It's not like TNG used her in any great capacity, but she seemed quite capable in the few episodes where she had a chance to shine. Maybe she should have gotten that transfer like Miles O'Brien did. Ferengi psychotherapy would have been hilarious.
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My journey through Star Trek for the first time
- Thread starter Cindi Mayweather
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It's not like TNG used her in any great capacity, but she seemed quite capable in the few episodes where she had a chance to shine. Maybe she should have gotten that transfer like Miles O'Brien did. Ferengi psychotherapy would have been hilarious.
He went through Season 6 so chances are, he saw it.
(Assuming you mean the one I'm thinking of.)
firehawk12
Subete no aware
He went through Season 6 so chances are, he saw it.
(Assuming you mean the one I'm thinking of.)
The one where she bangs Worf?
AzureSkies
Member
Haha! No, that one is terrible!"Face of the Enemy", where she's a Romulan.
Me and my brother were discussing this a few days ago and we both came to the same conclusion as you: that's the only non-cringeworthy Troi centric episode in TNG.
There tends to be a few consistent problems with Troi episodes.
1: Her mom is often involved and Lwaxana is almost always unbearable.
2: They often put Troi in extreme situations and Sirtis isn't very good at conveying strong emotions.
3: When they're not putting her in extreme situations, they're giving her a love interest of the week with zero chemistry (and since he'll be gone in a week, why bother at all?).
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Haha! No, that one is terrible!"Face of the Enemy", where she's a Romulan.
What about the one where she becomes a mom for like a week
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Haha! No, that one is terrible!"Face of the Enemy", where she's a Romulan.
That one owned.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
"Oh, I'm sure all you starfleet explorers find this absolutely fascinating, but I'm a Bajoran Administrator. THIS IS NOT WHAT I SIGNED UP FOR!"
Kira owns.
Kira owns.
Finally got around to finishing my TNG viewing.
I think TNG would be my favorite series if I was maybe just a few years older so I could have enjoyed it when it aired.
I do like how the final season of TNG setup Voyager with the
. Now to watch the TNG movies and decide if I give DS9 a shot or just continue on to watching a condensed "best of" of Voyager...
I think TNG would be my favorite series if I was maybe just a few years older so I could have enjoyed it when it aired.
I do like how the final season of TNG setup Voyager with the
Ro Laren episode in season 7 and the Maquis
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
The Maquis is relevant for all of maybe a half dozen Voyager episodes. The crew is almost instantly integrated and conflict never happens between the mixed crew.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Last month I watched the final episode of TNG.
My review of TNG:
I think that for all of its flaws it's worth watching, but if you're a first time viewer I suggest going into it with the knowledge that it's quite different from today's television of serialized stories and in no way should you go in with that sort of expectation. TNG is a show of its era. From Geordi's high top fade, to Troi in a gymnast outfit the majority of the series. Most episodes in TNG offer very little to building Its universe. There are far too many gimmick episodes: holodeck episodes starring an in character Data running around as Sherlock Holmes, or episodes where the crew is in danger by some unknown thing that comes off as hokey and cheap, with a good measure of alien of the week episodes thrown in with good measure. It's very much of its times, in no way different from Law and Order and or Nightrider; episodic shows that hinge their premise on precedure, except in space.
TNG is a series with very little drama. Whatever drama there is isn't reserved for the main cast. As it is, the show comes off as an utopia where everyone agrees with each other. Interesting to think about, but doesn't make for the most interesting television. What drama there is focused entirely on the superficial - Wesley has to save the ship single handedly, again! - rather than explore the behaviors of its cast and crew.
As it is, TNG is a show of mixed priorities that rarely, if ever takes advantage of its own setting. TNG takes place on a starship that hosts civilians AND the Federation, which is decidedly different than what was presented in TOS. Instead of showing us what Keiko gets on to while Miles is doing his thing, we get crappy episodes where Geordi falls in love with computer AI. Doc Crusher's assistant was there about the entire run of the show and she didn't get a single episode dedicated to her until the end of its run. What do civilians do while living under the roof of a giant starship that's regularly attacked by aliens? We don't know, and through all of the hundreds of episodes, the writers of TNG didn't care to know.
It doesn't help that the main characters aren't terribly interesting either. We've got Geordi, the awkward nerd who's always in the background in the engineering room; Riker, the constant brown noser; Troi, the lady with feelings; Doctor Crusher, whose role is Doctor Crusher and little else; Data, the annoying Pinnochio; Welsey, boy genius. Only Worf and Picard are in any way interesting.
Eventually you like the cast, but not because they're worth liking or that they're even good characters, but because you get used them. You see, TNG's greatest asset is that it's ultimately comfort food television and nothing more. The occasional philosophical episode shows up, but it'll almost always be preceded by an episode where unknown aliens have taken over the ship and the crew have twelve hours to save the day. The result is a disjointed, inconsistent mess. People say TNG gets off its feet after season 2 but the harsh reality is that it never really does. There's always something wrong and it never fully reaches its potential.
In the end, only three seasons are worth watching: 3, 4, and 5. The rest are too flawed, too boring, and too mixed in terms of quality to ever make trudging through seven seasons of inconsistent tedium worth it in today's age of serialized TV where EVERYTHING matters. The final episode was solid, but Lower Decks was what I felt acted as a better final episode.
Despite its name and importance in television history The Next Generation feels more than a little outdated, and this goes further than mere aesthetic but more into its very structure.
TNG is a show of its times, and I honestly can't say it's worth watching more than once beyond a greatest hits boxset. Watching TNG is a great expose' on why Trek eventually started to lack in popularity: the show is fucking BORING and its sequels all cribbed from it, with DS9 establishing its own identity the most. Sometimes TNG is a good boring, but a lot of times it's "cook dinner while passively listening to the episode play without paying too much attention and not exactly missing anything" boring. It's no wonder I didn't like or understand Trek growing up, going by TNG.
Rating: 6/10
Best episode: Darmok
For what it's worth, I'm on episode 5 season 2 of DS9 and I think it's better than TNG's entire run already. The final episode of season 1 and the first three episodes of season 2 all connect. DS9 is the anti-TNG: here, everything matters, especially characters. Despite the Internet telling me DS9 takes ages to get good, I've liked every episode and enjoy every character.
My review of TNG:
I think that for all of its flaws it's worth watching, but if you're a first time viewer I suggest going into it with the knowledge that it's quite different from today's television of serialized stories and in no way should you go in with that sort of expectation. TNG is a show of its era. From Geordi's high top fade, to Troi in a gymnast outfit the majority of the series. Most episodes in TNG offer very little to building Its universe. There are far too many gimmick episodes: holodeck episodes starring an in character Data running around as Sherlock Holmes, or episodes where the crew is in danger by some unknown thing that comes off as hokey and cheap, with a good measure of alien of the week episodes thrown in with good measure. It's very much of its times, in no way different from Law and Order and or Nightrider; episodic shows that hinge their premise on precedure, except in space.
TNG is a series with very little drama. Whatever drama there is isn't reserved for the main cast. As it is, the show comes off as an utopia where everyone agrees with each other. Interesting to think about, but doesn't make for the most interesting television. What drama there is focused entirely on the superficial - Wesley has to save the ship single handedly, again! - rather than explore the behaviors of its cast and crew.
As it is, TNG is a show of mixed priorities that rarely, if ever takes advantage of its own setting. TNG takes place on a starship that hosts civilians AND the Federation, which is decidedly different than what was presented in TOS. Instead of showing us what Keiko gets on to while Miles is doing his thing, we get crappy episodes where Geordi falls in love with computer AI. Doc Crusher's assistant was there about the entire run of the show and she didn't get a single episode dedicated to her until the end of its run. What do civilians do while living under the roof of a giant starship that's regularly attacked by aliens? We don't know, and through all of the hundreds of episodes, the writers of TNG didn't care to know.
It doesn't help that the main characters aren't terribly interesting either. We've got Geordi, the awkward nerd who's always in the background in the engineering room; Riker, the constant brown noser; Troi, the lady with feelings; Doctor Crusher, whose role is Doctor Crusher and little else; Data, the annoying Pinnochio; Welsey, boy genius. Only Worf and Picard are in any way interesting.
Eventually you like the cast, but not because they're worth liking or that they're even good characters, but because you get used them. You see, TNG's greatest asset is that it's ultimately comfort food television and nothing more. The occasional philosophical episode shows up, but it'll almost always be preceded by an episode where unknown aliens have taken over the ship and the crew have twelve hours to save the day. The result is a disjointed, inconsistent mess. People say TNG gets off its feet after season 2 but the harsh reality is that it never really does. There's always something wrong and it never fully reaches its potential.
In the end, only three seasons are worth watching: 3, 4, and 5. The rest are too flawed, too boring, and too mixed in terms of quality to ever make trudging through seven seasons of inconsistent tedium worth it in today's age of serialized TV where EVERYTHING matters. The final episode was solid, but Lower Decks was what I felt acted as a better final episode.
Despite its name and importance in television history The Next Generation feels more than a little outdated, and this goes further than mere aesthetic but more into its very structure.
TNG is a show of its times, and I honestly can't say it's worth watching more than once beyond a greatest hits boxset. Watching TNG is a great expose' on why Trek eventually started to lack in popularity: the show is fucking BORING and its sequels all cribbed from it, with DS9 establishing its own identity the most. Sometimes TNG is a good boring, but a lot of times it's "cook dinner while passively listening to the episode play without paying too much attention and not exactly missing anything" boring. It's no wonder I didn't like or understand Trek growing up, going by TNG.
Rating: 6/10
Best episode: Darmok
For what it's worth, I'm on episode 5 season 2 of DS9 and I think it's better than TNG's entire run already. The final episode of season 1 and the first three episodes of season 2 all connect. DS9 is the anti-TNG: here, everything matters, especially characters. Despite the Internet telling me DS9 takes ages to get good, I've liked every episode and enjoy every character.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I still love TNG, but I love DS9 more. DS9 does just about everything TNG did, but better. By the end of the series, the amount of character development they've done with such a large cast really is incredible, and is absolutely alone among Trek series in doing so.
BuggyDClown
Member
Woah.
Im on Season 7 episode 11 right now. Never watched Star Trek before expect the new movies and Trek 2.
I started this series 160 episodes ago on or 28 days ago. I've been month long binge watching. I plan on finishing the show friday and it's now become one of my favorite series of all time.
One of the most interesting things is seeing how the writers focus each character.
Riker started out by far the best of the bunch even though wesley would also save the day as often as he did. Picard didn't really come into his awesomeness until season 2 but he only got much better from there on out, as Riker started to wane.
Then of course the two true best people in the series starting in Season 3 and on really came into light.
Worf and Data. My goodness, both of these characters are so interesting, and have some of the best stories and episodes in the series.
TNG is amazing, and is easily one of my all-time favorite shows now.
Im on Season 7 episode 11 right now. Never watched Star Trek before expect the new movies and Trek 2.
I started this series 160 episodes ago on or 28 days ago. I've been month long binge watching. I plan on finishing the show friday and it's now become one of my favorite series of all time.
One of the most interesting things is seeing how the writers focus each character.
Riker started out by far the best of the bunch even though wesley would also save the day as often as he did. Picard didn't really come into his awesomeness until season 2 but he only got much better from there on out, as Riker started to wane.
Then of course the two true best people in the series starting in Season 3 and on really came into light.
Worf and Data. My goodness, both of these characters are so interesting, and have some of the best stories and episodes in the series.
TNG is amazing, and is easily one of my all-time favorite shows now.
Pretty awesome that you love DS9 that much, Cindi. As a lifelong Niner, it warms my heart to see it. <3
I'd give TNG a 7. DS9's my favorite TV show, but objectively I'd probably still have to give it a 9. It really is quite weak in many ways early on. But you love every episode -- that rocks. I've never seen anyone say that.
The best is yet to come. Season 5-7 is so good.
I'd give TNG a 7. DS9's my favorite TV show, but objectively I'd probably still have to give it a 9. It really is quite weak in many ways early on. But you love every episode -- that rocks. I've never seen anyone say that.
The best is yet to come. Season 5-7 is so good.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
So far I am:
DS9 > TOS >>> TNG
DS9 > TOS >>> TNG
Bless you, child. Welcome to the glory that is Deep Space Nine. Your Pah is strong indeed.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
This show is so ahead of its time.
Like WOW.
Season finale of 1, and episodes 1-3 of S2 wouldn't feel out of place on today's tv. And the way the character writing has evolved ALREADY. Quark's character development and increased screen time is great and Armin Shimerman's performance as a charismatic fucker is just TOO GOOD.
Also, I'm having huge flashbacks with this show. The episode where Jake teaches Nog to read? I WATCHED THIS EPISODE WHEN IT AIRED and it's all coming back!
<3
another funny thing about star trek that is different from star wars was how Trek was largely influenced by the increasing consciousness around space and the idea of alien life. The Space Brothers movement was in full swing in this era, and the idea of the Prime Directive would have been a theme easily inspired by those space age dreams of wise alien species looking on another from a distance.
star wars is all old school myth and legend and is as human as anything else. slavery, magic, direct interventions, no fucks given. Trek was always different and special because of where it came from.
star wars is all old school myth and legend and is as human as anything else. slavery, magic, direct interventions, no fucks given. Trek was always different and special because of where it came from.
BuggyDClown
Member
Thats because one is fantasy and the other is scifi. Star wars is a fantasy story it has more in common with LoTR and GoT than Trek. It's just set in space.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
This CBR article summarizes my thoughts on TNG perfectly.
http://spinoff.comicbookresources.c...-to-hate-about-star-trek-the-next-generation/
http://spinoff.comicbookresources.c...-to-hate-about-star-trek-the-next-generation/
One of these days I should try to go back and rewatch TNG and DS9, and see what you guys all are talking about. I was in college when DS9 aired, and maybe it never really clicked with me because of that. The space station setting wasn't as interesting to me as the constant space travel of TNG and TOS, and I liked the Cardassians being glorious bastards instead of stories featuring Bajorans and Ferengi.
I remember that the only character on DS9 that didn't vaguely annoy me back then was Odo. I'm probably biased because I loved watching Benson as a kid.
I'd probably enjoy it more watching it as a whole season today.
I remember that the only character on DS9 that didn't vaguely annoy me back then was Odo. I'm probably biased because I loved watching Benson as a kid.
I'd probably enjoy it more watching it as a whole season today.
Meh, I think DS9 is superior but I disagree with a lot of that stuff especially JJ Abrams, lack of diversity, and Data bits.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
So far all cardassian episodes ARE bajoran episodes. Cardassian have gotten a lot of emphasis and I'm only 5 episodes into season. 2
TNG does lack diversity though.
Eh, I'd argue that it could use more diversity but we still had two black dudes and two females as part of the bridge crew.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Why do you like the series so much?
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Michael Dorn played a Klingon. Worf doesn't count as a Black character. When he says TNG lacked diversity, he really means within the show, not the cast. TNG felt like Federation was for humans only despite the long gap between TNG and TOS. Even Troi is half human. I like how in DS9 you get to see interaction with aliens and their beliefs on a regular basis. DS9 has far more diversity. TNG feels pretty safe in that area.
I dunno he seemed to be pointing to the cast by saying that Michael Dorn was a Klingon and Geordi the only true back member just "kept the ship running." I'd say that all of ST is very human biased though DS9 did at least try to have more aliens involved in affairs but that was because DS9 was a space station and not a Federation vessel.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
His point is that Goerdi isn't on the bridge to begin with. So much shots you only ever see Picard, Riker, Troi, Data, and Worf. It would have helped if Roh became a regular Ensign every episode but they didn't do that.
Box of Kittens
Banned
I loved the opening three-parter to Season 2. If I recall correctly, audience reaction to Bajor-centric stories was largely negative at the time, but I tend to like them.
I've said this before, but I really think Season 2 is terribly underrated. There's some doldrums when you hit the middle third of the season (but even then there's several good episodes in that stretch) but the first third and especially the last third of the season are very strong. Aside from the quality of the individual episodes this season, there's a lot of good character development going on and also building of plot lines throughout the season, several of which continue on into later seasons as well. I can think of one episode in particular (
Rules of Acquisition
To make a long story short, I agree with your assessment that early DS9 is too readily dismissed by much of the fan base. It's probably the only Trek show that I would say never had a bad season.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Funnily the weakest DS9 episodes so far are TNG esque "alien comes to play with people" stuff in the Q episode and also the stupid one where that alien race is gambling with the crew inside a dumb game.
I'm not sure how the early episodes of s2 were dismissed because they're pretty quality.
I'm not sure how the early episodes of s2 were dismissed because they're pretty quality.
FeenixRising
Banned
I wonder if Sisko ever told Dax
That's one of life's greatest mysteries.
that they banged in the mirror verse.
That's one of life's greatest mysteries.
Box of Kittens
Banned
I'm in the minority in that I don't absolutely hate Move Along Home (the one with the aliens using the crew as pieces in a game). Don't get me wrong, it's by no means a good episode, but it wouldn't make my "worst of DS9" list.
In general though, early DS9 (and especially Season 1) was at its worst when it did stories that would make just as much sense on TNG. A big warning sign is when Dax says something like "something's coming out of the wormhole" in the teaser. Not all episodes that begin this way are bad, but a lot of them are forgettable alien-of-the-week stories.
In general though, early DS9 (and especially Season 1) was at its worst when it did stories that would make just as much sense on TNG. A big warning sign is when Dax says something like "something's coming out of the wormhole" in the teaser. Not all episodes that begin this way are bad, but a lot of them are forgettable alien-of-the-week stories.
I link these analyses in pretty much every Star Trek revisit thread, but I think they are well worth reading:
Let's See What's Out There
Back Through the Wormhole
Obviously each set of analysis pertains to their respective series.
Also, always good to see love for early DS9.
Let's See What's Out There
Back Through the Wormhole
Obviously each set of analysis pertains to their respective series.
Also, always good to see love for early DS9.
I guess our main difference in opinion is that I like sooooo many episodes on an individual basis rather than looking at things as a whole. Like I think season 3 on is made up of classic after classic. I definitely makes sense that someone who would look at it that way would like stuff like DS9 more.
DS9 Worf is way better though.
Season 2 is great. In a lot of ways, I enjoyed the Bajoran-centric DS9 more than the Dominion-centric DS9. It felt like there was more meat there, especially in the characterizations.
(That said, seasons 4-6 are remarkably consistent television. I leave out the final season because there's too much Ezri, a somewhat disappointing finale and too many fluff episodes. Seriously, does anyone give a fuck about Vic and his stupid lounge?)
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Re: Move Along Home. I don't hate it, but it fits in TNG and not DS9. I'm generally not a fan of alien of the week episodes unless they explain some thing important about the characters.
I think season 5 of TNG is great. My problem is that it doesn't maintain that level of quality and it's inconsistent.
I think season 5 of TNG is great. My problem is that it doesn't maintain that level of quality and it's inconsistent.
DS9 is my favorite TV show of all time. You are indeed in for a ride. Every character has such a great arc from beginning to end. Even Nog has an incredible journey. This was a show that cared about its characters before all.
I can't respect an opinion on Sci Fi TV by someone that thinks Babylon 5 isn't good anymore.
DS9 is the best Trek series. Also Season 4 of Enterprise is one of the best seasons of Trek period besides the finale. Season 3 of Enterprise is pretty great too.
All right then.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
This is really written.
Bashir was not only intended to be annoying, but the character got amazing stories that brought him down a few pegs (Hippocratic Oath, The Quickening) and rebuilt him into a strong character (...Nor the Battle to the Strong) and then laid him completely bare (Doctor Bashir, I Presume?) -- by which point his behavior in the shows beginning makes total sense with an awesome character growth arc.
He ended up one of my favorite characters. Then again the show does have a LOT of favorite characters for me.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Bashir is supposed to be annoying? I like him!
I love his relationship with O'Brien. Wish I'd see more of that friendship soon!
I love his relationship with O'Brien. Wish I'd see more of that friendship soon!
Box of Kittens
Banned
I agree, at least to an extent. I honestly really like what both of those types of stories bring to the table. An advantage of DS9's setting was that the writers could really explore an Bajoran society in greater detail than the alien societies on other Trek series. On the other hand, the series' handling of interstellar politics was also one of its big strengths. I will say I find it a bit disappointing that in later seasons Bajor-centered stories seem to become fewer and farther between
and increasingly focused on the conflict between the Prophets and the Pah-Wraiths, which ignored all the most interesting aspects of the Bajoran religion in favor of a simplistic good vs. evil story.
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