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[Ninja Scooter]

But if Kobe ends up signing somewhere else, wouldn't this master plan sink like the 2004 Orlando Magic?

uhhh, you don't think they pretty much have an agreement with Kobe? you think Dr. Buss and Mitch Kupchak are just playing this by ear? Roofles McDoofles.

 

[Cloudy]

LA Times with the full scoop

Doomsday for Lakers: Jackson Exits; Kobe Free; O'Neal Wants Out

By Tim Brown, Times Staff Writer

Phil Jackson is out as coach.

Kobe Bryant is a free agent.







Shaquille O'Neal doesn't want to play for the Lakers anymore.

The doomsday scenario became real Friday, three days after the Lakers were eliminated by the Detroit Pistons in the NBA Finals.

Jackson, who led the Lakers to three titles in five seasons, and the franchise officially parted way after he had an afternoon meeting with team owner Jerry Buss.

Bryant, as expected, opted out of his contract and is -- at least for the moment -- a free agent. He can still re-sign with the Lakers, who can offer him more money than any other NBA team. But for now, the mercurial guard is the property of no one.

And most unexpectedly, O'Neal, who is still under contract for two more years, said he no longer wants to be part of the team.

Through his agent, Perry Rogers, O'Neal has demanded the Lakers trade him, a request team management sources say will be granted, if possible.

O'Neal, in a telephone interview, said he had lost faith in the franchise and its general manager, Mitch Kupchak.

The process of trading O'Neal, of undoing the summer of 1996, when O'Neal and Bryant were brought in by then-General Manager Jerry West and eventually won three NBA championships together, will start immediately, and Kupchak undoubtedly will be overrun with offers.

"The direction they're going in, if they're going to continue to go in the same direction, I don't want to be a part of this," O'Neal said.

"This team, it ain't about me. It ain't about Phil. It's supposed to be about team."

Kupchak, who said Thursday he would consider trading O'Neal if that is what he wished, had no comment Friday.

O'Neal, one of the great players in NBA history and the Finals MVP in each of the recent Laker three-peat seasons, has two seasons remaining on his Laker contract, for $27.7 million next season and $30.6 million

the season after. He can opt out of the final year of the contract and become an unrestricted free agent, but is in a bigger hurry to go.

"I wanted to let you guys know, this is something I've been thinking about for a long time," he said. "When I was brought here by Jerry West, there was a team concept. ... It was something I wanted to be a part of. Now no one cares. I told you I'm all about winning championships. Now the organization is different. It seems right now they're trying to pit one person against another."

"Therefore," he said, "I don't want to be a part of that."

By the rules of the NBA collective bargaining agreement, the Lakers would have to take back about as much salary as they trade away, meaning a deal involving O'Neal would be complex and probably involve many players.

Laker management suspects O'Neal is less upset about the direction of the team than the status of his contract extension, negotiations for which weakened months ago. The sides were $9 million apart over the two-year extension, and O'Neal soon will be eligible for a third year, which will put them farther apart.

O'Neal, 32, insisted his disappointment lay in the sway of the organization. Bryant, as an unrestricted free agent, has been the team's focus, the perception growing that it has been ordered by Buss.

Kupchak said Thursday he would not undertake a sign-and-trade with Bryant under any circumstances. (And with Bryant becoming a free agent Friday, that scenario is no longer possible). But, Kupchak said, if O'Neal were to demand a trade he would consider it, allowing, "That would not be a good day in this club's history."

By late in the season, sources close to Buss were suggesting the owner would order Kupchak to trade O'Neal anyway, which might have led to the slowing in negotiations. While there is no debating O'Neal's on-court value, his contract takes up nearly three-quarters of the team's salary cap, which had made difficult Kupchak's job of building around O'Neal.

None of which has rested well with O'Neal, very proud and unhappy about a number of issues within the Lakers.

"So, I want you guys to write that if any GM out there wants a hard-working big man who wants to win championships, call Mitch Kupchak, because he'll entertain offers," O'Neal said. "My last six, seven years, I want to be on a great team.

"Right now, upstairs in the Laker offices, they've lost the team concept. They're trying to pit people against each other. ... So, obviously, we don't have the same thought process anymore. That's fine.

I know it's a business. I wanted to let you know I think the fans deserve better."

Jackson led the Lakers to the NBA Finals four times and has nine championships, tying him for first all-time with Red Auerbach. His career record is 832-316 and his .725 winning percentage ranks first all-time in the NBA.

"In my opinion Phil is the best coach in the history of the NBA and he did a phenomenal job for us these past five years, for which I am grateful," Buss said in a statement released by the team.

Said Jackson: "Three rings and a fourth opportunity makes this a bittersweet ending, but it's time to pause and reflect. I'm appreciative of all the Lakers, the organization, the fans and Dr. Buss."

 

[DMczaf]

uhhh, you don't think they pretty much have an agreement with Kobe? you think Dr. Buss and Mitch Kupchak are just playing this by ear? Roofles McDoofles.

Its Mitch Kupchak. Of course he's playing it by ear.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Its Mitch Kupchak. Of course he's playing it by ear.

you think Mitch Kupchak is calling the shots on all this?

"Oh you naive little boy..."

 

[DMczaf]

Come on, post a pic of Buss recently

 

[Miguel]

lol @ Bish


Mig...brent barry.

That's right! We can sign him to the MLE.

1. Trade TMac/Howard for Francis/Mobley/Cato
2. Sign McDyess to the veteran's minimum (1 mill)
3. Sign Brent Barry for the Mid Level Exception (4mil-ish)


C - Yao/Howard
PF - Taylor/McDyess
SF - TMac/Nachbar/Padgett
SG - Jackson/Piatkowski
PG - Barry/Wilks/Jackson

Also, we still have the 8 mil trade exception, but it looks less and less like we'll end up using it.

We still have Padgett/Griffin/Piatkowski we could deal though. Any teams going to firesale this summer? Who do the Bulls have? Jackson for Heinrich! Pike for a pair of Jordan XVII?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Come on, post a pic of Buss recently

you mean like THIS:

Do not try to diss the Doctor of Poon-ology.

 

[Matrix]

Mig,we can end up losing Taylor,Pike or Griffin in the expansion draft.

 

[Willco]

The Lakers are crumbling. It's kind of like watching the Death Star explode. Ben Wallace is Chewbacca.

 

[DMczaf]

you mean like THIS:

Do not try to diss the Doctor of Poon-ology.

Will anyone tell Buss that his date is one of his many illegitimate daughters from the 70s?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

if push comes to shove, and we HAVE to trade Shaq, i like this deal:

Shaq and Devean Gump to Indiana for J.Oneal, Austin Croshere, Scot Pollard and Al Harrington.

Sign Keon Clark or Erik Dampier with the MLE. Sign a veteran backup guard with the vets minimum (maybe even bring back DFish).

Bring back Payton (thats right, i said it.)

Draft a point guard in the first round (Sasha Vujacic?)

potential lineup:

Keon Clark/Pollard
JOneal/Cook
Harrington/Walton/Croshere
Kobe/Rush
Payton/Fish/rookie

and of course, in the biggest move of them all, bring back...THE ONE...

"Alright ladies, so how many fucking championships do you want to win?"

 

[Cloudy]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=1824721

What did Kobe ever do to this Tom Friend shithead?

 

[EekTheKat]

I think Indy said Jermaine O'neal is their franchise player. Everyone else (including artest) is expendable though.

 

[Matrix]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=1824721

What did Kobe ever do to this Tom Friend shithead?

Ughhh I dont like the sound of Shaq going back to Orlando to team up with Tmac

Also everything he wrote about Kobe is true

 

[Cloudy]

Vecsey on Best Damn Show: Kobe New York

Says from his sources, Kobe may take the 5 mill minimum with NY. Says, Nike would tear up old contract if Kobe is acquitted and Kobe comes to the knicks, they will then give double that original $45 mil contract. Says the league would investigate for collusion if sucha a scenario would occur, but says it is very possible that all can come out unscathed.

What is Vecsey smoking? LOL

 

[rc213]

Watch Shaq go into next season like 100 pounds lighter next year. LOL

 

[Archaix]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=1824721

What did Kobe ever do to this Tom Friend shithead?

So...you're saying Kobe isn't a selfish narcicist who needs the spotlight and doesn't do a damned thing to try and make his teamates better who is on trial for rape and may never play another game of basketball if convicted? Not to mention that he plays at a position which has competition for his number 1 spot(It's pretty easy to argue that Kobe isn't the best 2 in the league. Let's see somebody try and say that Shaq isn't far and away the most dominant center).

Which of those things isn't true, exactly?

You're working on the assumption that Kobe is coming back to LA with the condition of Shaq being gone, and he's not selfish? He's not out for personal gain over all else?

 

[Miguel]

Watch Shaq go into next season like 100 pounds lighter next year. LOL

:lol

He becomes 1995 Shaq. And Hakeem makes his triumphant return!

 

[Blackace]

if push comes to shove, and we HAVE to trade Shaq, i like this deal:

Shaq and Devean Gump to Indiana for J.Oneal, Austin Croshere, Scot Pollard and Al Harrington.

Sign Keon Clark or Erik Dampier with the MLE. Sign a veteran backup guard with the vets minimum (maybe even bring back DFish).

Bring back Payton (thats right, i said it.)

Draft a point guard in the first round (Sasha Vujacic?)

potential lineup:

Keon Clark/Pollard
JOneal/Cook
Harrington/Walton/Croshere
Kobe/Rush
Payton/Fish/rookie

and of course, in the biggest move of them all, bring back...THE ONE...

"Alright ladies, so how many fucking championships do you want to win?"

The Pacers want to trade Oneal for Oneal? hahahahahah I don't think Larry is going to pull the trigger on that one... If he is going to move Oneal I could see him looking at Tmac..

 

[Ninja Scooter]

So...you're saying Kobe isn't a selfish narcicist who needs the spotlight and doesn't do a damned thing to try and make his teamates better who is on trial for rape and may never play another game of basketball if convicted? Not to mention that he plays at a position which has competition for his number 1 spot(It's pretty easy to argue that Kobe isn't the best 2 in the league. Let's see somebody try and say that Shaq isn't far and away the most dominant center).

Which of those things isn't true, exactly?

You're working on the assumption that Kobe is coming back to LA with the condition of Shaq being gone, and he's not selfish? He's not out for personal gain over all else?

Kobe's not demanding that Shaq be traded. Shaq is demanding to be traded because they are sending off his running mate (Phil) and he senses the balance of power shifting. Not to mention this guy makes such a big deal about "OMG KOBE CALLED SHAQ FAT". Who gives a shit. Shaq IS fat. He IS lazy and out of shape. He doesn't bring it every single game. Not to mention all the snipes Shaq and Phil took at Kobe through the media all these years, he was justified in lashing out ONE friggin time.

You want to talk about what Shaq is? Here is a guy who:

-refused to have surgery because "he got hurt on company time, so he's gonna heal on company time"...what a team player

-has come into the season unconditioned and out of shape despite being the highest paid player in the league.

-refuses to address his horrible free throw shooting

-Disrespectfully yells at Jerry Buss, the team owner, "PAY ME!" during a preseason game last year. The same guy who has paid Shaq $27 million the last 5 years to give half an effort. Thats not selfish?

-Unneccesarly bashes team GM Mitch Kupchak, taking credit for all the "good moves" the team has made, and blaming Mitch for everything that goes bad.

 

[Cloudy]

So...you're saying Kobe isn't a selfish narcicist who needs the spotlight and doesn't do a damned thing to try and make his teamates better who is on trial for rape and may never play another game of basketball if convicted? Not to mention that he plays at a position which has competition for his number 1 spot(It's pretty easy to argue that Kobe isn't the best 2 in the league. Let's see somebody try and say that Shaq isn't far and away the most dominant center).

Which of those things isn't true, exactly?

You're working on the assumption that Kobe is coming back to LA with the condition of Shaq being gone, and he's not selfish? He's not out for personal gain over all else?

Eh, go read every article Friend has written about Kobe and you'll see where I'm coming from. And it's funny how all you folks who only watch the playoffs say Kobe does nothing to make his teammates better (I wonder how anyone can say that even watching just the playoffs).

It's pretty easy to argue that Kobe isn't the best 2 in the league

Actually, it's not. Watch this game if you don't believe me

http://www.cs.wayne.edu/~cs3852/ORLvsLAL-03-16/

Let's see somebody try and say that Shaq isn't far and away the most dominant center

That doesn't make him "better" than Tim Duncan (yah, he's not a true center but he plays it a lot)

You're working on the assumption that Kobe is coming back to LA with the condition of Shaq being gone, and he's not selfish? He's not out for personal gain over all else?

Actually, I'm working on the assumption that Kobe only re-signs if Shaq is not "extended" (he still has 2 years to go on this deal) for the insane amount he wants while leaving nothing on the cap for a supporting cast. Do you know Shaq is taking over half the payroll BY HIMSELF?!?!? And dude wants 10 mil MORE per year!! Look what happened to them the last 2 years with Kobe, Shaq and garbage. That's not selfish, it's fucking smart lol

 

[Bat]

Shaq and Kobe are both selfish cry babies. Kobe needs to realize that Shaq did most of the work during their championship run and Shaq needs to realize that he is not the player he used to be and is not worth anywhere near $30 million a year, especially not in 5 years.

O'Neal (Jermaine) for TMac? Hahaha...no way. No one is going to trade big for small. Currently there is talk for TMac to be traded for a package centered around Artest.

Really the Lakers have no good options. If they want to keep Shaq they are looking at not having any cap room or tradeable assets (since there is no way Kobe is going to accept a sign and trade to team that would have what the Lakers want) for the next five years. Their best bet is to get another big man for Shaq, but that won't be easy. If Bird really wants to win now, he might consider Jermaine O'Neal and cap fodder (Croshere) and if that is offered, the Lakers must accept.

EDIT- and Shaq's salary is not even half the cap...its 3/4 of it.

 

[Blackace]

Kobe is one of best 2s in the league....but one video doesn't prove him to be the best... all of the other great 2s have nice videos as well...


We will see once he has his own team to control... without the shadow of Shaq to protect him (or is it the other way around?)

 

[Cloudy]

Kobe is one of best 2s in the league....but one video doesn't prove him to be the best... all of the other great 2s have nice videos as well...

Why not watch the game and see? Dude shuts down Tmac with one fucking arm while carrying the Lakers to victory (35 in the 2nd half and OT while holding Tmac to 5)

EDIT- and Shaq's salary is not even half the cap...its 3/4 of it.

Holy crap, really?!?! Then how can anyone blame Kobe for not wanting to be stuck on a shit team?

 

[Blackace]

Shaq and Kobe are both selfish cry babies. Kobe needs to realize that Shaq did most of the work during their championship run and Shaq needs to realize that he is not the player he used to be and is not worth anywhere near $30 million a year, especially not in 5 years.

O'Neal (Jermaine) for TMac? Hahaha...no way. No one is going to trade big for small. Currently there is talk for TMac to be traded for a package centered around Artest.

Really the Lakers have no good options. If they want to keep Shaq they are looking at not having any cap room or tradeable assets (since there is no way Kobe is going to accept a sign and trade to team that would have what the Lakers want) for the next five years. Their best bet is to get another big man for Shaq, but that won't be easy. If Bird really wants to win now, he might consider Jermaine O'Neal and cap fodder (Croshere) and if that is offered, the Lakers must accept.

EDIT- and Shaq's salary is not even half the cap...its 3/4 of it.

Bird can win with the Oneal he has now..... I don't think it would be wise to trade a big man with still a lot of upside...for one that is coming to the end of his career....

 

[Cloudy]

Bird can win with the Oneal he has now..... I don't think it would be wise to trade a big man with still a lot of upside...for one that is coming to the end of his career....

Yup. I mean, they were one Artest meltdown from a game 7 in the ECF. No way they make this deal. Orlando or Dallas are the only ones that even seem possible. But does LA want to see an angry Shaq 4 times a year and in the playoffs? LOL!!!

 

[Blackace]

Why not watch the game and see? Dude shuts down Tmac with one fucking arm while carrying the Lakers to victory (35 in the 2nd half and OT while holding Tmac to 5)

Saw the game when it happened.... Also saw him get owned by Prince in this last series....

 

[Archaix]

Why not watch the game and see? Dude shuts down Tmac with one fucking arm while carrying the Lakers to victory (35 in the 2nd half and OT while holding Tmac to 5)

It's one game. If we go down that path, then Tayshawn Prince is clearly the best 2 in the league. Hell, he shut down and outscored Kobe in the NBA finals.

 

[Bat]

I agree 100%. If I was him no way i'd pull off that trade. But I think Shaq is overrated in some NBA circles so it's a possibility. I personally can't see how Duncan is not the most dominant player in the league at this point, especially if you consider how he plays on both ends. Shaq has those games (like game 4) where you are see his old self, but at this point he takes every other game off, which people never mention.

 

[Cloudy]

Saw the game when it happened.... Also saw him get owned by Prince in this last series....

LOL @ how Prince keeps getting this new Kobestopper rep. Did anyone watch game 2 where the Wallace boys weren't helping on Kobe? Fine, let's say Tay shut Kobe down. He did the same thing to Tmac in the 2nd round last year...

 

[Blackace]

I agree 100%. If I was him no way i'd pull off that trade. But I think Shaq is overrated in some NBA circles so it's a possibility. I personally can't see how Duncan is not the most dominant player in the league at this point, especially if you consider how he plays on both ends. Shaq has those games (like game 4) where you are see his old self, but at this point he takes every other game off, which people never mention.

Well I see the team trading him out East. but not to the Pacers... If they want to get a big in return...I don't know who they will turn to... Maybe try to get Sheed...hahahah

 

[Blackace]

LOL @ how Prince keeps getting this new Kobestopper rep. Did anyone watch game 2 where the Wallace boys weren't helping on Kobe? Fine, let's say Tay shut Kobe down. He did the same thing to Tmac in the 2nd round last year...

But I am not basing my thoughts of the best 2 on one game...or one match up... you are.. so under the same rules Prince is the best!!!

 

[Archaix]

Well I see the team trading him out East. but not to the Pacers... If they want to get a big in return...I don't know who they will turn to... Maybe try to get Sheed...hahahah

Their plan is clearly to trade Shaq for Prince, Wallace, Wallace, and Hamilton.

You see, the Lakers this year didn't really want to win the championship. They just wanted to see who had the best team so that they could trade for it.

You know, this can't be too far from situations that some lakers fans actually expect

 

[Cloudy]

Hell, he shut down and outscored Kobe in the NBA finals.

What finals were you watching? And Tay is a 3

 

[Blackace]

Their plan is clearly to trade Shaq for Prince, Wallace, Wallace, and Hamilton.

You see, the Lakers this year didn't really want to win the championship. They just wanted to see who had the best team so that they could trade for it.

You know, this can't be too far from situations that some lakers fans actually expect

Or they could go to the Pacers and trade for Bird himself!

 

[Archaix]

What finals were you watching? And Tay is a 3

Game 3-Prince and Kobe scored 11 points. I thought Prince had 13 in that game. Oh well, it's a push there. We're basing everything off your rules of one game determines the best, remember?

 

[DarienA]

Off-season is turning into something more interesting than the championship playoff series. If both players end up on teams with at least semi-competent role players... looks like one question might finally be answered next year... who's really capable of carrying a team by themselves.

 

[Blackace]

ESPN is saying that while Rudy T and Mike Bibby's father, Henry Bibby are the top two that the Lakers are looking at to replace Phil.... Coach Karl's name has also popped up... hahahah Can you see him coaching Kobe? Does that sound like even a good idea at all? chime in y'all

 

[Seth C]

LOL @ how Prince keeps getting this new Kobestopper rep. Did anyone watch game 2 where the Wallace boys weren't helping on Kobe? Fine, let's say Tay shut Kobe down. He did the same thing to Tmac in the 2nd round last year...

Tay wasn't guarding Kobe much of game two. Brown had Prince and Rip switch off on screens instead of having Prince trail him 100%. This is why you saw Kobe get a wiiiide open look to send the game in to OT. After the game Prince went to Brown and asked to be put back on Kobe. The Lakers lost the next three rather convincingly.

No shame in it though. Prince is a good defender, and his length gave him the ability to play off Kobe without giving him easy looks.

 

[Incognito]

Henry BIBBY?

ROFL.

He wouldn't be on my long-list of coaches to run my little league team.

 

[Blackace]

Henry BIBBY?

ROFL.

He wouldn't be on my long-list of coaches to run my little league team.

Yeah... the logic may be his cali roots... since he is coaching at USC. But not high on my list as well... most of the other high profile coaches are already gone... B.Scott would have been the dream fit for LA... Like Mac 10 was for the Sups...

 

[vangace]

I am life long laker fan and i think Shaq is a SELFISH, i mean how can you lambast the GM saying you need a good supporting cast when his own salary takes three quarters of the salary space and at the same time refuse to take a pay cut, how selfish is that. Yet he is the one calliing Kobe selfish. I will hate to see him leave but in his current state he is not worth 30million dollars a season and he still wants more. If the Lakers can get 2 or 3 solid players in the trade i say be it. Shaq's attitude is the main problem, he is overweight and refuses to lose as recommended by his doctors. I like the guy but he can't have it both ways.

 

[Chesapeake Silt]

Bibby is a hardcore disciplinarian with no NBA coaching experience - yeah, that sounds like a perfect fit for Kobe's Lakers. Eh, I've got to think that the Lakers have some sort of deal lined up in the wings and they're just floating names as a smokescreen. Maybe I'm giving the Lakers too much credit, but if Henry Bibby is a serious option for their head coaching job, they're in bad shape.

This Shaq trade stuff seems totally impossible - how can you deal for Shaq without completely gutting a team's roster? I was messing around with that RealGM site that lets you check trades against the salary cap or whatever.... the most amusing thing I've come up with is Shaq to Orlando, Tmac to Dallas, Jamison & Howard to LA (plus a bunch of minor players getting tossed around). Implausible, but sort of interesting.

Is it possible that Shaq could pull a Ty Law and suddenly decide to stick around? I mean... there's been strife like this in the Laker camp before... but then again, there's no longer a Jerry West or a Phil Jackson to make peace. Ah, who knows.

 

[Cloudy]

It seems like Piston was right all along. No way Mitch Kupchak just makes those comments on Thursday when he knows how sensitive Shaq is.

I think they wanted Shaq to demand a trade cos Kobe is not gonna re-sign to play 2 on 5 basketball for the next 2 years. Plus they have taken the extension offer ($54 mil over 3 years) for Shaq off the table. He actually wanted 100+ over 3 years at 35 fucking years old LOL!!!

 

[sc0la]

It's going to be absolutely surreal when Shaq's new team visits LA....and LA plays Hack-a-Shaq on him.

LOL

 

[sc0la]

ESPN is saying that while Rudy T and Mike Bibby's father, Henry Bibby are the top two that the Lakers are looking at to replace Phil

lol that would make for a great Kings lakers series. We would get so many shitty articles about the bibbys hating each other.

 

[bionic77]

Why are you supposed Laker fans so happy about Shaq leaving? This is a sad day for me at least. I was probably naively hoping that Shaq would take some sort of pay cut and they could convince Phil to come back. Maybe Buss is right though and the Lakers just need to start to rebuild. Who the hell could offer anything close to what Shaq is worth though? The only players close to his value are BETTER then Shaq is, and somehow I don't think that Duncan or Garnett are going to be traded. And I just don't see how they can get good enough big men to compete in a league that is dominated by Big Men, used to be by Shaq and Duncan and now it looks to be Duncan and Garnett. The only comfort I can take in this is that when the Lakers are truly terrible over the next couple years there won't be any damn bandwagon fans left. This truly sucks, the only thing that could make me happy now is to see Oneal go for McGrady, the team would be terrible but it would be GAME OVER for half of this board and especially DM.

P.S. It would be even better if Jordan joined them too!!! That would cause half the Jordaphiles to commit suicide.

 

[Cloudy]

The only players close to his value are BETTER then Shaq is

Who says they have to get just 1 or 2 players for Shaq? Minus Shaq, the team would need more depth and athleticism than talent...

 

[DMczaf]

Time to represent for T-Mac! This if the Offseason of T-Mac! New team time!

 

[bionic77]

Who says they have to get just 1 or 2 players for Shaq? Minus Shaq, the team would need more depth and athleticism than talent...

That shit ain't gonna happen in one year dude. If Shaq actually goes it might take them 3 years to get back to the finals, while if Shaq stays they have a chance every year. I really don't like how everyone is making Kobe the goat of EVERYTHING for the Lakers either. I love the Diesel, but it was Kobe that got them to the Finals and when Kobe played like shit it was Kobe that lost them the Finals too. Then again, it was obvious who the goat was going to be if they lost at any point in the playoffs anyways. Shaq gets all the glory and Kobe gets all the blame, no idea why, just the way it is.