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[GymWolf]

Another topic where those who have no short coming of representation will be saying "why does representation matter..." Yippie.

Right on que...

I'm white and sicilian (not italo-american, 100% sicilian), so i'm pretty sure that i have way less representation than a lot of races, unless you think that all white men share the same lifestyle, traditions etc and i'm perfectly represented by american brodudes or italo-american mobsters , because that would be REAL racism...

Take a guess on how much fucks i give that there is not at least a couple of sicilian dudes in every game i play.


Like i always say, If you need representation in a fucking videogame to feel in peace with yourself (not specifically you) then you have way more urgent problems than lack of representation.

 

[[Sigma]]

As a African American, this annoys me. I hate that he even addressed this.

 

[Elder Legend]

If I was the one being interviewed I'd happily tell the journalist to fuck off and double clarify his media outlet affiliation and then blacklist them from ever recieving any of our products.

And then if they asked me why? I'd tell him it's because they are racists themselves and that we have zero tolerance for racism and the fact that they have no respect for others peoples storytelling and art.

But if I wanted to be an extra dick, the smart thing would be to turn it around on them and then gaslight the fuck out of them and troll them

It would go like this -

Idiot: What do you have to say in regards to the lack of diversity in your game?
Game Dev: By lack of diversity you mean why we are not racists and why we are not letting the skin color of a character define their identity? Actually, don't even bother answering that. You wanna be a professional? Be a professional and not some fucking racist such as yourself. This interview is over, get the fuck out"

Then they would give me the pikachu face, and if they proceeded with wanting to ask more questions and kept bothering about it after I told them to leave. I would call security and told tell them I am being verbarlly harrased and escort the fucking racist and his crew out the building.

 

[nkarafo]

Simple question.

Why it is wrong to have a game/movie/show with only white characters?

Is it also wrong to have a game/movie/show with only black characters? If so, why?

I'm trying to understand why does diversity need to be mandatory. Like, if i create a story, isn't my right to create the characters i want? It's not like it's mandatory for anyone to play my game or watch my movie/show or something.

 

[Rat Rage]

He should also address Final Fantasy 16's lack of "Final Fantasy".

 

[DeepEnigma]

If this game was set in a fantasy version of Japan and only had ethnic Japanese characters, would IGN still question the lack of diversity?

It's only an issue if western devs are making it (Ghost of Tsushima) in which Japan itself kindly told those empty vessels to fuck right off as they erected a statue in their homeland in honor of Sucker Punch and the game.

 

[Fuz]

I'm white and sicilian (not italo-american, 100% sicilian), so i'm pretty sure that i have way less representation than a lot of races, unless you think that all white men share the same lifestyle, traditions etc and i'm perfectly represented by american brodudes or italo-american mobsters , because that would be REAL racism...

Take a guess on how much fucks i give that there is not at least a couple of sicilian dudes in every game i play.


Like i always say, If you need representation in a fucking videogame to feel in peace with yourself (not specifically you) then you have way more urgent problems than lack of representation.

I'm still waiting for my sardinian main protagonist.

 

[GymWolf]

I'm still waiting for my sardinian main protagonist.

You can catch sardines in almost any game with fishing mechanic, pretty sure that pure sicilians are more rare.

 

[GametimeUK]

The game is not set on Earth, hence, it’s not an “European setting”.

It's not literally Europe in game form, but it's inspired by Europe. I think it's fine for them to draw inspiration from there for their fictional land. They can transition whatever parallels they desire from our world to create their fictional world including race.

If I was inspired by Medieval Europe to include a Castle in my game is it a lame excuse for not including Skyscrapers?

 

[Swift_Star]

It's only an issue if western devs are making it (Ghost of Tsushima) in which Japan itself kindly told those empty vessels to fuck right off as they erected a statue in their homeland in honor of Sucker Punch and the game.

The "controversy" over Tsushima was really lame tbh.

 

[Swift_Star]

It's not literally Europe in game form, but it's inspired by Europe. I think it's fine for them to draw inspiration from there for their fictional land. They can transition whatever parallels they desire from our world to create their fictional world including race.

If I was inspired by Medieval Europe to include a Castle in my game is it a lame excuse for not including Skyscrapers?

So is Bridgerton and that has diversity.
Like I said: it's a lame excuse and they can run with it.
It's still lame but who cares?
Why are people expecting diversity from japanese games anyway? They shouldn't. I don't.

 

[anthony2690]

I find it strange they are going after SE.

I mean they are literally making forspoken what has a black female lead character, who genuinely has a great character design imo.

Does any other triple a title have that?

I think people just like trying to find something to be angry or upset over for no reason.

 

[Swift_Star]

I find it strange they are going after SE.

I mean they are literally making forspoken what has a black female lead character, who genuinely has a great character design imo.

Does any other triple a title have that?

I think people just like trying to find something to be angry or upset over for no reason.

You have a good point. There was no reason for this kind of question for this game. I agree with you. They clearly are looking for controversy.

 

[Danjin44]

No one forced Yoko Taro put gay and intersex characters in his game, he put them because WANTS to for his story, same with George with 13 Sentinels, let devs naturally put "diverse" characters instead forcing them for sake of representation.

Try to force anything, never brings good result.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I think people just like trying to find something to be angry or upset over for no reason.

 

[SmokedMeat]

The woke crowd isn’t happy unless all their required boxes are ticked.

I’m surprised this was brought up to Square Enix though. For the longest time this only applied to western developers.

 

[Rendered Tangent]

It seems like there's no such thing as historical accuracy or respect for a source these days anyway.

Developers, film makers, producers and directors on TV, in advertising, often have to decide between adhering to the historical record or appealing to the widest demographic possible - and as a business they invariably choose the latter.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The woke crowd isn’t happy unless all their required boxes are ticked.

fixed

 

[Fatbody]

By trying to avoid white supremacy, we have fallen into the very ideology behind it, that race matters above all else. Fucking idiots, anyone who thinks this is progressive.

And as far as video games go, where exactly is this “white supremacy” we’re trying to avoid? I must of missed the offically licensed Klan and Neo-Nazi games from back in the day. You’d be hard-pressed to find a game, from any era, with even subtle right wing themes. And when it comes to representation, I can’t find any solid evidence or study showing any significant disproportion of white characters relative to the demographics of the population. The only “evidence” they ever point to is a small handful of B-tier games staring military haircut white bros from the Gen 6-Early Gen 7 era. Then they memed that into being something way bigger than it actually was, and used that as the basis for a crusade to fix a problem that doesn’t exist.

 

[Saber]

Was that ever a problem to begin with?

Your mistake is giving answer to them. Now they got the wood to feed the fire.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Wait, is this thread a repost or did I jump backwards through time?

Yeah i though we had this thread already.

Anyway there were Blacks in Medieval Europe but historical distortion over the many decades, especially for a guy of his age and country, is understandable. He had an idea of a historical subject in his head as did other staff most likely and they made a game with what they believed would be in it focusing less on the made up terms surrounding the characters, but the characters themselves, which will be written as badly as any other Final Fantasy characters so it's par for the course.

Really, the outrage on this is unnecessary. How many checkmarks does FF need to have to pass the test? In FFXIII they had one blank man and all the rest the cast was (anime) white. No one complained about a lack of diversity. FFVIII and the remake had one Black guy, a bunch of (anime) whites, and some red dog thing and no one said anything.

But now the people pressing these questions are acting like Square should suddenly have 40 groups in their games, along with people in wheel chairs, people sacred of heights, people with sunbrun, and potheads in order to pass the test. I don't see what's so different between FF16 and FFXV in representation degree, all the characters will be poorly written regardless.

 

[GametimeUK]

So is Bridgerton and that has diversity.
Like I said: it's a lame excuse and they can run with it.
It's still lame but who cares?
Why are people expecting diversity from japanese games anyway? They shouldn't. I don't.

Which is cool for Bridgerton, but this isn't Bridgerton is it? Does one piece of media drawing inspiration from a source mean that everyone else has to do it in the same way if they draw from the same source?

I'm creating a serious movie about a Chef set in France. I choose not to have a Rat hidden in my Chefs hat controlling his every move helping him to prepare the food. Is that a lame excuse for not including the Rat? Ratatouille did it.

 

[Swift_Star]

Which is cool for Bridgerton, but this isn't Bridgerton is it? Does one piece of media drawing inspiration from a source mean that everyone else has to do it in the same way if they draw from the same source?

I'm creating a serious movie about a Chef set in France. I choose not to have a Rat hidden in my Chefs hat controlling his every move helping him to prepare the food. Is that a lame excuse for not including the Rat? Ratatouille did it.

Again:

So is Bridgerton and that has diversity.
Like I said: it's a lame excuse and they can run with it.
It's still lame but who cares?
Why are people expecting diversity from japanese games anyway? They shouldn't. I don't.

And:

You have a good point. There was no reason for this kind of question for this game. I agree with you. They clearly are looking for controversy.

There's nothing else to discuss.

 

[GametimeUK]

Again:

And:

There's nothing else to discuss.

Forespoken could have had a black male lead. Deathloop did it.

 

[Swift_Star]

Forespoken could have had a black male lead. Deathloop did it.

So?

 

[brian0057]

"Why does it matter? It's fantasy!" is the mantra of hacks that have never written anything worthwhile in their lives.
Being internally consistent (be it real or imaginary) is more important than whatever square peg you're trying to cram down the round hole of everyone's throat.

 

[cireza]

The game's design has heavily featured medieval Europe

You don't say.

 

[Kamina]

Woke culture is so shallow

 

[OCASM]

Only racists and narcissists care about the skin color of game characters.

 

[GametimeUK]

So?

Exactly. Just because Bridgerton did something one way it doesn't mean Final Fantasy is lame for doing things another way.

You're right there is nothing to discuss. People can draw inspiration and include it into their game however they like even if others lack the mental capacity to see what they're doing.

 

[Swift_Star]

Exactly. Just because Bridgerton did something one way it doesn't mean Final Fantasy is lame for doing things another way.

You're right there is nothing to discuss. People can draw inspiration and include it into their game however they like even if others lack the mental capacity to see what they're doing.

The excuse is lame. But they're free to do whatever they want to. I said I think the question was unecessary and that IGN is fishing for controversy. You're missing the point lol

 

[hyperbertha]

Not on earth, so it doesn’t matter.
It’s not jarring and unrealistic to have people that turn into giant powerful monsters and use magic, but it’s jarring and unrealistic to have people with different skin colors and tones? Are you reading what you’re writing?
Like I said: lame excuse. They can do whatever they want and I’m buying the game, since I don’t expect this from them anyway and the lack of diversity is not a thing that will make me not play a game. There’s nothing else to discuss.

Yours is the lame excuse. Harry potter has magic, but that doesn't stop it from following logical rules in its stellar worldbuilding that adhere to real world constraints and human nature. Newsflash, just because something has magic, doesn't mean its excused from following basic human logic. If FF devs include other races, they also have to include a globalized world in their setting. Because that is the logical explanation for how a medieval human culture can have multiple races (unless you want imported slaves).

 

[cash_longfellow]

What his response should have been…

 

[Haint]

Isn't this 1:1 verbatim what Kingdom Come Deliverance was "canceled" and blacklisted by all the media outlets for? Are they going to do the same to Square and Sony? Will Black At Bungie release a statement?

 

[Swift_Star]

If FF devs include other races, they also have to include a globalized world in their setting.

Bridgerton didn't need to do this lol, that makes no sense.
It's a fantasy setting that doesn't need to abide to real world rules. If they say it's a place that has race diversity, then it is, nothing else matters.
If you can handle magic and monsters, you can handle a fantastic place with multiple races.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You should see how them Gma's get heated on knitting and quilt making forums.

 

[FearlessBelgian]

Teh anti-white RACISTS fire back!

Yoshida's response to Final Fantasy 16's lack of diversity is "souring", say Black players

Ahead of its release next summer, Final Fantasy 16 has received plenty of praise for its colossal Eikon battles between…

www.eurogamer.net

The truth is nobody care. Even black players don't care what these dumb say...

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's a fantasy setting that doesn't need to abide to real world rules.

Exactly.

 

[hyperbertha]

It's a fantasy setting that doesn't need to abide to real world rules. If they say it's a place that has race diversity, then it is, nothing else matters.
If you can handle magic and monsters, you can handle a fantastic place with multiple races.

Its a human world, which means if its to be believable, it has to follow certain real world logics. This is what world building is ALL about. It seems you don't understand how it works. Good thing that you are not the one working on this game eh??

 

[Swift_Star]

Its a human world, which means if its to be believable, it has to follow certain real world logics. This is what world building is ALL about. It seems you don't understand how it works. Good thing that you are not the one working on this game eh??

So tell me why is Bridgerton extremely sucessful if it's set on England before globalization and it has a black queen character?

 

[Oberstein]

Big mistake. Never apologize or explain yourself to the woke crowd.

This.

 

[brian0057]

You don’t consider Japanese people to be POC?

Japanese people (and East Asians in general) are Schrödinger's POC.

 

[GametimeUK]

The excuse is lame. But they're free to do whatever they want to. I said I think the question was unecessary and that IGN is fishing for controversy. You're missing the point lol

No I get your point. I'm saying the "excuse" isn't lame because I don't think it's an excuse at all. You're entitled to think what you wish and that's fine, but I don't think your logic is very consistent.

(Edit)
Like just imagine the reason for Drake and Josh being white in their show was "lame" and they should be blacm because Keenan and Kell did it. Wtf? It's how you sound.

 

[Swift_Star]

No I get your point. I'm saying the "excuse" isn't lame because I don't think it's an excuse at all. You're entitled to think what you wish and that's fine, but I don't think your logic is very consistent.

The excuse is 100% lame.
If Bridgerton can be extremely sucessful and make people don't care about "real world consistency" while not even having fantasy elements on it and being a romance story, then anything can. Unless it's specifically a historical fiction like Cleopatra or Gladiator, "real world consistency" doesn't matter. Facts.

 

[hyperbertha]

So tell me why is Bridgerton extremely sucessful if it's set on England before globalization and it has a black queen character?

Bridgerton was criticized for its historical inaccuracies that were largely immersion breaking and looked forced. Why should any other developer take that risk when they can just circumnavigate the issue and deliver a better product?

 

[Swift_Star]

Bridgerton was criticized for its historical inaccuracies that were largely immersion breaking and looked forced.

So? It's massively successful.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-hit-highest-ratings-female-audiences-romance
I'm sorry to break it down to you, but nobody cares about real world consistency.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Woke or simple minded?

Why isn’t Square bigger than it actually is? They used to be a powerhouse and they are slowing becoming a afterthought. There isn’t a reason why these Japanese gaming companies can’t be bigger than the American ones. They still act like local gaming companies instead of a global one.

 

[hyperbertha]

So? It's massively successful.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...-hit-highest-ratings-female-audiences-romance
I'm sorry to break it down to you, but nobody cares about real world consistency.

But i do and those who criticized bridgerton do? So FF is automatically a superior product compared to bridgerton atleast in the world building department. Just because the audience was willing to forgive contrarian world building in this case (most likely because the writing compensated for it) doesn't mean its not an inferior product.

 

[Swift_Star]

But i do and those who criticized bridgerton do? So FF is automatically a superior product compared to bridgerton atleast in the world building department. Just because the audience was willing to forgive contrarian world building in this case (most likely because the writing compensated for it) doesn't mean its not an inferior product.

You're in the minority, but you do you.

 

[Larxia]

No one forced Yoko Taro put gay and intersex characters in his game, he put them because WANTS to for his story, same with George with 13 Sentinels, let devs naturally put "diverse" characters instead forcing them for sake of representation.

Try to force anything, never brings good result.

It's really a problem to force things in everything, because it leads to people being bothered by something they just didn't care about before.

I can see this effect on myself, I didn't mind things like gay characters or whatever else in medias before, I wasn't for or against it, I just didn't care, it's something that exists and that's it. But now that it's done for different purposes, that there's this whole woke culture, everytime I see such things in medias, I start being annoyed / questionning it, wondering if it was put there naturally, which is rarely these days, or if it's just the usual pandering.

And I know this isn't a particularly great way of thinking either, because it's being biased in a different way, but you can't help it when it's done all the time in everything constantly. They simply ruined the image / messages they were trying to defend.