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NeoGAF FFXI FAQ/Starter topic Redux
- Thread starter Shouta
- Start date
Ploid 3.0
Member
lol yea, I'm getting Shouta, or Xaerus to solo that thing for me ^ ^;
Edit: This is a cool list. Ror was a RDM
, Xae as a RDM - N/A Unpossible, Ferrio was a THF too? lol. Nice stuff.
http://www.video-source.com/rugalz/ga_ffxi/wiki.pl?GA_FFXI
Edit: This is a cool list. Ror was a RDM
, Xae as a RDM - N/A Unpossible, Ferrio was a THF too? lol. Nice stuff.http://www.video-source.com/rugalz/ga_ffxi/wiki.pl?GA_FFXI
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Yes, you can beat shadowlord before 60, but the point was, most people have no chance of getting past shadowlord before lvl 60 unless they are elached through, or are a 50+ mage.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I cant see it being done with 6. I've only done it with 18 people, and we had no problems (only had one death because we wern't expecting Doom to be cast). Do a few shouts in Tavnazia Stronghold for more members, should not be hard to find people who want to go. I've never done it with less, so it might be possible, but I'd say bring at least 12.
You didn't know? :\Ploid 3.0 said:lol yea, I'm getting Shouta, or Xaerus to solo that thing for me ^ ^;
Edit: This is a cool list. Ror was a RDM
http://www.video-source.com/rugalz/ga_ffxi/wiki.pl?GA_FFXI
That's what I was until a month or so after the ps2 release. T_T
Ploid 3.0 said:lol I pumped so much of my gil into smithing before I was even level 30. Those crafts eat gil like mad, unless you farm everything. That would just make it eat time
41 to 52 cost me over 1 million gil and I lost at least 300k in gil.
Trust me, nothing compares to Goldsmithing for costs. I feel sick even thinking about it.
Don't do Goldsmithing! It's evil!!
On a happy note, 10k guild points away from the glasses
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
Hmm, calling me lucky for winning the proms.. yeah, maybe a little especially when we got to reorganize Holla but I busted my ass all week on those and thats all I did all that weekend and spent at least 125k. But we farmed up our anima and all that other stuff. :/ Only "suck" player we had was that blm/smn that was puppydogging us. I had fun and would love to get it so we can all do PM2 sometime.. Not sure what Im saying except damn! Dem was such our bitch eh, Ploid? Dunno I like the new stuff, but i expect more.
Anyways, linkshell's been empty and don't know where to say it but a few Af's and a few more levels and we can do ZM 4 if you want me. Wait for meee!
Dunno I like the new stuff, but i expect more.Anyways, linkshell's been empty and don't know where to say it but a few Af's and a few more levels and we can do ZM 4 if you want me.
Wait for meee!
Shouta
Member
Except there's a difference between the design of Ninja Gaiden and Final Fantasy XI.
Ninja Gaiden is a tough but fair game where all the options have plausibly usability. There is no one way to do it.
The Promyvion battles (and the Emptiness itself) for Chains of Promathia are poorly designed because they force the usage of only certain classes for achieving victory. They made nearly every other class more or less useless in the battle no matter how much stat tweaking there is going on. Making all but two classes useless is the sign of a poorly designed battle. I shouldn't need to have a RNG OR a SMN to be able to achieve victory in these battles. Perhaps the specific items (like the animas or whatever they're called. I forgot at the moment) but classes should not be a force requisite to achieving victory.
Then again, I don't expect you to know about good design =b.
Ninja Gaiden is a tough but fair game where all the options have plausibly usability. There is no one way to do it.
The Promyvion battles (and the Emptiness itself) for Chains of Promathia are poorly designed because they force the usage of only certain classes for achieving victory. They made nearly every other class more or less useless in the battle no matter how much stat tweaking there is going on. Making all but two classes useless is the sign of a poorly designed battle. I shouldn't need to have a RNG OR a SMN to be able to achieve victory in these battles. Perhaps the specific items (like the animas or whatever they're called. I forgot at the moment) but classes should not be a force requisite to achieving victory.
Then again, I don't expect you to know about good design =b.
WAR/NIN, WHM/BLM, SMN/WHM, and RNG/NIN.
As a melee job, you should have NIN or WAR leveled.
As a mage job, you should have either WHM or SMN leveled.
Getting to 15 or 30 doesn't take that long. Effort should be equated with skill for this game, and you're just not putting the required effort in. Thus, weaksauce.
As a melee job, you should have NIN or WAR leveled.
As a mage job, you should have either WHM or SMN leveled.
Getting to 15 or 30 doesn't take that long. Effort should be equated with skill for this game, and you're just not putting the required effort in. Thus, weaksauce.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
There are no useless classes for Promyvion, well, except BST, but BST isnt really designed to be used for most groups anyways. Some of the best EXP parties i've been in had a BST on duty.
It's not SE's fauly you are to impatient to go and farm the anima items to make Promyvion possible.
To be blunt, you need really good players to get by without them, and by good, I not only mean in skill, but also in that they will get the jobs needed to be done, not whine that their job is useless just because you are to lazy to farm the special items.
If using the anima still made some jobs useless, then you might have to make some adjustments. But you also have to remember, this is LVL 30.
I've been told that the Promyvion BCNM fights have not been buffed, liek the 3 BCNms after Promyvion have, so I really feel sorry for some of you when you attempt these.
It's not SE's fauly you are to impatient to go and farm the anima items to make Promyvion possible.
To be blunt, you need really good players to get by without them, and by good, I not only mean in skill, but also in that they will get the jobs needed to be done, not whine that their job is useless just because you are to lazy to farm the special items.
If using the anima still made some jobs useless, then you might have to make some adjustments. But you also have to remember, this is LVL 30.
I've been told that the Promyvion BCNM fights have not been buffed, liek the 3 BCNms after Promyvion have, so I really feel sorry for some of you when you attempt these.
just wanted to chime in that I've just started playing this game and though it seems very complex and slow, Lineage 2 is about 100X more accessible and fun. Case in point, I was attacking some bats (I told you I just started) and then some orc guy started attacking me only I couldn't switch to attack him in time so I eventually died. Is there something I'm missing?
Shouta
Member
WAR/NIN doesn't do much if any damage at all. It's there as a tank (which PLDs and NINs can do as well). WHMs are obvious. Obvious roles such as tank and healer are static anyway since they're not doing any damage. The point I was making (which should've been obvious) was where do the DDs fit in? Where do the DRKs, the SAMs, the THFs, the DRGs, the MNKs fit in? None of the other classes do much damage at all to the thing (as I've done both DRK and WAR to Promyvion-Holla and Dem) and certainly don't have the burst damage to finish the mob before they start draining the hell out of people. That leaves SMN and RNG who need to do that spurt of damage to finish the mob before it starts rampaging through people.
First off, effort does not equal skill. Just because I put my best effort into a fight with someone, it doesn't make me a skillful fighter.
I should not be required to level another job to do a mission that should be beatable by most possible party combinations that don't include two specific jobs (not specific roles). I should be able to go in there and defeat it with a DRK, DRG, PLD, THF, WHM, WHM party with some work.
I'd argue there are. My DRK did squat damage to the mob (with the exception of a little damage with Souleater on) and the DRG and THF were doing terrible damage as well. my WAR/THF did terrible damage as well with the exception of one decent Sturmwind with Mighty Strikes on (for like 230 damage, which is damn low all things considered). It certainly wasn't enough damage to overcome that last 5% though and we had Animas and were using all the items we could msuter.
A) We had Animas, 5 in fact. We still lost because no one in my second party (the DRK one) could dish enough damage to overcome that last 5% before it finally pulverized us since we were running out of energy and it was outlasting us. So there's certainly something wrong with the design there.
B) The entire idea of an item making it possible to even beat a battle reeks of poor design and neither of you have given me a valid and logical reason as to why it isn't. I can surely understand the item making it much easier for players but the items should not be a requirement to defeat it in party combinations that aren't full of two jobs. The battles should be beatable by any balanced party combination with some effort and skill. However, I can certainly deal with it since it's a convention that has been around for a long time in RPGs but it still has to be beatable by numerous combinations of classes to be acceptable. In this case, it's bordering on dumb because I know I've done the battles with Animas and still couldn't defeat them without a RNG or a SMN.
You just helped my entire argument.
If they're going to require jobs to get the battle or mission done they might as well just restrict the entire affair to just those jobs because there isn't any reason to use the other jobs. It SHOULD be beatable by any balanced party combination with some skill. It SHOULD NOT require specific jobs or specific party configurations to complete or require a special item to make any other class useful. It is poor design to forsake other jobs that have been put into the game to be played and require them to have a specific item to be useful.
This is also a poor design choice as others have pointed out. Limited options and limited abilities make the battle too restrictive in both design and possibilities for players.
At any rate, you two still need to give me legitimate reason why this shit isn't poorly designed because all of the stuff you've posted is just you guys bending over and taking the will of the FFXI Dev team and their poor choices.
Shouta
Member
max: You can switch manually by hitting the switch target button and then using the target selector button to select the enemy. Hit the confirm key to switch in mid-battle. You can also auto-switch enemies by positioning yourself so you face the enemy that has attacked you. After defeating your current target, you will automatically switch to the next viable target aimed at you.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Well, a few things
One getting players needed to get job done is 1 in reference to many players out htere who have more than one job at level 30, and 2, being able to get a party together to compliment strengths and weaknesses of certain jobs.
AS for your second fight, it's square's fault you didnt bring enough DMG to get through a second time?
One getting players needed to get job done is 1 in reference to many players out htere who have more than one job at level 30, and 2, being able to get a party together to compliment strengths and weaknesses of certain jobs.
AS for your second fight, it's square's fault you didnt bring enough DMG to get through a second time?
Shouta
Member
The DDs themselves do fine damage, it's the mob defense/VIT rating that is screwing them. With Berserk and Meatkabobs I'm still hitting terrible low with my Gaxe (in the case of WAR/THF). The mob abilities aren't much of a concern, it's the fact that the DDs other than RNG do poor damage in general to the mob. Reduce the DEF or VIT of the mob some so all the major DD classes can hit for respectable damage and they become feasible in the battle.
I wasn't sure what the heck you're saying in the first part.
Actually, this is completly your own fault.
That move he does, there's two stages to it. It either absorbs your buffs, or if you have no buffs, it absorbs HP. So an experienced player would have the WHM spamming his weakest "-ga" buffs on all the melees while popping yagudo drinks and maybe even ethers. The tank (WAR/NIN is best) should have been popping Hi-Potions.
Weaksauce.
As for your complaining of jobs, the fact is RNG and SMN are just always a better choice than all the other jobs for one-time BCNM deals. This isn't just a "problem" in COP, it's a problem in all missions. It's a fact that a RNG would outclass any other DD in every situation for DDing, no matter the level.
Hell, if we get down to it, most of those damage dealing classes are basically "well we need someone for the ranger to renkei with".
You shouldn't be complaining about this in COP, you should be complaining about this in the entire game.
While you're at it, why don't you start complaining about the neccessity of Bard's in pre-Sleepga 2 multi-mob BCNM's? or the million other examples of neccessary jobs/jobs outclassing other jobs.
Ploid 3.0
Member
On Prom Dem I had NIN/WAR, DRK/WAR, PLD/WAR, WHM/BLM, BLM/WHM and SUM/WHM. We were doing next to no dmg lol. I switched to unloading shurikens into it and letting the PLD take tank when my utsusemi was down. It was a looooong fight and Dem is said to be the easiest. When I saw how little DMG we were doing I looked at the PLD, and DRK, and I thought to myself "We have no chance". That PLD 2hr at the last minute was a big help. Pure luck. I could only watch them try to control things from death row after being killed.
That's the thing about FFXI that shits me terribly.
Alot of the game is quite well put together.
But at the same time, alot of the game is so ill thought out, that you think the designers had a hate for their fans.
Why do they keep playing? Well they're many reasons to keep playing despite poor design. But some design choices are so infuriating that a good amount of players will quit over them.
Luckily for square, most of those problems exist at endgame and will have milked a decent amount out of you before you quit.
Alot of the game is quite well put together.
But at the same time, alot of the game is so ill thought out, that you think the designers had a hate for their fans.
Why do they keep playing? Well they're many reasons to keep playing despite poor design. But some design choices are so infuriating that a good amount of players will quit over them.
Luckily for square, most of those problems exist at endgame and will have milked a decent amount out of you before you quit.
Shouta
Member
The mob outlasted us anyway. It rapidly did this, draining our buffs and then our HP quickly. Even with drinks they weren't able to keep up. Top it with the fact none of us could do enough of a spurt of damage to cause it to be finished with and it was a losing battle. It really doesn't matter how many buffs you can keep up unless you can deal that last spurt hard enough and with us doing such low damage, it's not terribly feasible when it kicks it into overdrive.
SMN wasn't required for any of the BCNM fights I have done. RNGs are an obvious point and I don't dispute their strengths but the problem is making them the ONLY class to be able to do damage. I don't care if they can out DD other classes, I care that they're the only class that CAN DD.
There's a difference between being the only class that can do it and being the only class ALLOWED to do it. BRDs and BLMs have Sleepga, they're the only classes that can do it because they're designed to do it. RNGs are damage-dealers but they've become exclusive damage-dealers because of poor design choices to make other damage dealing classes not as useful (or outright useless). So, I'm not going to argue about BRDs. That situation is inherently different from the one RNGs and other DDS are in.
I honestly don't know why the idiots at Square did some of these design choices. They're terribly moronic most of the time and totally counterproductive to the game.
There are a few ways of fixing it without changing how the entire game works but I don't think anyone will listen or bother to listen to what I have to say.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
The records have been reset with the server updates/resets, so nex titm eyou need to go back and set them again
Shouta
Member
Haha, poor RNGs vs Bones.
The only reason RNGs get a DMG advantage is because they literally shoot gil and they're unable to do much else other than shoot gil so it's not surprising they do the highest average damage in the game against all types of mobs.
What they really need to do for End game so RNGs don't dominate is adjust a few systems and plan some smart AI for HNMs. Get rid of the standard TP system for HNMs, add a better AI (so the mob uses TP attacks in a fashion that isn't spamming =x), make certain HNMs have conditions that give certain classes certain advantages, and a whole host of other things.
And who said I wasn't going to see the Promathia storyline you banana brain? =b I didn't say I wasn't going to do it, I'm just blasting the idiotic design choices from a company who really doesn't have a stellar track record =P.
The only reason RNGs get a DMG advantage is because they literally shoot gil and they're unable to do much else other than shoot gil so it's not surprising they do the highest average damage in the game against all types of mobs.
What they really need to do for End game so RNGs don't dominate is adjust a few systems and plan some smart AI for HNMs. Get rid of the standard TP system for HNMs, add a better AI (so the mob uses TP attacks in a fashion that isn't spamming =x), make certain HNMs have conditions that give certain classes certain advantages, and a whole host of other things.
And who said I wasn't going to see the Promathia storyline you banana brain? =b I didn't say I wasn't going to do it, I'm just blasting the idiotic design choices from a company who really doesn't have a stellar track record =P.
Tabris said:
I'll just find videos of the cutscenes (or have friends make them) to enjoy the story.
Anyway, I've decided that I'll be leaving FFXI. No point in playing and paying for a game I no longer enjoy. WoW sounds like a ton of fun... Open Beta starts in a few days and I'm sure I'll enjoy it. If I have a ton of fun I'll work on selling all my gear and cancel right away. Apparently I can get $250 from IGE if I have 5 million gil... a decent reward after spending so much time playing this game. (Hopefully talking about selling gil doesn't get me banned here :x)
D... Damnit Ror, I WAS gonna be a night elf. You bastard. Stop copying me.
Maybe I'll go.... Undead! Walk underwater without breathing, ha!
Yeah SoD is pretty much dead, sadly. Something about mages complaing we don't do anything... when mages are the exact reason we CAN'T do anything. Ah well.
Maybe I'll go.... Undead! Walk underwater without breathing, ha!
Yeah SoD is pretty much dead, sadly. Something about mages complaing we don't do anything... when mages are the exact reason we CAN'T do anything. Ah well.
SpiderJerusalem
Banned
...heh.
Whats funny is when I'm on during the day, pretty much all thats left is a bunch of us mages.
Bye Vep.
Whats funny is when I'm on during the day, pretty much all thats left is a bunch of us mages.
Bye Vep.
I dunno, I've been thinking of getting out of FFXI again as well. I stopped for like two months during this past spring semester, started back and was making good progress leveling and I'm up to 23WHM. However, I've been sitting in Windurst leveling cooking, only because I've been unsuccessful in finding a group to do the Sandy 2-3 mission with, so I'm basically stuck leveling cooking, which is annoying. I guess I could go back to Quifurm and level some more, but I'd really just like to get past rank 2.
It's just frustrating, and with this semester being the "finish your thesis or die trying" semester the most gaming time I'm gonna have is probably on whatever online twitch game lives the longest life (Ratchet and Clank or something).
It's just frustrating, and with this semester being the "finish your thesis or die trying" semester the most gaming time I'm gonna have is probably on whatever online twitch game lives the longest life (Ratchet and Clank or something).