LyleLanley
Banned
For a gutless loser with no heart he's not bad. He is a fraud though.
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NBA Finals 2017 |OT| Same As It Ever Was
- Thread starter Jarate
- Start date
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For a gutless loser with no heart he's not bad. He is a fraud though.
TrumanBurbank
Member
What's the point of the Cavs having all these shooters around if Kyrie doesn't pass to them?
If next yr, Lebron fucking plays less minutes in the regular season, Kyrie learns to be a pass sometimes point guard and they try to have less ISO they can beat these Warriors for sure.
Please someone ask Kyrie to pass more! Steph does it no fucking problem.
If next yr, Lebron fucking plays less minutes in the regular season, Kyrie learns to be a pass sometimes point guard and they try to have less ISO they can beat these Warriors for sure.
Please someone ask Kyrie to pass more! Steph does it no fucking problem.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
It would be pretty nuts if they pull this off. There's not a lot of things you can do to negate your past, but going 16-0 and sweeping the very team that beat you last year in their building is as close as possible within the rules of the game.
Unless the playoff format is changed one day, your record can never be broken, only matched, and you can't beat a team any worse than 4-0.
Unless the playoff format is changed one day, your record can never be broken, only matched, and you can't beat a team any worse than 4-0.
davidwhangchoi
Member
LeBron the GM screwed his team up for years to come with those contracts
Terry Porter
Clyde Drexler
Jerome Kersey
Buck Williams
Kevin Duckworth
Cliff Robinson (pre-prime)
Good team, respectable Finals loser, far from a juggernaut. Had they somehow won, this would have been one of the worst championship rosters of the modern era.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Jesus H Christ, I've been away all night due to end-of-year school related activities and the thread exploded.
Guess we'll have to scrub through the pages tomorrow and clean up after the more severe obnoxious and/or off-topic trollage. Even got a couple complaint PMs. Stop flooding my Inbox.
...is this an attempt at a mod staff dig? What are you trying to say?
I expect a response in the next 10 hours.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
He could bail and go somewhere else and saddle them with his decisions.
LyleLanley
Banned
He won a ring and has a team that can only be beaten by arguably the greatest team of all time. I'd say he did a pretty good job with his roster. I'm not sure what they realistically could've done with this roster differently to give them a much better shot at winning.
davidwhangchoi
Member
dont forget danny ainge
Black Mamba
Member
He could have scored 100 points on 100% shooting with 50 assists and 30 rebounds.
Ever thought of that, Lyle? DID YOU!?
GOAT GM
LyleLanley
Banned
Fuck, that was the one scenario I left out of my calculations.
The league should make all playoff rounds best of 9 or 11. Would make the post season much better.
Get rid of 20 or so regular season games while they're at it too.
ryutaro's mama
Member
davidwhangchoi
Member
also dont forget Seattle Supersonic Mullet
RedAssedApe
Banned
damn...steph and kd moms were pretty hyped up after that win lol
https://twitter.com/NBCSWarriors/status/872662820697059329
https://twitter.com/NBCSWarriors/status/872662820697059329
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
Losing by 40 in game 6 against the OG Super Team > getting swept twice??? LOL
Btw, it took GOATbe 7 nba finals to reach 5 rings after going through the brutal Western conference. I wonder how many shots will 'Bron need to get to 4 after coming out of the wack ass Eastern conference. Hmmmm stay tuned
Can't deny his FG%, but as the only main man on his team full of defenders, he was still unstoppable and has carried his team up to a trip to the NBA Finals. And he won a season MVP against a prime Shaq.
Kobe was better in the long run, but in the first 7 or 8 years, AI was better.
ForsakenLotus
Member
LeBron is such a difficult player to judge. On the one hand, he's the most complete player probably in the history of the game and can abolsutely dominate scoring, assisting, and to a lesser degree defensively in his prime. On the other hand, so many times late it games he has either disappeared or gone pure passing point guard. Yet on the other hand, I've seen him kill it in he 4th and he's hit quite a few game winning shots or clutch shots.
Just look at tonight. Dude was incredible in general, but in the 4th was almost invisible. I'm really curious to see how people debate his legacy when he's done, because if you take clutch out of the debate (which is pretty important) I think LeBron is the best of all time. But MJ and Kobe were assassins, and so they are seen completely different (though LeBron is better than Kobe - and Kobe is my favorite players).
LeBron is such a fascinating athlete.
Just look at tonight. Dude was incredible in general, but in the 4th was almost invisible. I'm really curious to see how people debate his legacy when he's done, because if you take clutch out of the debate (which is pretty important) I think LeBron is the best of all time. But MJ and Kobe were assassins, and so they are seen completely different (though LeBron is better than Kobe - and Kobe is my favorite players).
LeBron is such a fascinating athlete.
Also interesting that Curry is +52 for the series and Durant is only +37.
It's close, but I think Durant's the safe bet. Media voters won't forget his clutch 3 from tonight. His efficiency is also insane (56/52/89 splits) and he's had some great defensive moments.
Black Mamba
Member
If your take away from this year's finals is that Lebron's legacy is being harmed, then your basketball opinion isn't worth much.
Sorry.
Lebron's 4th quarters have been lackluster by design. There is no single player that has ever existed that could do as much as Lebron is performing on offense and defense for 46 minutes and perform at a high level to close these games out. It's just not realistic.
The reality is the Warriors are a lot better than Cleveland. Full stop.
Sorry.
Lebron's 4th quarters have been lackluster by design. There is no single player that has ever existed that could do as much as Lebron is performing on offense and defense for 46 minutes and perform at a high level to close these games out. It's just not realistic.
The reality is the Warriors are a lot better than Cleveland. Full stop.
LyleLanley
Banned
LeBron is unbelievably good, it just so happens that he's going up against an inhuman basketball juggernaut.
panthapanda
Member
Well the +- numbers are a bit skewed in that Curry is guarding invisible people and KD is seeing LeBron more than Curry sees Kyrie.
Curry is definitely doing his thing tho.
ITT: The 2008 Celtics were the first NBA Super Team. Millennials are adorable.
Black Mamba
Member
pretty much.
I mean, what did people expect.
The Warriors should have won last season. Steph was obviously hurt. Green got suspended. Bogut got hurt. Iggy was laboring at the end of the series. And the Cavs essentially won game 7 by a shot.
So the Warriors upgraded Barnes with Kevin fucking Durant while the Cavs added Deron lol Williams.
And people expected anything less?
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Very.
Top 100.
davidwhangchoi
Member
and Korver too.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
I'm sorry I live in the modern era, bruh.
Remind me though, what 70's, 80's, 90's team signed a bunch of All-stars that used to compete against one another and made runs at the finals? Legit question.
Basic +/- isn't always entirely representative, but Steph is still ultimately probably more instrumental to the Warriors success than KD is. He just completely warps the floor. It feels like the inverse of Lakers Shaq. You can sorta play defense on guys like MJ, LeBron, Kobe, KD. You can't really do anything with Curry when he is pulling up from almost 30 feet out.
I don't think anyone is debating Lebron is not pure greatness. Its just one of the Finals story threads coming in was "GOAT?" And saying he needed to be legendary to beat this team. So people are splitting hairs, because they had a real chance to win this game and make it a series tonight. And the spotlight is on the 4th, and the last few minutes, and the decisions made.
But obviously iso Kyrie was the worst possession in crunch time. Just back breaking. But I'd also argue KD's 3 was a response to Korver's clank in the clutch. He just strolled down and said "this is how it's done". Hate watching an instant-classic game like tonights and seeing it come down to a Korver 3, and iso Kyrie. Go down with your absolute best, and don't leave nothing to chance.
I actually still feel like Lebron could give them a shot to win game 4, just out of pure anger/desire not to be swept. But I don't expect his cast to follow him as completely. Feel bad, because tonight you can sense real vibes in the air of how this series could have been competitive.
But Slim Reaper made sure that series isn't turning that way. Just an overwhelming talent. I think Curry's +/- lead is just because he jumps in on those Warrior onslaught runs, and gets his most points in that mode. But Durant's 4th quarter tonight are much more important points.
Also his D's been just short of incredible, and his transition dunks game 1 kickstarted how this series would go, was toughest thing for the Cavs to handle.
But obviously iso Kyrie was the worst possession in crunch time. Just back breaking. But I'd also argue KD's 3 was a response to Korver's clank in the clutch. He just strolled down and said "this is how it's done". Hate watching an instant-classic game like tonights and seeing it come down to a Korver 3, and iso Kyrie. Go down with your absolute best, and don't leave nothing to chance.
I actually still feel like Lebron could give them a shot to win game 4, just out of pure anger/desire not to be swept. But I don't expect his cast to follow him as completely. Feel bad, because tonight you can sense real vibes in the air of how this series could have been competitive.
But Slim Reaper made sure that series isn't turning that way. Just an overwhelming talent. I think Curry's +/- lead is just because he jumps in on those Warrior onslaught runs, and gets his most points in that mode. But Durant's 4th quarter tonight are much more important points.
Also his D's been just short of incredible, and his transition dunks game 1 kickstarted how this series would go, was toughest thing for the Cavs to handle.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
He's no Lebron, alright:
because Kobe doesn't get swept in the finals.
Black Mamba
Member
Boston didn't sign any all-stars. They drafted Pierce, Rondo, Perkins, Powe, and traded for Allen and KG.
Honestly, the 2004 Lakers were the first "super team" to sign all-stars in Malone and Payton to add to established all-stars in Kobe and Shaq. Then it's the Miami Heatles that came next.
I can't speak for every 4th Lebrons had, but is it possible the dude is just tired? How much rest does he get? How much does he sit on the bench? How much points does he score, who does he defend, etc. Dude was probably almost invisible in the 4th because he's gassed. Did MJ play continuously like Lebron? Did Kobe? How much more depth did those teams have comepared to Lebrons? These are honest questions.
The thing is MJ and Kobe's brand of basketball is scoring and shooting. Probably dictated by position, but that's their brand of basketball nonetheless. LeBron just simply plays a different brand of basketball, just like all other greats have a different brand of basketball. That does not really take away their greatness if they don't play like MJ. The problem is the standard of comparison has always been MJ when guys like Magic, Bird, Kareem and others get lost in the conversation for being part of the greatest ever.
LeBron may have struggled in the 4th, but he was the one keeping the Cavs within distance for the majority of the game against the Warriors when everyone else can't even buy a basket or play decent defense. Had the Cavs keep being competitive when he's on the bench, we'd probably see a better performance out of him in the 4th.
still hurtsBlack Mamba
Member
It's not even solely the depth. Lebron can't take plays off on defense, unlike last year which he did guarding Barnes at times.
Or does in every other game he plays in (this is not a criticism. EVERY PLAYER DOES).
KD and others get to get some run guarding Shumpert or JR. Even Love (who while an excellent player, won't wear you out). Bron is on KD almost all the time and if he's not, he's switched onto Klay, or Steph, or Green. All wear you out.
Anyone who has ever played ball against a clearly superior team but was the best player on the team and had to guard the best on the other side knows.
The Cavs were -12 tonight in the TWO MINUTES Lebron didn't play. Think about that.
Alter_Fridge
Member
Durant has Finals MVP on lock
panthapanda
Member
I wonder what LeBron was thinking when he was lobbying for his "guys" to get paid. I suppose you can't really consider that someone like KD would join a team like GS but it's kinda his fault that the Cavs can't improve through FA.
The front office is going to have to work a lot of magic. I can't remember how many trade exceptions they have.
The front office is going to have to work a lot of magic. I can't remember how many trade exceptions they have.
Cracklox
Member
This logical fallacy has no place in this thread!
More or less my thoughts exactly on that whole debate. Except the Kobe as your favorite player part. Ewww..
Black Mamba
Member
It's not his fault.
The Warriors only got a chance to sign KD because.
1. Curry is underpaid MASSIVELY due to fluke luck on GS's part
2. The cap spike which no one really could have anticipated coming years ago.
#2 will probably never happen again. It's all luck. Even if guys like Thompson got paid less, Lebron couldn't get other players in there.
going through the thread again just wanted to pinpoint this post from when it was 108-107
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=239581279&postcount=7804
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Pretty sure he's tired because the Cavs have no way to maintain momentum once Lebron gets on the bench, so he's forced to play 40+ mins to make sure the Cavs don't blow leads and get into a run that they might not be able to get out of. It's not like Miami Heat 4ths where the Heat had an identity issues as to whether DWade would take the clutch shots or of Lebron would, and even when Lebron does, he choked.
Can't speak about the other stuff (MJ playing), but I doubt he had to play 40+ consistently for the Bulls given the quality of the team.
LyleLanley
Banned
They were going to be capped out regardless, they were better off signing their guys and making Gilbert pay more in tax instead of just letting them walk.
The only key guys the 2008 Celtics signed were James Posey and Eddie House. They traded for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen. They drafted Paul Pierce.
Other super teams that built their super teams through a combination of trades, free agent signings, and draft picks (like the 2008 Celtics) include the 80's Celtics, 80's Lakers, 90's Bulls, 2000's Lakers, and 2010's Heat and Warriors. So, basically every super team since the merger save for the Pop-Duncan Spurs, who did the manly thing and tanked for the rights to draft the greatest power forward in NBA history.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
signed / traded, whatever, Celtics started this shit show in the modern era.
04 wasn't no super team btw. Malone retired after that season and Peyton was a shell of himself and retired a few years later. Lakers made the finals on the back of Shaq + GOATbe, as per usual. Super Team my ass.
Cracklox
Member
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