the_darkness
Banned
If that was the best Cleveland could get, you can bet your ass Boston would be offering up IT and a pick, which would get it done if they want to deal him now.
But they're going to wait until next season anyway.
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NBA Offseason 2017 |OT| Only Big Ballers Allowed *please pay $495 to be a Big Baller
- Thread starter Jarate
- Start date
But they're going to wait until next season anyway.
Yeah
Cleveland trying to trade Kyrie for another PG would be a mistake since you never get fair value when trading players of the same position.
If Pheonix doesn't want to do a Bledsoe for Love deal. Cleveland could still get either CJ McCollum or Reggie Jackson as the primary return in a trade for Love. Something like
Portland get Love, Shump and Frye
Cleveland get CJ, Leonard and their choice of Harkless/Aminu/Nicholson
Or
Detroit get Love
Cleveland get Reggie Jackson, Stanley Johnson and a future lottery pick
Or
Detroit get Love + Frye
Cleveland get Jackson and Harris
Most teams have a Kevin Love type scoring PF that you could take back in any Kyrie trade and not needing a PG makes finding the best value much easier.
If Pheonix doesn't want to do a Bledsoe for Love deal. Cleveland could still get either CJ McCollum or Reggie Jackson as the primary return in a trade for Love. Something like
Portland get Love, Shump and Frye
Cleveland get CJ, Leonard and their choice of Harkless/Aminu/Nicholson
Or
Detroit get Love
Cleveland get Reggie Jackson, Stanley Johnson and a future lottery pick
Or
Detroit get Love + Frye
Cleveland get Jackson and Harris
Most teams have a Kevin Love type scoring PF that you could take back in any Kyrie trade and not needing a PG makes finding the best value much easier.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
... okay then so who are they playing at PG next season?
Rose lol.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Greg Monroe
Randolph Freelander
Member
He's going to go Westbrook on the league, too.
They need a point guard if they trade Kyrie. It's not like they are in a rebuilding situation and can afford to just not have a quality point guard this year. They are still a contender. Derrick Rose is not the answer. He's a decent option as a backup to replace Derron Williams.
The Cavs should be looking at a point guard and one or two additional players to try and get fair value. When a team trades a star they rarely ever get a star player in return. The best case scenario is getting two or three guys that are all quality players and/or draft picks to improve the team.
If they wait until the trade deadline they could do a trade with Milwaukee for Brogdon, Middleton, Snell and 1 protected first. The Cavs could throw in Shumpert and/or Osman to make the money work. Who says no?
Milwaukee laughs at Cleveland and then hangs up. No way Irving is worth that to them.
My point is this. To get the best value for Irving Cleveland need to deal Love as well.
Assuming this is happening and Lebron is leaving you do 1 or 2 consectiutive trades involving a total of 3 or 4 teams. You trade love for a PG, a wing and a pick/picks while you trade Irving for a Big, a wing and a pick/picks
In this sitiation you Swap 2 stars + roster chaff for 4 players (2 of which have unproven/lesser star potential) you get younger/better wing depth and potentially 2 or more future firsts.
Cleveland has everything they need to be contenders (Lebron + 5 solid prime age starters) plus a few picks in case they need to rebuild.
Thats the type of deal/deals Cleveland need to make. Then just cruise through the East and hope GSW SAS HOU and OKC beat the crap out of each other enough that you can beat GSW.
No, no they don't.
Milwaukee's most important ball handlers going forward are Giannis, Parker and Brogdon. Sure they need a fast PG who can penetrate and shoot 3s, but not at any cost. Why give up all that for 1 player when Middleton or Snell could get you a Paddy Mills level PG straight up.
Sure Mills (or equivalent) isnt Irving, but he does many of the same things, and is going to be on a significantly cheaper contract. Overextending for Kyrie when he would destroy their payroll is stupid since Milwaukee likely wont be using the Taxpayer MLE due to budget constraints.
I mean there is always a chance they would decline it, but there's no reality I'm which Milwaukee would laugh at an offer to acquire an all star caliber point guard for 3 role players and one protected pick. As much as I like Brogdon, he's a role player, and Irving would be a HUGE upgrade over him. And while guys like Shumpert and Osman are definitely worse than Middleton and Snell, they are still okay players that can be in the Bucks rotation.
Kyrie would be a great complement to Giannis. For one, He can shoot so he can play of the ball when Giannis has it. Milwaukee's biggest weakness is their halfcourt offense. Giannis and Parker are both great transition players. Irving is one of the best players in the league at getting buckets in the half court.
Not sure why you have to include Love and Irving in the same offer? In my supposed offer you got 3 players and a protected first for Irving. If the Cavs don't like Love, they could trade him in a separate deal. If they got a player and a pick or two they would still be getting the same package you were referring to (4 players and a couple picks).
I'm not sure why they would trade Love too though? If they lose Irving they would be losing a lot of offensive firepower. I would want to keep Love and hope that Love getting a larger offensive role would improve his production and fill some of that offensive load that Kyrie had.
Martylepiaf
Member
Just realized Kyrie is only 9 month older than Brogdon
On paper, yes.
Basically ditched Ian Clark, Matt Barnes and James Michael McAdoo and turned them into Nick Young, Omri Casspi and Jordan Bell.
Starphoenix
Member
Apparently the Heat have not actually maDE an offer for Kyrie. Really curious what the Spurs offered though.
I like Ian Clark better than those pick ups tbh
Whaat. Total opposite for me. Ian Clark was practically unplayable in the playoffs. Very telling that a rookie who wouldn't shoot in Pat McCaw got minutes over him. When shooting off the bench is supposedly Clark's main strength.
Jordan Bell could still be a bust and maybe Swaggy is such a knucklehead that he ruins the locker room, but I think they all bring more value on the court than Ian.
I'm particularly excited about Bell. If Kerr is willing to play him at center that is.
Wait, so the spurs did throw an offer for Kyrie?
Cant really see us offering anything decent that couldn't be easily beaten by other teams unless the cavs really like LMA & Danny Green. lol
DerangedHermit
Member
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Not just that, McCaw has a year under his belt as well which likely means he will be more useful.
The most important one is Curry & KD will likely play better than they did last year due to improved chemistry, which is terrible for the entire league.
AgentChris
Member
Hopefully Dolan does not get involved- I can see him trading Hernangomez, Frank and an unprotected 1st.
They aren't getting Kyrie for any deal that doesnt include Frank.
They did. They are just feeding misinformation to one of their goober local reporters to try to control public messaging. Dragic and Winslow were explicitly mentioned in the Woj piece; teams don't want their players to know they are being dangled in the event that the trade proposal falls through.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
That's the only way I actually see Kyrie get traded.
Cavs are looking for a Melo style overpay and the Knicks are the only franchise dumb enough to make the same mistake again.
Randolph Freelander
Member
The Nets and Kings would like a word with you.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Nets and Kings had great offseasons though. They are doing all the things they should be doing. They seem to be learning.
Meanwhile the Knicks had a trash fire of an offseason yet again.
Randolph Freelander
Member
They got rid of Jackson's part time basketball oversight and the mandatory triangle offense.
That's progress, too!
Peter Ian Staker
Member
And then proceeded to remind us they are still the Knicks when Griffin refused to take the GM job because Dolan wasn't willing to let him touch his yes-men in the FO.
The man that spent 4 years under Dan Gilbert thought Dolan was too much for him.
And let's not even talk about the THJ signing.
Caddywompus
Member
What do you think LAC offered for Irving? Did they dangle DeAndre?
Would have to be something like DeAndre, Beverley, and picks
Randolph Freelander
Member
Overheard in one Los Angeles area dining room
"Dad, you're not trading me to Cleveland, are you?"
"Dad, you're not trading me to Cleveland, are you?"
I think DeAndre and Beverly would be enough. To me anyways, maybe the actual market value for Kyrie is inflated. Kyrie is an amazing talent but I don't think he's going to elevate a franchise in a significant way.
AgentChris
Member
Knicks sign Ramon Sessions to one year deal at $2.3M.
Randolph Freelander
Member
And the home crowd chants "Razor, Razor."
Ninja Scooter
Member
RedAssedApe
Banned
Ninja Scooter
Member
LeBron don't give a fuck
I think he would he could give Goldenstate fits, with his special ability of getting his defenders fouled out.
GM LeBron gotta be interested
On Cleveland needing to trade Kevin Love.
There are 3 types of trades in the NBA.
1. Consolidation trades where you trade multiple pieces for less better singular pieces
2. Depth building trades: where you trade one great piece for multiple lesser pieces to help you fill out your roster
3. Lateral trades: where you trade players of equal value at different positions.
Kyrie is an elite PG and likely a top 20 player. You cant consolidate him into a better piece at the same position because there is only Westbrook, Harden, Curry and Wall that deserve consideration as possibly being betted PGs then Kyrie. If you have to trade him and aren't blowing it up then it makes more sense to look for a latteral trade (IE trade for an equivalent player at another position)
Currently big men in the NBA have low trade value so it makes sense to trade Kyrie for a big as the percieved difference between big man and guard value will further boost Kyrie's trade value and allow Cleveland to recieve suplimental assets.
Trading Kyrie for a big makes Kevin Love redundant. So Cleveland would have to trade Love or risk an unbalanced roster. Luckily for Cleveland Love has a high amount of trade value due to the Cavaliers championship 2 years ago. It also benefits Cleveland to split Love's value into multiple parts over Irving because NBA talent tends to exist on an exponential curve and thus trading Love for two or more middling players hurts less then trading Kyrie for 2 or more middling players.
friskykillface
Banned
Kyrie for Bradley, Drummond , other people, picks
LeBron gets to destroy Kyrie 4 times a season
Bradley is the Steph stopper
Picks when the pistons are trash
LeBron gets to destroy Kyrie 4 times a season
Bradley is the Steph stopper
Picks when the pistons are trash
Randolph Freelander
Member
"YOU CAN HAVE TRISTAN'S CHECK"
I don't think Pistons can trade Bradley this soon yeah?
Not to mention Pistons plan seem to be to make Bradley their #1 guy and max him next summer. Stan Van Gundy had been coveting Bradley for years.