hyperbertha
Member
Well if this thread's responses are to be considered I'm very much in the majority don't you think?
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Naoki Yoshida addresses Final Fantasy 16's lack of diversity
- Thread starter Heimdall_Xtreme
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Swift_Star
Banned
Nope.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
And GoT has a rather European setting and people are colored according to the landmass / climate they live in. Even if it’s a fictional setting. And was somehow super successful doing so.
Dr. Wilkinson
Gold Member
IMHO, it's just a really silly question to begin with, and not even a very interesting one. "Where's the diversity measured against modern 2022 culture in this medieval fantasy RPG?"
Doesn't seem like an interesting question, and seems like a waste of time to answer it or spend time dissecting it.
Where's the diversity? I don't know, Japan's not a very diverse country, ethnically. It's 99% Japanese. What are they supposed to base the ethnic diversity of their games on? United States-specific norms for what is considered culturally acceptable by current 2022 standards? That seems like a lot of unnecessary work, and honestly, a huge waste of time.
I think it's a boring question that nobody is asking except someone at IGN who wanted the headline for clicks.
Are they going to ask this Q in every game interview now?
"Where's the diversity in the Toads for this Super Mario game?"
"Why does Link have to be white?"
Like, at what point does this just become completely ridiculous?
Doesn't seem like an interesting question, and seems like a waste of time to answer it or spend time dissecting it.
Where's the diversity? I don't know, Japan's not a very diverse country, ethnically. It's 99% Japanese. What are they supposed to base the ethnic diversity of their games on? United States-specific norms for what is considered culturally acceptable by current 2022 standards? That seems like a lot of unnecessary work, and honestly, a huge waste of time.
I think it's a boring question that nobody is asking except someone at IGN who wanted the headline for clicks.
Are they going to ask this Q in every game interview now?
"Where's the diversity in the Toads for this Super Mario game?"
"Why does Link have to be white?"
Like, at what point does this just become completely ridiculous?
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Griffon
Member
Not every setting (fictional or not) has to look like America.
Most countries in the world are very much made of a majority of people with the same skin color.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I have zero problem if there is gay or any race in games if thats their creative choice and I welcome that with open arms, but I get pissed when western media shit on devs when they dont put them in as they are some kind of racists or sexiest. I mean people on social media legitimately got pissed off about Bayonetta not being gay like their head canon.
Trying to force representation just goes against the cause and more importantly the game will suffer as a result.
lyan
Member
You assume it is an excuse, but when it comes to Japan (or anywhere East Asia) there's a good chance they really mean it.
GametimeUK
Member
The excuse is 100% lame.
If Bridgerton can be extremely sucessful and make people don't care about "real world consistency" while not even having fantasy elements on it and being a romance story, then anything can. Unless it's specifically a historical fiction like Cleopatra or Gladiator, "real world consistency" doesn't matter. Facts.
But what I'm saying is your line of thinking boils down to "if it's a fictional world the excuse for not being inclusive is lame... its a fictional land you can include anything you're not bound by reality"...
BUT if we apply this logic consistently and if excluding things from a fictional game world is "lame" because people have the power to include it if they wish... then OBJECTIVELY by your standard EVERYTHING imaginable should be included in the game. If a Swashbluckling Pirate with a giraffe neck isn't in FF16 then the "excuse" for not including it would be lame. By your logic they could have included it so they should... otherwise its lame.
WHAT?!?!?!
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touchfuzzy
Member
If there was a bunch of black characters then people would be mad that there weren't any black writers / developers on their Japanese dev team. It's always something.
Dr. Wilkinson
Gold Member
It's such a woke American question to ask. It's just straight cringe.
Ghost of Caelid
Banned
A movie, TV show or game with exclusively minority characters is seen as the second coming of Christ, but something with too many white people is automatically evil, racist and wrong. It makes no sense to me. Apparently even Snow White is latina now...Tell me you didn't read what I said, without telling me you didn't read what I said...
I read it and wish I didn't. Latina Snow white, black Ariel, indian velma, etc. Always gets people who going who never planned on seeing these films anyway. Discussion on diversity doesn't mean we are in a worse place. Its always been bad but if you arent affected by it you just had a better ability to ignore it.
Swift_Star
Banned
It's lame, dude, no matter how much mental gymnastics you're trying to make lol.
And the fact that you're trying to exaggerate just proves this further.
gaming_again
Member
Brb, gonna put on a play about Okun Archibon and cast him as white. See how that goes down with people it doesn’t affect.
Dr. Wilkinson
Gold Member
If it was a live interview and not a "email us back your answers" interview, the reply was mighty impressive. But yeah, the Q is just super cringey. Kind of hurts to read it.
Little Chicken
Member
Every Final Fantasy should just have Turkish people from now on.
Ghost of Caelid
Banned
Who? But don't be obtuse. If the characters race is a pivotal part of who they are then thats one thing. All the examples people tend to get upset about happen to be white...their whiteness rarely plays a role in their character.
gaming_again
Member
I would say that race doesn’t form a pivotal part of any folk story - but it does place them within a specific culture and time. That is why changing the race of characters rubs people up the wrong way.
My personal view - I don’t care. As somebody who thinks the charge of cultural appropriation is bollocks, I believe all stories belong to all peoples and cultures and I welcome adaptations of all kinds. But the modern trend of changing the races is so clearly a provocation that it really annoys me when people act offended at offence taken.
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kurisu_1974
is on perm warning for being a low level troll
I had to look up wtf Bridgerton was after this poster brought it up 2 million times. Some shit on Netflix it turns out.
Ghost of Caelid
Banned
I would disagree and even on a minuscule level it does create a sense of pride for under represented groups to see themselves portrayed in a positive manner. That alone is enough reason for me to be pro representation. It hurts no one and benefits those who receive the positive aspects of it...especially when we have had historical negative representation for some groups.
kurisu_1974
is on perm warning for being a low level troll
I think you guys are taking the race thing too far tbh. I've never seen Spaniards or Italians as different races, that's insane to me. How would we know Snow White is now Hispanic btw, haven't been following that? I'm sure there's Hispanic people that are whiter than me (and I'm very fucking white... almost transluscent on a bad day).
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
It's a world based on a fantasy version of medieval Europe.
I don't understand the argument that it's "fantasy". As if that means it should reflect what the western real world looks like in 2022.
City of Brass and Black Leopard Red Wolf (fantasy books) are two examples off the top of my head where both are set in fantasy versions of the Middle East and Western Africa, although both are not set on Earth.
Both are not diverse or have a cast of characters made up of multiple races. That's completely understandable based on the world they're set in. It would be really jarring if both of those worlds had a ton of white characters.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
It's successful because it's Jane Austen X Fifty Shades.
What's even the argument here?
SSfox
Member
This.
Should take notes from this guy
Fuck those retards. Outside of nonensical propaganda they aren't capable to do anyhting good.
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Radical Dreamer
Member
Dude fuck woke americans and their cultural colonialism. It even got to a point where plenty of teens in Poland (!) were laying on floor in public in protest of George Floyd xD
cinnamonandgravy
Member
telling others they need to change their creations so group X is included/represented is not a long term solution.
such an odd mix of arrogance and insecurity.
Kikorin
Member
Dumb question, this obsession with diversification is making everything looks the same.
I enjoyed GTA: SA and most of the characters were black, I enjoyed Alan Wake and most of the characters were white, I enjoyed Life is Strange and most of the characters were LGBTQ+, I enjoyed Star Fox and most of the characters were animals and so on. Not everything have to looks the same, let creators do what they want with their games and if you don't like them, play something else. Is that simple.
I enjoyed GTA: SA and most of the characters were black, I enjoyed Alan Wake and most of the characters were white, I enjoyed Life is Strange and most of the characters were LGBTQ+, I enjoyed Star Fox and most of the characters were animals and so on. Not everything have to looks the same, let creators do what they want with their games and if you don't like them, play something else. Is that simple.
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Thabass
Member
I know it's based on a medieval setting, but I don't think his reasoning is too sound because it's a fantasy game. It's not like people of other races didn't exist in those times. Though, admittedly, it wouldn't make much sense given the type of setting there trying to go for, I guess.
Regardless, I don't think his comments were blasphemous or anything. But I do think it's a bit silly to defend it. You could have had plenty of races in a game that's a fantasy based medieval setting.
Regardless, I don't think his comments were blasphemous or anything. But I do think it's a bit silly to defend it. You could have had plenty of races in a game that's a fantasy based medieval setting.
Hayabusa83
Banned
If you need fictional characters to look like you so you can connect with them better than you need mental help.
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
Stop even acknowledging the raging pink hairs.....disappointing that he even talked about it
Ghost of Caelid
Banned
Need? It’s not criminally enforced so all the daily wire non woke content is there for you consumption. Encouraged isn’t forcing anyone to do anything. All content has levels of encouragement that is culturally driven by a myriad of factors be it a demographic target or theme.
killatopak
Gold Member
Inspired is different from actual middle east.I'd be 100% OK with them being all white European-like if it was based on mideval Europe as he said, but there's a clearly middle eastern inspired area.
Sorry but the same excuse that people tell that it is fantasy so it should be possible can and will be used in the opposite way as a valid reason. A fantasy world CAN contain one single race. Just look at any science fiction alien planet and I’m 95% sure the predominant sentient alien race is homogenous. It just become as issue when it concerns humans or earth like planets.
I’m POC as well but I don’t scream to be represented in every media. That just screams ME, ME, ME.
The "Oh we're going for a medieval feel for this" is a bit of a hard sell, when you've got summons and weird plant monsters. If this were a low-fantasy title, where we are clearly drawing comparisons between the game and known history - sure. What we have here is a fantasy game firmly entrenched in a fantasy world that has no real reason to "make sense" ethnically. Just say "This is the vision we had for this world, and it didn't occur to us in the character design phase to make them look any other way than what we've shown." Which is perfectly fine and preferred to this hacky response.
. . .and honestly, given the FF series history of treating its non-White characters, this is probably for the best.
When your promoting your game to a largely "Western" (dunno why you hyper-focused on "american" there) audience, you should really expect to get questions like this.
. . .and honestly, given the FF series history of treating its non-White characters, this is probably for the best.
When your promoting your game to a largely "Western" (dunno why you hyper-focused on "american" there) audience, you should really expect to get questions like this.
Fbh
Gold Member
We already had this thread and it got locked
Either way I'll say the same thing I said back then. It's a Japanese game made in japan, I find it funny how these woke Americans who are supposedly so open minded can't comprehend that the USA isn't the entire world and not everything has to account for social issues and racial tension in america. Imagine a Japanese publication went to pester all american devs about the lack of Japanese minorities in their games: "why aren't there ainu people in God of War Ragnarok?"
Either way I'll say the same thing I said back then. It's a Japanese game made in japan, I find it funny how these woke Americans who are supposedly so open minded can't comprehend that the USA isn't the entire world and not everything has to account for social issues and racial tension in america. Imagine a Japanese publication went to pester all american devs about the lack of Japanese minorities in their games: "why aren't there ainu people in God of War Ragnarok?"
ahtlas7
Member
Contrast the response of Tarantino and Robbie. ...From two different worlds. Unbelievable. He didn't entertain their bs but she waded into their sewage and loved it.
Guilty_AI
Gold Member
Because the 'indentity quotas' that these people usually promote are representative of US's demographic, not the west.
They probably did. Preparing for dumb questions is, like, interview 101.
102 says there doesn't exist satisfactory answers for dumb questions.
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Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
ZiZ
Member
The "it's a fantasy world, you can do whatever" is a dumb excuse, that I don't agree with, and as you can see from reading this thread, neither do most posters here. Also, this isn't about representation. I'm not white, and I very much dislike how western media handles diversity/representation and would rather I not be represented at all than be represented by the bullshit they are peddling.
I'm just saying fantasy at the very least should hold itself to the rules that it is establishing, having all the middle eastern-like people, be European-like in appearance, names, etc. is just as dumb as Netflix having a show about vikings where the last king of the vikings is a black woman.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
That’s not much of a spoiler, the game has much, MUCH bigger twists.Ouch... That was a SPOILER for me in 13 sentinels.
Heimdall_Xtreme
Hermen Hulst Fanclub's #1 Member
Gamerdude123
Banned
yes, the game definitely needs more diversity. I love it when games tell me I´m a piece of shit for being a straight white male.
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