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NBA Offseason Thread! All offseason NBA talk in THIS thread!
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Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
HalfPastNoon said:
http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2592722
Charley Rosen says otherwise...
"The very first pronouncement of West's that I personally witnessed occurred just before the Lakers' initial preseason practice session in October 1999. As a longtime friend of Jackson's, I felt obliged to offer West a small warning: "Phil's teams always start off slowly while they're learning the triangle."
West's sour response was this: "He's got six weeks."
Turned out that after six weeks, the Lakers were 31-6 and West was even more resentful than before. His most wished-for scenario was for the Lakers to collapse and for Buss to beg him to save the team. Part-ownership, unlimited power, bucks galore Buss would gladly accede to whatever West required. When West's dream turned into a personal nightmare, he began to actively undermine Jackson.
Part of Jackson's game plan was to create an environment where the players mostly disciplined themselves. This, because he understood that any directives coming from civilians are viewed by players as being heavy-handed, intrusive, and misguided. (So when Pippen refused to play in the infamous "1.8 Seconds Game" against the Knicks, it was his teammates who effectively reprimanded him.) But word was leaked from West to friendly L.A. journalists that Jackson was a do-nothing coach. Also that the triangle was bogus and that Kobe was being underutilized. With West as the conduit, the previously secret news of Jackson's relationship with Jeannie Buss was fed to scandal-hungry press-peepers in Chicago. "
Pellham said:
I also thought the Pistons were going to give the Lakers problems because of their defensive front court. I thought they had enough mass and size to slow Shaq down, if Karl was healthy he could have made them pay when they doubled Shaq but that is a moot point now.
I honestly didn't know if the Pistons could win versus the Lakers, and I didn't think they belonged in the finals, given how much they completely fucked up in the early rounds, but I was pretty confident they could beat anyone in the West, just a little less confident concerning the Lakers.
SKluck said:
The Pistons definitely had their share of luck in getting to the finals, they really faced a depleted Pacers who I think would have won if they were healthy. But, even if you stink it up in the earlier rounds I think the Pistons just matched up really well against the Lakers. They would have gotten spanked imho against the other elites in the West, but they had a good team to give the Lakers problems.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Mehmet Okur=the next Bryant "Big Country" Reeves?
Blackace said:
Half Past Noon is an idiot, so don't mind him.
I had the Pistons going to the finals the moment they traded for Sheed. Think I had the Spurs beating them in six in the finals, but the Pistons I thought were the one eastern conference team best equipped to beat the elite in the west, due to their defense and the size and ability of their frontcourt. I didn't know their defense was THAT good though...it really was phenominal, and clearly underrated (or at least underappreciated) for much of the season. Incidently I think the Pistons could've used Brent Barry as much as the Spurs did, to give them one legit, consistent shot maker.
What about Rip? He can shoot a little bit. Unless you are talking about a three point specialist.
As a side question, I'd be curious to see what everyone thinks about the Bobcats. How many games are we gonna win in our rookie season?
Will we be Miami Heat bad (15 wins I think?) or Minnesota Timberwolves good (29 wins?)? I think the Cats can win between 25 and 30 games this year. The division is pretty bad, and I think we've already got pretty good talent inside with Okafor, Ely. Loren Woods of all people is tearing up Summer League too. Can't forget Gerald Wallace. This team is young and athletic, and the future looks pretty bright to me.
As a side question, I'd be curious to see what everyone thinks about the Bobcats. How many games are we gonna win in our rookie season?
Will we be Miami Heat bad (15 wins I think?) or Minnesota Timberwolves good (29 wins?)? I think the Cats can win between 25 and 30 games this year. The division is pretty bad, and I think we've already got pretty good talent inside with Okafor, Ely. Loren Woods of all people is tearing up Summer League too. Can't forget Gerald Wallace. This team is young and athletic, and the future looks pretty bright to me.
Rip is a medicore three point shooter, though he can drop some big three's and is pretty good overall in the field. Still, I think one more outside threat would really open things up for them.
As for the Bobcats, it's hard to say...the NBA landscape has changed so drastically the last few weeks, it's almost impossible to sort things out. And there may still be more drastic changes to come, with the names of VC, Ray Allen and others still appearing in rumoured trades.
As for the Bobcats, it's hard to say...the NBA landscape has changed so drastically the last few weeks, it's almost impossible to sort things out. And there may still be more drastic changes to come, with the names of VC, Ray Allen and others still appearing in rumoured trades.
Yeah Rip's midrange game killed Duke in 99, broke my heart. I've had him on my shit list ever since, he's a damn good player though.
As far as the Bobcats, I wonder what people's thoughts are on the Charlotte situation nationwide. Do you think that the Hornets got the raw end of the deal or that Charlotte did? As a Charlottean, I can see it both ways, but I hate the fact that the Hornets actually left. I'm curious what the perception is.
I have to admit, their last two years in Charlotte were awesome for me. I'd pay $15 to get into the building, and sit pretty much anywhere. Charlotte had it's reasons for not giving in to Shinn's demands, but his demands were legitimate. We've broken ground on a new stadium which the Bobcats will play in next season (season after the one coming up), and that was what Shinn wanted. It was a complicated soap opera, but it still stings that the NBA could let a team that led the NBA in attendance for 8 of it's 11 or so years just up and move. I hesitate to say it worked out best for both involved, as Shinn is having big problems in New Orleans.
I do like the fact that a billionaire was involved in the new team, but I know I'm missing the Hornet history and Baron Davis. It also sucks that these loyal fans are going to have to go through another expansion team. The NBA might be surprised, they won't do as well in Charlotte as they did last time. I wouldn't be totally shocked if the Bobcats didn't draw shit.
As far as the Bobcats, I wonder what people's thoughts are on the Charlotte situation nationwide. Do you think that the Hornets got the raw end of the deal or that Charlotte did? As a Charlottean, I can see it both ways, but I hate the fact that the Hornets actually left. I'm curious what the perception is.
I have to admit, their last two years in Charlotte were awesome for me. I'd pay $15 to get into the building, and sit pretty much anywhere. Charlotte had it's reasons for not giving in to Shinn's demands, but his demands were legitimate. We've broken ground on a new stadium which the Bobcats will play in next season (season after the one coming up), and that was what Shinn wanted. It was a complicated soap opera, but it still stings that the NBA could let a team that led the NBA in attendance for 8 of it's 11 or so years just up and move. I hesitate to say it worked out best for both involved, as Shinn is having big problems in New Orleans.
I do like the fact that a billionaire was involved in the new team, but I know I'm missing the Hornet history and Baron Davis. It also sucks that these loyal fans are going to have to go through another expansion team. The NBA might be surprised, they won't do as well in Charlotte as they did last time. I wouldn't be totally shocked if the Bobcats didn't draw shit.
I hope they do well...Charlotte always seemed like a cool market to me. The whole squabble with the city and owners sure seemed bitter from the outside. At least Charlotte gets to start their new life with a recognizable face in Okafur, who I hope can make a good impact next year (except against my teams of course, heh).
I think one of the reasons the mid range jumper is dying is because of how much better defenses are in the NBA today. Players have to go further and further out to spread the defense and defenders collapse so fast on players that step inside the 3 point line. This isn't like the 80s where you could pump one defender take 3 steps inside and have a wide open shot, that only works against the worst defenses in the NBA. I think something that would really help would be to make the court wider, that would put a lot more stress on the defense when teams swing the ball around and would open up the mid range jumper and other offensive options.
"Needing to find a replacement for Boozer and appease their fans, the Cavaliers acquired Drew Gooden in a four-player swap with Orlando on Friday.
Cleveland sent forward Tony Battie and two second-round draft picks to the Magic in exchange for Gooden, Brazilian rookie forward Anderson Varejao and 7-foot center Steven Hunter."
Cleveland sent forward Tony Battie and two second-round draft picks to the Magic in exchange for Gooden, Brazilian rookie forward Anderson Varejao and 7-foot center Steven Hunter."
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
bionic77 said:
While I agree with you to some degree... I think it is a lost skill that players are not developing....
And now with players coming into the league younger and younger.... they don't get the same chance to learn the basics of basketball....
Even when we look at players like Malone late in his career in Utah... he was able to get good mid range jumpers off...because players feared him to drive to the bucket allowing him to drop easy buckets on the baseline
bionic77 said:
You're crazy.
They just aren't developing those skills-- if they did, it'd still be as effective as ever. How many premier scorers in the league have a midrange J? Not McGrady, certainly not Kobe. Hamilton has a deadly midrange game, sure, but it's mostly off screens and curls, not off the dribble. How many times have you seen Kobe, or TMac, or Carter, or even Iverson take one hard dribble to the left and then raise up for a quick J? Even more rare is two dribbles and then a jumper, or one dribble, a crossover, and a J. Most offensive players nowadays try to either post up, go all the way to the bucket for the dunk, or settle for the 3 or set shot before they dribble.
Not to bring his name up, but Jordan was killing guys with his midrange game not 2-3 years ago, and that's because, as a tool, it's still effective. Know who else has a midrange game? Dirk Nowitzki. He's one of the few players you'll see take one dribble, hesitate, take a second quick dribble and then just rise up into the air for a jumper.
You just don't see that much anymore. I can't think of any top 15 scorer besides Dirk who does it. Oh yeah, Allan Houston too-- do you really think that someone as unathletic and uncreative and slow as Allan Houston has any business averaging 20+? He does it because he has range and also a potent midrange game.
Loki said:You're crazy.
They just aren't developing those skills-- if they did, it'd still be as effective as ever. How many premier scorers in the league have a midrange J? Not McGrady, certainly not Kobe. Hamilton has a deadly midrange game, sure, but it's mostly off screens and curls, not off the dribble. How many times have you seen Kobe, or TMac, or Carter, or even Iverson take one hard dribble to the left and then raise up for a quick J? Even more rare is two dribbles and then a jumper, or one dribble, a crossover, and a J. Most offensive players nowadays try to either post up, go all the way to the bucket for the dunk, or settle for the 3 or set shot before they dribble.
Not to bring his name up, but Jordan was killing guys with his midrange game not 2-3 years ago, and that's because, as a tool, it's still effective. Know who else has a midrange game? Dirk Nowitzki. He's one of the few players you'll see take one dribble, hesitate, take a second quick dribble and then just rise up into the air for a jumper.
You just don't see that much anymore. I can't think of any top 15 scorer besides Dirk who does it. Oh yeah, Allan Houston too-- do you really think that someone as unathletic and uncreative and slow as Allan Houston has any business averaging 20+? He does it because he has range and also a potent midrange game.
Dude, btw Kobe has a great midrange jumper. He sometimes settles for the long ass 3 though because he can be a retard and seems to believe that a 40 foot jumper with a hand in his face is better then passing the ball to an open teammate, but he HAS a good midrange game, he just doesn't get open enough to shoot it. As soon as he puts the ball on the floor defenders collapse on him. I don't know about McGrady, but I am sure he COULD have a great midrange jumper, but he seems to be afraid of contact now and like Kobe settles for longer jumpers because there is always someone running at him forcing him to give up the ball as soon as he puts on the floor. Hell Rip Hamilton has a great midrange jumper, but he is getting those shots off of a lot of picks and he gets a wide open shot. In the 03 season Kobe did take a lot more mid range jumpers and post ups, but I don't think he was strong enough physically to do that this year.
And Dirk? The guy is 7 feet tall and can shoot from anywhere on the court. He is a freak of nature and shouldn't be used as a example of how the midrange jumper is dying. I admit the Allan Houston example is a good one of how effective a midrange jumper can be, but then I could never explain how he could average that many points.
BTW, how many times have I seen Kobe take a hard dribble to the left and shoot a J? How about 10 times a game, what games have you been watching? Kobe was a bad example for you to use, his 'offensive' game is totally complete dude, there is pretty much nothing he can't do on the court. It is the mental aspect of the game where he needs to improve.
DMczaf said:
"I guarantee a Game 5 victory."
"What I meant to say was..."
As far as midrange shooting goes, Pierce has a devestating dribble, stop and drop shot. I seem to be the only one on the board that likes his game though.
I thought I was having a nightmare....
Christ, I was asleep a while ago, and I wake up to the sound of my door opening.
I see the word Jazz and the number 32 coming at me.
"OH GOD...NO! HELP MEEEEEEEE!!!!!"
...my little bro borrowed his friend's Malone jersey.
God I wanted to kick his ass....>_<
Christ, I was asleep a while ago, and I wake up to the sound of my door opening.
I see the word Jazz and the number 32 coming at me.
"OH GOD...NO! HELP MEEEEEEEE!!!!!"
...my little bro borrowed his friend's Malone jersey.
God I wanted to kick his ass....>_<
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Miguel 81
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Bat 52
HalfPastNoon 49
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bishoptl 37
DarienA 34
Seth C 28
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Archaix 23
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Meier 18
RobotChant 18
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Matlock 11
golem 11
PartlyCloudlike 10
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kevm3 8
BatiGOOOOOOL 8
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G4life98 7
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