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NBA Offseason Thread! All offseason NBA talk in THIS thread!
- Thread starter DMczaf
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Jordan has denied wanting to comeback, saying he doesn't know where the story came from. Could be a case of him saving face due to Shaq not wanting him, but I have a hard time believing MJ would want to come back at this stage. No way his body could play a full season, let alone take the playoff grind.
Shinobi said:
Well, if he played limited minutes he could still be pretty effective, though I don't know if he would want to come back as a role player when he used to be one of the best players of all time. I agree that this is all probably bullshit and just being kept alive by desperate fanboys.
Why do you people keep saying you do not want to see MJ come back? The guy is a freakin LEGEND! Let him play until he's 80 and in a walker...I'd still watch him! Who in their right mind would not watch MJ in a basketball game due to his age? Please! It's freakin Michael Jordan we're talkin about here!
I just don't understand all the hate for wanting to come back? If he wants to play again, let him play again. It's his life, and he can do whatever he wants with it. Whether he sucks on the court or not, we're still watching Michael-freakin-Jordan play basketball. That in itself will never change, and will always be an entertaining site to see! Come on back Mike!
I just don't understand all the hate for wanting to come back? If he wants to play again, let him play again. It's his life, and he can do whatever he wants with it. Whether he sucks on the court or not, we're still watching Michael-freakin-Jordan play basketball. That in itself will never change, and will always be an entertaining site to see! Come on back Mike!
Me. I don't want to see MJ come back for more than a few reasons, number 1 being that he can tarnish his legacy. Of course he can't completely ruin it, but who wants to see an old MJ getting crossed over, dunked on, shot on, etc. on a constant basis. Holyfield would be a bit more regarded if he retired after beating Tyson, but he had to keep on and suffer losses to Lewis, Ruiz and get mashed out by Tony... I just don't want to see a mediocre looking MJ on the court. He can be a smart player, but I don't think he has the atheticism in his old age to keep up with a lot of these guys in the league.
I'm seemingly one of the few who thought MJ more then proved himself in his last comeback. But he struggled quite a bit as well, and only a blind person could deny that. Look at some of the legendary streaks he had going...having a career shooting precentage of over .500 (now it's .497), or not having scored less then 6 points in a game that he started in like 15 years or something stupid like that (he did that several times). Plus it took everything he had just to keep his body in shape, and it still broke down on him a number of times. It'd be that much worse for him with yet another comeback. And say MJ comes back to the Heat, and they win a championship. Well, does MJ want to be remembered as a guy that was carried to one? I think one of the coolest things about MJ's legacy is that he won 6 rings with (relatively speaking) nothing but shit for big men, which rarely happens if you look at history. So why ruin that streak? :lol
I loved watching the 40 year old MJ...but there comes a point in everyone's life that you gotta step away. I'm sure a 90 year old MJ could still school my ass if he played me today, but it isn't one that's going to do anything in the NBA. Nobody can beat father time...not even Jordan.
I loved watching the 40 year old MJ...but there comes a point in everyone's life that you gotta step away. I'm sure a 90 year old MJ could still school my ass if he played me today, but it isn't one that's going to do anything in the NBA. Nobody can beat father time...not even Jordan.
Shinobi said:
I largely agree, even though the 40 year-old Jordan was still doing things in-game that I've never seen anybody else do, and it's tempting to think that he could come back at 41 or 42 and still make you go "what the shit!?" over these little things you see during the course of a game (I'm not necessarily talking the "reverse layups/dunks" here, just little things that other people can't do). But I think it's for the best that he stays retired.
I, too, do not look at his Wizards stint as a failure, because when you think about it, at age 39, he averaged 23 points, 6 rebounds, 5.2 assists and 1.5 steals per game-- that's still better across the board than 95% of shooting guards out there, including guys like Allan Houston, Sprewell, Michael Redd, Ray Allen, Ron Artest, Vince Carter (Carter avg'd 2 more points but less in every other area) etc., and-- dare I say it-- compares favorably to the numbers that Kobe Bryant and McGrady posted that same year. Now I'm not saying that at age 39 he was as good as those are, but you'd be really stretching things if you called his return a "failure". The numbers would have been even better without those knee injuries (stupid Eton Thomas!
); at the All-Star break, the Wiz were solidly in the 6th spot in the East and riding the wave, playing great ball, finding ways to scrape together wins with Jordan as the maestro. I don't see how that's a failure-- if anything, that's a vindication of his supreme skill and will imo.Oh, and Shinobi, he had a career 51% shooting percentage prior to his return at age 39.
The other streak you allude to was the double-digit scoring streak, which stands at 842 consecutive games, prior to which he had a single game of 8 points, which was preceded by like another 200+ games of double-digit scoring. Insane that he practically scored in double digits every game of his career (1000+ straight games). Crazy. Ninja Scooter
Member
Vlade no!
Ninja Scooter
Member
Miguel said:
Uh oh, somebody already posted that.
Kcerrid 31
Member
kevm3 said:
I have to agree with Kevm3 on this one. As much as I respect MJ for the beautiful canvas of artwork that he has left us, there's really no where left to go but down. He will always be synonimous (sp) with the word "Basketball", and I'm sure plenty of Baby Boomer, and Gen.X parents will share their MJ videos with their kids, so MJ's legacy won't be forgotten.
The NBA has to figure out a way to move beyond the One Man Show prototype that MJ left behind because, frankly, that prototype is REALLY fucking up the league. MJ was a once in a lifetime Player when he entered the league. So apparently, the NBA Powers That Be just assumed that there'd be plenty more around the corner. wrong wrong WRONG MuthaFuckas. You can't sell the masses Folgers Intant coffee when they've experienced StarBucks. The damage is already done.
The best move for the NBA now, is to build on the team concept set forth by the Pistons, and just accept the fact that MJ was an Anomoly, a Neo, who entered the league to amaze and inspire a generation (or 2
.I recently picked up NBA 2K for $7.00 for Gamecube. In it, Sega has created an AMAZING model of MJ (he looks based off of his 1998 likeness). He's on the Wizards, but you can trade him back to the Bulls, or even MIAMI
THIS is how I'll now enjoy MJ's performances (and, of course, the oldschool tapes and videos). Every NBA thread, no matter the time of year, ALWAYS comes back to what matters most it seems 
Ninja Scooter
Member
Kcerrid 31 said:The best move for the NBA now, is to build on the team concept set forth by the Pistons, and just accept the fact that MJ was an Anomoly, a Neo, who entered the league to amaze and inspire a generation (or 2
so true. There will never be another Magic Johnson.
Ninja Scooter said:
Dude, you're...odd.
I mean, Magic would definitely be in my "top 5" ever list, but although he was competent offensively and a phenomenal playmaker, he was a non-factor on the defensive end. For that reason alone, he'll always stand below Jordan (ditto for Bird, another of my top 5). Still, it's amazing when you realize that Johnson and Bird managed to become top 5 all-time in most people's eyes by playing only one end of the court-- they were that good, and that clutch.
But Magic > MJ? That's a dubious proposition at best...
The 250+ career triple-doubles that Magic had (which will never be equaled, especially now that Grant Hill's career is over
), his 5 championships and 9 Finals appearances, and his career 11.2 assist per game average-- the highest in NBA hitory-- are his greatest individual accomplishments, imo.Ninja Scooter
Member
its NINE finals appearances. And he played with HIV for crissakes. HIV!!!! Magic=GOAT.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Guzim said:
The Magic Hour was hilarious. They should have put it on Comedy Central without telling him, it would have been a huge hit.
Ninja Scooter said:
:lol
There is a lot of truth to this though, even though you were joking. There are so many guys out there that have games similar to MJ, but I wonder if we will ever see anyone who could do what Magic could do? Best offensive player ever imho, he could make an all star out of anyone. NOT the best scorer, that is something else, and Wilt was the best scorer and the most dominant ever. I am of course a blatant Jordan hater so the only thing I give him is the most 'popular' ever, and probably (as of now) the best 2 guard ever.
As for there never being anyone to replace MJ?
There is another.
(Insert Yoda's vision of the future 5 years from now......)
Shinobi said:
He isn't as good of a passer as Johnson, though on the upside he is way more athletic that Johnson was. Then again, maybe this isn't a fair comparison as Lebron isn't allowed to run the break (as no one except the Kings plays this way anymore), and that was how Johnson used to get a lot of easy points and assists back in the day.
Ninja Scooter said:
Duly noted; my post has been edited.
And bionic, Kobe has to distinguish himself from his contemporaries before we can start comparing him to someone like Jordan. Kobe has never been number one on the power (value) rankings; here are their respective rankings on the value charts:
Jordan: (1985) 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3 (1998)
Kobe: 4, 3, 2 (prior to the past 3 seasons, he never cracked the top ten)
So maybe we'll talk in about 6-8 years, ok? Assuming Kobe can start ranking #1 on the value rankings, that is.
No other guard has ever finished first on those rankings even once, by the way...besides Jordan, who did it six times.As for Magic being the "best offensive player ever", well, that's pretty questionable. How do you measure it? By all current statistical analyses, Jordan is the most dominant offensive player since Chamberlain. Let's say Magic averaged 20 points and 11 assists-- he thus accounts for 42 points per game. Jordan averages 32 points and 6 assists, for a total of 44 points (based on his pre-Washington career averages).
You say that Johnson could "make anyone an all-star"-- but is that really true? Who were the all-stars on those Laker teams? Magic, Worthy, and Kareem, as far as I know. Kareem was already regarded as one of the best players ever before Magic was drafted, and Worthy was highly-touted coming out of college and had phenomenal offensive skills that would have allowed him to flourish in any system, with any group of players around him. Magic certainly made players better, but he didn't "make" them all-stars imo.
Jordan, however, can lay claim to creating (as in "training and compelling them to become better") one all-star almost singlehandedly: Scottie Pippen.
Seemingly almost everyone on the Lakers was an all star in the 80s for at least a year (except Kurt Rambis). I am too lazy to look it up though, but I have 8 track audio tapes to back up what I am saying (this was the technology of choice in the late 70s to early 80s). I granted you that Jordan was undoubtedly a better scorer then Johnson, but Magic made EVERYONE on his team better, much like a Tim Duncan or Jason Kidd, but to a greater degree. God it is hard to believe that the guy who came up with the current Goon tactics in the NBA was also given credit for inventing Showtime (Riley). It all depends on what you put the emphasis on, Magic's efforts led to his team being the highest scoring team of his entire era, Pippen pretty much ran the offense for the Bulls while MJ was there to bail them out when they needed it.
Your one example of Jordan making a player better was Pippen, the difference is that Magic made his teammates better with his awesome court vision (maybe the best ever) and his unselfishness, while Jordan just bitchslapped his teammates into submission.
Your one example of Jordan making a player better was Pippen, the difference is that Magic made his teammates better with his awesome court vision (maybe the best ever) and his unselfishness, while Jordan just bitchslapped his teammates into submission.
DCX
DCX
"As for Magic being the "best offensive player ever", well, that's pretty questionable. How do you measure it? By all current statistical analyses, Jordan is the most dominant offensive player since Chamberlain. Let's say Magic averaged 20 points and 11 assists-- he thus accounts for 42 points per game. Jordan averages 32 points and 6 assists, for a total of 44 points (based on his pre-Washington career averages)."
Well using this argument Oscar Robertson best them both. 25.7ppg 9.5 asts Total=47 points.
DCX
Well using this argument Oscar Robertson best them both. 25.7ppg 9.5 asts Total=47 points.
DCX
DCX
DCX
Yes, and the only one who will ever! Represent Cincy, i'm a Bearcat fanbionic77 said:
What's amazing is he missed a tripple double a few years too.NBA Regular Season
(* led league; ** tied for league lead)
Year Team G Min. FGM FGA Pct. FTM FTA Pct. Reb. Ast. PF D Pts. RPG APG PPG
60-61 Cincinnati 71 3012 756 1600 .473 653 794 .822 716 *690 219 3 2165 10.1 *9.7 30.5
61-62 Cincinnati 79 3503 866 1810 .478 700 872 .803 985 *899 258 1 2432 12.5 *11.4 30.8
62-63 Cincinnati 80 3521 825 1593 .518 614 758 .810 835 758 293 1 2264 10.4 9.5 28.3
63-64 Cincinnati 79 3559 840 1740 .483 *800 938 *.853 783 *868 280 3 2480 9.9 *11.0 31.4
64-65 Cincinnati 75 3421 807 1681 .480 *665 793 .839 674 *861 205 2 2279 9.0 *11.5 30.4
65-66 Cincinnati 76 3493 818 1723 .475 742 881 .842 586 *847 227 1 2378 7.7 *11.1 31.3
66-67 Cincinnati 79 3468 838 1699 .493 736 843 .873 486 845 226 2 2412 6.2 *10.7 30.5
67-68 Cincinnati 65 2765 660 1321 .500 *576 660 *.873 391 633 199 2 1896 6.0 *9.7 *29.2
68-69 Cincinnati 79 3461 656 1351 .486 *643 767 .838 502 *772 231 2 1955 6.4 *9.8 24.7
69-70 Cincinnati 69 2865 647 1267 .511 454 561 .809 422 558 175 1 1748 6.1 8.1 25.3
70-71 Milwaukee 81 3194 592 1193 .496 385 453 .850 462 668 203 0 1569 5.7 8.2 19.4
71-72 Milwaukee 64 2390 419 887 .472 276 330 .836 323 491 116 0 1114 5.0 7.7 17.4
72-73 Milwaukee 73 2737 446 983 .454 238 281 .847 360 551 167 0 1130 4.9 7.5 15.5
Year Team G Min. FGM FGA Pct. FTM FTA Pct. Off. Def. Tot. Ast. St. Blk. TO Pts. RPG APG PPG
73-74 Mil. 70 2477 338 772 .438 212 254 .835 71 208 279 446 77 4.0 ... 888 4 6.4 12.7
Totals 1040 43866 9508 19620 .485 7694 9185 .838 ... ... 7804 9887 77 4.0 ... 26710 7.5 9.5 25.7
Three-point field goals: 1974-75, 0-9 (.000). 1975-76, 2-9 (.222)
DCX
Wow, it blows my mind that anyone could average a triple double over an entire season. Way more impressive statistically then anything I can think of. The only thing that comes close is 100 points in a single game. And I find the triple double season way more impressive personally.
DCX
DCX
Probably one of the most under-rated athletes EVER in sports. To do what he has done and no one really know about him...i mean come on he has to be IMO the best guard to ever play. The average a triple double and miss it 4 other times by a few % points, unheard of and now a days we got guys trying to get triple double by faking it...disgusting.bionic77 said:
DCX
DMczaf said:How can you hate Jordan, bionic? Magic is his friend!
Back in their early 90s Doo-Wop days!
:lol
I don't really hate Jordan, but the way people obsess over that old timer gets on my nerves sometimes. I am sure you all feel the same way when Laker fans (and the bandwagoners) go apeshit after a Lakers win or loss.
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