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[Chris R]

Spoiler

The Maquis is relevant for all of maybe a half dozen Voyager episodes. The crew is almost instantly integrated and conflict never happens between the mixed crew.

Well, just finished season 1 of Voyager, and it did come up a few times.

Didn't enjoy it too much, but then again I don't think I started watching Voyager until like Season 3 when it originally aired.

And with all this DS9 love I guess I'll have to go back and give that a watch after I finish my Voyager run, even though I remember hating the bits and parts of the episodes I saw when it was on TV.

 

[Box of Kittens]

DS9 is the best Trek series. Also Season 4 of Enterprise is one of the best seasons of Trek period besides the finale. Season 3 of Enterprise is pretty great too.

Season 4 was definitely my favorite season of Enterprise, although I wouldn't quite go so far as to rank it among Trek's best. I liked that it really brought focus to the series by spending more time on telling the story of how the Federation came to be, but some of the stories really felt really gratuitous in how they would reference the other series. Most of the season works, but some of it really just feels like pandering. And, yes, even though it's been said many times before, that finale was an abomination.

 

[jb1234]

Season 4 was definitely my favorite season of Enterprise, although I wouldn't quite go so far as to rank it among Trek's best. I liked that it really brought focus to the series by spending more time on telling the story of how the Federation came to be, but some of the stories really felt really gratuitous in how they would reference the other series. Most of the season works, but some of it really just feels like pandering. And, yes, even though it's been said many times before, that finale was an abomination.

My biggest problem with season 4 was that it chose plot over character. For all of season 3's flaws (my personal favorite season of the show), it at least had a great recurring guest character and some very interesting character work for T'Pol (and to a lesser extent Archer). I can't think of a single noteworthy character moment in season 4 because the multi-part arcs leave no room for anything other than the characters doing their jobs.

 

[TyrantII]

Well, just finished season 1 of Voyager, and it did come up a few times.

Didn't enjoy it too much, but then again I don't think I started watching Voyager until like Season 3 when it originally aired.

And with all this DS9 love I guess I'll have to go back and give that a watch after I finish my Voyager run, even though I remember hating the bits and parts of the episodes I saw when it was on TV.

Honestly, Voyager you can skip any episode that doesn't revolve around Jeri Ryan of Robert Piccardo. Their character centric episodes were the only ones worth watching.

 

[Dalthien]

(That said, seasons 4-6 are remarkably consistent television. I leave out the final season because there's too much Ezri, a somewhat disappointing finale and too many fluff episodes. Seriously, does anyone give a fuck about Vic and his stupid lounge?)

Well, there's at least me and my wife that enjoyed Vic. We had a blast with him - even ended up buying the James Darren CD "This One's From the Heart" where he sang all the songs that he performed on DS9. And he was in several really strong episodes, including ones such as "It's Only a Paper Moon", where Vic was central to the episode. (And "Badda-Bing Badda-Bang" was a lot of fun as well).

Then again, I'm also a big Ezri fan, and you didn't seem to care for her either. I enjoyed

Spoiler

Jadzia

early in the show, but she was really the only character that didn't really grow or develop at all during the course of the series. I thought she had gotten really stale by the middle of the series, and Ezri was a huge breath of fresh air that I really enjoyed.

But yeah, both of those aspects (Vic + Ezri) of season 7 seem to be very polarizing for most fans of the show.

Edited to add spoiler tags - I'm not sure how much Cindi knows about the show, and I don't want to spoil anything.

 

[DrForester]

Bashir is supposed to be annoying? I like him!

I love his relationship with O'Brien. Wish I'd see more of that friendship soon!

Season 1 Bashir was totally insufferable.

 

[firehawk12]

I can't remember the story with Vic, but it took someone to point out the problematic nature of having black people pretend to be a part of American society in the early 20th century for them to actually do that episode where Sisko refused to join the crew in their stupid Vic adventures. I think it's perhaps the only time that Star Trek actively acknowledges the racist history of pre-Utopian earth.

 

[butalala]

Bashir is supposed to be annoying? I like him!

I love his relationship with O'Brien. Wish I'd see more of that friendship soon!

You'll get there. That friendship is one of the best things that Star Trek ever did.

My biggest problem with season 4 was that it chose plot over character. For all of season 3's flaws (my personal favorite season of the show), it at least had a great recurring guest character and some very interesting character work for T'Pol (and to a lesser extent Archer). I can't think of a single noteworthy character moment in season 4 because the multi-part arcs leave no room for anything other than the characters doing their jobs.

Speaking as someone that has really only seen season 4 of ENT (and a few episodes of s1), they made the right call.

I think it's perhaps the only time that Star Trek actively acknowledges the racist history of pre-Utopian earth.

Did you forget about this?

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Season 1 Bashir was totally insufferable.

He feels out of place, but "insufferable" seems extreme.

 

[JeffZero]

Re: Vic, he's my ex-wife's second favorite character.

Minor S7 spoilers since Cindi isn't there yet:

Spoiler

Also, "It's Only A Paper Moon" is so so so good. And that's Vic supreme.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Necessary Evil - fucking fantastic and I love Odo. Best log in the series.

 

[jb1234]

Necessary Evil - fucking fantastic and I love Odo. Best log in the series.

One of Trek's best.

 

[Lyriell]

I envy the fact you will get to experience 'In the pale moonlight' for the first time. It is possibly one of the best episodes of anything I have ever seen.

Enjoy it!


Also... Garak is awesome.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Necessary Evil - fucking fantastic and I love Odo. Best log in the series.

I pretty much love everything about this episode. The character development is fantastic and Terok Nor makes for such a great setting.

Unfortunately, it's followed by what I would consider the weakest stretch of the season. The episodes that follow generally aren't total disasters, and there's one episode in there I would consider truly great, but most of the upcoming episodes have some significant flaws even when they work on some level. The final third of the season though is as consistently good as Trek gets.

 

[jb1234]

I pretty much love everything about this episode. The character development is fantastic and Terok Nor makes for such a great setting.

Unfortunately, it's followed by what I would consider the weakest stretch of the season. The episodes that follow generally aren't total disasters, and there's one episode in there I would consider truly great, but most of the upcoming episodes have some significant flaws even when they work on some level. The final third of the season though is as consistently good as Trek gets.

Yeah, it takes until "Armageddon Game" for the show to pick up again. Great O'Brien/Bashir episode.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I can't remember the story with Vic, but it took someone to point out the problematic nature of having black people pretend to be a part of American society in the early 20th century for them to actually do that episode where Sisko refused to join the crew in their stupid Vic adventures. I think it's perhaps the only time that Star Trek actively acknowledges the racist history of pre-Utopian earth.

It comes up plenty, both for being central parts of an episode, and in some ways just by the effects of time in hindsight (like the fact that Kirk explains away Spock in 1930s Earth as being a Chinaman who got his ears caught in a rice picker.)

You're right that it rarely comes up in the holodeck episodes themselves, and really from a real-world perspective and a fictional one it makes sense—people want to play around in an idealized setting not the actual world as it was. "This entertainment needs more racism for me to really feel like I'm in the setting!" said no on in Starfleet ever.

And Sisko probably just had that objection in his pocket so he didn't have to do the stupid Vic adventures. The amount of holodeck capering in DS9 got pretty insufferable. Even Voyager did more interesting things with it (or at least admitted they were schlocky, in the case of the Captain Proton stuff.)

 

[TheYanger]

It comes up plenty, both for being central parts of an episode, and in some ways just by the effects of time in hindsight (like the fact that Kirk explains away Spock in 1930s Earth as being a Chinaman who got his ears caught in a rice picker.)

You're right that it rarely comes up in the holodeck episodes themselves, and really from a real-world perspective and a fictional one it makes sense—people want to play around in an idealized setting not the actual world as it was. "This entertainment needs more racism for me to really feel like I'm in the setting!" said no on in Starfleet ever.

And Sisko probably just had that objection in his pocket so he didn't have to do the stupid Vic adventures. The amount of holodeck capering in DS9 got pretty insufferable. Even Voyager did more interesting things with it (or at least admitted they were schlocky, in the case of the Captain Proton stuff.)

I mean, to be fair, it was Avery Brooks that had that problem, in universe I doubt hardly anyone would give a shit that far in the future (Just like we don't generally get upset if our movies about ancient Rome are inaccurate in ways like that), He didn't want to do the episode without them addressing it so they did. In the end it works fine to me, they always portrayed Sisko as having a deep kind of historical connection and respect for African artifacts and history and such, so I think if we can buy that future people have nostalgia somehow for that era of Vegas, that someone can have some historical beef with the racism of the era too. To my mind neither would really be something anyone was thinking about that far in the future if we got right down to it.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Unfortunately, it's followed by what I would consider the weakest stretch of the season. The episodes that follow generally aren't total disasters, and there's one episode in there I would consider truly great, but most of the upcoming episodes have some significant flaws even when they work on some level. The final third of the season though is as consistently good as Trek gets.

The characters help carry these episodes and make them more bearable. That's the sign of a quality show.

 

[Box of Kittens]

The characters help carry these episodes and make them more bearable. That's the sign of a quality show.

I think that's a fair assessment. Even when these episodes have weaknesses in their plots there's usually some good character work. There will be some really bad episodes in later seasons, where even the characters can't save the episode, but none of these sink to that level.

I will say that I absolutely hated Sanctuary when I first saw it, and in fact at one time I did consider it one of the worst episodes of the series, but I've since softened my stance on it. I still don't think it's a good episode, but I do have more of an appreciation for what it was trying to pull off and just how hard that was. One of the things that really killed the episode for me the first time I saw it was just how annoying the Skreeans are, but I can see now that they're meant to be a bit off-putting for the viewer. They're trying to show how different the Skreean culture is from Bajoran (and our) culture as part of the immigration allegory.

Where Sanctuary ultimately fails for me is that it wants you to see at the end that the Skreeans have a point, hence Kira having no response to the Skreean leader's speech at the end. The problem here is, quite simply, the Skreeans don't have a point. At all. The episode simply stacks the deck against them too much by having the alternative to settlement on Bajor being given their own planet, their reasons for wanting to settle on Bajor in the first place be pretty weak, and all the Bajoran objections to letting the Skreeans settle on Bajor be perfectly reasonable. It makes the whole speech at the end ring very hollow. Even if you agree with her assessment of the Bajorans, it's hard to come up with supporting evidence from just this episode (hence from the Skreeans' experiences). The Bajoran skepticism of the Skreeans' ability to cultivate land that the Bajorans themselves can't seems pretty justified. I can see what they were going for by trying to have a race that comes off as rather unpleasant but then having the viewer realize that they actually could have helped the Bajorans had they been given a chance, but it just doesn't work.

There's a number of other issues with Sanctuary, but that's really the big problem. I admire the episode's ambitions and I understand that what they were trying was tough to pull off, which is why I like it better than I used to. It's just too bad that it didn't really work in the end.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I have no idea what the point of Sanctuary was. I still liked it.

 

[jb1234]

I have no idea what the point of Sanctuary was. I still liked it.

It's a conceptually interesting episode but the execution is pretty lackluster. It still has one of my favorite "fuck you" moments when Haneek tells off Kira at the end.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

Has the OP seen In The Pale Moonlight yet? That's IMO is the best Star Trek thing ever.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Has the OP seen In The Pale Moonlight yet? That's IMO is the best Star Trek thing ever.

I dunno, it's up there, but there's also:

Errand of Mercy
The City on the Edge of Forever
Mirror, Mirror
The Doomsday Machine
The Trouble With Tribbles
Star Trek 2
Star Trek 6
The Measure of a Man
Q Who
The Survivors
The Most Toys
Reunion
The Nth Degree
Chain of Command
All Good Things
Duet
The Wire
Improbable Cause/The Die Is Cast
The Way of the Warrior
The Visitor
Hard Time
Nor the Battle to the Strong
Trials and Tribble-ations
Rapture
For the Uniform
In Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light
In the Cards
Waltz
Far Beyond the Stars
Tacking into the Wind

There's a lot of top tier trek. I'd struggle to name one episode personally. Maybe Q Who?

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Disagree that the stretch after Necessary Evil is bad.

I liked every episode after that so far.

The Alternate I like A LOT. Odo may be my favorite character on DS9 so far.

 

[TheYanger]

Disagree that the stretch after Necessary Evil is bad.

I liked every episode after that so far.

The Alternate I like A LOT. Odo may be my favorite character on DS9 so far.

I feel like something is going to go horribly wrong and you're going to end up hating episodes that are good. Looking at the list of what came after...I mean they're not unwatchable but those episodes are definitely in the lower tier of ds9 (the not very good tier)

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I feel like something is going to go horribly wrong and you're going to end up hating episodes that are good. Looking at the list of what came after...I mean they're not unwatchable but those episodes are definitely in the lower tier of ds9 (the not very good tier)

I didn't say they were very good. Enjoyable and very good are not mutually exclusive. I've liked every episode in the series so far.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Armageddon Game - fuck yes, I thought Odo was my fave but O'BRIEN.


BASHIR/CHIEF BUDDY ADVENTURE

KEIKO AND CHIEF FOR BEST TREK COUPLE

 

[fester]

So far I am:

DS9 > TOS >>> TNG

What...I can't even. Where to start? This thread is just something else.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

What...I can't even. Where to start? This thread is just something else.

What's there to start on? How is there anything unusual or wrong about my ranking?

It's interesting how no one has really managed to tell me why they think TNG is so good. When I said I can't understand the fascination with Doctor Crusher on my Facebook, people en masse came together to question my taste without articulating why they think she's a good character. I'm convinced most of TNG's fans who grew up with it like it because they grew up with it rather than actually liking the structure and characterization of the show. If you can't explain why something is good, I have nothing to say, and I'm not sure why it should be a foregone conclusion that anyone and everyone would prefer TNG to TOS or DS9.

 

[Silent Chief]

I was never a big fan of the original Star Trek when I watched it growing up.
Too much theatrics. Not enough story telling. No character development.
In the 60s, it was progressive to have a multi-ethnic crew.
So you have a black woman answering the phone, a Russian and a Japanese doing mundane jobs and 3 white men playing the important parts.
The stories were takes on the Vietnam war, the cold war, racism and other issues that will never be part of my experience. There's very little about actual interactions with real aliens.
You're more likely to encounter 50's mobsters or Roman legionnaires.

I really liked the Next Generation and I kept watching reruns of it during the 8 years I was in university. Deep Space 9 wasn't as good, but I still watched it while I gave up after 1 season of Voyager. I much preferred Babylon 5.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I find the racism stories in TOS to speak to me in a large way.

I also don't see how TNG has better character development than TOS and its movies.

 

[XOMTOR]

What's there to start on? How is there anything unusual or wrong about my ranking?

It's interesting how no one has really managed to tell me why they think TNG is so good. When I said I can't understand the fascination with Doctor Crusher on my Facebook, people en masse came together to question my taste without articulating why they think she's a good character. I'm convinced most of TNG's fans who grew up with it like it because they grew up with it rather than actually liking the structure and characterization of the show. If you can't explain why something is good, I have nothing to say, and I'm not sure why it should be a foregone conclusion that anyone and everyone would prefer TNG to TOS or DS9.

I dunno about anyone else but to me TNG actually feels like Star Trek:

- follows a similar formula as the original.
- lots of space exploration, different planets and races
- takes place on the Enterprise

Plus:

- Patrick Stewart
- Data was such an amazing and memorable character; always aspiring to be more human.
- It introduced Q and The Borg
- spawned a few decent movies

To me, DS9 doesn't feel like Star Trek; always felt like a spinoff and doesn't appeal to my inner geek nearly as much.

 

[kess]

The stories were takes on the Vietnam war, the cold war, racism and other issues that will never be part of my experience. There's very little about actual interactions with real aliens.
You're more likely to encounter 50's mobsters or Roman legionnaires.

What? The Horta, Giant Lizard Man, Proto-Q, Talking Time Portal, Flying Pancakes, Pure Energy Beings, Omnipotent Man Children, Happy Spore Plants, Extradimensional Aliens, and Clint Howard... the second and third seasons are another story, though. But even then, you have episodes like Metamorphosis, Obsession, Journey to Babel, Tholian Web, Day of the Dove...

 

[SigmasonicX]

I believe the crux of the matter is that Cindi places considerable stock in character development and stories that focus on the characters, while that's much less of a priority for many other people.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

What's there to start on? How is there anything unusual or wrong about my ranking?

I agree with your rankings, although not the distance between TOS and TNG. DS9 had the best story telling by far, and TNG had a lot of clangers at either end of the show, and a fair few in between. It's highs are exceptionally high though. Stuff like Q Who, Measure of a Man and The Survivors was exceptional television.

DS9 is fantastic because its characters are superb. It has recurring characters like garak, jake and quark who are far superior to 90% of the full time TNG crew. Worf only became a decent character after he joined DS9. It tells long term stories with generally good payoffs. It challenges gene's utopian vision while not sneering at it. It's the best star trek show.

Shoutout to TOS's Kirk-Spock-McCoy character dynamic though. That's never been bettered. I watch Star trek V purely for that first ten minutes which is just them.

 

[Jackpot]

Necessary Evil - fucking fantastic and I love Odo. Best log in the series.

heh

At the request of Commander Sisko, I will hereafter be recording a daily log of law enforcement affairs. The reason for this exercise is beyond my comprehension, except perhaps that Humans have a compulsion to keep records and lists and files - so many, in fact, that they have to invent new ways to store them microscopically, otherwise their records would overrun all known civilization. My own very adequate memory not being good enough for Starfleet, I am pleased to put my voice to this official record of this day:

Everything's under control.

End log.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I dunno about anyone else but to me TNG actually feels like Star Trek:

- follows a similar formula as the original.
- lots of space exploration, different planets and races
- takes place on the Enterprise

Plus:

- Patrick Stewart
- Data was such an amazing and memorable character; always aspiring to be more human.
- It introduced Q and The Borg
- spawned a few decent movies

To me, DS9 doesn't feel like Star Trek; always felt like a spinoff and doesn't appeal to my inner geek nearly as much.

TNG doesn't have much actual space exploration. It's very political. They're not discovering too many new races in TNG. in TOS, they face the dangers of space. Who knows what's going to happen? In TNG, they'll gather around their corny table and talk about it, and then if there's a menacing alien, they'll talk to it too. And then they'll find out it just wanted understanding after all.

What space exploration does TNG really have? Most of the aliens we encounter come aboard Enterprise are delegates, politicians, scientists, people of import.

Although TNG has aliens, it doesn't go into those aliens in any meaningful way. What alien race in TNG has the depth of what we learn about the Vulkans, Romulans, or even Klingons in TNG compared to TOS? None of them, besides Klingons. The one new big alien race TNG introduces are Ferengi and Borg, and Borg are given more detail outside of TNG and rarely show up. Ferengi are two-dimensional and act as caricatures. Cardassians and Bojurans, two races DS9 helped fill out, including Ferengi. What about the Q? What did the Q really add to TNG besides the occasional one shot great episode? What exactly do we know about the Q as a race rather than Q the standalone character? Based on TNG, barely anything.

Most episodes in TNG are on the Enterprise and Enterprise only. There's not much actual space exploration, not compared to TOS. It lacks the danger and excitement of TOS as well, while lacking the personal and in depth look at the various races that make up Trek like DS9.

TNG is a master of none.

What I enjoy from Trek the most Is the philosophy mixed with the aliens. I'm not sure how you don't get what you enjoy about Trek from DS9. The alien planets were only ever a backdrop for the stories that occur in Star Trek. It's the stories that matter, not the settings.

Star Trek is ultimately about multiculturalism and living with and accepting people different from us. No Star Trek embodies this trademark more than Deep Space Nine - a story about people who have to merely deal with living with each other, giving multiculturalism its greatest test. The beauty of DS9 is the none of these people would be friends OUTSIDE of DS9, but DS9 brings them together to learn to appreciate and learn from each other through its pitfalls and setbacks. Is that not Roddenberry's ultimate goal with Star Trek?

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I believe the crux of the matter is that Cindi places considerable stock in character development and stories that focus on the characters, while that's much less of a priority for many other people.

I like character development, subplots, and overarching plots. I'm also huge on philosophical episodes.

In DS9 and TOS there's a lot going on:

Keiko starting a school for the children, Miles' and Keiko's marriage spats from living in DS9, McCoy and Spock's relationship tension, the Federation war with the Klingon's, Nog and Jake's unlikely friendship, the Bajoran political intrigue, Sisqo dealing with the death of his wife, Kirk's racism towards Klingon's.

Things should evolve, and things should continue from season to season or movie to movie. Kirk deals with the death of his son at the hands of Klingon's for multiple movies. It's actually one of the core parts of VI's entire plot. Meanwhile, Picard gets TORTURED ("how many lights?") and the show never brings it up again. Characters should develop. Shows should never forget. Things should happen for a reason.

DS9 handles Picard's transformation into a Borg better than TNG. TNG has only one episode showing the after math of his Borg transformation with the episode with his brother. But it's never brought up again. No scenes with him talking to Troi about it, no waking up from night sweats with labored breathing. It's as if it never happened. Meanwhile, Sisqo still thinks of his wife. He mentions the anniversary of her death, Jake says he misses her. This is a man who lost almost everything, and is still rebuilding himself after the fact. It matters, and we see her die on episode one. Picard turned into a Borg on season 2's finale and had five whole other seasons. No mention, no care, no development.

So any time someone brings up characters as a reason for TNG being good I just raise my eyebrow.

I agree with your rankings, although not the distance between TOS and TNG. DS9 had the best story telling by far, and TNG had a lot of clangers at either end of the show, and a fair few in between. It's highs are exceptionally high though. Stuff like Q Who, Measure of a Man and The Survivors was exceptional television.

DS9 is fantastic because its characters are superb. It has recurring characters like garak, jake and quark who are far superior to 90% of the full time TNG crew. Worf only became a decent character after he joined DS9. It tells long term stories with generally good payoffs. It challenges gene's utopian vision while not sneering at it. It's the best star trek show.

Shoutout to TOS's Kirk-Spock-McCoy character dynamic though. That's never been bettered. I watch Star trek V purely for that first ten minutes which is just them.

When I list TOS I'm also including its movies. TOS TV + TOS movies are a god send and what ultimately bridge the gap.

TNG has great episodes but anything will have great episodes of it lasts seven seasons and for all of TNG's highs, it has incredible lows. I think Star Trek II - VI are some of the best in sci-fi ever so it's really hard for me to remotely place TNG nearly on par with that.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Armageddon Game - fuck yes, I thought Odo was my fave but O'BRIEN.


BASHIR/CHIEF BUDDY ADVENTURE

KEIKO AND CHIEF FOR BEST TREK COUPLE

I don't like everything about this episode but I do like most of it. Stories that center around O'Brien and Bashir rarely miss.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Whispers - this episode is fun as fuck. O'Brien rocks.

 

[jb1234]

Whispers - this episode is fun as fuck. O'Brien rocks.

I love "Whispers." It's a great mystery.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I love "Whispers." It's a great mystery.

It's a total mind fuck

 

[XOMTOR]

I dunno what to tell you Cindi but like many, DS9 just didn't jive with me at the time. I know it has gotten more popular over the years but I just found it unappealing back then. I enjoyed my time with TNG and perhaps I had enough of Trek (and Sci-Fi in general) when the show ended.

These days, I can throw on a episode of TNG in the background and while hokey, I get my nostalgia fix with Picard, Data, Worf, Geordi and crew and be good for a while.

If I'm going to watch a character driven drama in space, I'll re-watch Galactica which I find so far superior to DS9 (or any Trek for that matter) it's not even funny.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I dunno what to tell you Cindi but like many, DS9 just didn't jive with me at the time. I know it has gotten more popular over the years but I just found it unappealing back then. I enjoyed my time with TNG and perhaps I had enough of Trek (and Sci-Fi in general) when the show ended.

These days, I can throw on a episode of TNG in the background and while hokey, I get my nostalgia fix with Picard, Data, Worf, Geordi and crew and be good for a while.

If I'm going to watch a character driven drama in space, I'll re-watch Galactica which I find so far superior to DS9 (or any Trek for that matter) it's not even funny.

I said I thought BSG pooped on TNG in the Star Trek thread and they thought I was crazy. I'm not sure if I'd put it above DS9 yet. BSG is completely serialized so it has a larger character focus. But I like that DS9 is half episodic half serialized, while still never forgetting its subplots.

BSG is my favorite sci fi live action show, though I still think it pales compared to a good Gundam. IMO, DS9's competition right now is BSG, not TNG.

I guess I just don't get the appeal of shows you can just leave on the background. I like to get invested.

 

[XOMTOR]

I said I thought BSG pooped on TNG in the Star Trek thread and they thought I was crazy. I'm not sure if I'd put it above DS9 yet. BSG is completely serialized so it has a larger character focus. But I like that DS9 is half episodic half serialized, while still never forgetting its subplots.

BSG is my favorite sci fi live action show, though I still think it pales compared to a good Gundam. IMO, DS9's competition right now is BSG, not TNG.

I guess I just don't get the appeal of shows you can just leave on the background. I like to get invested.

I enjoyed my time with Star Trek years ago but now that I'm old and crotchety, I have a hard time enjoying any Sci-Fi let alone investing in a show with a bunch of weird looking space aliens. Can't watch superhero movies either for that matter. Just seems so cheesy and ridiculous. Same goes for Star Wars; loved them as a kid and I enjoyed Force Awakens but mostly because of nostalgia.

Galactica was the first Sci-Fi show in many years I could actually watch without rolling my eyes. Very little cheese in that show.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

I enjoyed my time with Star Trek years ago but now that I'm old and crotchety, I have a hard time enjoying any Sci-Fi let alone investing in a show with a bunch of weird looking space aliens. Can't watch superhero movies either for that matter. Just seems so cheesy and ridiculous. Same goes for Star Wars; loved them as a kid and I enjoyed Force Awakens but mostly because of nostalgia.

Galactica was the first Sci-Fi show in many years I could actually watch without rolling my eyes. Very little cheese in that show.

Watch Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Whispers is one of my favorite episodes. Knowing how it's going to turn out doesn't diminish my enjoyment of it one bit.

 

[jb1234]

Whispers is one of my favorite episodes. Knowing how it's going to turn out doesn't diminish my enjoyment of it one bit.

If anything, it's even more fascinating rewatching it knowing the twist.

 

[Union Carbine]

Personally, I'm an OT guy. TNG had too much Q, too much holodeck, too much ferrying people back and forth within the federation and ultimately overexposed the Borg. I could never get into DS( but I'd like to try watching it again. Voyager, I watched off and on but didn't really dig it too much and I turned off Enterprise during the first season.

For me: OT > DS9 > TNG > Voyager > Enterprise

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

too much ferrying people back and forth

How many episodes does TNG spend acting as a transport vessel and not a vessel for exploration?

I thought that was the oddest thing coming off of TOS.