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[Lunar15]

Made it to the end of chapter 70 today. Will probably catch up by tomorrow.

I'm starting to see what everyone means about the series not quite reaching the highest of highs. For me, it nailed the emotional stakes of the battles for the characters, and does a lot of cool stuff with that, like Bakugo and Midoriya teaming up, and using it to keep developing the side characters in the background. The only problem is that now that they have the big villain threat slooooooowly building up in the background, a training exercise is starting to seem less and less important, even if it's doing some pretty major character stuff. I don't think of this as a serious flaw or anything, but when you have a series that's got so many side characters you need to develop, and then you present this new super cool and threatening villain, you risk a bit of impatience, even though the way he's developing side characters is still good.

Anyway, does anyone else think this is the best art in shonen? To be fair, I don't read much of shonen, I don't even know exactly what else is being published besides the few stuff I read, but while the main characters all look good, he seems to go all out on stuff that isn't the main characters. I just stopped where the forest devil beast showed up and it looks awesome. And we've already gone over how the villains get all the detail. This shit right here is going to appear in my nightmares tonight.

The art's stellar. Extremely unique and versatile. The shading also apes a bit from western comic books, which is a nice touch.

As for highs, well, just hold on to your seat a bit. You're still not even to the part where I went from "this is enjoyable" to "this is one of the better things I've read in some time"

 

[cntr]

Oh yeah, since Veelk is past that bit now, lemme talk about how brilliant One for All is.

Shounen series have "hard work and guts" as central theme, but at the same time they make the main character "destined" to defeat the great evil. Naruto started out as a lonely kid with a curse who worked hard to become strong. By the end of the series, he's the most powerful not because effort, but because he's related to the important people.

One for All, on the other hand, is directly connected to the ultimate villain of the setting and it's Deku's destiny to defeat All for One...but Deku is given One for All by choice. Deku is not a special person by descent, he was elevated by proving his worth to All Might. He doesn't work hard because he was always destined to fight the battle, it's because he worked hard that he was chosen to inherit the battle.

It's a fantastic set up.

 

[Veelk]

You know, whenever a series I really like goes haywire and becomes awful, I often basically make up a version of the story in my head that fixes the issues I have. I don't write it out or anything, but I think out the narrative that should have been.

With the interplay of hard work vs. destiny being such a mess in Naruto that it was, an important distinction I would have made was that Naruto would slowly gain control of the Kyubi's power on his own terms, rather than have the power take over when in life desperate situations or the Kyubi working with him.

More than any other shonen, I see more Naruto in MHA and with One For All, it's a very similar set up to what I figured out in my head years ago. So one big part of why I really like this is because it is, in many ways, Naruto reborn and done right.

One Piece avoided this for so long. Now it's clear there's some weird shenanigans.

Well....I mean, Will of D and him being dragons son and Garp's grandson was established pretty early. We just didn't know the significance of it all at the time. But yeah, as of the time skip, now Luffy has prophecy following him around and has conquerer's haki and all that. Still, he came out undefeated against all the big names on his side of the ocean, and it took taking on a Shichibukai unprepared to actually stop his winstreak. It seemed obvious he was no normal guy from the start for me.

 

[Lunar15]

Oh yeah, since Veelk is past that bit now, lemme talk about how brilliant One for All is.

Shounen series have "hard work and guts" as central theme, but at the same time they make the main character "destined" to defeat the great evil. Naruto started out as a lonely kid with a curse who worked hard to become strong. By the end of the series, he's the most powerful not because effort, but because he's related to the important people.

One for All, on the other hand, is directly connected to the ultimate villain of the setting and it's Deku's destiny to defeat All for One...but Deku is given One for All by choice. Deku is not a special person by descent, he was elevated by proving his worth to All Might. He doesn't work hard because he was always destined to fight the battle, it's because he worked hard that he was chosen to inherit the battle.

It's a fantastic set up.

One Piece avoided this for so long. Now it's clear there's some weird shenanigans.

On the subject of Naruto: MHA is so very similar to Naruto in a lot of ways... just with everyone being pretty likeable and making smart decisions.

 

[cntr]

Heh, I do that "think up a better version" thing too.

 

[Lunar15]

Well....I mean, Will of D and him being dragons son and Garp's grandson was established pretty early. We just didn't know the significance of it all at the time. But yeah, as of the time skip, now Luffy has prophecy following him around and has conquerer's haki and all that. Still, he came out undefeated against all the big names on his side of the ocean, and it took taking on a Shichibukai unprepared to actually stop his winstreak. It seemed obvious he was no normal guy from the start for me.

His family being big is interesting, but it's not like they were necessarily tied to One Piece or anything, like Roger was. The Will of D is where it started creeping in. Now there's all this joy boy stuff and it's gotten significantly more obvious that there's some direct generational shenanigans going on. I was fine with the Will of D being a metaphorical concept, since it ties into the whole theme of, "people's intentions can carry on after they die" thing. But now it's pretty much become some destiny mumbo jumbo. Here's hoping MHA doesn't become that!

Also, you're gonna hate this: The author for MHA had originally intended Deku to remain quirkless throughout the story. His whole thing was that he was just going to be smarter and more resourceful than everyone else, building tools and traps to earn his own spot in the school. He ended up getting a quirk because a Jump editor told Horikoshi that Deku should "get a cool power", because it would "be more interesting for fans". I don't hate that Deku has a power, and I generally like how Horikoshi has handled it, but boy am I curious as to how that version would have played out.

Also, Uraraka was originally going to have Mt. Lady's quirk, but Horikoshi thought it'd be too dark because she'd stand out way too much. This change I get.

 

[cntr]

A quirkless Deku would've been interesting, but to be honest, I like the current set-up more. Horikoshi's said that Deku's relationship with All Might wasn't there with the quirkless story, and that's one of the best parts of the series. And the editor was doing Horikoshi a favor; MHA was Horikoshi's third series, and getting three series canceled in a row gets you blacklisted by Shounen Jump. Horikoshi's career would've ended.

Horikoshi's also said that the series was originally set during college, not high school. It's interesting how mature the characters are from that perspective, almost like they were written as adults.

As an aside, he's also said Ochako/Deku was set up to happen even in the quirkless college setting, to the point that their personalities were designed around each other. It's kind of hilarious how official the pairing is.

 

[Veelk]

Also, you're gonna hate this: The author for MHA had originally intended Deku to remain quirkless throughout the story. His whole thing was that he was just going to be smarter and more resourceful than everyone else, building tools and traps to earn his own spot in the school. He ended up getting a quirk because a Jump editor told Horikoshi that Deku should "get a cool power", because it would "be more interesting for fans". I don't hate that Deku has a power, and I generally like how Horikoshi has handled it, but boy am I curious as to how that version would have played out.

Also, Uraraka was originally going to have Mt. Lady's quirk, but Horikoshi thought it'd be too dark because she'd stand out way too much.

Well, that's interesting, but I don't mind Deku having a power at all. What I value is that Deku is a very clever hero that uses what has to make things work. My only real worry with One for All is that once he gets any mastery of it, power creep might settle in much faster than it should. As of now, 5% is still catastrophically powerful. Once he gets 30%, he'll be head and shoulders above everyone in his class, and it unlike him, everyone more or less has their power operating at full capacity. They can get smarter about how they use their powers, but they can't get too much stronger.

But if you want to see what a powerless Deku, something close to what your describing is basically Mx0. It's a story about a guy who accidentally gets into a magic school despite him being magicless, and through various circumstances, he is viewed as one of the most powerful users in the school. It's something of a cult classic manga. A lot of people liked it, but it just never got the traction in popularity it needed and was canceled before it's time. I don't remember it super well, but I remember liking it a lot.

MHA was Horikoshi's third series, and getting three series canceled in a row gets you blacklisted by Shounen Jump. Horikoshi's career would've ended.

Really? Why?

Man, SJ has some weird ass rules.

I kind of respect him even more for being willing to break shonen conventions now. It's one thing to break them with a sense of assured success, it's much more to break them when consequences could be that bad.

Aren't there more manga magazines out there though? Or does SJ just have a monopoly?

 

[cntr]

Yeah, I don't think the percentages are going to rise for a long time. I can see Deku learning how to do special move smashes bigger than 5% and smaller than 100% eventually, but not not like, a 30% full cowl.

That said, there's stuff in recent chapters that makes me worry about that less.

Really? Why?

Man, SJ has some weird ass rules.

I kind of respect him even more for being willing to break shonen conventions now. It's one thing to break them with a sense of assured success, it's much more to break them when consequences could be that bad.

Aren't there more manga magazines out there though? Or does SJ just have a monopoly?

It's their scheme to get the most profitable series without spending too much time on (perceived) failures. And yeah, there's non-Shueisha magazines -- but if you got deemed a failure by Jump, the editors of other magazines aren't going to take a chance with you. Too risky for them.

 

[Lunar15]

Oh yeah, I like where he went with One for All and All Might's relationship with Deku. But still, I do have to wonder what that original setup would have been like.

Never heard about the college setting though. Given that they're training to be heroes, that makes a bit more sense, but the high school setting works perfectly fine and was probably necessary to be popular.

 

[OniBarubary]

Mx0. It's a story about a guy who accidentally gets into a magic school despite him being magicless, and through various circumstances, he is viewed as one of the most powerful users in the school. It's something of a cult classic manga. A lot of people liked it, but it just never got the traction in popularity it needed and was canceled before it's time. I don't remember it super well, but I remember liking it a lot.

Aw man, you are good people. MxO was the shit.

 

[Ascheroth]

Aw man, you are good people. MxO was the shit.

Now I have the sudden urge to re-read it (again).

 

[cntr]

I wonder if people were annoyed by MxO's cancellation in Japan too, given that Bakuman has a scene about it

 

[Dominican Power]

So the anime ends at chapter 21? Should I read it from the start?

Spoiler

What site you go to read it?

 

[cntr]

I'd recommend reading from the start, but yeah, the anime ends about halfway through Chapter 21.

Spoiler

Viz's translation is the official (and best) way to read it, but you can find the fan translations if you look around a bit

 

[Cerium]

So the anime ends at chapter 21? Should I read it from the start?

Spoiler

What site you go to read it?

You could continue on from Chapter 21 and be just fine but I suppose there's no reason not to read from the start.

 

[Sou Da]

Fallen Angels has all the archives. Once you're caught up, MangaStream has updates every Thursday.

 

[Captain Rage Quit 69]

[REDACTED] has all the archives. Once you're caught up, [REDACTED] has updates every Thursday.

>bluntly naming the sites
>not indirectly hinting at them

Spoiler

I just wanted an excuse to post this

 

[silenttype01]

I am rereading the the manga from the beginning and I like the detail given to All Might's attire when he's out and about. His bathing suit when training Midoriya calls back to the 1950s era of striped bathing suits and his pinstripe business suit is reminiscent of the style of that era. Truly a superhero from the Silver Age.

Also, given how All Might's power works, it's an interesting bit of detail for All Might to tell Midoriya to keep his eyes and mouth closed when Midoriya latched onto his leg before jumping off. That drip of blood from his mouth may have entered through one of those two methods.

 

[Meffer]

I am rereading the the manga from the beginning and I like the detail given to All Might's attire when he's out and about. His bathing suit when training Midoriya calls back to the 1950s era of striped bathing suits and his pinstripe business suit is reminiscent of the style of that era. Truly a superhero from the Silver Age.

Also, given how All Might's power works, it's an interesting bit of detail for All Might to tell Midoriya to keep his eyes and mouth closed when Midoriya latched onto his leg before jumping off. That drip of blood from his mouth may have entered through one of those two methods.

The thing is with passing OfA though that the holder has to willingly pass it on along with giving any form of DNA.

 

[Cerium]

>bluntly naming the sites
>not indirectly hinting at them

Didn't know you weren't allowed to even name the groups.

 

[SalvaPot]

Be cool and edit the post you quoted x).

 

[Moaradin]

Read the official Viz version if you can. Not really a fan of a lot of the liberties the fan translations take.

 

[silenttype01]

The thing is with passing OfA though that the holder has to willingly pass it on along with giving any form of DNA.

I thought the same as well, but I vaguely remember All Might stating that someone can also take the power by force, which is why he's protective about how the power actually works. It's also why I'm rereading the series. I just want to know if I read it correctly or not.

 

[MHWilliams]

But if you want to see what a powerless Deku, something close to what your describing is basically Mx0. It's a story about a guy who accidentally gets into a magic school despite him being magicless, and through various circumstances, he is viewed as one of the most powerful users in the school. It's something of a cult classic manga. A lot of people liked it, but it just never got the traction in popularity it needed and was canceled before it's time.

Mx0 was absolutely goddamn amazing and I was going to bring it up in response to the quirkless Deku discussion before you did.

Sad that it died before it really got going.

 

[cntr]

I thought the same as well, but I vaguely remember All Might stating that someone can also take the power by force, which is why he's protective about how the power actually works. It's also why I'm rereading the series. I just want to know if I read it correctly or not.

I assumed he was talking about

Spoiler

All for One

.

 

[Trojita]

I thought the same as well, but I vaguely remember All Might stating that someone can also take the power by force, which is why he's protective about how the power actually works. It's also why I'm rereading the series. I just want to know if I read it correctly or not.

I think he means in a case where you don't want to give it over but are forced to. Like if they had a loved one hostage. That's why Deku has to keep OfA secret.

 

[8 X 11 Printer Paper]

Mx0 was absolutely goddamn amazing and I was going to bring it up in response to the quirkless Deku discussion before you did.

Sad that it died before it really got going.

Feel bad for the mangka, both that and his previous work Pretty Face both got killed way to early. At least his current series Kiss x Death is doing well in SJ+.

 

[silenttype01]

Finally found it. Chapter 59, page 11

One For All won't transfer to a new recipient unless its user wishes it. So it can't be forcibly stolen - though it can be forcibly passed on.

Given the chocolate example shown in that panel, All Might could have forced Midoriya to inherit the power, regardless of whether Midoriya declined or is was unaware of the transfer taking place.

 

[cntr]

you know

why doesn't anybody online sell Deku's shoes??

 

[Trojita]

 

[Jintor]

you know

why doesn't anybody online sell Deku's shoes??

nobody wants to be on the receiving end of deku's kicks

 

[cntr]

deku's shoes would be a great "nerd" item

it's not like a headband or strawhat, they're just bomb-ass shoes

 

[Veelk]

That is one of the dumbest looking swords in shonen.

And that is saying something.

 

[cntr]

isn't it great

 

[Bowl0l]

Feel bad for the mangka, both that and his previous work Pretty Face both got killed way to early. At least his current series Kiss x Death is doing well in SJ+.

i thought Kiss x Death is going to end? All 5 prisoner seems to have captured Z's host body.

 

[Veelk]

Tsukuyomi is really my favorite. His quirk is dangerous as all hell, but too cool to not want.

 

[cntr]

I forgot Tokoyami's hero name was Tsukuyomi

Spoiler

what an edgelord

 

[Cerium]

Tsukuyomi is really my favorite. His quirk is dangerous as all hell, but too cool to not want.

Yeah, it's good. Under the right circumstances.

People shouldn't sleep on Todoroki though. Let's not forget that theoretically his power can scale infinitely since he can regulate his internal temperature due to the nature of his quirk (which is why Endeavor bred him like that in the first place). In time I'm expecting him to pull off shit like the Admirals of One Piece.

 

[Veelk]

I forgot Tokoyami's hero name was Tsukuyomi

Spoiler

what an edgelord

I bet he plays reaper in every overwatch match

 

[Veelk]

I think one of the reasons I like most of the cast is because of a fundamental rule of storytelling that I figured out long ago, like, back when I was first figuring out why I liked Batman and Naruto as my favorite heroes.

Their abilities come with a cost, not in physical harm, but in personal demons. When Batman's parents died, those things drove him to fight crime and to do that, he needed to be the best version of himself he could be. But while that pushed him to greatness, it also meant he is unable to have a normal relationship and cannot be happy. Similarly, Naruto may have a lot of power, but his acquirement of that power has lead to psychological issues that cause him distress.

I feel that this is how many of the characters of MHA are designed. Midoriya has his insecurity and timidness. Bakugo has his inferiority complex. Shoto has identity issues. Uraraka has confidence issues. Even minor characters, with Tokoyomi seeing himself as a monster that will attack his friends.

For me atleast, I can relate to personal issues like this pretty well and they are often the basis for forming good character drama, because the conflict then doesn't just rest between others, but with themselves.

 

[cntr]

And those kind of personal stories are at the core of superheroes and shounens. It's a good setup.

 

[8 X 11 Printer Paper]

i thought Kiss x Death is going to end? All 5 prisoner seems to have captured Z's host body.

......That's what I get for not reading the past 5 chapters >_>. Poor Mangaka, can't ever get a series to last over 2 years.

 

[Nightbird]

That is one of the dumbest looking swords in shonen.

And that is saying something.

I don't even know how this is supposed to work


I still like it!

 

[Veelk]

And with one final United States of Smash, the Era of All Might has come to an end.

Definitely a good ending to the arc. I wasn't feeling it as much at the beginning, but it really came to a head on a high point.

It's just wierd because it feels like the Manga is close to the end now, or atleast more than halfway done. With All Might having gone Obiwan on us, the top villain that's been hanging over this whole arc revealed and even captured, all that's left to really do is the final home stretch of Handyman's plan...which could evolve into something more convoluted, it might be that All For One comes back, but these are all forseeable endgoals that probably won't take too long to resolve. I still fully believe MHA has plenty of gas in the tank left, but I don't know what they'll do past chapter 200.

I mean, they could always introduce someone new, but lets not forget what happened to bleach when it tried to replace its main villain. I read earlier that there are some fans that wish it had more filler because they could spend time developing the side characters more and introducing new villains for everyone else to fight. Well, I don't know if I like them using the term filler, but the problem with MHA being lean is that you end up wanting more than there is.

Of course, I'm still not caught up yet. Only 10 or so more chapters to go, but still. And frankly, ending up the new Full Metal Alchemist wouldn't be the most terrible thing in the world. FMA easily had more idea's it could have used if it wanted, but it came in, told the story in a neat 108 chapter run, and then ended it at a good place and I respect that. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Cerium]

It's just wierd because it feels like the Manga is close to the end now, or atleast more than halfway done. With All Might having gone Obiwan on us, the top villain that's been hanging over this whole arc revealed and even captured, all that's left to really do is the final home stretch of Handyman's plan...which could evolve into something more convoluted, it might be that All For One comes back, but these are all forseeable endgoals that probably won't take too long to resolve. I still fully believe MHA has plenty of gas in the tank left, but I don't know what they'll do past chapter 200.

I'm willing to bet anything that we haven't seen the last of All For One. He even implied that getting caught is part of his plan to get Hand Job to grow up and become independent. He also has been implying for a while that he's collecting powers to eventually give to Hand Job. I'm sure All For One will break out or Hand Job will break him out at some point, and Hand Job will get all the powers.

Plus there's always school shit. We're not even past Year One.

I think this is really the story of Hand Job versus Deku and that story is just getting started. Did they ever run out of ways to pit Batman against the Joker? You're seeing this in terms of typical shonen structure, but I don't think that's what Horikoshi is going for.

 

[Jarmel]

The assumption is that Shigaraki inherents All For One in some manner thus mirroring Deku's growth. Horikoshi seems to be going the route of building both the protagonist and antagonist from nothing.

 

[Cerium]

The assumption is that Shigaraki inherents All For One in some manner thus mirroring Deku's growth. Horikoshi seems to be going the route of building both the protagonist and antagonist from nothing.

We already know that All For One can transfer stolen powers, that's how the Noumu and One For All were created.

If All For One can transfer itself then it does everything One For All can plus a lot more, and I don't like that idea.

I think All For One will simply transfer all of the stolen powers; remember he was collecting the powers he specifically thought Shigaraki would find useful. That's more than enough really.

 

[Veelk]

I'm willing to bet anything that we haven't seen the last of All For One. He even implied that getting caught is part of his plan to get Hand Job to grow up and become independent. He also has been implying for a while that he's collecting powers to eventually give to Hand Job. I'm sure All For One will break out or Hand Job will break him out at some point, and Hand Job will get all the powers.

Plus there's always school shit. We're not even past Year One.

I think this is really the story of Hand Job versus Deku and that story is just getting started. Did they ever run out of ways to pit Batman against the Joker? You're seeing this in terms of typical shonen structure, but I don't think that's what Horikoshi is going for.

I like comic books, but they have limitations that don't apply to manga. Mainly, they're owned by DC rather than any particular writer. I don't know how it works at Shonen Jump, but is there any doubt that if they could have continued Dragonball without Toriyama they would have? Or any popular series. They can do cartoonish spinoffs and the anime people can make Dragon Ball GT and all, but it seems to me that in Japan, the story ends where the mangaka say it does. I don't see it being any different here.

And that is HUGE. The reason Batman has a never ending fight with Joker isn't because it's narratively appropriate, it's DC needs to keep making new stories and they throw writers at the Joker wall until something sticks. If they end up with a bad joker story, no big deal, because there is always going to be a new one, and just using law of averages, something good will eventually stick. This also means that there is no way an author can actually end a villain. That's why the "why doesn't Batman just kill the joker" never really work, because Batman could personally see that Joker is launched on a rocket to the sun, and he could succeed, and we could personally see the Joker disintergrate on panel.....only for the next comic to go "Oh, that was just a body double". At this point, authors just leave their endings ambiguous so their stories finality isn't rendered moot by whoever they pass the buck to. So it's just a fundamentally different set up to most mediums.

That's not something that MHA has to worry about, so that means it needs to structure its narrative arc to have an actual end. Thus far, it seems pretty clear to me that there has been a meticulous plan in place. All Mights loss of power felt consistent, as has much of the side character development. So I definitely feel we are working to an end point, it's just that I feel it's approaching sooner than expected. The only way I see this working otherwise is if we are introduced to new major players pretty soon.

 

[cntr]

We started out with USJ as the first major arc, setting up the end of All Might. So it feels like that was meant to be "Act 1".

So going on that, we're in the setup stage for Act 2. Which I'm going to bet is the story of Deku and Shigaraki growing out of their mentor's shadows, and will build up to Shigaraki inheriting All for One.

Edit: So in a sense, Act 1 was the end of All Might and All for One's story, and Act 2 will be the beginning of Deku and Shigaraki's story. The generational transition for both heroes and villains.