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NBA 2015- 16 Regular Season IOTI - NBA GAF Is Pretty Dead Considering This Fact

Jarate

Banned
I bet the guys you named crack the top 70 out 75 in either offense RPM or defensive RPM unlike Okafor.

So let's talk about RPM real fast

-It's another one of ESPN's patented "made up stats" that they brought into the year 2014
-No one outside of ESPN knows what the formula for this stat is
-Since I check a lot of advanced stat shit out, Im a little knowledgeable about it, and I dont think Ive ever seen anyone ever use that stat in my life outside of ESPN


This is the horse you came riding in on. Hell, you couldve used VORP in which Okafor is the 457th or many other advanced stats that shit all over Okafor. A problem I have with solely depending on stats is that they don't really show how "impactful" a player is. In the instance of VORP, Pau Gasol is ranked 14th in the NBA. Do teams have to worry about Pau Gasol anymore? This is in comparison to Demarcus Cousins who is the 32nd ranked in VORP and is literally one of the most dominant big men in the game right now. Teams will focus practically all of their game plan usually on trying to stop Cousins.

Okafor is that guy for the Sixers, which literally no other Rookie in the NBA has to deal with the load he carries. He's very inefficient with the ball, but his starting guards are Ish Smith and Nik Stauskus. Stauskas is one of the worst defenders ive ever seen in my life, Ish Smith is one of the least efficient shooters Ive ever seen. Not only that, their Half Court Offense is literally the worst one ive ever seen in my life and he's a primarily half court player.

Overall, anyone who has watched Okafor knows he's one of the best 3 best rookies in the league right now. (I'd put him above KP imo but that's a tough one) He's an inefficient player right now, but he's 19 shouldering the load of an NBA team who is literally one of the worst teams to ever exist with literally one of the worst backcourts to ever exist in the modern NBA.
 

Kickz

Member
Towns is the better shooter by far which makes him a better offensive player. Okafor is much better right now at being a ball dominant player imo. Towns can be efficient in that offense in Minnesota without nearly as much work or effort then Okafor. The Sixers best offensive player outside of Okafor is Ish Smith, a guy who shoots like absolute garbage.

Also, since we're talking about RPM (real plus minus) I'd thought i'd shed light into how kind of stupid the stat is

According to RPM
-Damian Lillard is the 11th best PG in the league
-Khlay Thompson is worse then Khris Middleton and Manu Ginobli
-Giannis Antetokounmpo is the 22nd best SF in the game aparently
-Kevin Garnett is the 9th ranked PF
-KAT is the 33rd best Center, Andrew Bogut is apparently the 11th best center
-Victor Oladipo, a guy who has a hard time starting is the 6th best SG

I think the main issues is that the stat overvalues defense a ludicrous amount.

Nah, Towns is unstoppable on offense. Okafor has nothing on him on either ends of the court..
 

Jarate

Banned
Nah, Towns is unstoppable on offense. Okafor has nothing on him on either ends of the court..

If he was unstoppable, he'd average a lot more then 17.7 ppg

I'd take KAT in a heartbeat over Okafor, I think his defense, shooting, and basketball IQ make him a lot more valuable then Okafor and he'll probably become one of the top big men in the NBA

But he also is helped a lot by having Rubio, and Wiggins on the team, players who are able to penetrate and allow space to open up for KAT. Rubio is one of the better passers in the league also

Okafor gets his buckets in the post, with ludicrous amounts of double teams on a team that has Ish Smith as their best offensive player on a team that does not know how to run half court offensive sets (The sixers will literally stop moving and stand at the opposite end of the basketball court when Okafor is getting doubled. i am not kidding, it literally happens all the time)
 

erlim

yes, that talented of a member
The way the warriors are playing this season I'd be willing to bet
ET2bnzp.jpg
would SWEEP
KD2l9cp.jpg
in a best of seven series by 30 to 40 points each game. I mean Lillard got beaten down by absolute Gods tonight. :(
 
Okafor put up some good stats, but I'm becoming much more comfortable with the Lakers taking D-Russ over him. I'm not too confident in how much his defense and rebounding will improve and the league is moving in a direction where a) defense at the 5 position is vital and b) all offense/no defense big men who can't really spread the floor (like Al Jefferson or Enes Kanter who can't spread the floor are so easily neutralized by the great teams and, depending on matchups, can be rendered virtually unplayable.
 

phanphare

Banned
Okafor put up some good stats, but I'm becoming much more comfortable with the Lakers taking D-Russ over him. I'm not too confident in how much his defense and rebounding will improve and the league is moving in a direction where a) defense at the 5 position is vital and b) all offense/no defense big men who can't really spread the floor (like Al Jefferson or Enes Kanter who can't spread the floor are so easily neutralized by the great teams and, depending on matchups, can be rendered virtually unplayable.

al's defense may be meh but his rebounding is underrated
 

Piecake

Member
Most advanced stats either hate or love Okafor.

There's a few things that the advanced stats don't comprehend that affect them so much

-He sucks at rebounding as a big man
-He sucks at defense, absolutely dreadful
-He hasn't passed well this season

Defense and Rebounding can get foxed once he gets into better shape. He still has a bit of baby fat on him and doesn't look like an adult.

But, inhibiting him is,

-He's on one of the worst teams ever
-the team he's on is probably the worst half court offense I've ever seen
-he doesn't like to pass because his teammates can't shoot. (The amount of wide open 3s misses this year is absurd)
-he hardly ever gets assists because his team sucks so much at half court sets.
-he's incredibly high iseage despite being a rookie.

Okafor has a few things going for him
-His true shooting is insane for a guy that doesn't shoot outside shots and has to create his own shot more then half the time
-He has by far the best offensive reptoire out of all the rookies in this draft.
-He's literally double teamed practically every game and still puts up those stats which all of the rookies get to afford not having to deal with.

http://nyloncalculus.com/2016/03/02/jahlil-okafor-and-defensive-improvement/

I would be far less optimistic that he can 'fix' his defense and rebounding issue.

As for offensive repertoire, I would have agreed with you if you said offensive post moves, but offensive repertoire? Towns absolutely crushes him.

Towns is a better passer, a better shooter, a better driver, a better ball-habdler, and a better FT shooter. Moreover, Towns has some impressive guard-like moves. He isn't just a spot up shooter becuase he e has a fadewawy and a step-back jumper.

What Okafor has over Towns is post moves because Towns only really has a left and right hook-shot. But does that really matter if that left and right hook shot work really really well? Towns actually is scoring at a higher precentage within 10 feet than Okafor.
 

Sandfox

Member
Okafor will improve, but I would expect his strengths to improve more than anything else(he's not going to become a different player), and his rebounding probably won't change too much.

Okafor put up some good stats, but I'm becoming much more comfortable with the Lakers taking D-Russ over him. I'm not too confident in how much his defense and rebounding will improve and the league is moving in a direction where a) defense at the 5 position is vital and b) all offense/no defense big men who can't really spread the floor (like Al Jefferson or Enes Kanter who can't spread the floor are so easily neutralized by the great teams and, depending on matchups, can be rendered virtually unplayable.

That's why I wanted Russell over Okafor. The Sixers can put a team around Okafor, but it will be hard and I'm not sure they will be able to get the right pieces.
 

Jarate

Banned
Okafor put up some good stats, but I'm becoming much more comfortable with the Lakers taking D-Russ over him. I'm not too confident in how much his defense and rebounding will improve and the league is moving in a direction where a) defense at the 5 position is vital and b) all offense/no defense big men who can't really spread the floor (like Al Jefferson or Enes Kanter who can't spread the floor are so easily neutralized by the great teams and, depending on matchups, can be rendered virtually unplayable.

I actually really like Russel too, just question his consistency at this stage.

and we'll have to see what happens with Oak. comparing him to Al Jefferson and Enes Kanter is fine, but none of them have the post move ability that Okafor has. Also Okafor is 20 with a lot of baby fat. This guy literally warrants a double team in practically every game. We will have too see if he gets used to it or not, but ive seen Okafor just absolutely dominate teams all by himself on the offensive end. Its really an issue with how in shape he is in. He has to get in much better shape next year.

but yeah, Al Jeff and Kanter have nowhere near the offensive ability of Okafor when they were his age. Its going to be tough to gauge him because I honestly think the best way to beat the Dubs is with a super long and athletic teams (Bucks are a prime example and gave them 2 really tough games) which okafor is not. But then again, if Okafor gets some shooters on his team and can easily pass out of double teams, then his offensive potential can be nasty


http://nyloncalculus.com/2016/03/02/jahlil-okafor-and-defensive-improvement/

I would be far less optimistic that he can 'fix' his defense and rebounding issue.

As for offensive repertoire, I would have agreed with you if you said offensive post moves, but offensive repertoire? Towns absolutely crushes him.

Towns is a better passer, a better shooter, a better driver, a better ball-habdler, and a better FT shooter. Moreover, Towns has some impressive guard-like moves. He isn't just a spot up shooter becuase he e has a fadewawy and a step-back jumper.

What Okafor has over Towns is post moves because Towns only really has a left and right hook-shot. But does that really matter if that left and right hook shot work really really well? Towns actually is scoring at a higher precentage within 10 feet than Okafor.

It's going to be interesting to see how Okafor develops his defense. It doesnt help him that his guards, Ish Smith and Nik Stauskas, are terrible defenders. Stauskas literally goves up so many dribble drives

But Okafor looks like he has a childs body out there. I wouldnt consider it poor conditioning, but the dude is 2 years out of high school, still has a lot of baby fat on him, and is a pretty huge guy. Its going to take a while for him to get in shape. Defense is something which is mostly based around effort and knowledge. Okafor doesnt have the effort yet cause his conditioning is terrible. The IQ part will possibly come. Also, his rebounding stats arent really technically as bad as it looks. Nerlens is a horrid rebounder too, when Okafor is in the game compared to Noel, the sixers are a little bit better at rebounding percentage. Okafor doesnt get the stats, but he's decent at blocking out. Its really only been post ASB that the rebounding has gotten super bad, but I can also attribute that with playing on one of the NBAs worst teams. Its definately starting to get to these guys.

One of these 2 guys have to go at the ASB, Okafor's injury really puts the team in a bad position. His value has decreased unfortunately
 

El Topo

Member
Not sure, but Spurs-Thunder is on in two hours. Friendly reminder should a German by chance enter this thread: The game is free on Spox.
 

Fjordson

Member
Looking forward to Warriors / Suns tonight. Devin Booker has been 🔥 lately. Baby Klay in the making.

Hey guys. Were there any exciting games this week? Like nail biters, buzzer beaters etc.
I'm looking to watch one.
Thunder vs T'Wolves went down to the last shot.
 

Kave_Man

come in my shame circle
Hard fought win, Iso Joe once again making us his bitch.

These are the type of games that you can see where Demarre being healthy can make a huge difference for us.
 

Eos

Member
The way the warriors are playing this season I'd be willing to bet
ET2bnzp.jpg
would SWEEP
KD2l9cp.jpg
in a best of seven series by 30 to 40 points each game. I mean Lillard got beaten down by absolute Gods tonight. :(

mj-laughing.gif


Fucking harrison barnes and andrew bogut
ZUsMKN5.gif
 
Good grind out win for the raps then Demar turning it over at the end really could have bit us in the ass hard. The win eased some fears, now they need to ice Chicago (please just put them away)
 

Messi

Member
The way the warriors are playing this season I'd be willing to bet
ET2bnzp.jpg
would SWEEP
KD2l9cp.jpg
in a best of seven series by 30 to 40 points each game. I mean Lillard got beaten down by absolute Gods tonight. :(

Where were you a few weeks back when Lillard beasted and destroyed the Warriors?

Is this a joke?
 
Spurs looking good.

Golden state better not lose 1st in the West

Until you look at their 3pt shooting percentage. Spurs are atrocious in that regard, really since last year. I'm not sure how they drop off in two years to being one of the best 3pt shooting teams to so poor but it happened. At least Kawhi has improved.
 
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