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[RoboFu]

Comprendo is aimed at yourself

Comprendes?

But PSX DoA was almost entirely a different game.

They shared the DoA name and characters, but in reality they were different products. PSX DoA played and looked different, and had no ringouts for example. Saturn version was a port of Model 2, a very impressive one at that. The PSX version had nothing to do with this engine and was ported to ZN1 for arcades.

Personally I prefer the Saturn version by a country mile. I could be wrong but I remember the PSX case actually featured Saturn screenshots, because it looked nothing like the game and it puzzled me.

Itagaki chose to include the Saturn version with Ultimate for a reason.

Non of that has anything to do with my point . The point being the PlayStation port was a lower budget quick port with fewer resources by people ( good developers not even second string ) inexperienced with the PlayStation. It could have reach 60 fps easily with a bit more time.

I don't think you guys understand what people mean when they say the Saturn never got near its potential. That doesn't mean it was better than the PlayStation.

Home brew devs have done things like add real transparencies to old Saturn games . How is that possible if the above isn't true?

 

[SkylineRKR]

Non of that has anything to do with my point . The point being the PlayStation port was a lower budget quick port with fewer resources by people ( good developers not even second string ) inexperienced with the PlayStation. It could have reach 60 fps easily with a bit more time.

I don't think you guys understand what people mean when they say the Saturn never got near its potential. That doesn't mean it was better than the PlayStation.

Home brew devs have done things like add real transparencies to old Saturn games . How is that possible if the above isn't true?

My point is that the PSX version wasn't a port but a different product altogether. Its obviously made from scratch, with the original version as influence. I've owned both versions, they had nothing to do with eachother. Completely different graphics and stages. Even the gameplay was different.

Today you can do much more than in 1995. If they would re-developed Doom for Saturn, it would be unrecognizable. Even the homebrew 32x Doom blows the original 32x release, and also the original Saturn version out of the water with its perf, resolution and speed.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

The PS1 isn't capable of supporting a port of DOA Model 2 using full 3D environments at 60fps. 30fps is possible; it would be similar to Star Gladiator.
In other words, the Saturn can mimic the DOA Model 2 version due to its ability to use 2D backgrounds, while on the PS1, even 2D backgrounds use polygons. but PS1 has true 3D games at 60fps like Blood Roar and Tobal. However, I prefer the PS1 version of DOA; it's prettier despite being a different game.

 

[Parazels]

MGS on the Saturn: the latest update!

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

MGS on the Saturn: the latest update!

Damn, I was just about to post this!

Seriously impressive stuff; modern ports like this DO benefit from hindsight, a better understanding of multiprocessor/multicore programming than any dev had in the mid '90s, better dev tools and being removed from the stress of a commercial dev cycle with publishers pushing crunch for 12-18 month dev cycles...

...but even knowing all of that, it's hard to deny when great homebrew stuff like this comes about. Really good use of VDP2 here, which makes sense given the camera in MGS is mostly fixed to an angled top-down perspective, so you've got a lot of flat floor surface for VDP2 to do its thing.

 

[Team Andromeda]

I still think it's unfair to use games made even if they are home brew.
2 games I think would have been much better on the Saturn back in the day would have been GTA and Ghost In The Shell .

VDP2 would have made light work of those flat floors and flat scrolling sky in Ghost In the Shell

 

[cireza]

Really good use of VDP2 here

I am actually wondering if it is using VDP2 at all. If it does, then it is only for the flat floor. Which would be the most basic and logical use of it. Still a great work especially the camera implementation.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Really good use of VDP2 here, which makes sense given the camera in MGS is mostly fixed to an angled top-down perspective, so you've got a lot of flat floor surface for VDP2 to do its thing.

it only use vdp1 imo

 

[RAIDEN1]

Damn, I was just about to post this!

Seriously impressive stuff; modern ports like this DO benefit from hindsight, a better understanding of multiprocessor/multicore programming than any dev had in the mid '90s, better dev tools and being removed from the stress of a commercial dev cycle with publishers pushing crunch for 12-18 month dev cycles...

...but even knowing all of that, it's hard to deny when great homebrew stuff like this comes about. Really good use of VDP2 here, which makes sense given the camera in MGS is mostly fixed to an angled top-down perspective, so you've got a lot of flat floor surface for VDP2 to do its thing.

It is surprising that the Saturn never got a version of it, actually no Sega console has EVER had a port of any Metal Gear game.....yet Konami didn't have a problem in putting Snatcher/Policenauts on the Saturn...

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Yes it was harder to harness all that power in Saturn fully synchronously... but the power IS there.

It isn't, these numbers only serve to misinform fans.

Saturn has more MIPs processing between the 2x SH-2 CPUs (~ 74 MIPs combined) and SCU DSP (86 MIPs) than the PS1 (30 MIPs for the R3000A CPU; 66 MIPs for the GTE).

this means nothing due to bottlenecks on the bus

It has more VRAM (1.5 MB vs 1 MB)

This doesn't work like you think. It has 512 KB VDP1 texture, 2× 256 KB VDP1 framebuffers and 512 KB to VDP2 background.
This means, only 512kb for textures and polygons, it's less than the 1mb of the PS1 that can be used freely, always allowing to have more polygons and textures per frame (and therefore more beautiful games) than Saturn could.

and a much larger texture cache for the 3D engine for VDP1

irrelevant, the Saturn is simply inferior in textures

VDP2 has upwards 17:1 tiled "compression" ratio and can push roughly 500 Mpixels/second doing 2x 3D rotation planes. No other console could match that in terms of polygon equivalents until the Dreamcast in 6th gen.

Irrelevant, the PS1 has clones of games that use VDP2, and the quality is comparable,10% lower , maybe.

VDP2 is an illusion. Note VF2, high-res, 60fps, 2D backgrounds. The PS1 has Tobal and other games with high-res, 60fps, fully 3D backgrounds, lighting, and proper shadows (not shit circle). The Saturn is a primitive technology, unfortunately.

If you understand that the Saturn produces worse textures, lower FPS, lighting effects, shadows, and transparencies—in short, any crap that makes a 3D game pleasing to the eye is WORSE on the Sega Saturn, understand this. If you're a true fan, stop resisting.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I still think it's unfair to use games made even if they are home brew.
2 games I think would have been much better on the Saturn back in the day would have been GTA and Ghost In The Shell .

VDP2 would have made light work of those flat floors and flat scrolling sky in Ghost In the Shell

Tekken 1 and 2 could have been done much better on Saturn (due to the flat backgrounds).

Tekken 3 is rendered much differently though

 

[Team Andromeda]

Tekken 1 and 2 could have been done much better on Saturn (due to the flat backgrounds).

Tekken 3 is rendered much differently though

I think you could have had nice versions on Saturn

Tekken 1 and 2 could have been done much better on Saturn (due to the flat backgrounds).

Tekken 3 is rendered much differently though

I know you are going to laugh, but I found VF Remix visually more impressive than Tekken 1
Ok it was only 30 FPS but the quality of the texture mapping and the high-res visuals looked more impressive

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I think you could have had nice versions on Saturn

I know you are going to laugh, but I found VF Remix visually more impressive than Tekken 1
Ok it was only 30 FPS but the quality of the texture mapping and the high-res visuals looked more impressive

Nah it's a reasonable comparison.

Having VF Remix instead of VF1 on all those demo pods back in 1995 certainly would have changed perceptions.

Arcade VF1 is quite charming, but the Saturn version just looked a dog's dinner back in 1995, it certainly put me off initially.

 

[Alexios]

I think you could have had nice versions on Saturn

I know you are going to laugh, but I found VF Remix visually more impressive than Tekken 1
Ok it was only 30 FPS but the quality of the texture mapping and the high-res visuals looked more impressive

Remix has a nicer texture art style than VF2 tbh. Makes sense since it was done after VF2's arcade version so with more experience and not just trying to have a given arcade port, as close as possible.

And I maintain the lack of lighting on both Remix & VF2 helps hide the blocky character models more than the flat shading in the arcade games making every quad obvious but I guess that's just me.

It's a shame they didn't do more console only efforts. Like a VF2.5 that used its own art style and VF3 based gameplay, or a Sega Rally 1.5 with new tracks like Sega Rally 2's 10 year championship etc.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Sega Rally 2's 10 year championship etc.

Still can't get past that desert course on year 7

 

[Team Andromeda]

Remix has a nicer texture art style than VF2 tbh. Makes sense since it was done after VF2's arcade version so with more experience and not just trying to have a given arcade port, as close as possible.

And I maintain the lack of lighting on both Remix & VF2 helps hide the blocky character models more than the flat shading in the arcade games making every quad obvious but I guess that's just me.

It's a shame they didn't do more console only efforts. Like a VF2.5 that used its own art style and VF3 based gameplay, or a Sega Rally 1.5 with new tracks like Sega Rally 2's 10 year championship etc.

I think AM#1 texture work in VF Remix and Die Hard Arcade is not only some of the best on the Saturn, but in any 32-Bit game
I also agree with you, VF 2 arms joints look smoother compared to those in the Arcade version of VF2 and Tekken 1/2 or Last Bronx

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I think AM#1 texture work in VF Remix and Die Hard Arcade is not only some of the best on the Saturn, but in any 32-Bit game
I also agree with you, VF 2 arms joints look smoother compared to those in the Arcade version of VF2 and Tekken 1/2 or Last Bronx

Yeah the lighting implementation in VF1, Tekken 2 and arcade VF2 did the games no favours, very blocky appearance.

I'd say top 5 fighters visually across both systems (not counting wrestling, sorry Smackdown 2)...

Saturn
1. Last Bronx
2. Virtua Fighter 2
3. Dead or Alive
4. Savaki
5. Virtua Fighter Kids

PlayStation
1. Tekken 3
2. Soul Blade
3. Tobal 2
4. Ehrgeiz
5. Kensei: Sacred Fist or Dead or Alive

The games are rendered very differently with Saturn relying more on 2D parallax and PlayStation making use of lighting and polygonal background.

To the end user though there's little perceivable difference.

3D fighters were the stars of the show visually that generation, and Saturn's strongest genre.

 

[RAIDEN1]

Nah it's a reasonable comparison.

Having VF Remix instead of VF1 on all those demo pods back in 1995 certainly would have changed perceptions.

Arcade VF1 is quite charming, but the Saturn version just looked a dog's dinner back in 1995, it certainly put me off initially.

Apparently some say in some respects the 32x version of VF1 looks better than Saturn..

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Anyone see TR2 on Saturn yet? Interesting look at "what might've been."

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

3D fighters were the stars of the show visually that generation, and Saturn's strongest genre.

It's not hard to deduce that vdp2 existed only to make vf and similar games possible
I played all these games, and honestly I would trade them all for mk4.

 

[cireza]

Saturn
1. Last Bronx
2. Virtua Fighter 2
3. Dead or Alive
4. Savaki
5. Virtua Fighter Kids

Needs some Zero Divide somewhere in this top. In place of VF Kids for example.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Needs some Zero Divide somewhere in this top. In place of VF Kids for example.

Yep and an example of Saturn out doing the PS1 version, but of course the PS crowd will always talk of Tomb Raider and Wipeout

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Yep and an example of Saturn out doing the PS1 version, but of course the PS crowd will always talk of Tomb Raider and Wipeout

The comparisons most people drew were against ports of the big games.

I doubt even 90% of Saturn owners had heard of Zero Divide

 

[RAIDEN1]

Yep and an example of Saturn out doing the PS1 version, but of course the PS crowd will always talk of Tomb Raider and Wipeout

Yeah well Wipeout was an absolutely pointless addition to the Saturn library and did no favours for it....

 

[diffusionx]

Anyone see TR2 on Saturn yet? Interesting look at "what might've been."

if this was released next to TR2 on PSX, the gap in sales wouldve been even wider.

Yep and an example of Saturn out doing the PS1 version, but of course the PS crowd will always talk of Tomb Raider and Wipeout

how many Saturns did Zero Divide sell as opposed to TR and WipeOut moving PlayStations?

 

[RAIDEN1]

This was the game Rise of the Robots should have been....

 

[Team Andromeda]

if this was released next to TR2 on PSX, the gap in sales wouldve been even wider.


how many Saturns did Zero Divide sell as opposed to TR and WipeOut moving PlayStations?

28 years ago, Pal... let it Go!!! *rollseyes*

 

[diffusionx]

28 years ago, Pal... let it Go!!! *rollseyes*

I think you need to let go of your delusions about how the nobody except you understood the super secret power and greatness of Sega's systems.

They failed for good reasons.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Yeah well Wipeout was an absolutely pointless addition to the Saturn library and did no favours for it....

I wouldn't go that for, I thought Wipeout 2097 wasn't that bad and in your main system was the Saturn, not a bad version, much like Grandia on the PS1

In the end people can own all the systems, but they'll always be one system you favour the most, buy and play the most games on, even if the ports aren't the best. How many PS2 fans couldn't give a shit that the OG Xbox version looked better, had 5.1 support and better online?

I was the same for Saturn

 

[Team Andromeda]

I think you need to let go of your delusions about how the nobody except you understood the super secret power and greatness of Sega's systems.

They failed for good reasons.

I'm not the one pretending not to care about what happed '30 years ago' and since you like to deal in facts, The Saturn version of Zero Divide is better

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

It's a shame they didn't do more console only efforts. Like a VF2.5 that used its own art style and VF3 based gameplay, or a Sega Rally 1.5 with new tracks like Sega Rally 2's 10 year championship etc.

I feel like the devs didn't do proper R&D, and the Saturn has VDP2, so the console became an experimental situation, there was no internal consensus about which path to take. In my opinion, the best use for the Sega Saturn was producing clones of Guardian Heroes and Powerslave. Sega shouldn't have abandoned the use of 3D stages and 2D sprite-based characters. This means that games like Burning Rangers wouldn't exist, it would be a fair price to pay.

 

[diffusionx]

I'm not the one pretending not to care about what happed '30 years ago' and since you like to deal in facts, The Saturn version of Zero Divide is better

I don't care about the super secret power that actually meant the Saturn was better than the PlayStation, correct. I do care, for some reason, about the history of the two systems and what led to the Saturn failing. That is what the thrust of my posts in this thread convey.

The Saturn did not fail because it was actually too amazing for the world to comprehend as people like you seem to believe.

 

[RAIDEN1]

I wouldn't go that for, I thought Wipeout 2097 wasn't that bad and in your main system was the Saturn, not a bad version, much like Grandia on the PS1

In the end people can own all the systems, but they'll always be one system you favour the most, buy and play the most games on, even if the ports aren't the best. How many PS2 fans couldn't give a shit that the OG Xbox version looked better, had 5.1 support and better online?

I was the same for Saturn

Well let's face it, it looked a lot darker, mesh transparencies, lower frame-rate...



Even a person in the comments section of the video who helped with the project talks about the transparency issue....

 

[cireza]

I think you need to let go of your delusions about how the nobody except you understood the super secret power and greatness of Sega's systems.

They failed for good reasons.

You literary came back in the thread only to console war.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

if this was released next to TR2 on PSX, the gap in sales wouldve been even wide

Yeah I don't think I care. It's just cool to see someone make a port so many years later.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Well let's face it, it looked a lot darker, mesh transparencies, lower frame-rate...



Even a person in the comments section of the video who helped with the project talks about the transparency issue....

Sure, for the 1st game, but the sequel wasn't too bad and if you played in cock-pit mode you did get a nice clean transparent effect for the player shield, thanks to the VDP2

I had my older brothers PS1 in my room at the time (he's 10 years older) when he was busy out shagging his wife to be. Yet, I still looked to buy the Saturn versions of Alien Trilogy, Die Hard Trilogy knowing full well they were inferior

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

I want solutions to be proposed, how Sega could save the Sega Saturn, I already wrote my opinion in this thread.

 

[Team Andromeda]

You literary came back in the thread only to console war.

He can't let 30 years go... even if, he pretends otherwise *rollseyes*

 

[Team Andromeda]

I think you need to let go of your delusions about how the nobody except you understood the super secret power and greatness of Sega's systems.

They failed for good reasons.

Still here, after 30 years?

Leave it go man ...

 

[cireza]

Yet, I still looked to buy the Saturn versions of Alien Trilogy, Die Hard Trilogy knowing full well they were inferior

Alien Trilogy on Saturn is an excellent version, very playable and smooth. And looks good too.

Saturn had some late ports, sure, but I personally still enjoyed them a ton. Resident Evil, Destruction Derby or Wipeout 2097 to name a few. I really didn't care about the fact that they were released later, I had enough things to play and simply enjoyed what was getting released at the time of release. It's not like we were starving for games, there were plenty being released. The console carried me without any problem to the Dreamcast launch in France. Never felt I needed to buy a PS1 or N64... And didn't import anything either, all my games were PAL releases.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Yeah the lighting implementation in VF1, Tekken 2 and arcade VF2 did the games no favours, very blocky appearance.

I'd say top 5 fighters visually across both systems (not counting wrestling, sorry Smackdown 2)...

Saturn
1. Last Bronx
2. Virtua Fighter 2
3. Dead or Alive
4. Savaki
5. Virtua Fighter Kids

PlayStation
1. Tekken 3
2. Soul Blade
3. Tobal 2
4. Ehrgeiz
5. Kensei: Sacred Fist or Dead or Alive

The games are rendered very differently with Saturn relying more on 2D parallax and PlayStation making use of lighting and polygonal background.

To the end user though there's little perceivable difference.

3D fighters were the stars of the show visually that generation, and Saturn's strongest genre.

My lists would be somewhat different...

---

SAT:
1. Dead or Alive


2. Last Bronx


3. Fighting Vipers


4. Goiken Muyou: Anarchy in the Nippon (Big Head Mode)


5. Touryuu Densetsu Elan Doree

---

PSX:
1. Destrega


2. Bloody Roar 2


3. Cardinal Syn


4. Tekken 3


5. Ehrgeiz

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I wouldn't go that for, I thought Wipeout 2097 wasn't that bad and in your main system was the Saturn, not a bad version, much like Grandia on the PS1

In the end people can own all the systems, but they'll always be one system you favour the most, buy and play the most games on, even if the ports aren't the best. How many PS2 fans couldn't give a shit that the OG Xbox version looked better, had 5.1 support and better online?

I was the same for Saturn

PS2 was all about the library though, the sheer amount of great PS2 exclusives meant Xbox never got a look in.

 

[Alexios]

Fighting games like SFA2 (and Z3 with the ram cart), Darkstalkers Revenge (and Vampire Savior with the ram cart), Astra Superstars, Asuka 120% and others of their ilk are equally cool to the best 3D stuff (and some of them exclusive to Saturn at home so no static PS screens to show they're the same while missing more animation frames/background layers etc., as lower frames and reduced/missing graphical elements apparently only matter for 3D gaming to folks, lol). Usually with way less concessions than the praised 3D ports to PS1 even without the use of ram carts.

VF was a fine port for its time, same framerate as the arcade, reduced polycounts (Model 1 was still a beast on that front), lighting, the glitchy polygon disappearing was mostly only a problem in replays so the actual playability was there as good as the arcade tbh. The game itself was outdated and put people off, being untextured, 30fps, with crude polygonal marionette characters (tons of polys wasted, nobody knew better when they were made and they were not remodeled for Saturn, just simplified further), superseded by vastly improved sequels and even lesser games had left that old polygonal untextured look behind by then. Saturn got the flack for a rather faithful port just for being based on that old (pioneering, legendary) game, even though we knew it can obviously have textures etc. so this was simply the standard arcade port not adding/changing stuff.

Same as VF3 on Dreamcast really, another faithful port that got flack because yet again it was a by then crude looking once pioneering arcade game. Way less technically demanding games like Soulcalibur looked better with improved modeling techniques that didn't waste polygons (and DOA2 just left everything else in the dust visually), but still Dreamcast got panned for it because, again, a port didn't take the time to remodel everything with better technique like Soulcalibur did, just cram the original in the console with few concessions.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

my top 10 Sega Saturn games

1- Duke Nukem 3d
2- powerslave
3- Mortal Kombat Trilogy
4- RE1
5- Tomb Raider
6- street fighter alpha 3
7- Kof 97
8- Saturn Bomberman
9- herc's adventures
10- doa

my top 10 Playstation games

1- Crash
2- Tekken 3
3- Mortal Kombat Trilogy
4- Soul Reaver
5- Tomb Raider 4
6- street fighter alpha 3
7- Tony hawk's
8- Final Fantasy 8
9- Gran Turismo
10- Crash Team Racing

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Fighting games like SFA2 (and Z3 with the ram cart), Darkstalkers Revenge (and Vampire Savior with the ram cart), Astra Superstars, Asuka 120% and others of their ilk are equally cool to the best 3D stuff (and some of them exclusive to Saturn at home so no static PS screens to show they're the same while missing more animation frames/background layers etc., as lower frames and reduced/missing graphical elements apparently only matter for 3D gaming to folks, lol). Usually with way less concessions than the praised 3D ports to PS1 even without the use of ram carts.

VF was a fine port for its time, same framerate as the arcade, reduced polycounts (Model 1 was still a beast on that front), lighting, the glitchy polygon disappearing was mostly only a problem in replays so the actual playability was there as good as the arcade tbh. The game itself was outdated and put people off, being untextured, 30fps, with crude polygonal marionette characters (tons of polys wasted, nobody knew better when they were made and they were not remodeled for Saturn, just simplified further), superseded by vastly improved sequels and even lesser games had left that old polygonal untextured look behind by then. Saturn got the flack for a rather faithful port just for being based on that old (pioneering, legendary) game, even though we knew it can obviously have textures etc. so this was simply the standard arcade port not adding/changing stuff.

Same as VF3 on Dreamcast really, another faithful port that got flack because yet again it was a by then crude looking once pioneering arcade game. Way less technically demanding games like Soulcalibur looked better with improved modeling techniques that didn't waste polygons (and DOA2 just left everything else in the dust visually), but still Dreamcast got panned for it because, again, a port didn't take the time to remodel everything with better technique like Soulcalibur did, just cram the original in the console with few concessions.

Virtua Fighter 3 was still by far the best looking fighter money could upon both its Japanese and European release.

Soul Calibur obviously overshadowed it in American where it actually launched before VF3 and was one of only a few examples (Code Veronica by Capcom) of a third party dedicating a proper next gen game to Dreamcast.

Dead or Alive 2was the best of the bunch, it also ended the arcade's power dominance over consoles as it was essentially running on a Dreamcast in the arcade.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Same as VF3 on Dreamcast really, another faithful port that got flack because yet again it was a by then crude looking once pioneering arcade game.

I interpret it differently, the hype for VF emerged in 1993 and lasted until 1996, 3D fighting games became more fluid in gameplay while VF3 continued to be that game with bad gameplay as always, Soul Calibur is a better game even the arcade version with 32-bit graphics. I participated in a Live, and several so-called Sega fans were saying that some bad Sega games were Masterpiece, they said this driven by fanaticism, fortunately Sega stopped paying attention, because otherwise they will go bankrupt again. I'm convinced that Sega will move away from everything related to the Sega Saturn and Dreamcast except for those select games. (sakura wars, vf, crazy taxi , jsr, skies of arcadia).

 

[Team Andromeda]

PS2 was all about the library though, the sheer amount of great PS2 exclusives meant Xbox never got a look in.

Like usual, it's always different for the PS2

And for me, the OG Xbox had the better exclusives, but that's another debate LOL

 

[Team Andromeda]

Fighting games like SFA2 (and Z3 with the ram cart), Darkstalkers Revenge (and Vampire Savior with the ram cart), Astra Superstars, Asuka 120% and others of their ilk are equally cool to the best 3D stuff (and some of them exclusive to Saturn at home so no static PS screens to show they're the same while missing more animation frames/background layers etc., as lower frames and reduced/missing graphical elements apparently only matter for 3D gaming to folks, lol). Usually with way less concessions than the praised 3D ports to PS1 even without the use of ram carts.

VF was a fine port for its time, same framerate as the arcade, reduced polycounts (Model 1 was still a beast on that front), lighting, the glitchy polygon disappearing was mostly only a problem in replays so the actual playability was there as good as the arcade tbh. The game itself was outdated and put people off, being untextured, 30fps, with crude polygonal marionette characters (tons of polys wasted, nobody knew better when they were made and they were not remodeled for Saturn, just simplified further), superseded by vastly improved sequels and even lesser games had left that old polygonal untextured look behind by then. Saturn got the flack for a rather faithful port just for being based on that old (pioneering, legendary) game, even though we knew it can obviously have textures etc. so this was simply the standard arcade port not adding/changing stuff.

Same as VF3 on Dreamcast really, another faithful port that got flack because yet again it was a by then crude looking once pioneering arcade game. Way less technically demanding games like Soulcalibur looked better with improved modeling techniques that didn't waste polygons (and DOA2 just left everything else in the dust visually), but still Dreamcast got panned for it because, again, a port didn't take the time to remodel everything with better technique like Soulcalibur did, just cram the original in the console with few concessions.

Spot on and for me VF is the best in the series, because it was simple enough for most of my mates to learn and be good at, without needed to become an expert at it like VF2 and also the Saturn sound effects were remarkable, truly bone crunching and the remixed music utterly wonderful.

You're also spot on about VF3 on the DC, it gets slag from people who just reuse internet myths and it gets tiresome at times. The game is 95% a perfect port and that's all Genki was asked to do, not to remake the game and redo the graphics. But to convert a Model 3 game for launch on incomplete development kits and little over 4 months to get it all done, they did a remarkable job. I so wished that Sega Rally 2 on the DC was as close as VF3 was to its Arcade version for graphics

 

[Signalis]

Virtual Hydelide

What a fucking piece of shit of a game. Luckily I rented it from the video store for the weekend, I went back the next morning and asked if I could have something else.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Alien Trilogy on Saturn is an excellent version, very playable and smooth. And looks good too.

Saturn had some late ports, sure, but I personally still enjoyed them a ton. Resident Evil, Destruction Derby or Wipeout 2097 to name a few. I really didn't care about the fact that they were released later, I had enough things to play and simply enjoyed what was getting released at the time of release. It's not like we were starving for games, there were plenty being released. The console carried me without any problem to the Dreamcast launch in France. Never felt I needed to buy a PS1 or N64... And didn't import anything either, all my games were PAL releases.

RE is better on the Saturn and yes Alien Trilogy is a great port on the Saturn, but it lacks the lighting effects, but I knew full well most 3rd party games were better on the PS1,, but I still got the Saturn versions because that was my main system and the system I loved

A lot of my friends had a PS2 and Xbox, but would still buy the PS2 version even though they could see and even hear the massive gulf in graphics between the Xbox version and the PS2 when they came up my house and played the same game and could see the clear difference

That what always gets me with the PlayStation fans is the double standards when it comes to the PS2 . A system that was harder to developer on than its rivals, didn't have an exclusive NFL game early in, unlike its rivals, was outclassed for USA launch line up by its rivals and where 3rd party ports looked better on 'rival' system

All reasons to bash Sega Saturn, but not the PS2