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MasterCornholio
Member
ED = ElectroDemon
Basically called the site owner a cunt if I'm not wrong. Which I don't see you doing.
ethomaz
Banned
I don't remember him to be fair.
I can be biased but I don't believe I ever insulted anybody in this forum or any other to be fair.
plushyp
Member
You all can continue the discussion in the Meta thread without fear of mods reprimanding you:
www.neogaf.com
Meta GAF |ON| Gaf on Gaf
Recently I was viewing the bans list, and what do you know, our good friend Skyn3t has received his final ban. Often times I've wanted to discuss a recent ban, and typically I would just go to the thread containing the last post by the user in question. I figured we could probably use a thread...
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Bladed Thesis
Member
Totally agree. The thread is almost unbearable now.Thanks, mate. I can only say that the early period of me being in that speculation thread was much more tolerant from both teams, and much more fun. Now, even though some say it's boring and moving in circles, many have contributed a lot in a very deep way technically and I personally learned a lot, one of them isethomaz . Both sides seem to be too sensitive lately, more like walking into a report-minefield.
Overall, I feel sorry for the mods for the extra work they have to go through and evaluating each report/incident. I hope both sides get more tolerant. Maybe mods/members can come to a mutual agreement for a more friendly atmosphere? Or it might be wishful thinking.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Even chilled members are getting somehow hostile there lately. Probably this pandemic with boredom retention is affecting it. It was much more enjoyable, but there are still many knowledgeable members around that enrich the discussion.
MasterCornholio
Member
Oh no I was saying that it's wrong to compare you to him.
MetalAlien
Banned
MHK!
The Mad Draklor
Member
So about that post of mine that got removed, it was made to satirize people who are quick to call others Xbots. However, I got the message and I'll avoid saying "Xbot" and make my point across differently from now on.
bronk
Banned
Xbot360 is cool though because it's a term of endearment.
Endless Fluff
Banned
Question: what's with the double standard going on? You ban people left and right for calling others fanboys, yet you have very colorful ban messages like "It can't support your bloated, neckbeard warrior body".
So mods are allowed to call others fanboys and other crap while banning them, yet you ban people who call others fanboys. What the fuck is up with that?
Also, was there an announcement for the new rules? Because
So mods are allowed to call others fanboys and other crap while banning them, yet you ban people who call others fanboys. What the fuck is up with that?
Also, was there an announcement for the new rules? Because
Where has this been made "pretty clear"? Who made it clear?
-Arcadia-
Banned
I mean, I wouldn’t know, but I feel like the distinction for fanboy here is:
Scenario 1: Someone makes a truly awful post/thread, gets called a fanboy, nobody gets banned
Scenario 2: Someone makes a normal post/thread, gets called a fanboy by a troublemaker, person gets banned
Mod usage of fanboy would fall under Scenario 1.
But again, I don’t know. That’s just how I would assume things work.
The Pony/Xbot stuff just starts trouble no matter what, 99.9% of the time is blatant console warring, and it’s not a surprise to see it go.
nush
Gold Member
Terms and conditions you signed up for,
"Do not post disingenuously, or in an inflammatory manner for the sole purpose of upsetting others."
Specifically point II. So if you are using the term Xbot or Sonypony you are just saying that to dismiss and antagonize somebody's opinion.
Mista
Banned
Listen fluff, I like you and all but you being clueless isn’t our problem. There’s a pinned thread in the gaming section. Read it please
Also ban messages mocking the fanboys are awesome. Lighten up
Edit: I apologise it isn’t pinned. Here it is
So it begins, the great console battle of our time (moderation policy annex)
Hey Gaffers (old and new), It can't have escaped anyone's attention, that there have been some recent updates on console power, technology and approaches. Some threads have derailed into infighting pretty quickly but a larger number are consistently at the edge of being completely unreadable...
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Endless Fluff
Banned
Thanks, this is what I was missing. I tried to search the forums before asking, but finding this thread without any hint on what to look for seemed impossible. Hence I asked if I missed something. It should be pinned (it maybe even was), or it should be in the FAQ section, which is were I was looking for any changes.Edit: I apologise it isn’t pinned. Here it is
So it begins, the great console battle of our time (moderation policy annex)
Hey Gaffers (old and new), It can't have escaped anyone's attention, that there have been some recent updates on console power, technology and approaches. Some threads have derailed into infighting pretty quickly but a larger number are consistently at the edge of being completely unreadable...
Mista
Banned
No problem at all. Glad I could help
Papa
Banned
Another fine example of a modern German male
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Honest question:
Do perceived "anti-PS5" posts get reported at a much higher rate than perceived "anti-XsX" posts? Or is it pretty even?
Do perceived "anti-PS5" posts get reported at a much higher rate than perceived "anti-XsX" posts? Or is it pretty even?
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I have a related question, what is report-worthy when it comes to system wars? Obviously we can discuss the specs of each console, our preferences, etc. but when does it become a problem?
Mista
Banned
Fighting and derailing is enough I believe
The Bloody-Nine
Member
First thing I check when I log on is the ban page.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
#MeToo. And I check it several times throughout the day in case there are any fresh award-winning Mod comments.
Does that make me an awful person? Sometimes I feel like I'm a vulture just waiting for someone to get banned so I can have a good laugh at the Mod comments?
Slings and Arrows
Banned
I enjoy the ban messages but we as a community need to be weary of elevating grandstanding to Bish levels. It's a slippy slope that ends in mods banning people for nothing, just to appease the mouth-frothing idiots who call for more bans.
The other concern is the system wars bannings. Banning trolls is fine but when does trolling become banter? When does calling an xbox enthusiast and 'xbot' go from playful jiving to hatred?
I don't envy the mods having to make that distinction, as its a tough call to make.
What can we as users do to stop this place from becoming a mental asylum, or worse, a walled-off community?
The other concern is the system wars bannings. Banning trolls is fine but when does trolling become banter? When does calling an xbox enthusiast and 'xbot' go from playful jiving to hatred?
I don't envy the mods having to make that distinction, as its a tough call to make.
What can we as users do to stop this place from becoming a mental asylum, or worse, a walled-off community?
Papa
Banned
Something good that EL did in the rebuild was ensure that mods (or at least mod accounts) are separate to regular community members to avoid that conflict of interest. I agree with you, but I think the current system is better inoculated against that than before.
Endless Fluff
Banned
I think people seem to completely misunderstand my problem.
nush
has posted the rules, but the mods stand above the rules when they're allowed to insult other users with the ban messages.
Like, am I allowed to call
Fun Fanboy
a fat neckbeard when or if he comes back? Am I allowed to call console warriors fat neckbeards as a replacement for xbot or sony pony? I mean, the mods do it, why should I not be allowed to do it as well? Which insults are okay? Can I call
Papa
a cunt? /edit this is all rhetoric, I know I can't do any of that. My issue is that mods are doing it with ban messages.
The ban messages are childish and they are confusing when people are getting banned for less like calling someone a fanboy.
bloated neckbeard warrior
fanboy
nush
has posted the rules, but the mods stand above the rules when they're allowed to insult other users with the ban messages.Like, am I allowed to call
Fun Fanboy
a fat neckbeard when or if he comes back? Am I allowed to call console warriors fat neckbeards as a replacement for xbot or sony pony? I mean, the mods do it, why should I not be allowed to do it as well? Which insults are okay? Can I call
Papa
a cunt? /edit this is all rhetoric, I know I can't do any of that. My issue is that mods are doing it with ban messages.The ban messages are childish and they are confusing when people are getting banned for less like calling someone a fanboy.
bloated neckbeard warrior
fanboy
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The Mad Draklor
Member
It's probably that sarcasm doesn't come across well on the internet. I made a post meant to satirize certain TLOU fans who immediately accuse people who were turned off by the leaked TLOU2 plotline as Xbots. However, the mods thought that was console warring and removed it.
Papa
Banned
I think people seem to completely misunderstand my problem.
Like, am I allowed to call
The ban messages are childish and they are confusing when people are getting banned for less like calling someone a fanboy.
bloated neckbeard warrior
fanboy
Im in ur head u filthy kraut
Endless Fluff
Banned
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I think people seem to completely misunderstand my problem.
Like, am I allowed to call
The ban messages are childish and they are confusing when people are getting banned for less like calling someone a fanboy.
bloated neckbeard warrior
fanboy
Have you not seen what they allow people to get away with in this thread after a fresh ban compared to your normal community interactions?
I personally think they allow for containment areas by design. I could be wrong, but it seems that way, and that is a good thing for a more open community.
nush
Gold Member
Anyway quit trying to lawyer your way around the rules, context, nuance and common sense should apply if you have them.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
Yeah, my only (expired) warning was a comment I made that was meant to be sarcastic.
It was stickied but as always we have to rotate them in and out as we don't like to have too many. At the moment it has been superseded by the ban message for TLOU II spoilers, as we felt although we had cross posted in many threads, we needed a more visible statement as well to avoid a 'gotcha!'. Depending on how things go we may put it back into rotation. Things seem to have calmed down a little, probably due to repeat troublemakers being on hiatus and probably due to the thirst to discuss identity politics issues that are suddenly in the limelight.
It really varies. Usually it goes back and forth with various announcements and current affairs/news. Since we got a lot more visible and made several posts with a bit more finality in them, people are responding when obvious derails take place around those terms. We still just tend to delete/edit or nudge when a user hasn't had any previous warnings so they get on message going forward. If they continue, then we establish the pattern and more intrusive sanctions are applied, like reply bans and eventually site bans.
The ban messages have a meta behind them in those cases - deliberately made to draw attention to the 'banned' behaviour. For regular posters or people who are genuine but just overstepped their mark, we tend to be to the point. For obvious trolls (or those who repeatedly wear out the good will of mods reaching out to them and giving them multiple chances), the messages can be more acerbic. There's only one that falls into this category on the entire first ban page from a quick scan. Let us just say, you have to reach a certain level or have an interesting post history/participation level to earn those messages.
But, for clarity, if you are banned there is a chance you will get a colourful ban message. Just as you can enter a lot of threads and there also be a colourful exchange between posters. We're not here to shine our light across the land to touch lesser mortals, nor do we intend to moderate in a fashion where we are the 'know-it-alls' on every topic. We're here to 'moderate' discussion, and part of that moderation involves allowing for heated exchanges and infrequent frustrated insults/expletives where people genuinely just overstep their good nature. But there is a threshold when it derails cross thread or becomes an agenda to force into every thread and cause fighting. Some posters need a dose of reality and need to be made explicitly aware that based on history and audit logs, they are walking a very tight line, or in certain cases flew too close to the sun.
The ban message will also generally reflect the posters input and mirror the respect they treat the rest of the community with, and how genuine their input it. It will also (most times) call back to why they are being banned. If you're acting like an asshole, then you don't get the privilege of hiding behind appeals of 'high ground', and you have to reap what you sow. This extends onto posts and members as well. If a member is being provoked and then reported we will usually side with the non-baiter who just let frustration bubble over. Fortunately the ban messages are not targeted at you, so you can safely ignore them. You've shared your opinion and we respect it, but it won't be starting a movement for change etc.
Generally people aren't getting banned for technical discussion. Some threads are being further scrutinised by certain users as they are dropping their technical interpretation, which is different to conclusion drawn by supporting evidence. These aren't meant to be over bearing, but it's meant to make users more responsible in their statements. Ok - I am saying this is a fact. What support that fact, who supports that fact, how have I arrived at that calculation, why have I arrived at that conclusion, what is being disputed etc. As guidance, if the topic is discussing a breakdown of technical nature, or is a thread that is just more of a round table discussion to hypothesise or play devil's advocate then we will protect it more from those type of driveby's. Some people do just follow these threads for information, and a lot of reports come from names that aren't even active posters in the thread but fed up individuals needing to wade through the 'fat' and 'rind' to get to the meat and sustenance of the debate.
Usually driveby posts along the lines of 'xbots jealous', 'ponies hating' are going to earn a reply ban, at least. And of course, if you have previous unexpired warnings (usually 2 but depends on severity/spam level), then it will be a ban. Neo members (or absent members suddenly returning), to immediately go into the nextGen thread and troll with terms like Ponies, xbots and 9.2TF will have less leeway and earn a ban right away to establish expectations and prevent copycats. Most forums have censoring features built into them but it becomes an overhead and they can be over zealous solutions for passing problems. Language is so dynamic, it is very difficult to police, especially when certain phrases go in and out of vogue within a twitter thread.
Other threads run more on frontier law. Meme threads and the like will expect users to have a certain thickness to their skin and unless extreme guidelines are being broken (slurs, nudity, porn), then you'll be expected to ignore it. Some posters have had a post deleted in the last couple of days with a notification to say drop the terminology that gets everyone het up and riled as an example. We think most users know what type of posts can be construed as console warring, or when they are trying to deliberately antagonise users. We also respect the battle of users trying to shift those boundaries, or looking for technicalities in something written down they can recite to the letter, and claim ambiguity to troll. Unfortunately, we work on a more informal level. We don't want members being lawyers looking for interpretative loopholes, because it just forms a very unhealthy relationship.
i) If you have a point make it, that means knowing when you've made it and when it becomes a pattern of ignoring replies and issuing the same question
ii) if you're in a heated debate that's genuine know when to park it and move on
iii) if you're involved in a personal feud/fight know when to park or mods will intercede
iv) if you're deliberately antagonising/baiting users expect warnings/reply bans
v) if you ignore reply bans/warnings expect a ban
We find the community does a decent enough job of running itself, with a some steering and correction at times. Forums - at times - contain their own little character arcs and underlying drama's as well. Again this is where we apply adaptive moderation. Certain interactions between a subset of individuals fall into this scope - these are the ones where probably new members will send a report in, but the mods are either aware of the underlying meta or the historical intricacies that need more sensitive and sensible moderation. Moderation isn't a science, and it can be frustrating in an age where google can provide very specific answers within seconds, that we still have inconsistency due to context, interpetation and adaptability. The only thing we can say in response is that we are truly independent, everything is fair game if the case is compelling enough, and we will do our best to allow even the most contentious discussions take place as long as they are rooted in genuine curiosity. We only really pull the trigger when we really have to, but are also open to appeals and reducing punitive measures if users are contrite and own their problems.
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I think it is kind of a shame that
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
's thoughtful thread about total overall system bandwidth got closed. It seemed to objectively outline a strength of both the PS5 and also a strength of the XsX. I guess I don't fully understand what made it different than
P
psorcerer
's SSD thread that was also posted yesterday and is still going...
Not trying to be antagonistic and this definitely isn't a "mod callout,' staff of NeoGAF is amazing, truly. Just kinda confused on this case...
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
's thoughtful thread about total overall system bandwidth got closed. It seemed to objectively outline a strength of both the PS5 and also a strength of the XsX. I guess I don't fully understand what made it different than
P
psorcerer
's SSD thread that was also posted yesterday and is still going...Not trying to be antagonistic and this definitely isn't a "mod callout,' staff of NeoGAF is amazing, truly. Just kinda confused on this case...
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I think it is kind of a shame that
Not trying to be antagonistic and this definitely isn't a "mod callout,' staff of NeoGAF is amazing, truly. Just kinda confused on this case...
I'm more confused why thicc asked about it in the TLOU 2 spoiler thread, lol, but yeah would also like an answer.
That user has been sent a very specific message with clear details in. If they wish to share it with you it is up to them. There is also a reason why they have been sent those details and guidelines which we know they understand. There have already been interactions with this user about other concerns that were flagged as well regarding account use. They are well aware of the situation. Threads which are made in the same vein will be subsequently closed and if the guidance is ignored, culminate in further sanctions as well.
I would suggest you read the thread you reference and the post about bandwidth and identify the main differences between them, considering they are both focused on a technology and not a platform and meant to be objective.
I would suggest you read the thread you reference and the post about bandwidth and identify the main differences between them, considering they are both focused on a technology and not a platform and meant to be objective.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Unfortunately I'm not enough of a tech head to understand why this thread is a problem due to something about bandwidth but the dozens of others speculating on and extolling the alleged virtues and capabilities of the PS5 SSD are fine.
I wish I were more technically inclined because in my ignorance I find this discouraging.
I do still love my ban message though.
Slings and Arrows
Banned
I read this as:
"this user has information that is/could potentially be, under NDA from one or more sources close to [Insert company name here]. He's skirting on the edges of NDA infringement and we don't want neogaf caught up in the legal fuddle"
I'm not arsed either way, as it is not my place, i'm not a mod. I just found it interesting
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Sadly, it's nothing as exciting as that. Without going into specifics, it was closed temporarily and we asked the user to clarify some things - to the readers of the post, not the mods. We are currently engaged with the user and we expect it to be open again at some point, they are just pressed for time to produce said update.
Ikutachi
Member
I feel a bit paranoid doing it. Like if my number of times visited there is being tracked and getting a taste of a ban in jest after X times.
MasterCornholio
Member
I don't think there's anything wrong with learning from other people's mistakes.
nush
Gold Member
That
captainraincoat
ban is off.
It's not "Bait" to point out somebody's logical fallacy.
How can a console be designed as a response to another console that's not yet been revealed? You've got a false positive here guys.
(I'm platform agnostic and am also tired of console warriors FYI)
captainraincoat
ban is off.
It's not "Bait" to point out somebody's logical fallacy.
How can a console be designed as a response to another console that's not yet been revealed? You've got a false positive here guys.
(I'm platform agnostic and am also tired of console warriors FYI)
nush
- The key here on the ban message is 'The usual '9TF' console warrior nonsense. [ ]....post is obviously meant to antagonise.'
captainraincoat
can make their appeal of why they are dropping the '9TF' argument other console warriors are known to use, and have also been banned for. Without that qualifier the post is fine. With it, it's just there to antagonise people. If you can provide the confirmation that the console is in fact 9TF (by which we mean runs at a majority of the time at 9TF as per the insinuation) and not 10.28TF as detailed in the release materials, then we can roll back now. Until then the onus is on
captainraincoat
to provide that evidence via the appeal address. Or alternatively justify what the purpose of dropping that statement was. It should be relatively easily to clear up.The bait comment was in response to baiting other posters (probably Playstation owners) to come in and go through the same cyclical argument of 9TF, it's not 9TF etc. We see no reason this is not the case here. It did not need to be mentioned to make the underlying point. But we are open to being convinced otherwise.
EDIT: In fact, I will lift the ban, I will message
captainraincoat
directly and delete the post. They have no priors so I'm sure they will be receptive to this action instead.
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Grand Theft Scratchy
Banned
Reading through the ban list today and I'm thinking some people, maybe most of them, just don't give a shit about warnings. Granted, a week ban is probably nothing depending on your activity but it's only going to get longer with subsequent bans. Think before you post.
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Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
For some people, the ban is their perceived version of the warning, so you just gotta deal with them accordingly. They can't visualize consequences or the ramifications of those consequences until it actually happens to them.
Papa
Banned
cough cough brap
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yup, That's why temp bans and long temp bans should be employed more than perms.
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