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Naruto Manga Thread (OT) - The End is here
- Thread starter SolVanderlyn
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The Silver
Member
Is Konan the only member we didn't see without their akatsuki cloak? That's some impressive restraint Kishi.
So... sending a message, but coding it for some reason (so Nagato wouldn't learn something he already knows about himself?), and doing such a bad job at it that it could very well have remained gibberish? Guess Jiraiya was a terrible shinobi.
Jiraiya died giving Konoha a chance to beat Nagato. If they hadn't know about his techniques, who knew how that would have gone, how many more people would have died?
Winterfang
Banned
We saw her in flashbacks but not when she was a grown up, curvy sexy lady.
I wonder is Kishi is ever going to explain obvious BS techniques like Konan paper abilities, why dies Deidara has 3 extra mouths, and pretty much every Ninja Art technique (Sai ink, Shikamaru shadow control, Choji expansion jutsu etc..)
Again: he used a convoluted (and poorly written) code for no good reason.
Let's say Nagato didn't know because of that code (and didn't even theorize that Jiraiya of all people could figure it out, and maybe that's what those numbers were about)... I don't remember the message actually helping. Did it?
How often do people choose to remember of the good and not the bad of people who have passed? That's a human thing to do. Yes, Obito was evil for the majority of his life, but you have to keep in mind that A) this is a show about ninja, and B) that everyone fucked up.
Look at Itachi, he killed his entire clan. He was forced to, but he did it, and he was part of an organisation that hunted down and killed people. Itachi was forgiven by Sasuke, who became a criminal himself and seems to have been forgiven.
The closest example perhaps is Orochimaru. Orochimaru has done of the most heinous shit, from kidnapping and experimenting on babies (that led to their deaths), to keeping an entire clan as slaves and experimenting on them to killing his sensei. This war arc? Hiruzen seems to not give a fuck. Tsunade seems to not give a fuck. Nobody seems to give a fuck that he's in their presence.
Actually, Nagato is probably a better example. Sure, he revived them all, but he killed hundreds of Konoha shinobi and villagers. Naruto forgave him, respected him, and thought only of the good in him, not the evil. Obito is no different.
Obito absolutely is a victim of the system, and he's not the only one. Orochimaru was a victim; the death of his parents led to his fascination with immortality. Zabuza was a victim of a system; he was forced to enter a free for all to the death and turned out the way he did. Itachi, Kisame, Sasori, Kakuzu - the list goes on and on. The way the current shinobi system works is deeply, deeply flawed and some of the victims turned out the way they do.
It probably helps to prioritise the manga's internal logic over real world logic.
Winterfang
Banned
It did, they figure out someone was controlling the paths via remote control, then Konoha's finest manage to figure out, who he was controlling the paths, and where he was (highest point, not to far). A couple of skill Shinobi actually went to fight Nagato. The whole thing was a crazy luck thing, or maybe destiny.
Naruto recognised the katakana Jiraiya used, so it was obvious enough. And keep in mind the man literally willed himself back to life long enough to write the code.
It did help because they went looking for Nagato's real body.
The message was something like "The real one isn't with them." which was helpful.
Not because of that message though. It was all because of that Pain corpse they were studying. The figured those black rods were receptors, so the rest logically followed. The message wasn't even needed in the end.
(note that I'm not arguing that Jiraiya should have known his message would have been redundant in the end, just that Kishimoto didn't manage to make Jiraiya's last act actually useful)
Man, that's some liberal use of the word "obvious"...
If anything, it makes it even more ridiculous that he bothered with such a code.
Maddocks
Member
Yes, because Jiraiya gave them the code, a person to interogate and one of pains bodies.
Naruto was able to tell them where to look for the code, in one of the books which gave the code(the real one is not with them) and with the body they learned it was receiving chakra signals, and with the person they interrogated they realized one of the bodies was just delivered to nagato showed up during the battle and it was delivered to the tallest tower in the village. So with all of that info Jiraiya gave them, it helped them point in the direction to find him.
Jiraiya didn't predict that naruto would go and train to learn sage techs, but he found out where nagato was located with them, but naruto was also found by the search team looking for where nagato was located. So Jiraiya did a crap load to help the village take on pain.
See above. I was criticizing:
1) Jiraiya for using a poorly written code that almost went undeciphered instead of simply writing the fucking thing down or, hell, telling Fukasaku (Nagato should have theorized the coded message contained critical information and prepared for the worst anyway)
2) Kishimoto for not managing to make the message (i.e. Jiraiya's last act) actually crucial during the battle against Pain: it was made redundant by the autopsy of that Pain corpse
Maddocks
Member
But Pain did try to stop the code from getting out. He tried to explode him into the afterlife.
3 pieces of the puzzle that Jiraiya gave.
1. the code that was for naruto
2. body for the medical team. tsunade
3. person to interrogate because the village has 2 people made for that. Master interrogator and a mind reader.
all 3 together is what helped them find nagato. The body alone with the medical team wouldn't have gave enough info, all they would have got was the black rods was receiving, but wouldn't have known what it even meant.
3 pieces of the puzzle that Jiraiya gave.
1. the code that was for naruto
2. body for the medical team. tsunade
3. person to interrogate because the village has 2 people made for that. Master interrogator and a mind reader.
all 3 together is what helped them find nagato. The body alone with the medical team wouldn't have gave enough info, all they would have got was the black rods was receiving, but wouldn't have known what it even meant.
Well, of course. I would hope so!
My point was the code was unnecessary, and actually quite risky, as it almost went undeciphered (obscure and poorly written). I was told that it was so Nagato wouldn't know that Jiraiya had figured his secret out. And I replied that Nagato really should have theorized that's what happened anyway, when he saw Jiraiya send that coded message: "I don't know what those numbers meant, but considering he sent them as he was dying and went through the trouble of using a code, I might as well assume the worst." So the precaution hardly justified the risks.
Again, I was just talking about his last act, that is to say the coded message, there.
Dusk Soldier
Member
Without the code, there was nothing to stop them from assuming that one of the six bodies was controlling the other five.
Nagato was still far enough away that traditional methods of sensing chakra couldn't pick up on his location.
Considering all Pain bodies look the same (human bodies with those black rod things in them), that would be quite the odd assumption / leap of logic for them to make.
Who knows he could be dying the hair of the bodies
No, not thats bullshit.
He was a terrorist, he ruined lives. Sasuke is still young and hasn't done much, he can fix some shit.
This guy? He fucked up, bad, alot for a very long time.
Thats some bullshit logic.
TastyOreoFriend
Member
That depends, were they killers that manipulated and murdered time and time again? I don't think anyone's really going to think of all the good things that Charles Manson did that's for sure. Nelson Mandella? yeah, Mother Teresa maybe, the leader of the grand knights of the ku klux klan? Not so much.
Even in a show about Ninja's "right" and "wrong" has already been established in the Naruto universe. So the "everyone's a little ___" argument doesn't apply and is a bad argument to begin with. Especially since everyone who's been considered the "bad guy" has been killed/dealt with as all shounens do, even in this manga about redemption and forgiveness. They didn't HAVE to become murdering bastards but they did.
That all could just as easily be explained by circumstances. No one has time to be pissed off about anything he did when they're trying to bring down someone who's trying to destroy the world-and the fact that he aided them with unclear motives does not really change that.
Again your argument isn't taking into account free will or choice, and is playing far too much off absolutes. Nothing is absolute here. "For every yes answer there are a thousand no's" - Mark Ruddock. For every yes answer logically there will always be a no as well . Orochimaru didn't have to kill, manipulate, and experiment on all those people, but he CHOOSE to do so; there was always a no don't do it. Zabuza is an extreme case, but there are plenty of people who walk away from abusive situations as well and don't turn out to be murdering bastards. Same goes for every other person you listed, ie Itachi was never forced into killing his whole clan-he choose to do so as to prevent a civil war in the land of fire, because as the manga implied all the way up to his 2nd death he would do anything for the safety of the hidden leaf village that he loved. Village > Clan.
These guys are terrorist who destroyed peoples lives. They didn't absolutely have to do that, but they choose to none the less.
Manga's and any entertainment media are based on real world logic though. The base is always going to triumph, and a conflict between the authors bastardizing of real world logic is going to happen with the reader if something isn't quite right, regardless of their appeal to emotions. Your logic, like the manga is really bad here.
The argument your presenting basically boils down to blaming the system in lieu of personal responsibility and free will. If the Naruto-verse truly functioned like that no one would be punished for anything as long as a little 16 year old boy said "its ok, I forgive you and your so awesome!!!", right to the guy who, up until a few chapters ago, was just trying to murder him and is also the murderer of his parents no less. There would be no reason to seek justice for anyone and would invalidate half the fights that took place throughout the manga.
Why even go after Orochimaru, Akatsuki or anyone who does bad things with that kind of logic. That's just taking the forgive and forget thing way to far, and is a slap in the face to the readers and basic human emotions.
Um, Sasuke attacked an international summit of no less than six villages/nations. In the process, he killed the acting leader of one of the villages, cut the arm off of another, and his accomplice declared war on the ninja world.
Its to bad that everyone will probably give him a pardon once he helps Naruto take out the big bad. Who knows though. Maybe he will be punished.
The Silver
Member
im telling you guys, Raikage is going to sneak up and take the Sauce's head off while Naruto is giving his big speech.
The lightning bros have always been immune to Naruto and Sasuke's bullshit.
The lightning bros have always been immune to Naruto and Sasuke's bullshit.
The amount of bullshit that is overlooked and forgiven by people is probably my number one complaint. Obito fucking killed Neji, i mean come on that is practically Naruto's soon to be brother in law for crying out loud. You just forgive that shit. No biggie.
And Sasuke...just...ugh.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
That's because they all know that the shinobi world is a fucked up one. Sasuke is a product of it.
Can't wait for the anime to air this episode and follow it up with 6 weeks of Rin-Obito filler episodes. It's gonna happen. Trust me.
They're going to make you feel sorry for the guy. Watch. I don't care though because Obito killed Konan and led to the death of another favorite kunoichi of mine (Kushina). Rot in hell bastard.
Okay, I'm off. Have to work.
They're going to make you feel sorry for the guy. Watch. I don't care though because Obito killed Konan and led to the death of another favorite kunoichi of mine (Kushina). Rot in hell bastard.
Okay, I'm off. Have to work.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Exactly. You ain't a hero obito, you're just butthurt that you got friendzoned.
trailer up on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3oSYxieqnw
everyday math
Banned
We don't talk about that.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
It's less the way it sounds and more the way he's talking. He sounds more collected and confident. He also only spoke one word, so it's pretty early to really say anything.
I'm on #teamlonghair, but his new look is good too. Orange pants are still ridiculous, even moreso as an adult, but that's Naruto for you.
The Silver
Member
They need to bring out the A-Team animators, his face looks.....off.
Zoe
Member
LOL
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Hair looks great. He can't be 14 forever guys. Although the orange pants do negate that haha.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Man, he looks great. I want to see him in his other clothing too. His hair definitely makes him look more badass when it's short but yeah the headband seems bigger than normal which makes it a bit weird.
The bandages are definitely covering up something.
The bandages are definitely covering up something.
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