Robinson negotiating to buy ex-president's share
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1842206
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1842206
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NBA Offseason Thread! All offseason NBA talk in THIS thread!
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1842289
Now we can cheer when he flops against $haq
Now we can cheer when he flops against $haq
Ninja Scooter
Member
i hope its not for the full MLE, but i fear that it is.
FOX SPORTS
KOBE VS MJ!!! Having coached Kobe and MJ, Cleamon believes Kobe legacy can be better!!!
Cleamons compares Kobe, MJ
Story Tools: Print Email
Sam Kellerman / Special to FOXSports.com
Posted: 13 hours ago
In the wake of the epic transformation of the Lakers, I sat down with Jim Cleamons, who was Phil Jackson's assistant coach for this entire L.A. dynasty.
Cleamons was also Phil's assistant coach for four of the Bulls championships in the '90s, including their second three-peat.
In the first-part of a three-part series, I asked Cleamons about Kobe Bryant, now the Laker's lone superstar, and how he stacks up to Michael Jordan. In part II, we talked about the Shaq trade and the future of the Lakers. In the final installment, we talked about why Cleamons was curiously not even considered for the job of Lakers head coach upon Phil Jackson's departure.
SAM KELLERMAN: The pendulum seems to swing back and forth on the Kobe versus MJ question. After Game 2 against the Pistons, a lot of people were saying that Kobe's as good or better than Jordan. Three games later, few people still believed that.
You actually helped coached both of them to three-peats. You're one of the very few people who is qualified to answer this question. So I'm asking you, point blank. Who's better, Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant?
JIM CLEAMONS: (After a 23-second silence.) Tough question.
In every generation you have a special superstar. In my day, growing up, Elgin Baylor was the joint. Kids in my neighborhood wanted to be Elgin Baylor. He brought it. Double-clutched, hung in the air, flipped something off the glass. In Michael's generation, it was Michael. In this generation it's Kobe Bryant.
I wouldn't know which one is the better player between Kobe and Michael.
Michael had a special IQ for the game of basketball. He accepted coaching, and that's part of his greatness. He accepts the chain of command. Even though he may not agree with it, he'll go out and do his best to try and make sure he gets the job done.
You see Michael thinking about what he needs to do to win the game. His mind is working, it's churning. He's calculating where the double teams are going to come from. He understands how to get rid of the basketball, how he's going to get the ball back. So he's thinking the game right along with you as a coach.
He didn't mind sharing the ball. Sometimes he didn't trust his teammates, early on. But in my first season with the Bulls, Michael had that game in the finals when he kept finding Paxon for like eight straight jumpshots. That was the game Michael finally became the Michael Jordan who is now revered. He trusted Pax, Pax came through for him. And from that point on, he trusted his teammates.
Now, on that road to trusting them, there were times when people said, 'Why doesn't he pass the ball?' Well, hell, they always threw it back to him anyway. He was our bail-out guy. Let's face it -- they threw him the ball in the worst predicaments. He accepted it. That's what superstars do. They say, Fine, I'll give you the basketball early enough in the clock so if you can't do anything with it, I know that you'll whip the ball back to me and I can take the bail-out shots. And I have to get accustomed to taking shots with guys hanging all over me.
SK: Does Kobe play team ball?
JC: Every year, during the regular season, people say things about Kobe. But come playoff time, it's winning time, and Kobe submits to the game plan to win championships. Oh, yeah.
SK: But it sounded like in praising Jordan for his coachability, there was an insinuation that Kobe lacks that.
JC: Kobe's going to learn that. Kobe's bright, one of the smartest. He's going to learn. Half of the stuff he does, he's testing himself. He's testing who he is as a player. Kobe's still 25 years old. Like we used to say in the neighborhood, he's still smelling his piss. Kobe wants to put more notches on his gun. And the notches are going to come.
But you have to learn to say, 'My big guy, I've got to get something out of you, you don't need to be fresh at the end of the game, your @#%$ should be as tired as the other guys. If I know that you're not getting enough touches, and we need you to score -- I'm getting you the ball.'
'And if you're up against a good defensive center tonight, and he likes to knock your stuff back in, and you haven't learned to score on this guy, then this time I'm not looking for you against the starter. But against the second team guy, I'm going to give you your touches then.'
SK: We saw the importance of offensive rebounding in the Pistons' defeat of the Lakers. Between Jordan and Kobe, who is the better offensive rebounder?
JC: Michael.
SK: Who is the better ball handler?
JC: Kobe.
SK: Who is the better playmaker?
JC: Michael wasn't the best passer, but he saw the court. When you talk about players, you have top of the floor players and beneath the floor players. Michael is a great beneath the floor player. Kobe is better initiating, coming from the top and making a pass. Michael isn't the ultimate point guard. We deferred to Scottie to bring the ball up. Scottie was just more fluid with the basketball, it was easier for him to do.
But if you get Michael the ball down there, he'll just kick your butt. Michael was our best post player.
SK: Is Michael stronger than Kobe?
JC: Yes. Oh, yes.
SK: Who has better hops, Michael or Kobe?
JC: In Michael's heyday, I'd go with him.
SK: What about footspeed? Up and down the court, who's faster, MJ or Kobe?
JC: Kobe's very athletic. Kobe might win that. But it would be by a nose.
SK: Overall athleticism?
JC: It's a coin flip. On any given day, one's going to have his way. The next day the other is going to come right back at you.
SK: Who has the better jumpshot?
JC: Michael has the better jumpshot because he took better percentage shots. Kobe has a nice shot, but he takes tough shots. If you take tough shots, your percentage isn't going to be as good. It's not degree of difficulty. Why break your neck? It's not a 2.5 or a 2.9. It's two points.
Michael had a way of just freeing himself. He was great at using his upper body strength, and people respected his first step and his spins. He always knew how to use his body to protect himself.
I remember Kobe came out two years ago with all these muscles, his arms, he had the guns. He didn't have that last year. He lost a lot of his definition.
SK: Wasn't that because of his two offseason surgeries?
JC: Yes. And he'll recapture all his tools and skills.
SK: Who's the better defender?
JC: Michael understood our schemes a lot better. I say that knowing that Kobe's been all-defensive first team three times, and that's testimony to his defense.
Michael and Scottie were terrific at understanding when to rotate and how to rotate. That team understood. Out here, I'm not sure our team did. When we had Ron Harper and Brian Shaw, Kobe really fit into that.
In Chicago, that's why we won. We had great offensive players, but we won because Scottie and Michael and Dennis Rodman -- we could shut teams down. You're talking about Bill Cartwright, John Paxson, Cliff Livingston. When we started rolling, we could just shut teams down for five or six possessions in a row.
In the pro game, your defense has to be two possessions better than your opponent. The average pro game is decided by 3.5 points. Two possessions. You've got to stop them twice, you've got to score twice.
SK: Do you think Kobe has a chance to end his career with a legacy greater than Michael Jordan's?
JC: Sure. Oh, yeah. He's accomplished more already. At 25, Michael hadn't even won his first title.
Sam Kellerman is a contributor to FOXSports.com. In the next installment of the interview, he discusses the Shaquille O'Neal trade, Kobe Bryant's new role with the Lakers and the team's future.
KOBE VS MJ!!! Having coached Kobe and MJ, Cleamon believes Kobe legacy can be better!!!
Cleamons compares Kobe, MJ
Story Tools: Print Email
Sam Kellerman / Special to FOXSports.com
Posted: 13 hours ago
In the wake of the epic transformation of the Lakers, I sat down with Jim Cleamons, who was Phil Jackson's assistant coach for this entire L.A. dynasty.
Cleamons was also Phil's assistant coach for four of the Bulls championships in the '90s, including their second three-peat.
In the first-part of a three-part series, I asked Cleamons about Kobe Bryant, now the Laker's lone superstar, and how he stacks up to Michael Jordan. In part II, we talked about the Shaq trade and the future of the Lakers. In the final installment, we talked about why Cleamons was curiously not even considered for the job of Lakers head coach upon Phil Jackson's departure.
SAM KELLERMAN: The pendulum seems to swing back and forth on the Kobe versus MJ question. After Game 2 against the Pistons, a lot of people were saying that Kobe's as good or better than Jordan. Three games later, few people still believed that.
You actually helped coached both of them to three-peats. You're one of the very few people who is qualified to answer this question. So I'm asking you, point blank. Who's better, Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant?
JIM CLEAMONS: (After a 23-second silence.) Tough question.
In every generation you have a special superstar. In my day, growing up, Elgin Baylor was the joint. Kids in my neighborhood wanted to be Elgin Baylor. He brought it. Double-clutched, hung in the air, flipped something off the glass. In Michael's generation, it was Michael. In this generation it's Kobe Bryant.
I wouldn't know which one is the better player between Kobe and Michael.
Michael had a special IQ for the game of basketball. He accepted coaching, and that's part of his greatness. He accepts the chain of command. Even though he may not agree with it, he'll go out and do his best to try and make sure he gets the job done.
You see Michael thinking about what he needs to do to win the game. His mind is working, it's churning. He's calculating where the double teams are going to come from. He understands how to get rid of the basketball, how he's going to get the ball back. So he's thinking the game right along with you as a coach.
He didn't mind sharing the ball. Sometimes he didn't trust his teammates, early on. But in my first season with the Bulls, Michael had that game in the finals when he kept finding Paxon for like eight straight jumpshots. That was the game Michael finally became the Michael Jordan who is now revered. He trusted Pax, Pax came through for him. And from that point on, he trusted his teammates.
Now, on that road to trusting them, there were times when people said, 'Why doesn't he pass the ball?' Well, hell, they always threw it back to him anyway. He was our bail-out guy. Let's face it -- they threw him the ball in the worst predicaments. He accepted it. That's what superstars do. They say, Fine, I'll give you the basketball early enough in the clock so if you can't do anything with it, I know that you'll whip the ball back to me and I can take the bail-out shots. And I have to get accustomed to taking shots with guys hanging all over me.
SK: Does Kobe play team ball?
JC: Every year, during the regular season, people say things about Kobe. But come playoff time, it's winning time, and Kobe submits to the game plan to win championships. Oh, yeah.
SK: But it sounded like in praising Jordan for his coachability, there was an insinuation that Kobe lacks that.
JC: Kobe's going to learn that. Kobe's bright, one of the smartest. He's going to learn. Half of the stuff he does, he's testing himself. He's testing who he is as a player. Kobe's still 25 years old. Like we used to say in the neighborhood, he's still smelling his piss. Kobe wants to put more notches on his gun. And the notches are going to come.
But you have to learn to say, 'My big guy, I've got to get something out of you, you don't need to be fresh at the end of the game, your @#%$ should be as tired as the other guys. If I know that you're not getting enough touches, and we need you to score -- I'm getting you the ball.'
'And if you're up against a good defensive center tonight, and he likes to knock your stuff back in, and you haven't learned to score on this guy, then this time I'm not looking for you against the starter. But against the second team guy, I'm going to give you your touches then.'
SK: We saw the importance of offensive rebounding in the Pistons' defeat of the Lakers. Between Jordan and Kobe, who is the better offensive rebounder?
JC: Michael.
SK: Who is the better ball handler?
JC: Kobe.
SK: Who is the better playmaker?
JC: Michael wasn't the best passer, but he saw the court. When you talk about players, you have top of the floor players and beneath the floor players. Michael is a great beneath the floor player. Kobe is better initiating, coming from the top and making a pass. Michael isn't the ultimate point guard. We deferred to Scottie to bring the ball up. Scottie was just more fluid with the basketball, it was easier for him to do.
But if you get Michael the ball down there, he'll just kick your butt. Michael was our best post player.
SK: Is Michael stronger than Kobe?
JC: Yes. Oh, yes.
SK: Who has better hops, Michael or Kobe?
JC: In Michael's heyday, I'd go with him.
SK: What about footspeed? Up and down the court, who's faster, MJ or Kobe?
JC: Kobe's very athletic. Kobe might win that. But it would be by a nose.
SK: Overall athleticism?
JC: It's a coin flip. On any given day, one's going to have his way. The next day the other is going to come right back at you.
SK: Who has the better jumpshot?
JC: Michael has the better jumpshot because he took better percentage shots. Kobe has a nice shot, but he takes tough shots. If you take tough shots, your percentage isn't going to be as good. It's not degree of difficulty. Why break your neck? It's not a 2.5 or a 2.9. It's two points.
Michael had a way of just freeing himself. He was great at using his upper body strength, and people respected his first step and his spins. He always knew how to use his body to protect himself.
I remember Kobe came out two years ago with all these muscles, his arms, he had the guns. He didn't have that last year. He lost a lot of his definition.
SK: Wasn't that because of his two offseason surgeries?
JC: Yes. And he'll recapture all his tools and skills.
SK: Who's the better defender?
JC: Michael understood our schemes a lot better. I say that knowing that Kobe's been all-defensive first team three times, and that's testimony to his defense.
Michael and Scottie were terrific at understanding when to rotate and how to rotate. That team understood. Out here, I'm not sure our team did. When we had Ron Harper and Brian Shaw, Kobe really fit into that.
In Chicago, that's why we won. We had great offensive players, but we won because Scottie and Michael and Dennis Rodman -- we could shut teams down. You're talking about Bill Cartwright, John Paxson, Cliff Livingston. When we started rolling, we could just shut teams down for five or six possessions in a row.
In the pro game, your defense has to be two possessions better than your opponent. The average pro game is decided by 3.5 points. Two possessions. You've got to stop them twice, you've got to score twice.
SK: Do you think Kobe has a chance to end his career with a legacy greater than Michael Jordan's?
JC: Sure. Oh, yeah. He's accomplished more already. At 25, Michael hadn't even won his first title.
Sam Kellerman is a contributor to FOXSports.com. In the next installment of the interview, he discusses the Shaquille O'Neal trade, Kobe Bryant's new role with the Lakers and the team's future.
I don't think that should open the flood gates. He basically said that Jordan was better at everything except ballhandling, which is more or less true. He also made a very good point about Kobe not having the upper body strength last year.
EDIT- Vlade to LA? That's pretty good for the MLE (considering everyone is getting that this offseason) but hell only play 20 minutes a game...
EDIT- Vlade to LA? That's pretty good for the MLE (considering everyone is getting that this offseason) but hell only play 20 minutes a game...
Bat said:
Vlade is an awesome pickup for the Lakers, he is a good bigman and 20-30 minutes in the playoffs would be great, they still need another legit center though. Brian Grant won't cut it, he is pretty much worthless, wonder how Odom would at PF too. Gonna be interesting to see the Lakers next year.
Bat, you think Kobe will get back his upper body strength? Dude has a trial to go to, he can't be worried about getting back in shape this year......
PartlyCloudlike
Member
Poody said:
PartlyCloudlike
Member
bionic77 said:
Does he mean Kobe is faster off the dribble though? Had the question been "Who's faster on both ends of the court," then it would have been more specific about lateral movement or breaking a defender down off the dribble. I don't hear the phrase "faster up and down the court" very often; I normally hear the aforementioned "both ends of the court," so if anyone can enlighten me.
PartlyCloudlike
Member
bionic77 said:
Also remember Cleamons didn't coach Jordan from 84 to 89 when he was at his fastest.
And Cleamons still barely gave Kobe an edge but he sure did sound uncertain about it, didn't he?PartlyCloudlike said:
He isn't that specific on whether he means that Kobe was slightly faster in his top speed or his first step, two things which are totally different, but eh even if Kobe is slightly faster or can jump higher, relatively you have to say that Jordan was heads and shoulders above the guys he played against in his day. Look at how athletic and if I can use the term, 'Jordanesque' players are today, there was only one guy like that when Jordan played now there are like a couple guys like that in every draft with similar skills.
PartlyCloudlike
Member
DMczaf said:
You can take him, Laker fans!
Yeah, he's on your team bionic. lol
Jumpman
Member
The thing about Jordan that has always amazed me is his shooting percentage. Shooting over 50% for a season as a guard is outstanding. Nobody even comes close to doing that anymore. If Kobe is to ever be seen in the same light as Micheal, I think he will have to find a way to reach that level of efficiency.
Poody said:
Er, maybe you should play this back first...
http://www.nba.com/0001Video/carter_v_dunk_021101.avi
BTW, Brent Barry has shot .497 or better three of the last four seasons, to go along with five straight seasons of 40% shooting or better behind the three point arc. But yeah, that's an exception to the rule...and career wise he's still only 46.4%, while MJ finished at 49.7%.
First off, about the speed issue:
I don't care if, at the conclusion of that interview, Jim Cleamons proceeded to rip off his face, clown-style, and reveal himself to be Jesus Christ-- there is NO WAY IN HELL that Kobe is anywhere near as fast as Jordan in ANY respect (first step, flat-out speed, changing directions, defensively etc.). Thankfully, I have my own eyes, and don't need to rely on CleamonsVision® to make a judgment call on that one.
I defy anyone to watch the entire side A of Disc 1 of the recently released "Bulls: the 90's" DVD and then come and honestly tell me that they believe that Kobe is faster than Jordan in any way. It is simply a baseless assertion; I have games on tape of each player making the SAME EXACT move, and in every instance Jordan is faster and "tighter", athletically (i.e., more body control/coordination). No, the difference isn't immense, but it's clearly noticeable.
To the poster above still getting his jollies off of Jordan getting crossed over by AI:
News flash: Iverson crossed-up a 35 year old Jordan, who still managed to recover and get a hand in his face on the shot, and was about two-tenths of a second away from swatting that shot. Take 7-10 years off of Jordan and I guarantee you that that play would've had a different result, unless you believe that 10 years doesn't result in 2/10 of a second being lost in speed/reaction time. When your feet aren't as fast anymore, you have to anticipate more, because you have to compensate for that. A younger Jordan would have been able to wait a bit longer before "biting" on the crossover, and wouldn't have been crossed-up as much, if at all. This is simple logic in playing defense; anyone who plays ball knows this. When you're quicker, you can afford to have faith in your footspeed and reaction time to put you back in the play even if a guy gets half a step on you.
Besides all this, you act as if Kobe hasn't been crossed-up just as badly by guys who were nowhere NEAR as fast as Iverson (see: Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Chauncey Billups in the Finals, who ABUSED Kobe up top with a crossover on one play and nearly made him fall). It just didn't receive as much play simply because Jordan was known as the best defender of his generation; Kobe hasn't earned that respect, and besides that, gets beat on the regular-- so obviously it's not gonna be news when some guy abuses him off the dribble. It happens though, believe me.
As far as Kobe having more "crossovers" than Jordan had-- sure, that's obvious. Today's game is all about flash and no substance; most streetballers place an undue emphasis on "handles", and view it as some sort of great thing. Hint: having a better handle is only beneficial if it gets you into scoring position better by allowing you to shake your man. And how would one measure THAT? Well, by FG%...but I know Kobe fans don't wanna go there. Jordan was considered one of the best ballhandlers of his day by his peers and coaches, along with Isiah Thomas and Tim Hardaway. Kobe is in that same league now, certainly, especially for his size. But I will say that I've seen Jordan do things with the dribble that I've never seen Kobe do, but I cannot truly say the same about Kobe, except for the new-school "huge crossover", which nobody back in the day ever did and which was developed in the mid-90's on the playground.
And Bionic, AI was not a "lot" faster than Jordan was when he was young, believe me-- assuming he was faster at all (I have my doubts). There are a few clips on that new DVD which clearly illustrate just how incredibly quick Jordan was; in one, he goes from 3 feet inside the halfcourt line to the basket faster than you'll ever see anyone else do it. The explosion and acceleration is just unreal. But anyway, I always say these things and nobody ever believes me, so I'll shut my mouth. Maybe DM can corroborate my analysis of this specific clip, seeing as how he has the DVD as well, but he's not exactly the most unbiased person either, so that won't get us very far.
And there is also no way that Kobe is "better at initiating, coming from the top and making a pass." Err, no. Kobe's an excellent passer with a lot of pizzazz, but just...no. The way I feel about it is that Jordan was capable of doing whatever he wanted whenever he wanted on the basketball court. I've never gotten that same impression from Kobe, though I take nothing away from his obvious gifts and incredible ability.
And this quote from Cleamons:
"Michael had a way of just freeing himself. He was great at using his upper body strength, and people respected his first step and his spins. He always knew how to use his body to protect himself."
Understates this fact dramatically. My favorite description of Jordan was from a SLAM magazine article upon his return in '95 (and I paraphrase): "Yeah, he's got some rust on him, and doesn't have the same hops, but he can still get free any time he wants to; just like water, they still can't hold him". That was Jordan.
Anyway, I'm not going to get into a drawn-out debate over this, seeing as how I'm just being reinstated here and all. Just wanted to give my opinion since everybody else was giving theirs.
I don't care if, at the conclusion of that interview, Jim Cleamons proceeded to rip off his face, clown-style, and reveal himself to be Jesus Christ-- there is NO WAY IN HELL that Kobe is anywhere near as fast as Jordan in ANY respect (first step, flat-out speed, changing directions, defensively etc.). Thankfully, I have my own eyes, and don't need to rely on CleamonsVision® to make a judgment call on that one.
I defy anyone to watch the entire side A of Disc 1 of the recently released "Bulls: the 90's" DVD and then come and honestly tell me that they believe that Kobe is faster than Jordan in any way. It is simply a baseless assertion; I have games on tape of each player making the SAME EXACT move, and in every instance Jordan is faster and "tighter", athletically (i.e., more body control/coordination). No, the difference isn't immense, but it's clearly noticeable.
To the poster above still getting his jollies off of Jordan getting crossed over by AI:
News flash: Iverson crossed-up a 35 year old Jordan, who still managed to recover and get a hand in his face on the shot, and was about two-tenths of a second away from swatting that shot. Take 7-10 years off of Jordan and I guarantee you that that play would've had a different result, unless you believe that 10 years doesn't result in 2/10 of a second being lost in speed/reaction time. When your feet aren't as fast anymore, you have to anticipate more, because you have to compensate for that. A younger Jordan would have been able to wait a bit longer before "biting" on the crossover, and wouldn't have been crossed-up as much, if at all. This is simple logic in playing defense; anyone who plays ball knows this. When you're quicker, you can afford to have faith in your footspeed and reaction time to put you back in the play even if a guy gets half a step on you.
Besides all this, you act as if Kobe hasn't been crossed-up just as badly by guys who were nowhere NEAR as fast as Iverson (see: Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Chauncey Billups in the Finals, who ABUSED Kobe up top with a crossover on one play and nearly made him fall). It just didn't receive as much play simply because Jordan was known as the best defender of his generation; Kobe hasn't earned that respect, and besides that, gets beat on the regular-- so obviously it's not gonna be news when some guy abuses him off the dribble. It happens though, believe me.
As far as Kobe having more "crossovers" than Jordan had-- sure, that's obvious. Today's game is all about flash and no substance; most streetballers place an undue emphasis on "handles", and view it as some sort of great thing. Hint: having a better handle is only beneficial if it gets you into scoring position better by allowing you to shake your man. And how would one measure THAT? Well, by FG%...but I know Kobe fans don't wanna go there. Jordan was considered one of the best ballhandlers of his day by his peers and coaches, along with Isiah Thomas and Tim Hardaway. Kobe is in that same league now, certainly, especially for his size. But I will say that I've seen Jordan do things with the dribble that I've never seen Kobe do, but I cannot truly say the same about Kobe, except for the new-school "huge crossover", which nobody back in the day ever did and which was developed in the mid-90's on the playground.
And Bionic, AI was not a "lot" faster than Jordan was when he was young, believe me-- assuming he was faster at all (I have my doubts). There are a few clips on that new DVD which clearly illustrate just how incredibly quick Jordan was; in one, he goes from 3 feet inside the halfcourt line to the basket faster than you'll ever see anyone else do it. The explosion and acceleration is just unreal. But anyway, I always say these things and nobody ever believes me, so I'll shut my mouth. Maybe DM can corroborate my analysis of this specific clip, seeing as how he has the DVD as well, but he's not exactly the most unbiased person either, so that won't get us very far.
And there is also no way that Kobe is "better at initiating, coming from the top and making a pass." Err, no. Kobe's an excellent passer with a lot of pizzazz, but just...no. The way I feel about it is that Jordan was capable of doing whatever he wanted whenever he wanted on the basketball court. I've never gotten that same impression from Kobe, though I take nothing away from his obvious gifts and incredible ability.
And this quote from Cleamons:
"Michael had a way of just freeing himself. He was great at using his upper body strength, and people respected his first step and his spins. He always knew how to use his body to protect himself."
Understates this fact dramatically. My favorite description of Jordan was from a SLAM magazine article upon his return in '95 (and I paraphrase): "Yeah, he's got some rust on him, and doesn't have the same hops, but he can still get free any time he wants to; just like water, they still can't hold him". That was Jordan.
Anyway, I'm not going to get into a drawn-out debate over this, seeing as how I'm just being reinstated here and all.
Just wanted to give my opinion since everybody else was giving theirs. RobotChant
Member
Cleamons name has been tossed around concerning the Sparks coaching vacancy.
Vlade would be a good pick up for the Lakers, especially if they run a motion offense. He had the worst rebounding year of his career this past season while having one of his best assist years.
Vlade would be a good pick up for the Lakers, especially if they run a motion offense. He had the worst rebounding year of his career this past season while having one of his best assist years.
Apparently Divac's has agreed to sign with the Lakeshow for the MLE.
http://www.pe.com/sports/breakout/stories/PE_Sports_Local_nba_notes_19.57936.html
Too late and too lazy to register so im hoping its credible. (Taken from Clublakers.com)
http://www.pe.com/sports/breakout/stories/PE_Sports_Local_nba_notes_19.57936.html
Too late and too lazy to register so im hoping its credible. (Taken from Clublakers.com)
Great news with Divac signing on. That gives us a legit center and really helps out our front court a lot. It would be awesome if we could also resign Malone and dupe some retarded team into dealing Grant for a good PG. If we could do that I could see LA making some noise and with some luck they could even contend for a title. It would be hard to see anyone being dumb enough to give up a good point guard and anything else for Grant though, then again maybe the Wizards would help us out with Arenas.
Yes I am dreaming, but you never know with the Wizards, Stack for Hamilton?
Yes I am dreaming, but you never know with the Wizards, Stack for Hamilton?
Ninja Scooter
Member
Miami was looking to deal Grant for the last 2 years with no luck. We're gonna be stuck with him. I would still like to get a backup bigman. Somebody younger. Keon Clark might have been a nice pickup, but he seems injury prone.
What exactly can Grant do? I haven't really seen him play since his Portland days. I seem to recall him just being a scorer on the block, which is something we could use but I wonder if he can still do that against the bigs in the West on a regular basis. And most importantly, how well does he rebound and defend? I don't really remember him being that great at either.
Ninja Scooter
Member
if his knees can hold up, he's a banger. HE can get in there, do some dirty work. Grab boards, play solid D (by no means will he shut down or anything close to that on guys like Duncan or KG, but he will hold his own), and even give you solid minutes at the 5 spot. I remember i REALLY wanted Grant back when he was a FA four years ago after our first championship. I thought he would have been the perfect PF to pair with Shaq for a dynasty run, but we signed Horace Grant instead and Brian got a huge deal from Miami in a sign and trade (we were actually involved in that trade, it was that big 4 team deal). Like i said, it all depends on how healthy he can stay.
I love you Loki but AI was certainly faster than Jordan at any point in his career. He might not have been "a lot" faster or quicker but there is no disputing there was a noticeable difference.
AI might be the quickest player that has ever played in the NBA.
bionic77 said:
He's been on the team, I didn't like him before, I don't like him now... I've always considered him to be a "soft" center. But I see what's up....after letting Shaq go LA became obsessed with apparently grabbing any available big man out there so... more power to them. And Vlade certainly won't be engaging in any tug of wars with Kobe over control of the team....
golem said:
The Kings can keep Peja, what we really need is a good point guard. Grant's contract is up in 2 years so we can get a big name PG at that time if any are free agents when his contract are up. Or convince Arenas to screw the Wizards and demand a trade for Grant.......
bionic77 said:
you keep mentioning Arenas, why are you so big on him... he's struck me as a big flake although he is a good player. He flipped a coin ten times to decide whether to sign with Clippers or Wizards, and Clippers won 7-3... so he signed with the Wizards. And his odd behavior and attitude at times made Kwame Brown look level headed last year.
golem said:
Dude, Kobe can NOT bring the ball up if the Lakers want to have any chance to win a ring. That will just take too much energy out of him. Plus a good PG would help Kobe and everyone else on the team get easier buckets, you can underestimate the value of a good or great PG to a team.
bionic77 said:
Heh, not unlike Malone...
Problem is Divac was on a loaded team in Sacremento that were considered title contenders the last three years, and they haven't even had a sniff of the finals. Hell they couldn't even make it to the conference finals the last two years, with four different teams doing that job.
And Arenas going to LA is a pipe dream, unless Odom's going the other way. What's going on with Fisher? And how come Hudson hasn't signed yet?
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