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Naruto Manga Thread (OT) - The End is here

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1

1138

Member
SolVanderlyn said:
The only things that were really out of place were Tobi = Obito
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I thought like half the fanbase expected Tobi to be Obito, at least before the Madara reveal in the Rain village. Also, many still believed that Tobi was Obito even after he declared himself to be Madara to the five kages. I would even say that Kabuto's mystery coffin sealed Tobi = Obito like a year in advance of the reveal. Of all the things Kishi pulled during the war arc, Tobi being Obito was definitely not among the most far-fetched ideas.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Rebel Leader said:
The movie is definitely gonna touch naruto & hinata but what about the others?

Do we know how long this movie is gonna be?
Click to expand...

Well in the movie we see nomad Sasuke with no arm. I'm assuming he comes back to Konoha which would mean him reuniting with Sakura......I'm sure Sasuke and Sakura's love will be touched upon in the movie. Its definitely more of a Naruhina movie form the trailers though.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
1138 said:
I thought like half the fanbase expected Tobi to be Obito, at least before the Madara reveal in the Rain village. Also, many still believed that Tobi was Obito even after he declared himself to be Madara to the five kages. I would even say that Kabuto's mystery coffin sealed Tobi = Obito like a year in advance of the reveal. Of all the things Kishi pulled during the war arc, Tobi being Obito was definitely not among the most far-fetched ideas.
Click to expand...

It was more obvious if you were following the manga prior to Part 2/Shippuden because Kakashi Gaiden was right in between the timeskip transition, and Tobi is shown at the end of Part 2's first arc. Also the first Part 2 arc is when Kakashi first uses Kamui. The timing of the gaiden was too convenient.

Psycho_Mantis said:
Its amazing how just because their shipping was shown to be not real, suddenly, Kishimoto is a bad author, suddenly naruto is a horrible manga, suddenly Sakura is a bad character......such a sad state of affairs.
Click to expand...

These were all true well before 699-700
 
Z

Zeroth

Member
Psycho_Mantis said:
Its amazing how just because their shipping was shown to be not real, suddenly, Kishimoto is a bad author, suddenly naruto is a horrible manga, suddenly Sakura is a bad character......such a sad state of affairs.
Click to expand...

Sasuke and Sakura together is legitimately bad writing, but seems like *some* people are using it as an excuse to retroactively shit on Kishimoto, probably because it helps their "Sakura and Naruto was the real deal" mentality.
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
1138 said:
I thought like half the fanbase expected Tobi to be Obito, at least before the Madara reveal in the Rain village. Also, many still believed that Tobi was Obito even after he declared himself to be Madara to the five kages. I would even say that Kabuto's mystery coffin sealed Tobi = Obito like a year in advance of the reveal. Of all the things Kishi pulled during the war arc, Tobi being Obito was definitely not among the most far-fetched ideas.
Click to expand...
It definitely had build up to it, but the way Obito actually survived and Madara having little to no reason to save him and just happened to be there felt like very low grade writing, even for a shonen manga.
 
T

Trey

Member
We're all focusing on the love angle of the finale. But really, it's the disrespect of the themes Kishi set up in part 1 that bother me the most about this manga.

specifically, I rewatched the Neji and Naruto fight. Neji goes on about caged birds and destiny, but one thing stood out to me: Neji says something like "you aren't destined to be Hokage. You're a scrub." And of course Naruto defies this and punches some sense into Neji, changing his entire world view in the process. That's supposed to be the big takeaway here: that Naruto controls his own fate and passes that sensibility on to Neji, who is destiny personified at this point. Naruto brings up how he overcame his failings through sheer hard work, and that's the moral of his character

But then Naruto is actually the child of destiny. That entirely subverts his whole character. How do you even do that as a writer?
 
T

The Silver

Member
SolVanderlyn said:
I feel like Pain would have been a stronger conclusion, but the war arc touched on a lot of supernatural themes that the series had been carrying since the beginning.

It's all well and good to have a ninja world, but things like the Nine Tails felt out of place from the start. The tailed beasts were always important to the story, and investigating their origin during the War arc and beyond added a level of closure to the story that ending with Pain couldn't have done. That said, keeping the beasts as a mystery would have been an alright ending, too, but what we got wasn't as left field as people usually claim it is and actually built off the rest of the series' scaffolding in a lot of ways. Things we got from going beyond Pain:

-Seeing more of the other villages/parts of the ninja world

-Seeing the five kage

-Closure to Danzo's story/Root subplot

-Sasuke finally escaping the "kill Itachi" shadow he'd been living under for the entire series

-Madara and Hashirama's backstory and the history of the hidden villages

-Learning what was on the Uchiha tablet (HUGE hints towards this throughout the series)

-Learning why the tailed beasts exist

-Tobi's identity

The only things that were really out of place were Tobi = Obito (although this was pulled off decently, I would have preferred Tobi actually be Madara or someone entirely new) and Kaguya's revival. Sage Madara was enough a final villain for Kaguya to feel entirely unnecessary, although you could argue that she needed closure as the series' real big bad ever since we learned her role in creating the ten tails. I feel like the techniques being used had to reach astronomically high levels of power because we had finally gotten to the be-all, end-all of a series that had insanely powerful creatures (Nine Tails) from the beginning, and they had to contend with that somehow.

Naruto and Sasuke ending things basically by themselves and the insanely rushed nature of the last few battles show how this all occured by Kishimoto writing himself into a corner, however. The last few arcs lacked a sense of refinement and things like Zetsu and his real identity, and the villain changing every fifty chapters, felt really wonky. I think it's possible to defend the decision to continue the series to the point that it got to, conceptually, but it's undeniably full of flaws in its writing and I can understand why so many people take issue with it.
Click to expand...

I said "wish it had been structured" I don't mean I want everything to be the same and then it ends after Pain, I mean everything leading to Pain would be different. We would have already seen the other villages(easy way to do this is greatly expand on the other jinchuruuki and their capture) ,Sasuke would be dealt with before the showdown with Pain.

I don't think for a second that power levels had to reach as high as they did. The bijuu are the nukes of the Naruto world, humans don't need to get into fist fights and win against nukes. Seal them up? Mess with their minds? Fine. Match and surpass them blow for blow? Unneccessary. Pain as the final villain with his rinnegan would be the sole exception.
 
Y

Yado

Member
DryEyeRelief said:
It was more obvious if you were following the manga prior to Part 2/Shippuden because Kakashi Gaiden was right in between the timeskip transition, and Tobi is shown at the end of Part 2's first arc. Also the first Part 2 arc is when Kakashi first uses Kamui. The timing of the gaiden was too convenient.



These were all true well before 699-700
Click to expand...

This is true.

So uh, how old was Tobi when he orchestrated the death of Naruto's parents and razed Konoha?
 
H

Heroman

Banned
Psycho_Mantis said:
Its amazing how just because their shipping was shown to be not real, suddenly, Kishimoto is a bad author, suddenly naruto is a horrible manga, suddenly Sakura is a bad character......such a sad state of affairs.
Click to expand...
Honestly I don't understand this feeling because pairing was never a big point,and kishi didn't give a fuck about it.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Trey said:
We're all focusing on the love angle of the finale. But really, it's the disrespect of the themes Kishi set up in part 1 that bother me the most about this manga.

specifically, I rewatched the Neji and Naruto fight. Neji goes on about caged birds and destiny, but one thing stood out to me: Neji says something like "you aren't destined to be Hokage. You're a scrub." And of course Naruto defies this and punches some sense into Neji, changing his entire world view in the process. That's supposed to be the big takeaway here: that Naruto controls his own fate and passes that sensibility on to Neji, who is destiny personified at this point. Naruto brings up how he overcame his failings through sheer hard work, and that's the moral of his character

But then Naruto is actually the child of destiny. That entirely subverts his whole character. How do you even do that as a writer?
Click to expand...

Well if you actually read the manga you would realise that Naruto got to where he was through hard work and perseverance. Just being the reincarnation of ashura doesn't result in the accomplishment of his feats as it is noted that in the generations between Sasuke and Naruto and Madara and Hashirama, the reincarnations did not amount to much.
 
E

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
The series got progressively worse once it went away from the chunnin arc dynamics with the different teams and stuff.

I was rewatching some stuff from chunnin exams arc, holy shit so good. the arc was superb, and to top it off we got the Orochimaru/3rd Hokage fight which is GOAT, only rivaled by the Pain/Jiraiya fight.
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
The Silver said:
I said "wish it had been structured" I don't mean I want everything to be the same and then it ends after Pain, I mean everything leading to Pain would be different. We would have already seen the other villages(easy way to do this is greatly expand on the other jinchuruuki and their capture) ,Sasuke would be dealt with before the showdown with Pain.

I don't think for a second that power levels had to reach as high as they did. The bijuu are the nukes of the Naruto world, humans don't need to get into fist fights and win against nukes. Seal them up? Mess with their minds? Fine. Match and surpass them blow for blow? Unneccessary. Pain as the final villain with his rinnegan would be the sole exception.
Click to expand...
Ah, ok, I see what you meant. Yeah, I actually agree with this, there were a lot of better ways they could have led up to Pain and put in all the extra exposition before that fight. You have a point with the nuke analogy, too.

Still, though, I'm just trying to look on the bright side and point out the good parts about what we did get.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Trey said:
We're all focusing on the love angle of the finale. But really, it's the disrespect of the themes Kishi set up in part 1 that bother me the most about this manga.

specifically, I rewatched the Neji and Naruto fight. Neji goes on about caged birds and destiny, but one thing stood out to me: Neji says something like "you aren't destined to be Hokage. You're a scrub." And of course Naruto defies this and punches some sense into Neji, changing his entire world view in the process. That's supposed to be the big takeaway here: that Naruto controls his own fate and passes that sensibility on to Neji, who is destiny personified at this point. Naruto brings up how he overcame his failings through sheer hard work, and that's the moral of his character

But then Naruto is actually the child of destiny. That entirely subverts his whole character. How do you even do that as a writer?
Click to expand...

Here's how I would've done it. Make Naruto much stronger on the onset, as in stronger than Kakashi onward to Jiraiya’s level. By this time, he should have already been ready to face off the average Akatsuki member. Condense part of Sage training, element training, and KB training into that three-year timeskip and PART of complete mastery of Kyubi. Kishi likes flashbacks, so when he displays his new technique that he learned with Jiraiya, just do a brief flashback on the key fundamentals that led to his mastery of them. “That jutsu” being specifically Bijuudama FRS that Naruto is warned not to use.

At the early parts of Part II, have what is currently his chakra mode be heavily implied but not outright. If I were to elaborate, if anyone is familiar with Dragon Ball, in some movies, Goku had what was a “False SSJ” transformation, most notably in the Lord Slug movie. Well, Naruto could have something similar to this, a “False Chakra Mode”, something like what he displayed against Gaara. It would be unlike the tailed forms or KNO. Kyubi’s chakra would take on the golden Yang properties and give Naruto an enormous but brief boost, and only attained during the most extreme of emotional duress and/or tedious concentration.THEN if it used too long, goes into the more unstable and volatile tailed forms. On that note, keeping Naruto’s confrontation with Orochimaru on the bridge as realization of how destructive he can be if he loses control kept in place. Although minor difference being I’d have Orochimaru instilled with far more fear over this power, and serious second-guessing on whether he should have taken Naruto as a host body instead.

All of Naruto’s training then can be exclusively focused on mastering the two essential forms of Full Sage and Chakra Modes. The mastery of one being essential to mastery of the other. More specifically, having to master Chakra Mode BEFORE Sage Mode. The things like meeting his mom, reconciling with Kurama and all kept intact, but moved up before meeting his father. In the midst of it all, most importantly display Naruto learning and appreciating the responsibilities of authority and leadership. Promoting him to Jonin and mentoring young ninja, namely Konohamaru; having him take the lead on his own team’s missions as well. To show that practically speaking he was growing to a Hokage’s role.

Last but not least, completely rid of the concept of “Child of Destiny”. Naruto’s character definitely did not need that. If you must have it then have nagato have been the indisputable “Child of Destiny”, and having Naruto beat him and turn the fate of the world around be that much more profound. Showing that along the lines of what he said in Part I, would “screw” destiny if that’s what he had to do.
 
3

360pages

Member
Psycho_Mantis said:
Well if you actually read the manga you would realise that Naruto got to where he was through hard work and perseverance. Just being the reincarnation of ashura doesn't result in the accomplishment of his feats as it is noted that in the generations between Sasuke and Naruto and Madara and Hashirama, the reincarnations did not amount to much.
Click to expand...

I think it's a fair point, even before the dumbass reincarnation plot, he slowly figured out that Naruto's dad was a super awesome 4th Hokage that people wetted themselves just hearing about. Then we figure out his mom is a part of a super awesome clan that has huge chakara.

He pretty much ended up being more special than Sasuke, even though it was obvious that he was the forth's kid from the start. They made it a point not to tell the viewer outright and never tell Naruto. Plus, this was when the forth was just a normal dude pretty much despite being really skilled.
 
T

Trey

Member
Psycho_Mantis said:
Well if you actually read the manga you would realise that Naruto got to where he was through hard work and perseverance. Just being the reincarnation of ashura doesn't result in the accomplishment of his feats as it is noted that in the generations between Sasuke and Naruto and Madara and Hashirama, the reincarnations did not amount to much.
Click to expand...

So passive aggressive. It's not necessary, we're just having a discussion.

Kishi started down this path when he began to give Naruto power ups that were irrespective of his personal autonomy. Stuff like fixing the seal leak which gave Naruto an hilarious amount of chakra. Then making him the sage prince or whatever (I actually kind of liked this arc, but this is where all the child of destiny shit started). Combine that with Uzumaki becoming a top tier blood line retroactively and his father being the fourth Hokage: the architect of the aforementioned seal. All of that combined to give him his super saiyan sage mode nonsense, which was like three straight power ups that came for free. This is not even touching all his talk no jutsu bullshit.

It all flies in the face of Naruto being a no talent scrub with a chip on his shoulder, who uses the pain of his childhood to make something grand for himself. The kyuubi is a demon; a curse he must live with because him being the vessel for the kyuubi means he is also the salvation of his village. All that is lost in part 2.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
There's no passive aggressive ness here lol. I genuinely surprised.....there are so so so many occasions in Naruto where we are shwon his perserverence, the one I remember the most is him learning rasengan.
 
balgajo

balgajo

Member
1138 said:
I thought like half the fanbase expected Tobi to be Obito, at least before the Madara reveal in the Rain village. Also, many still believed that Tobi was Obito even after he declared himself to be Madara to the five kages. I would even say that Kabuto's mystery coffin sealed Tobi = Obito like a year in advance of the reveal. Of all the things Kishi pulled during the war arc, Tobi being Obito was definitely not among the most far-fetched ideas.
Click to expand...



Naruto had many problems, but Obito = Tobi is not one of them.

Before Tobi appeared, I always thought that Kakashi Gaiden was strangely out of place. Never saw a purpouse on it.Then comes a character that retrieves Deidara's arm(which was sucked by Kakashi's power), with just one sharigan (in the opposite position of Kakashi's), wearing a mask with a whilrwind shape(same shape of the secret jutsu that Kakashi used against Deidara), with a spiked black hair.
Doesn't need to be a genius to deduce what Kishi was trying to acomplish.
 
3

360pages

Member
Winterfang said:
No way Oro is stronger than Kabuto.
Click to expand...

What, Oro got stomped by the sauce, even if he was weakened during that. Oro has the ability to survive almost anything, but he actually doesn't have that much offensive ablities that can get in or break something like Susoono.
 
W

Winterfang

Banned
360pages said:
What, Oro got stomped by the sauce, even if he was weakened during that. Oro has the ability to survive almost anything, but he actually doesn't have that much offensive ablities that can get in or break something like Susoono.
Click to expand...

That's why I said that there's no way that Oro is stronger than Kabuto.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
360pages said:
What, Oro got stomped by the sauce, even if he was weakened during that. Oro has the ability to survive almost anything, but he actually doesn't have that much offensive ablities that can get in or break something like Susoono.
Click to expand...

Why I've always argued that KCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke could potentially stomp the Sannin, like Hanzo did.

Any of their other power ups and it becomes a goddamn massacre.
 
D

DryEyeRelief

Member
Yado said:
This is true.

So uh, how old was Tobi when he orchestrated the death of Naruto's parents and razed Konoha?
Click to expand...

14? Kakashi Gaiden happened when Kakashi was 13. There's a 14 year age difference between him and Naruto, Naruto was born the day Kyuubi attacked the village.
 
U

Unknown One

Member
1138 said:
I thought like half the fanbase expected Tobi to be Obito, at least before the Madara reveal in the Rain village. Also, many still believed that Tobi was Obito even after he declared himself to be Madara to the five kages. I would even say that Kabuto's mystery coffin sealed Tobi = Obito like a year in advance of the reveal. Of all the things Kishi pulled during the war arc, Tobi being Obito was definitely not among the most far-fetched ideas.
Click to expand...

It was far fetched because the execution was terrible.
 
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