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[British Monsoon]

Kicking out of a wrestler's finisher happens more in WWE than it does on the indies these days.

 

[Gonzalez]

The drawings are good

I laughed at "Lady-bastard".

 

[Aiii]

Like seriously, kicking out of finishers has become this forced add on to every big match now.

I get it, these guys are forced to have the same match on every show for years. They're not allowed new moves. They're not allowed to bleed. They're not allowed to do high risk drops from ladders onto tables. Hitting finishers and kicking out of them is literally all they get to do without management shutting them down or getting heat on them.

 

[Bronx-Man]

Just do what Punk did. Say screw the rules and piledrive a motherfucker.

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Wait, is Ziggler supposed to be a HBK clone because if not they're not doing a good job of making it seem so. Similar jacket, pants, boots, etc.

 

[Ithil]

Wait, is Ziggler supposed to be a HBK clone because if not they're not doing a good job of making it seem so. Similar jacket, pants, boots, etc.

He did the bloody stomps in the corner for the superkick. Cole called it a "homage", I think this goes into rip-off territory and puts a down payment on a house.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I wonder if the WWE agents will be telling their wrestlers to work safer and not take as many stupid bumps, considering the state of the injured roster.

 

[Caderfix]

Wait, is Ziggler supposed to be a HBK clone because if not they're not doing a good job of making it seem so. Similar jacket, pants, boots, etc.

He's just desperate to be a thing, to be anything. Ziggler is the worst.

I wonder if the WWE agents will be telling their wrestlers to work safer and not take as many stupid bumps, considering the state of the injured roster.

I think so, yeah.

Otherwise we'll end up having Adam Rose vs Breeze for the WWE belt at Wrestlemania.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Kicking out of a wrestler's finisher happens more in WWE than it does on the indies these days.

If we had squash matches with jobbers back, you wouldn't need to kick out of finishes often because they wouldn't happen to notable people very often.

Enhancement talent is the key to all this.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Angry Grimace, please enjoy for the next 30 days:

Almost certainly a more entertaining champ than Sheamus, she probably has a more interesting road to the title as well.

 

[Kaladin]

The best thing to come out of last night is the hope that maybe, maybe Kevin Owens is due a main event run next year.

They're giving him more of a chance to move up than most in his current position.

 

[Mr. Sam]

So Ziggler's basically a Young Buck?

 

[Aiii]

If we had squash matches with jobbers back, you wouldn't need to kick out of finishes often because they wouldn't happen to notable people very often.

Enhancement talent is the key to all this.

With 6 to 9 hours of weekly TV to fill, no amount of jobbers are going to help, I believe.

 

[Kaladin]

So Ziggler's basically a Young Buck?

When you think about it that way, a Ziggler / Breeze tag team would be WWE's Superkick party. They both even have the move in their arsenal.

 

[Rutti]

Almost certainly a more entertaining champ than Sheamus, she probably has a more interesting road to the title as well.

Her belt also puts diva's belt to shame.

 

[Mahonay]

Like seriously, kicking out of finishers has become this forced add on to every big match now.

Yep. Felt painfully forced in the Reigns/Ambrose match.

Only positive coming out of last night is that I can continue to completely skip RAW and not worry about missing anything good.

 

[Couleurs]

Roman celebrating with the title as a shitload of confetti fell and pyros were going off, while the audience watched in complete boredom/silence has got to the the most WWE thing to happen in a long time. It's astounding how consistently out of touch and tone deaf they are.

 

[Mahonay]

Roman celebrating with the title as a shitload of confetti fell and pyros were going off, while the audience watched in complete boredom/silence has got to the the most WWE thing to happen in a long time. It's astounding how they're consistently out of touch they are with what the fans want.

I was laughing at that extreme amount of confetti and fireworks. The part where you could single out the few people in the crowd actually pumped for this moment, while everyone else sat on their hands, made it really sad looking even before Sheamus showed up. The funny thing is that lately I've really wanted to get behind Reigns because I thought it made since to give him the title here, instead they succeeded in making me hate him just as much as I did going into Mania 31.

Last night is the first time in my life where I cheered for Sheamus. Probably the first and last.

Good ol' lobster head.

 

[GunBR]

Roman celebrating with the title as a shitload of confetti fell and pyros were going off, while the audience watched in complete boredom/silence has got to the the most WWE thing to happen in a long time. It's astounding how consistently out of touch and tone deaf they are.

The funny thing is that (most of) the audience would go nuts if Ambrose had won the title

But no, they will keep pushing Roman until everyone loves him

Spoiler

(or they will finally give up and feed him to Cena)

 

[Ithil]

Roman celebrating with the title as a shitload of confetti fell and pyros were going off, while the audience watched in complete boredom/silence has got to the the most WWE thing to happen in a long time. It's astounding how consistently out of touch and tone deaf they are.

Similar to the Rumble win with a parade of boos as Reigns points at the sign while the commentators scream loudly about how amazing this is and his music blares at full volume.

 

[klonere]

I never watched Summerslam 2014 so I was unware of this parallel

https://streamable.com/t997

 

[Mr. Sam]

I'd consider myself a big fan of Reigns (I certainly think he's much more accomplished in the ring than many give him credit for) but he's been consistently sabotaged by bad writing that's made empathising with him impossible.

 

[Gonzalez]

I was laughing at the "This is Roman's defining moment" when he speared HHH, and Cole called it like if it was on par with Austin stunning Vince.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

That was one of the worst PPVs I've ever seen.

 

[jmdajr]

I wonder if the WWE agents will be telling their wrestlers to work safer and not take as many stupid bumps, considering the state of the injured roster.

I think so, yeah.

Otherwise we'll end up having Adam Rose vs Breeze for the WWE belt at Wrestlemania.

TLC NEXT MOTH!

 

[Frecklestein]

Why didn't Sheamus cash in on the vacant title and get it for free with no effort or worry it could backfire?

 

[avengers23]

Time to bring back the stairs match for TLC 2015.

Why didn't Sheamus cash in on the vacant title and get it for free with no effort or worry it could backfire?

Because it's a contract for a match for any title at any time, and you can't beat Abeyance.

 

[Kaladin]

At this point, I'd be happy if they book Sheamus as a strong champion with a good reign for even 3 - 4 months leading to Mania.

Who am I kidding, I can't even type that with a straight face.

 

[Mahonay]

I was laughing at the "This is Roman's defining moment" when he speared HHH, and Cole called it like if it was on par with Austin stunning Vince.

I love Breeze but it was hilarious hearing them do the same thing when he beat Ziggler. Going nuts how it's a defining moment for him. Meanwhile crowd is silent.

 

[jmdajr]

I was laughing at the "This is Roman's defining moment" when he speared HHH, and Cole called it like if it was on par with Austin stunning Vince.

Dumb commentators putting over talent. When will they learn.

 

[Mahonay]

I'd consider myself a big fan of Reigns (I certainly think he's much more accomplished in the ring than many give him credit for) but he's been consistently sabotaged by bad writing that's made empathising with him impossible.

Match quality didn't help either. Ambrose didn't help him though, both looked lackluster.

 

[Ithil]

Dumb commentators putting over talent. When will they learn.

Nothing wrong with them doing that, it just becomes hilarious the more and more they do it so over the top while the crowd doesn't line up with the reactions at all.
It's like if you're watching a movie and turn on the subtitles, but they don't match the actual dialogue at all.

It starts to become like commentary are in a different building.

 

[Kaladin]

It's pretty telling when Reigns vs Del Rio was the best match of the night. Owens and Ambrose was a close second.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

 

[jmdajr]

The transition to Roman Reigns has been a heck of a bumpy road. And it's all Daniel Bryan's fault.

 

[imBask]

don't pay for the network

seriously, you guys are ruining the business, it's the equivalent of pre-ordering a new assassin's creed every month

 

[Deleted member 47027]

With 6 to 9 hours of weekly TV to fill, no amount of jobbers are going to help, I believe.

I want HUNDREDS

 

[Sephzilla]

Ziggler stomping in the corner for the Sweet Chin Music was the most eye rolling thing possible

 

[Kaladin]

don't pay for the network

seriously, you guys are ruining the business, it's the equivalent of pre-ordering a new assassin's creed every month

But how am I going to be able to binge old school Raw otherwise?

 

[Aiii]

don't pay for the network

seriously, you guys are ruining the business, it's the equivalent of pre-ordering a new assassin's creed every month

I pay for the Network and I'll keep doing it.

Stuff like Breaking Ground is awesome and well worth your money, as is re-watching old Smackdown's and Nitro's.

If you want to stick it to WWE, stop watching Raw.

I want HUNDREDS

Everyone is working for WWE now though, the indies have maybe 30 people left between them.

 

[Mahonay]

Dumb commentators putting over talent. When will they learn.

Putting over talent in an EXTREMELY scripted way that takes zero queues from how the crowd is reacting. It's forced bullshit that no one is buying. Commentary only made things worse last night. Back in the day JR would have said something like "the crowd appears to be taken back by this young man's victory. They may not be fully behind him but Roman Reigns has finally done it.". That kind of truthful, on the fly commentating would NEVER happen in this current environment of deeply coached and rehearsed lines.

Modern WWE commentary 100 percent makes the viewing experience worse for me.

 

[Kaladin]

I pay for the Network and I'll keep doing it.

Stuff like Breaking Ground is awesome and well worth your money, as is re-watching old Smackdown's and Nitro's.

If you want to stick it to WWE, stop watching Raw.

Even when the ratings tank, they haven't shown a desire to change.

Actually, I think right now they're at the core fan base numbers watching Raw on TV at around 3 million. I doubt even at the lowest of times it would even drop to below 2.5 million.

 

[avengers23]

I pay for the Network and I'll keep doing it.

Stuff like Breaking Ground is awesome and well worth your money, as is re-watching old Smackdown's and Nitro's.

If you want to stick it to WWE, stop watching Raw.



Everyone is working for WWE now though, the indies have maybe 30 people left between them.

Unless you're a Nielsen household, no one gives two shits if you're watching or not watching Raw.

If you're subscribing to the Network, you are directly giving WWE your money.

 

[jmdajr]

Putting over talent in an EXTREMELY scripted way that takes zero queues from how the crowd is reacting. It's forced bullshit that no one is buying. Commentary only made things worse last night. Back in the day JR would have said something like "the crowd appears to be taken back by this young man's victory. They may not be fully behind him but Roman Reigns has finally done it.". That kind of truthful, on the fly commentating would NEVER happen in this current environment of deeply coached and rehearsed lines.

Modern WWE commentary 100 percent makes the viewing experience worse for me.

Horseshit. Not true at all. Heck he said the Wrestlemania 18 crowd between Rock and Hogan was partisan.

This nothing new. At all.

 

[Mahonay]

Horseshit. Not true at all.

Hey man, there were certainly times where he forced calls. But there were plenty of other times where he fit the appropriate mood.

Current commentary has never once felt sincere to me. Never.

 

[imBask]

I pay for the Network and I'll keep doing it.

Stuff like Breaking Ground is awesome and well worth your money, as is re-watching old Smackdown's and Nitro's.

If you want to stick it to WWE, stop watching Raw.



Everyone is working for WWE now though, the indies have maybe 30 people left between them.

giving $10 straight to WWE with no middleman every month is way worst than any TV rating bullshit

 

[Aiii]

giving $10 straight to WWE with no middleman every month is way worst than any TV rating bullshit

Except that when their ratings go, so will their TV deal, and that's what keeps them around.

They make way more money on their TV deal than on the Network.

 

[klonere]

Hey, I have given money to an organization that actively hires slaves to build big stadiums, no need to feel bad giving money to some carnies guys.

 

[Cybit]

I assume it's because if they picked Ambrose, Ambrose would be cheered over Reigns even as a heel.

Yep. WWE's struggling with having two very disparate sets of fans - the older Attitude Era fans and then their sub 25 year old fans. The older set of fans are the ones who tend to buy tickets to RAW and such - but they are waxing nostalgic for all forms of entertainment (see: Hollywood, reboot of every 90s TV show, etc) - and want their anti-heroes / anti-establishment heroes. So they're pre-disposed to liking the bad guys. Most smarks want Reigns to turn heel so they can cheer him (see: Cena).

I'm starting to believe WWE's probably also been pandering entirely too much to that audience (this is where I point out that Tyler Black, Kevin Steen, and Dos Caras Jr were/are the three major champions, along with the New Day). They chose Rollins over Reigns to be "The Guy". They chose Kevin Steen to be "The Guy." They chose ADR to be "The Guy". They had Cena take a secondary title and put on 3 to 5 star matches every RAW with NXT and Indy talent; and job clean to Kevin Owens and Alberto Del Rio (and get destroyed by Brock Lesnar in a squash match). They did everything that audience wanted from 2014 onward, and their ratings have been falling consistently downward. The smark-y fans keep holding on to their theories of "Reigns must be the true guy!" and "CenaWinsLOL" even though WWE has shown through action that's not actually the case.

Though Vince must really not like Cesaro, because even Cena and Austin have vocally been pushing for Cesaro to get a main event run, and he's still not getting one. Though I could imagine the last couple of weeks might have been because they knew he was getting surgery ala Orton. (Or they are trying to replicate Daniel Bryan 2.0 with Cesaro...which I doubt)

I was hoping against hope we'd have Ambrose make the save, Sheamus fail his cash-in, and have a face champion with a still-brother like ally basically on the run from the Authority.

Alas, it was not to be.

Still think this was the best idea. Have Roman and Ambrose basically fighting the Authority with the title would probably be the most compelling storyline. I'd switch it so that Ambrose had the title, and Reigns was basically the badass older brother / enforcer who would punch and spear the crap out of anyone who dared get in Ambrose's way. Reigns' best face character is the badass bodyguard who says little and just punches people over and over.

 

[MisterR]

Yep. WWE's struggling with having two very disparate sets of fans - the older Attitude Era fans and then their sub 25 year old fans. The older set of fans are the ones who tend to buy tickets to RAW and such - but they are waxing nostalgic for all forms of entertainment (see: Hollywood, reboot of every 90s TV show, etc) - and want their anti-heroes / anti-establishment heroes. So they're pre-disposed to liking the bad guys. Most smarks want Reigns to turn heel so they can cheer him (see: Cena).

I'm starting to believe WWE's probably also been pandering entirely too much to that audience (this is where I point out that Tyler Black, Kevin Steen, and Dos Caras Jr were/are the three major champions, along with the New Day). They chose Rollins over Reigns to be "The Guy". They chose Kevin Steen to be "The Guy." They chose ADR to be "The Guy". They had Cena take a secondary title and put on 3 to 5 star matches every RAW with NXT and Indy talent; and job clean to Kevin Owens and Alberto Del Rio (and get destroyed by Brock Lesnar in a squash match). They did everything that audience wanted from 2014 onward, and their ratings have been falling consistently downward. The smark-y fans keep holding on to their theories of "Reigns must be the true guy!" and "CenaWinsLOL" even though WWE has shown through action that's not actually the case.

Though Vince must really not like Cesaro, because even Cena and Austin have vocally been pushing for Cesaro to get a main event run, and he's still not getting one. Though I could imagine the last couple of weeks might have been because they knew he was getting surgery ala Orton. (Or they are trying to replicate Daniel Bryan 2.0 with Cesaro...which I doubt)



Still think this was the best idea. Have Roman and Ambrose basically fighting the Authority with the title would probably be the most compelling storyline. I'd switch it so that Ambrose had the title, and Reigns was basically the badass older brother / enforcer who would punch and spear the crap out of anyone who dared get in Ambrose's way. Reigns' best face character is the badass bodyguard who says little and just punches people over and over.

This is a good point. The more they try to play to the Smarks, the lower the ratings fall.