality (full screen I think ?).

There were some games that were pushing the Saturn very hard, you're right to say Tomb Raider wasn't one of them

I would say games like Daytona USA CE, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Lost Bronx, Grandia, Dark Saviour, Burning Rangers, World League Soccer 98, Fighters Megamix, and Quake were banging on the hardware.

I also think Layer Section 2 doesn't get enough credit, while the PS1 game looks better, in terms of polygons, the Saturn version is right up there
I remember back inthe day when CVG was playing the coin-up version of Raystorm they said it had some of the best 3D graphics they've ever seen coming off the PS board

Also, you're right, some even say the Saturn version of Riven is better and some of the graphics in the sports games on Saturn had fab 3D.












[h3][/h3]

 

[RetroGamingUK]

That's mostly because Sony's PR and marketing campaign for the original PS in Europe, not only UK, was massive, cynical, aggressive and striking like no other effort ever made in the history of gaming. They covered every surface they could with PS in mags, billboards, and on TV. In comparison, Sega did less than fart in the wind, and Nintendo thought that simply showing Mario would be enough to win a continent where Sega and home computers had barely registered its existence before.

Sony bought everything they could, and it's not malicious to think that they brute-forced their presence in every store they could as well.
More-or-less official PlayStation-only mags sprouted like mushrooms in the span of a year. It was impossible to not know about the PS. Sega, on their part, didn't have a plan. They had arcade ports in an age when arcade in Europe was already fading fast.

The irony is that the independent press was all about the Saturn in the beginning. Home Virtua Fighter was hailed as the second coming. I'll always remember EDGE closing their VF review with "Over to you, Sony". How the turntables…

Saturn's UK adverts all pretty much had the same theme

Basically someone Japanese taunting us that they've had the game for ages and that UK would have to catch up in order to match their skill.

They were great for showing gameplay, but highlighting the lag between Japanese and UK releases probably didn't go down too well and this style probably would have been better suited to Dreamcast with its focus on online competetive multiplayer

 

[RetroGamingUK]

[h3][/h3]

This demonstrates the importance on animation, the J League game looks pleasing while World League Soccer looks horrendous…



…still, it's not as horrendous as this…

 

[SkylineRKR]

Its also needs to be noted that Mortal Kombat 3 came out on playstation only shortly after launch and it was a VERY BIG DEAL in the states at the time which Sony bought as an exclusive.. released in October 1995.
Ultimate MK3 on Saturn which was a great port didn't come out until a year later.
After that a much inferior MK trilogy port later proved how little publishers cared to put any effort into Saturn ports near the end.

I believe MK3 was the most succesful game of 1995 in the west. It was huge, PSX getting next-gen exclusivity on this one. It kind of surprised me when I received ads and it clearly stated MK3 would be only on PSX. I'm sure quite some gamers chose Playstation as their next console for this reason.

In hindsight the port wasn't even that great. It was good, but nowhere near as good as Arcade and DOS. And the 16-bit didn't suffer from load times and didn't render one character (Shang) essentially useless.

I bought it some time later when I had my PSX for a while.. and I was kind of indifferent on it. But to be honest I was kind of done with MK by then. I had more fun with it on my Genesis back in 1995.

UMK3 Saturn was rather disappointing too I might add. Its a good game on its own merits (probably the best classic MK ever) but the port was a lazy as fuck effort. The front end and menus is just ripped from PSX MK3, as it doesn't even say UMK3. They didn't even bother changing that. It was kind of jarring to see. Same loading problems as well while Saturn should have more memory. In theory it could've been released with a ROM cart like KOF 95. Who knows how good this version might've been then.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

I made a comparison to get the companies' perspectives. 32x launch, Saturn launch, PS1 launch, N64 launch.


The N64's launch was delayed. There's even a theory that Nintendo knew it was impossible for the console to come out in 1995 but did so to prevent consumers from buying PS1s/SATs. The N64 was designed to run SM64. The game's developer said "Releasing an unfinished product is pointless; people have eyes." Nintendo wanted to do a worldwide launch but declined because they knew there wouldn't be enough consoles for all retailers. It's very gratifying to see how much Nintendo cares about its games, that's right, after all, it's the games that symbolically fill Nintendo's stomach.


Let's take a look at the 32x.

Sega couldn't explain the rationale for this product; each explanation was less convincing than the last. that party with the journalists, bad idea
Tom Kalinske wanted a 2D console, but the 32X was presented as a 3D console, launch games were 3D, the company had a borderline.

PlayStation, on the other hand, studied the failures of the Jaguar and 3DO, and the success of the Sega Genesis. They understood that without games, a console is just a box. Some Sega fans say, "Sony bought third-party games." First, Sega knew since 1993 that Namco would be the driving force behind the PS1. Second, Sony injected money into tiny studios, and these studios made advanced games. Sony, roughly speaking, founded these studios. Third, Sega also bought exclusivity. 1995 ps1 games were mature 3D games, this made the PS1 look pleasing to the eye. I accept no excuses, some 3DO games looked quite advanced while the initial Saturn games were probably low-budget games, it is clear that Sega did not know that people had eyes because they approved games like Virtual Hydelide and Cosmic Carnage, man Sega's failure was fair.

 

[Schnauzer]

Sega was doing what it could to lose people's trust. The back of the release US Saturn says it all. So many games on the box that never got released including Enternal Champions and a lot of Sports games that could have made a difference. In the end, Sega made sure the US game divisions could not compete with their Japanese counterpart. In the end… The library and consumer trust is what killed the Saturn.

 

[Ozzie666]

I made a comparison to get the companies' perspectives. 32x launch, Saturn launch, PS1 launch, N64 launch.


The N64's launch was delayed. There's even a theory that Nintendo knew it was impossible for the console to come out in 1995 but did so to prevent consumers from buying PS1s/SATs. The N64 was designed to run SM64. The game's developer said "Releasing an unfinished product is pointless; people have eyes." Nintendo wanted to do a worldwide launch but declined because they knew there wouldn't be enough consoles for all retailers. It's very gratifying to see how much Nintendo cares about its games, that's right, after all, it's the games that symbolically fill Nintendo's stomach.


Let's take a look at the 32x.

Sega couldn't explain the rationale for this product; each explanation was less convincing than the last. that party with the journalists, bad idea
Tom Kalinske wanted a 2D console, but the 32X was presented as a 3D console, launch games were 3D, the company had a borderline.

PlayStation, on the other hand, studied the failures of the Jaguar and 3DO, and the success of the Sega Genesis. They understood that without games, a console is just a box. Some Sega fans say, "Sony bought third-party games." First, Sega knew since 1993 that Namco would be the driving force behind the PS1. Second, Sony injected money into tiny studios, and these studios made advanced games. Sony, roughly speaking, founded these studios. Third, Sega also bought exclusivity. 1995 ps1 games were mature 3D games, this made the PS1 look pleasing to the eye. I accept no excuses, some 3DO games looked quite advanced while the initial Saturn games were probably low-budget games, it is clear that Sega did not know that people had eyes because they approved games like Virtual Hydelide and Cosmic Carnage, man Sega's failure was fair.

To be fair, the 32X stormed out of the gate and by all accounts had a very promising USA launch in 1994. I believe even Trip was surprised at the bandiad. Those little SH2 chips doing wonders. Star Wars was a big hit. It just goes to show you, if had released 1 year earlier or even early 1994, it had a chance. Flawed design, flawed console for sure. It'a s shame Virtua Fighter released in the late section of 1995, because it was an excellent port. I'm a fan of the mushroom, especially for the Midway arcade ports which I think were the best of the era considering loading times too.

Obviously the split in resources, Japan and USA fighting was bad. But it's the post launch games is where it stumbled. I still believe the 32X had it's merits, if they had pushed the Saturn Back to 1996. One can argue a cheaper VDP ad-don device would have been better or an all in one device. Misunderstood and mismanaged device.

As for Nintendo, they probably knew exactly what they were doing as you said. Maybe not to that level of evil as you suggest. But if I recall Rare was developing KI on a system that was never going to be the final product. Just to be clear Nintendo has never cared about us the gamer, they care about their games, IP, protecting their IP and making money

 

[Team Andromeda]

This demonstrates the importance on animation, the J League game looks pleasing while World League Soccer looks horrendous…



…still, it's not as horrendous as this…

WLS 98 Soccer animation is great and it's running in one of the Saturn's highest res modes, plays a much better game than either World Wide Soccer 97/8 too That said, I still find Olympic Soccer the best 32-bit football game, just perfect playability.

Also, while the game isn't the best having a 12 player drunken session in NFL Quarterback Club 97/8 is one of the best laughs I can ever remember thanks to using 2 multi taps
[h3][/h3]

 

[diffusionx]

I made a comparison to get the companies' perspectives. 32x launch, Saturn launch, PS1 launch, N64 launch.


The N64's launch was delayed. There's even a theory that Nintendo knew it was impossible for the console to come out in 1995 but did so to prevent consumers from buying PS1s/SATs. The N64 was designed to run SM64. The game's developer said "Releasing an unfinished product is pointless; people have eyes." Nintendo wanted to do a worldwide launch but declined because they knew there wouldn't be enough consoles for all retailers. It's very gratifying to see how much Nintendo cares about its games, that's right, after all, it's the games that symbolically fill Nintendo's stomach.


Let's take a look at the 32x.

Sega couldn't explain the rationale for this product; each explanation was less convincing than the last. that party with the journalists, bad idea
Tom Kalinske wanted a 2D console, but the 32X was presented as a 3D console, launch games were 3D, the company had a borderline.

PlayStation, on the other hand, studied the failures of the Jaguar and 3DO, and the success of the Sega Genesis. They understood that without games, a console is just a box. Some Sega fans say, "Sony bought third-party games." First, Sega knew since 1993 that Namco would be the driving force behind the PS1. Second, Sony injected money into tiny studios, and these studios made advanced games. Sony, roughly speaking, founded these studios. Third, Sega also bought exclusivity. 1995 ps1 games were mature 3D games, this made the PS1 look pleasing to the eye. I accept no excuses, some 3DO games looked quite advanced while the initial Saturn games were probably low-budget games, it is clear that Sega did not know that people had eyes because they approved games like Virtual Hydelide and Cosmic Carnage, man Sega's failure was fair.

Sony also bought Psygnosis outright which is probably the most consequential acquisition in the game industry ever. Not only were the games great, they were technically advanced and also set the tone for the system in terms of marketing, advertising, art design, etc.

Not like Sega couldn't do something similar but as you point out they lacked the vision and foresight and fell back on what they knew which was Japanese games especially Japanese arcade games. Their games outside that wheelhouse was stuff that was more 16-bit oriented like Shinobi X and Bug.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Sony also bought Psygnosis outright which is probably the most consequential acquisition in the game industry ever. Not only were the games great, they were technically advanced and also set the tone for the system in terms of marketing, advertising, art design, etc.

Not like Sega couldn't do something similar but as you point out they lacked the vision and foresight and fell back on what they knew which was Japanese games especially Japanese arcade games. Their games outside that wheelhouse was stuff that was more 16-bit oriented like Shinobi X and Bug.

I'd argue that Virtua Fighter 2 and Sega Rally, both spawned from the arcades, were the 2 must have titles during Saturn's lifespan.

PlayStation wouldn't catch up until Tekken 3 and Gran Turismo until 1998 in these genres.

Before anyone asks. No, I don't like RPG games.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Misunderstood and mismanaged device.

The failure of the Sega 32X was the fault of third parties who didn't want to make games for it, and obviously Sega's fault for not making the 32X compatible with Saturn software.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

The failure of the Sega 32X was the fault of third parties who didn't want to make games for it, and obviously Sega's fault for not making the 32X compatible with Saturn software.

Sega should have consulted with third parties before going down that idiotic path.

I thought Mega CD was a waste of resources and consumer's money too.

 

[diffusionx]

I'd argue that Virtua Fighter 2 and Sega Rally, both spawned from the arcades, were the 2 must have titles during Saturn's lifespan.

PlayStation wouldn't catch up until Tekken 3 and Gran Turismo until 1998 in these genres.

Before anyone asks. No, I don't like RPG games.

no, those games were not must have. People who wanted games in those genres were happy with Tekken and Tekken 2 and the myriad of racers on Sonys system.

Both those games and virtua cop were heavily marketed in that holiday season, Sony still outsold sega easily. And then a few months later we got resident evil which was huge.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

no, those games were not must have. People who wanted games in those genres were happy with Tekken and Tekken 2 and the myriad of racers on Sonys system.

Both those games and virtua cop were heavily marketed in that holiday season, Sony still outsold sega easily. And then a few months later we got resident evil which was huge.

They were the best fighting and driving games you could buy on any console up until 1998, and they were the best 5th gen console games in existence by Christmas 95.

PlayStation really hit its stride towards Christmas 96 though after a really quiet year...

- Resident Evil
- Tomb Raider (far better than Saturn version)
- Crash Bandicoot (most European's first ever 3D platformer)
- WipEout 2097 (Prodigy Firestarter, enough said)
- Formula 1
- Tekken 2
- Destruction Derby 2

 

[diffusionx]

They were the best fighting and driving games you could buy on any console up until 1998, and they were the best 5th gen console games in existence by Christmas 95.

I'd agree they were the best console games in 1995, but like I said multiple times, if you wanted a 3D fighting game, Tekken was good. If you wanted a racing game, PSX had racing games.PSX also had games like Destruction Derby that were different and novel compared to arcade racers like Daytona and Sega. You were not starved for these genres if you went with Sony and that's what people did.

I also don't think that either game was so much more amazing that the stuff Sony got out in 1996 and 1997, you're overstating the case. I would rather play Soul Blade than VF2. This thread is about market not what people individually thought was better.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I'd agree they were the best console games in 1995, but like I said multiple times, if you wanted a 3D fighting game, Tekken was good. If you wanted a racing game, PSX had racing games.PSX also had games like Destruction Derby that were different and novel compared to arcade racers like Daytona and Sega. You were not starved for these genres if you went with Sony and that's what people did.

I also don't think that either game was so much more amazing that the stuff Sony got out in 1996 and 1997, you're overstating the case. I would rather play Soul Blade than VF2. This thread is about market not what people individually thought was better.

PlayStation really pushed ahead in 1997...

- Tomb Raider 2
- Final Fantasy 7
- Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
- International Superstar Soccer (by far the best 3D footie game)
- Abe's Odyssey
- Time Crisis
- Soul Blade
- Rage Racer
- Ace Combat 2
- Formula 1 97

Saturn didn't really have much in the way of exclusives to counter that other than Dragon Force, Bomberman and Quake.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Sony also bought Psygnosis outright which is probably the most consequential acquisition in the game industry ever. Not only were the games great, they were technically advanced and also set the tone for the system in terms of marketing, advertising, art design, etc.

Sega received games from Psygonisis and also received Psy-Q for programming. Wipeout on Sega Saturn is a technically impeccable port; any aspect inferior to the PS1 version is because the Saturn is weaker console .

The Sega Saturn's fall occurred between May 1995 and June 1996.

Sega's plan was to quickly sell the first batch of 80,000 consoles in early release , then import another 80,000, and so on, to sell around 240,000 units before the PS1's release. This failed due to a combination of high prices, common games, and Sony capitalizing on the "299" moment for five months. At the same time, the N64 gained media attention with Mario 64 in November, and finally with the release of Resident Evil. Sega allowed itself to be suffocated, its only breathing space during the release of VF2.

We've all been skilled at pointing out mistakes, now please point out solutions.
Astal and Shinobi X are replaced some kind Shinobi Art of Vengeance (aaa 2d game)

Rad Mobile, Golden Axe the duel canceled
Panzer Dragoon and Daytona USA cease to exist as 1995 games
Virtua Fighter Remix canceled

Guardian Heroes released early, June 1995

Need for Speed Clone for November 1995, with many levels and many hours of gameplay.
Clockwork knight is replaced by Disney Anthology, a collection with a 2.5D hub that would give access to 5 Disney games.
Pandemonium Magical Hoppers clone would be Sonic Saturn for September 1995, killer app.
Escape From Monster Manor clone for November 1995

With these changes, Sega would be in a much better situation, the price of the Saturn would be a problem as it could not be cut before 1996, so Sonic would be in the bundle.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Virtua Fighter Remix canceled

A delay to September 1995 with VF Remix being the pack-in game would've been interesting.

Whenever I saw a Saturn demo pod in a shop in 1995 it always had VF1 running on it and visually it did a terrible job of selling the console, especially next to the PS1 WipEout demo pods.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

I would rather play Soul Blade than VF2. This thread is about market not what people individually thought was better.

I prefer Tekken 2 to any Virtua Fighter, it's simply a better game.

 

[cireza]

I thought Mega CD was a waste of resources and consumer's money too.

Nah, the SEGA-CD was freaking awesome

Tomb Raider (far better than Saturn version)

Nope, it looks like poop, it is too bright, jagged lines everywhere. I prefer the Saturn version.

Saturn didn't really have much in the way of exclusives to counter that other than Dragon Force, Bomberman and Quake.

When you ignore most of the exclusive games released on Saturn, then you don't have a lot of exclusive games on Saturn. Unbeatable argument.

 

[RAIDEN1]

Nah, the SEGA-CD was freaking awesome


Nope, it looks like poop, it is too bright, jagged lines everywhere. I prefer the Saturn version.


When you ignore most of the exclusive games released on Saturn, then you don't have a lot of exclusive games on Saturn. Unbeatable argument.

Someone once said here on NeoGAF, that considering how add-ons don't ever tend to sell that well anyway, Sega CD numbers weren't too bad...(even though it's video playback capabilities were worse than a VCR)

 

[RetroAV]

The 32X existed because Sega of Japan was ready to move on to the Saturn while the Genesis was still going strong in the U.S. Kalinske knew the Saturn would be expensive and needed more time, so he saw the 32X as a way to 1) buy the Saturn breathing room and 2) offer a more affordable option. Honestly, it could have worked—if Sega of Japan had given it proper support. Approving the 32X without committing resources was the real mistake.

And for those who still blame the 32X for the Saturn's failure, I'll ask again: which 32X game would have realistically turned the tide against the PlayStation if it had been a Saturn title instead?

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Nope, it looks like poop, it is too bright, jagged lines everywhere. I prefer the Saturn version.


When you ignore most of the exclusive games released on Saturn, then you don't have a lot of exclusive games on Saturn. Unbeatable argument.

You're completely wrong about Tomb Raider, in terms of visuals and sound it's worse in every way.

As for the great Saturn exclusives of 1997, care to enlighten us? No one who didn't already own a Saturn was going to grab one for Fighters Megamix for example, hence why I didn't list it.

 

[cireza]

No one who didn't already own a Saturn was going to grab one for Fighters Megamix for example

LOL, this game actually sold quite a bit in the West, thinking it didn't sell consoles is pure nonsense.

As far the list of Saturn exclusives in the West in 1997, search for the list of Saturn games on internet, and every game that was not released on another consoles is what we call an exclusive game.

 

[NeverYouMind]

I prefer Tekken 2 to any Virtua Fighter, it's simply a better game.

Not even the first or kids version of Virtua Fighter are as bad as Tekken 2 mechanically and I say that as a fan of Tekken. Still play Tekken 2 for the atmosphere and fmv endings but the combat is awful.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Not even the first or kids version of Virtua Fighter are as bad as Tekken 2 mechanically and I say that as a fan of Tekken. Still play it for the atmosphere but the combat is awful.

Tekken didn't get good until 3

It also probably peaked there.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Tekken didn't get good until 3

It also probably peaked there.

Tekken 2 was okay for 1995 as it had a great presentation and was easy to get into and starting doing cool stuff. Tekken 3 was lit though. Tekken Tag 1 smoothed out its issues. Tekken 4 went in a different direction and didn't get the updates it needed at a time when Virtua Fighter 4 and Soul Calibur 2 really knocked it out of the park. Tekken 5 was a janky evolution of 3. Tekken 6 was good but got weird updates with Bloodline Rebellion. Tekken Tag 2 sank the franchise. Tekken 7 perverted it. Tekken 8 transformed it and dropped the ball with updates. I would say franchise peaked mechanically with Tekken Tag but Tekken 6 came close.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Not even the first or kids version of Virtua Fighter are as bad as Tekken 2 mechanically and I say that as a fan of Tekken. Still play Tekken 2 for the atmosphere and fmv endings but the combat is awful.

It's hard for you to kick against the goads

 

[RoboFu]

Some more little known trivia for you youngsters.

Unlike Nintendo at the time, the other platform holders ( SEGA and HUDSON) often ported 3rd party games to their systems THEMSELVES to bolster their libraries. This however changed drastically going into the 32 bit consoles where it just took much time and money to continue doing so.

 

[NeverYouMind]

It's hard for you to kick against the goads

I am not livestock and Tekken 2 has not aged well. I am unsure of your intent in using that phrase.

 

[Parazels]

Virtua Fighter Remix canceled

They should have released Virtua Fighter with the graphics from Virtua Fighter Remix.
The remix version is further evidence of the mess within Sega's camp.

 

[Parazels]

You're completely wrong about Tomb Raider, in terms of visuals and sound it's worse in every way.

As for the great Saturn exclusives of 1997, care to enlighten us? No one who didn't already own a Saturn was going to grab one for Fighters Megamix for example, hence why I didn't list it.

 

[Parazels]

Bonus: 3DO (!) vs PSX

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

They should have released Virtua Fighter with the graphics from Virtua Fighter Remix.
The remix version is further evidence of the mess within Sega's camp.

The remix exists because of fear.
Sega was desperate when Sony released Toshinden along with a marketing campaign claiming the Saturn was weak. Since people saw VF1 and Toshinden, they believed Sony, so Sega made the Remix version and gave it away to Japanese consumers for free.
As I said, Sega never worried about their IPs, they acted as if the PS1 didn't exist and only woke up when they saw Toshinden eroding VF's fame.

 

[nkarafo]

Someone once said here on NeoGAF, that considering how add-ons don't ever tend to sell that well anyway, Sega CD numbers weren't too bad...

At 2.2 units million worldwide that's 1 every 13 Genesis/Mega Drive users, if my math is correct.

I don't know if that's good enough or not.

 

[Parazels]

At 2.2 units million worldwide that's 1 every 13 Genesis/Mega Drive users, if my math is correct.

I don't know if that's good enough or not.

I won't be surprised if it's similar to the PS5/PS5 Pro.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I'd agree they were the best console games in 1995, but like I said multiple times, if you wanted a 3D fighting game, Tekken was good. If you wanted a racing game, PSX had racing games.PSX also had games like Destruction Derby that were different and novel compared to arcade racers like Daytona and Sega. You were not starved for these genres if you went with Sony and that's what people did.

I also don't think that either game was so much more amazing that the stuff Sony got out in 1996 and 1997, you're overstating the case. I would rather play Soul Blade than VF2. This thread is about market not what people individually thought was better.

Imagine Euro PS users in 1996 caring about Sega Rally when F1 '96 would melt your face just looking at the pics on a magazine

I also remember Total NBA '96 being graphically beyond anything seen before. PS had seriously good games in 1996, and then near the end of the year Tomb Raider came out and when it made a splash, you wouldn't hear the press (outside of the most specialized) mention a Sega Saturn version. Lara Croft became the face of PlayStation (and a new generation of video games) in the span of a few months.

Again, all of this is from a European perspective. At the end of 1996, whatever idea the general public had of the existence of a Sega Saturn dissolved into thin air.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Imagine Euro PS users in 1996 caring about Sega Rally when F1 '96 would melt your face just looking at the pics on a magazine

Are there really fans of F1 and if there are why would they be using a magnifying glass on a gaming publication?

 

[RAIDEN1]

At 2.2 units million worldwide that's 1 every 13 Genesis/Mega Drive users, if my math is correct.

I don't know if that's good enough or not.

Well considering the fact that Sega were all over the place between 1991-and 1995...which meant they didn't put their full weight behind the machine, because if they did, they could have go to town in getting a near arcade perfect port of Streetfighter 2 on there (with red-book audio) as well as Streets of Rage, it was a minor miracle that Eternal Champions, had the enhancements that it did have...