ArgyleReptile
Banned
I wonder if the One for All power transfer idea is going to come back into play with Toga ingesting Deku's blood. I know One for All has to will the transfer, but that's still something that should be addressed right?
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My Hero Academia (Shonen Jump) move over pirates, ninjas, reapers, its Hero time
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ArgyleReptile
Banned
I forgot that Stain ingested some of Deku's blood. Nevermind then.
Yeah, Toga is a subversion of the classic shonen yandere archetype in that she is actually dangerous, we often only see this type of character in:an horror story, and usually by a girl with multiple personalities or that can't control herself but most of the time means well or "doesn't really want to hurt anyone". Also Yanderes usually go from sweet girls to ax-crazy and back a lot.
Toga so far is straight crazy. We know she already has blood on her hands and makes no effort to appear sweet or adjusted. She is a fun character and her obsessive highschool crush on Deku is what makes her interesting.
She is an horror character in a shonen setting.
Toga so far is straight crazy. We know she already has blood on her hands and makes no effort to appear sweet or adjusted. She is a fun character and her obsessive highschool crush on Deku is what makes her interesting.
She is an horror character in a shonen setting.
As I said, tropes aren't inherently bad. This is just a dangerous one to toy with.
Much like "The chosen one" trope. Can be done well, but you're playing with fire when you choose to employ it. MHA has more than earned enough credit to give it the benefit of the doubt. I'm just saying... This could end badly unless a lot of care is taken care of to avoid pitfalls. If nothing else, it'd be good to have another villain whose evilness isn't tied into her sexuality.
Much like "The chosen one" trope. Can be done well, but you're playing with fire when you choose to employ it. MHA has more than earned enough credit to give it the benefit of the doubt. I'm just saying... This could end badly unless a lot of care is taken care of to avoid pitfalls. If nothing else, it'd be good to have another villain whose evilness isn't tied into her sexuality.
Dedication Through Light
Member
When the chapters dont have anyone you care about in it, you can instantly see how weak the writer is. The double guy would have been cool if he hadnt had that dumb and uninteresting double doubt the real me plot.
The other burn antagonist was cool but so few lines.
The other burn antagonist was cool but so few lines.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Oh, DTL.
A better twitter account than GAF account tbh.
haha, Bakugou and Jirou have combinations of their parents name for their first names, Bakugou on the kanji (勝 Masaru + 光己 Mitsuki -> 勝己 Katsuki) and Jirou on the pronunciation (響徳 Kyoutoku + 実徳 Mika -> 響香 Kyouka).
Cute.
Cute.
Actually deets Twitter was getting increasingly non work safe.
Good thing I don't have time to check Twitter at work anymore
The Tsuyu side story is one of my favorite episodes, I'll love if we get more of those for all characters. For example, Mineta's first crush, Ochako's helping out in the farm, Iida's spending a day with his brother who is training.
The list goes on.
My Hero Academia 116
Tartarus was always a cool word, I like it. (I just want to make Persona jokes though)
I really like All for One's motivations, they're simple and not trying to be particularly "deep", and there's no ludicrous secret plan to revive the moon goddess or whatever
Guess the next major "act" is going to be Shigaraki trying to kill All MIght, possibly by disguising Toga as Deku?
Deku's text is adorable, and goddamn, what a cliffhanger!
Tartarus was always a cool word, I like it. (I just want to make Persona jokes though)
I really like All for One's motivations, they're simple and not trying to be particularly "deep", and there's no ludicrous secret plan to revive the moon goddess or whatever
Guess the next major "act" is going to be Shigaraki trying to kill All MIght, possibly by disguising Toga as Deku?
Deku's text is adorable, and goddamn, what a cliffhanger!
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
Ehhhh, I've always actually really disliked the whole "Why are you a villain?" "I like being evil." "Why do you like being evil?" "I like being evil." Just because you acknowledge you're an asshole doesn't suddenly make you some figure with tremendous depth, it's just you being an asshole. Kind of disappointed by the conversation as a whole honestly, rather be in that room with Stain.
Also snap! The fuck does Baku want to talk about???
Telling you guys, it was probably shooting out molasses from her fingers. I've got inside sources, trust me...
Also snap! The fuck does Baku want to talk about???
Telling you guys, it was probably shooting out molasses from her fingers. I've got inside sources, trust me...
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Oh man that ending. I have a feeling Bakugou will be cool about it though.
That Stain mention! It was cut off, on purpose most likely.
I was going to mention that for a contest for a far off bet will be guessing who will be the first one to notice Toga Deku isn't Deku. We might have too many duplicate winners though if a lot of people pick someone like Uraraka and she is the one.
That Stain mention! It was cut off, on purpose most likely.
I was going to mention that for a contest for a far off bet will be guessing who will be the first one to notice Toga Deku isn't Deku. We might have too many duplicate winners though if a lot of people pick someone like Uraraka and she is the one.
NHarmonic.
Member
I want to know if that were the exact words Bakugou used. Maybe he's finally over the Deku hate.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
God I fucking hope not. I want him to double down and be like he's pissed Deku is doing better than him with borrowed power. I feel like the big conflict next time is going to revolve around the idea of "borrowed" and whether it counts as Deku's or not?
"I like to be evil" has always been the best motivation for a villain, ever. (Though All for One is more "I wish to become the permanently remembered ideal of villainy".)
Most complex motivations fail to be compelling or come off as pretentious nonsense, a simple comic-book-like motivation is really appealing to me. Sure, it might not be super realistic or deep, but the series hasn't ever pretended otherwise.
Also, I appreciate that Deku is listed as "Midoriya, my boy" in All Might's contacts list.
Most complex motivations fail to be compelling or come off as pretentious nonsense, a simple comic-book-like motivation is really appealing to me. Sure, it might not be super realistic or deep, but the series hasn't ever pretended otherwise.
Also, I appreciate that Deku is listed as "Midoriya, my boy" in All Might's contacts list.
OniBarubary
Banned
I wouldn't be surprised if they used Toga to look like Deku and assassinate All Might at this point.
My prediction is that Toga-Deku will try to lure All Might out, and then he'll be attacked by the actual assassination team. I can't imagine it being as simple as Toga trying to stab All Might with a knife. Then the heroes arrive, and there's a proper act-ending battle.
Incidentally, I wonder if it's coincidence or intended that there's a discussion about Tartarus being a Greek legend and All for One then talking about how he wants to become a legend?
Incidentally, I wonder if it's coincidence or intended that there's a discussion about Tartarus being a Greek legend and All for One then talking about how he wants to become a legend?
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I don't mind "I like to be evil" as a motivator but I hate it when something acknowledges it being like "did you expect something different? Some grand motivation? Haha fuck you. I'm evil." It's a pet peeve of mine because it's so... cheap. And then turns around to try and play it off like its a bold move. It's not. I hate it so much when stories do that and A4O fell down my villain's list pretty far because of it. Especially since Stain is doing the whole "Ideal for villainy" thing way better than this old fart.
Poodlestrike
Banned
"I Like to be Evil" is a good motive for a Big Bad. Allows them to be utterly uncompromising, and ensures we don't get all caught up in their motives.
Bakugou character development yasssss
Bakugou character development yasssss
My impression is that All Might somehow permacrippled All for One, like, he gave Noumu a super-regeneration quirk so good that it regrew nearly half of Noumu's body...but All for One's still totally fucked. There's other comments like saying that he "lost his stockpile of quirks" that implies there's more going on with the All for One's revival and quirk than we've seen.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
Honestly, the entire Villian Alliance is pretty bad at being villainous the more you think about it. Like they're spooky, but so far they only really succeeded at kidnapping Baku for like a day before they lost him. They're not that good at their jobs honestly.
OniBarubary
Banned
That was literally the best part of 8mm.
A lot of villains are melodramatic about it, but let's be honest, people don't need reasons or excuses to be pieces of shit that hurt or take advantage of others. Sometimes shitty people or "evil people" are just...well shitty or evil people.
I don't think it's cheap at all. Embellishing it a bit is kinda corny sometimes but I'd probably say it's realistic when you look at serial killers or great monsters throughout history. Some dictators who slaughtered thousands upon thousands upon thousands did a lot of shit just so history would remember them.
I don't mind "I like being evil" itself as a motive, but it depends on how it's depicted. I like how MHA did it, though. In fact, "I like being evil" is a bit of a reduction. A4O, for whatever reason, views evil as a ideal, something to strive to be. He talks about himself as a normal person, doing the same things they do (entrusting the next generation), just that he takes another path to it. For example, he seems to treat his minions with some measure of respect and in the case of Shigaraki, even affection, but he talks about society's fear and anxiety as a positive thing. "Evil is good" seems to be his real argument, though he refuses to give his reasons for why the chaos and fear he sows will benefit society in the long run. Additionally, he just seems to like to stick it in the eye of All Might whenever he has the opportunity, so personal hatred of him also plays a factor. I'm just curious if he hates All Might because he is the opposite of all his ideals, or if he decided to oppose all of All Might's ideal's because he hates him.
The problem with that is that is never how the villains themselves thought of themselves.
I remember reading about one serial killer, john wayne gacy I think but can't look it up right now, that he sincerely thought that he just did what everyone wanted to do, but was afraid to. They didn't think of themselves as evil...he pictured themselves as normal in fact, other than that they act on their impulses.
That's the problem with "I like being evil". Even if they do, no one thinks they like being evil. They think they like doing things that are okay for them to do, even if they're not.
The problem with that is that is never how the villains themselves thought of themselves.
I remember reading about one serial killer, john wayne gacy I think but can't look it up right now, that he sincerely thought that he just did what everyone wanted to do, but was afraid to. They didn't think of themselves as evil...he pictured themselves as normal in fact, other than that they act on their impulses.
That's the problem with "I like being evil". Even if they do, no one thinks they like being evil. They think they like doing things that are okay for them to do, even if they're not.
It's a simple goal keeping in with the themes of the series. It's as All for One said, the series is about being a hero for the sake of heroism, Of course the villains are going to be villains for the sake of villainy, there's no need to be more complicated than that. They're parallel ideals, somewhat idealistic ideals, but that's what the series is about.
Edit: Yeah, and Veelk says, All for One treats it like a "real" ideal, he's not stereotype evil. He still acts and makes decisions like a real human being.
Edit: Yeah, and Veelk says, All for One treats it like a "real" ideal, he's not stereotype evil. He still acts and makes decisions like a real human being.
Except it is more complicated than that already. Striving for heroism has already been put in question by Stain. While straight up "Do I protect this person" questions are obvious, more complicated stuff like "How do I justify taking this young kid into a dangerous world" are more problematic, and that's something that All Might struggled in chapter 1. A true reflection would have to struggle with similar questions.
Honestly, if it were truly simple, I wouldn't like MHA. I like complexity.
Yeah, agreed. The ideal is simple, but the execution is complicated.
My impression is that All for One doesn't care about All Might's ideals except as a way to try and piss him off, but hates him for killing his comrades and crippling him. And I can't imagine All for One not being pissed off at the successors of the brother who "betrayed" him.
As for why All Might's ideals and All for One's ideals are so diametrically opposed, my guess is that the original One for All developed the ideals to oppose his brother, and every successor of One for All has chosen to be the kind of person who'd maintain those ideals. Which makes sense, people like All Might and Deku aren't exactly the types to compromise on heroism.
OniBarubary
Banned
Well that's the thing, I don't think All For One is saying going "I love twirling my mustache and tying people to railroad tracks" I think he is legitimately saying "You have labeled these things in society as evil, that's total bullshit and I love the things you people say are evil" which are probably selfish and, as all "evil" people, hypocritical things. I have very little doubt he thinks much better of himself than a lot of people and believes in very selfish ideals (his name is All For One). Look as it less of generic evil and more like career criminals. People robbing banks, gangs shooting up people, mobs selling drugs. Those are pretty shitty things that they're completely okay with and often romanticize or glorify. Look at Scarface. Look at Bonnie and Clyde. They're not sitting back and going "We're so fucking dastardly" but they are pretty much loving doing all this awful shit that breaks all the laws.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
Ah, you guys are killing me right now, especially since I can think of at least five different villains off the top of my head with fairly similar schticks that I think are way better. Veelk's right, boiling him down to "I'm evil!" is a bit of an injustice but not as much as it should be. Especially since (and this is what kills me) someone is doing a better job at all of this WITHIN THIS VERY MANGA! Stain's such a better villain then him in every regard and he is essentially doing the whole "Ideal" thing so much better that it pains me to see him sit atop the throne of "big bad" when he really doesn't deserve it. Like, no one knows who this guy is! In the world's eye, he just shows up! Yeah sure, he's always been here in the shadows but the outcasts aren't going "Man, I sure want to be like A40" No, they're all dressing up like Stain. Because Stain is doing this schtick infinitly better.
Again, Veelk is also right in that if he really hated All Might that be atleast something since it would tie into a whole Lex Luther v. Superman thing. But even Lex doesn't hate Supes because Lex is a jerk, he hates Supes because he belittles the human race as a whole. And I can get behind the feeling of belittlement much better than a feeling of "I want to be an ideal of a person!"
Again, Veelk is also right in that if he really hated All Might that be atleast something since it would tie into a whole Lex Luther v. Superman thing. But even Lex doesn't hate Supes because Lex is a jerk, he hates Supes because he belittles the human race as a whole. And I can get behind the feeling of belittlement much better than a feeling of "I want to be an ideal of a person!"
Well, to answer your first question, true sociopaths, which I'm not sure that A4O is, generally don't have much hypocrisy to them. Sometimes they do, they mostly operate on amorality. They have senses of self preservation so in the moment, they have rage toward opposition, but by and large hold no grudges when the wrong things they do are done to them. Part of it is because they get bored easily and holding grudges takes effort, but otherwise they often admit that if they were in their enemy's position, they'd do everything to screw the other person over themselves. So far, A4O hasn't really displayed any hypocrisy. He agrees to say they don't see eye to eye, and he had a personal hatred of All Might, but he doesn't seem to think he's wrong for trying to save the world his way while he does the same thing.
But anyway, I think the comparisons you make don't really apply because criminals like Scarface and Bonnie and Clyde luxuriated in their power. They took pleasure in committing crimes because it's an expression of dominance, that society's rules didn't apply to them. That hasn't happened with A4O. The only person he tries to put down is All Might. But the people he has actual power over, Shigaraki and the other villains, he actually treats respectfully. This is key, because in their first mission, they failed. If he was scarface, he'd be furious at them and do the stereotyipical "You have failed me" shtick, because he wasn't able to exert dominance over heroes through them. But he was very calm, considerate, and reasonable. That just doesn't jive if he's supposed to seek dominance ala scarface.
Like I said, all we can say about his motivation is that he sees evil as an ideal to strive for, for reasons unknown.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
Can we just talk about Shigaraki? Because I feel like the greatest tragedy of A4O is that he is overshadowing just what a good villain Shigaraki is. I love that kid, I think he's great, way more interesting a foe, and I love his own character development that's been happening even though its mostly been off screen.
OniBarubary
Banned
A4O's power is literally to take other people's power and control it. That's dominance and power pure and simple. Him not being a total asshole to his groomed heir and his friends doesn't really mean he's not a dude who likes control or power. Bonnie and Clyde to use a previous example were the "above the rules" and power villains who liked stealing but they genuinely loved each other. Being a shitty person or criminal doesn't disqualify you from loving someone or caring for someone or still having very human and emotional connections.
Of course A4O didn't tear them a new asshole for failing. He wants Shigaraki to grow and is grooming him because he actually cares for him and wants him to succeed in A4O's plans where A4O failed because Shigaraki isn't someone that he brainwashed and told lies to convince to become a pawn, he's someone he saw get fucked in the ways that A4O can't stand hero society lets happen and knew he would take up his mantle willingly and with fervor. A4O probably also realizes that fear and indiscriminate murder of failures will never let these kids and amateurs actually mature or reach his ideals. He doesn't exactly have time on his side to keep killing and replacing people and that's a super ineffective way to actually get your shit done.
I just don't think we have a ton to go on with what his "ideals" are but I definitely think they're not "evil is great because good is dumb" He has way more substance than that and when he's talking about being evil or liking evil it's definitely with some hidden context.
He's not a sociopath but I think his entire quirk is based around control and power and don't think for a second that he isn't at least somewhat motivated by that in the same way that criminals do stuff because they can or can get away with it. Maybe he just thinks doing stuff you can do because you have the strength to do it is the ideal way to live? Who knows.
Of course A4O didn't tear them a new asshole for failing. He wants Shigaraki to grow and is grooming him because he actually cares for him and wants him to succeed in A4O's plans where A4O failed because Shigaraki isn't someone that he brainwashed and told lies to convince to become a pawn, he's someone he saw get fucked in the ways that A4O can't stand hero society lets happen and knew he would take up his mantle willingly and with fervor. A4O probably also realizes that fear and indiscriminate murder of failures will never let these kids and amateurs actually mature or reach his ideals. He doesn't exactly have time on his side to keep killing and replacing people and that's a super ineffective way to actually get your shit done.
I just don't think we have a ton to go on with what his "ideals" are but I definitely think they're not "evil is great because good is dumb" He has way more substance than that and when he's talking about being evil or liking evil it's definitely with some hidden context.
He's not a sociopath but I think his entire quirk is based around control and power and don't think for a second that he isn't at least somewhat motivated by that in the same way that criminals do stuff because they can or can get away with it. Maybe he just thinks doing stuff you can do because you have the strength to do it is the ideal way to live? Who knows.
NHarmonic.
Member
It'd be great development for Bakugou, tbh. He can still be abrasive and ill-mannered, but be over the deku-hater demeanor. I don't think we need that character to be defined by that as the only noticeable trait.
BassForever
Member
This has always been my belief
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I'd hate it so much though. Besides he's not defined by just that, far from it at this point. Stories are driven by their conflicts and Baku hating Deku is such a great conflict to drive their story together. You get rid of that, and I think their characters both suffer greatly because of it. Besides, why would he get off the Deku train? Deku passed the exam. Baku did not. This kid who is continuing to build up self-confidence issues and watching this kid, this kid he once saw as a lesser than him, clearly being chosen by his hero instead of him. I can't see Baku getting off it because it, in my mind, straight up ruins his entire character. We all want character development into well-rounded people but what no one ever realizes until too late is that well-rounded people are boring and do not exist well in stories because they no long have problems. That's why I've always loved the character development where characters turn into more of assholes instead. That's always way better.
That's not power or dominance, that's just how his quirk functions. By that same token, you could say that All Might has a dominant and controlling personality because his work allows him to overpower all others. Besides, this is something that the manga itself specially goes out of it's way to argue against. The first opponent in the entrance examinations is that guy with mind control powers. That is probably the definition of dominance, yet his personality is nothing like that.
So we can't use quirks as evidence of characters unless you also want to throw in All Might, Midoriya, Todoroki, Eraserhead, or any number of people whose quirks can be used to exert power as also being domineering. The only one who's shown even shades of this is Bakugou, since his quirk is something he let get to his head as an idea of being better than others. But he's literally the only one, and anyone who talks to him about it makes it clear that's wrongheaded, even other powerful people.
But that doesn't change the fact with that kind of personality, he'd atleast be frustrated with him. But that's not the case at all. He's incredibly out of character for someone whose supposed to be on any kind of power trip.
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