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NeoGAF FFXI FAQ/Starter topic Redux
- Thread starter Shouta
- Start date
Zaptruder said:
Also just in time to eat some words! Live, from the POL viewer!
Chains of Promathia, the second FINAL FANTASY XI expansion pack, is almost here!
The following version update changes are scheduled to coincide with the commencement of services for Chains of Promathia. A great percentage of these new quests, missions, items, and other updates are related to the contents of the expansion pack.
- A new storyline will begin with the addition of Chains of Promathia to the mission menu.
- Many new areas related to the Chians of Promathia expansion pack will be opened to players. In a similar fashion to battlefields, level restrictions will be imposed in several of these areas.
- Four entirely new regions, as well as new areas in existing regions, will be added. It will be possible to perform searches within these new regions and areas.
- Many new monsters will appear in the newly added areas. For further details, please read the Chains of Promathia page found in the Compendium.
- New pieces of equipment that manifest special abilities depending on their use will be introduced.
- New escort quests will be added. It will now be possible to cancel escort quests after they have been accepted.
- Skillchain elements and magic burst effects will be added to avatar blood pact abilities. Also, the accuracy and damage of low-level blood pact abilities will be increased.
- It will be possible to check a pet's TP using the command <pettp>
- The MP cost for the white magic spell Dia II will be reduced.
- The MP cost for the black magic spells Bio and Bio II will be reduced. The effect of these spells will now be dependent on the Dark magic skill.
- The skillchain element for the dagger weapon skill Evisceration will be changed.
- The recast time for the paladin job ability Cover will be decreased from 5 minutes to 3 minutes.
- The level required for paladins to learn Raise will be reduced from 75 to 50.
- The area effect of Etude bard songs will become restricted to a single target.
- The casting time for the bard song Goddess's Hymnus will be decreased.
- The dragoon weapon skill Wheeling Thrust will be enhanced.
- Several throwing weapons will become usable by dragoons.
- The effect of the ninjutsu Utsusemi will be completely removed by area attacks.
- The range of parameters adjustable by the Merit Point system partially introduced in the previous version update will be expanded. An exclusive menu for adjusting the settings of this system will be available only when inside one's Mog House.
- Several system-related adjustments will be made to Ballista.
- A new activity called "clamming" will becoming available on the beaches of a certain area.
- Several key items have been added to the list of items available by trading guild points. These key items will make it possible to perform special type of synthesis.
- Players who have reached the craftsman level in a particular synthesis skill will be able to revoke their title, making it possible to raise another skill to this level without penalties.
- It will become possible to log into PlayOnline and go directly to the FINAL FANTASY XI main page by inserting the Chains of Promathia expansion pack disc (PlayStation 2 version), or by double-clicking the FINAL FANTASY XO shortcut (Windows version). Also, a new text command will make it possible to completely log out of FINAL FANTASY XI and PlayOnline, and exit the PlayOnline Viewer. This command will shut off the power (PlayStation 2 version), or return you to the desktop (Windows version).
Many other updates are in the final stages of testing. Further details will be announced along with the introduction of the Chains of Promathiha version update. A preliminary version update is scheduled to take place in the beginning of September, before the release of the Chains of Promathia content.
Dates for Maintenance will be announced as soon as they are decided. The preliminary version update will not contain changes that immediately affect gameplay.
In order to activate the contents of the Chains of Promathia expansion pack, it is necessary to complete the Expanded Services registration process from FINAL FANTASY XI's Content ID page using the registration code that comes with the North American expansion pack or the European All-in-One pack. Registering the expansion pack contents does not incur any additional FINAL FANTASY XI user fees.
This version update is timed to coincide with the official release of the Windows version in European territories, and the commencement of worldwide service for Japan, North America, and Europe.
It is predicted that the eight-hour time zone difference between these three areas, the influx of new players will not substantially affect the maximum number of players online simultaneously in each world.
An unexplored world awaits you in Chains of Promathia. We hope you meet new friends and enjoy the adventure, as you uncover the secret history of Vana'diel.
Best regards,
The FINAL FANTASY XI Team
- DRGs get some love according to this little blurb (which there will be more abilities and such added...they BETTER add more ><)
- Cover reduced to 3 minutes
- SMN gets tweaked
- No new love for SAMs (yet)
- Utsusemi now gets owned by normal aoe attacks (aoe TP attacks already hit through Utsusemi...now it's revoked? THat's a ton of mobs that kill Utsu now...WTF are Ninja's supposed to do now?
It will be nice to have as a backup if the WHM is killed, but it won't matter a whole lot in exp parties. The change to Cover will be a bigger improvement to the Paladin job than getting Raise earlier will. But the lvl 75 restriction for Paladins getting Raise was absolutely ridiculous, and I hope the switch means that Paladins will get a new end-game spell in the future.
Only time a good Paladin ever needs to use cover is when the Black Mage is ancient magic bursting with no Thief in the party. Ranger's can utsusemei after a Sidewinder or Slug Shot until you can gain back aggro, so you really don't need to cover them. Nothing else should get aggro from a good Paladin.
So it's not a huge deal to me.
So it's not a huge deal to me.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
lowering the raise level for PLD seems a good idea. a LVL 75 PLD is going to be hanging arround with people who would kill him if he tried to give them a raise I 
Shouta said:
Why wouldn't you just start the battle with ancient magic macro (during pull, depending on timing) > dragoon (ewww) provokes > dragoon uses weapon skill right away > thief sata renkei's > paladin provokes, flashes, turns on abilities > and the ancient magic bursts. The sata renkei will give you the hate required to hold aggro on for the ancient magic burst. Mob won't have much life left after that.
If for some reason you don't (I wear items like mermaid ring, so I have a bit more enmity), what I ask of a party is to consistently keep me at 800 hp, not above or below. So you can always Cure IV right into the battle for full.
A good Paladin shouldn't need to use Cover IF they're playing with other good players. Try not using cover when your Ranger, who's not subbing Ninja, and Dark Knight unload 15 seconds into a battle, and you can't set up a SATA with your Thief because the Dark Knight thought it would be novel to sub Red Mage instead of Warrior. If you're in a good static great for you, but otherwise you are going to find yourself using Cover for players who don't understand hate control.
I know someone is going to start mentioning level 3 renkei's for stealing hate, and yes, that will also steal hate (depending on circumstances).
Again though, proper hate management will dictate this occurs after Paladin has spiked hate as much as he can, or it's enough to kill the mob.
Again though, proper hate management will dictate this occurs after Paladin has spiked hate as much as he can, or it's enough to kill the mob.
Shouta
Member
We don't have a BLM in the static ;p. My cousin Hogashi (THF/WAR), Kintaro (MNK/WAR), Nightwing (DRG/WAR), Darkshire (WHM/BLM), myself (PLD/WAR), and a BRD/RDM named my mycousinfred make up our current static. Actually we kill ITs much quicker than the average party I've been in because Hogashi doesn't bother tricking off me. Saves time by not setting it up and we go straight for the kill instead of dancing around. Instead, he just does it off Nightwing all the time. Usually he'll pull -> I provoke/flash -> he STs off Nightwing -> I either Shield Bash, Sentinel, Cure IV, or Vorpal Blade/Spirits Within to pull it back. From there it's a fairly basic routine until they skillchain. The skillchain causes so much aggro usually that Nightwing will nab hits and a combination of him taking hits and me Cure IVing him will bring it back. The highest damage SC by those two last night hit 2200 damage on an IT Farkiller in Monastic Cavern. It's a surprise I hold aggro at all sometimes but my aggressive tanking tactics help that some.
Can't clear it since Super and High Jump have long timers and we're doing it every battle
.There IS a need to use cover but most average parties don't produce enough damage in the middle of a battle to do need it. Outside of the current static, the only time I've had issues with aggro control once or twice from 50-60. The last time I had someone stealing from me was this crazy little Taru RNG/NIN who would go Sidewinder -> Barrage -> Sidewinder back to back. Aggressive tank tactics won that battle though. Really though, I haven't been in a group with a DRG and a THF that could toss up 1600 damage skillchains in one battle and not including Normal/Jump and Normal/ST damage.
And what the heck are you guys lecturing me for, I've been playing the game longer than both of you last I checked =P.
Shouta
Member
No one cares about your NA-filled beta experience
That's like taking remedial reading and than going into advanced literature and saying you have more experience
Nice way of downplaying more experience. ;p A lot of people downplay NA "beta" experience but frankly it was a very good experience and one that allowed me to understand the full mechanics of the game way earlier than most. While most Paladins are still focusing heavily on JAs and Magic to hold aggro at 60+ I've moved on to a much more reliable and stronger way to hold it, those 3 months of play time sure helped that a lot
.Yep, Vorpal Blade accuracy is going up in parties now and I'll be able to tag it for 250+ on average again.
Shouta
Member
Oh and to be frank, a lot of Paladin aggro tactics discussed on the forums around the net aren't great for keeping the aggro and they also breed the idea that PLDs can't do anything but tank which is a load of crap to be honest.
Aggressive Tanking. Dealing damage and swinging while tanking generates more aggro than reducing damage and using JAs.
Aggressive Tanking. Dealing damage and swinging while tanking generates more aggro than reducing damage and using JAs.
Shouta
Member
I just said it above. Aggressive Tanking. DD + Tank and a combination of the two instead of all out defense.
This is my standard running around setup
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/profile_eg.html?char=25499
I have a ton of extra gear on me at all times. I carry an Assault Earring, Fang Earring, Two Tiger Rings. I also carry a Bastokan Mantle (going to get soon), a War +1 Belt, and probably will get another Chrysoberyl and Medieval collar eventually for mobs that hit too hard.
With some minor atk boosting, PLDs can do 25-50 a hit normally. This shoots down with Defender on so I avoid using it when possible (most mobs hit at the low range except for the ones our static is currently fighting which hits for 80-110+ With +22 VIT and Defender up). On top of our normal skills we use to hold aggro the swing, enmity, and damage caused by our sword is very significant and adds up quickly. While I take a little more damage than other PLDs I make up for it in aggro by doing more damage than I am taking. All the Accu and attack I have also helps when I use Vorpal blade it happens to connect for 300+ damage at 100 TP =P.
Edit: To point out a more specific example, I know a PLD (Hume too) that was totally decked out in VIT and used Defender all the time. His damage was only reduced by a small margin compared to me (based on Zvahl Coffer Demons). About 10-15 more points of damage taken by me on average. However, I was hitting for upwards of 50 damage while he would hit for 0-15 against the mobs. I literally stole aggro from him by just swinging my sword and using Vorpal Blade for 400 damage. =P.
This is my standard running around setup
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/profile_eg.html?char=25499
I have a ton of extra gear on me at all times. I carry an Assault Earring, Fang Earring, Two Tiger Rings. I also carry a Bastokan Mantle (going to get soon), a War +1 Belt, and probably will get another Chrysoberyl and Medieval collar eventually for mobs that hit too hard.
With some minor atk boosting, PLDs can do 25-50 a hit normally. This shoots down with Defender on so I avoid using it when possible (most mobs hit at the low range except for the ones our static is currently fighting which hits for 80-110+ With +22 VIT and Defender up). On top of our normal skills we use to hold aggro the swing, enmity, and damage caused by our sword is very significant and adds up quickly. While I take a little more damage than other PLDs I make up for it in aggro by doing more damage than I am taking. All the Accu and attack I have also helps when I use Vorpal blade it happens to connect for 300+ damage at 100 TP =P.
Edit: To point out a more specific example, I know a PLD (Hume too) that was totally decked out in VIT and used Defender all the time. His damage was only reduced by a small margin compared to me (based on Zvahl Coffer Demons). About 10-15 more points of damage taken by me on average. However, I was hitting for upwards of 50 damage while he would hit for 0-15 against the mobs. I literally stole aggro from him by just swinging my sword and using Vorpal Blade for 400 damage. =P.
shoplifter
Member
I take it the old LS (shield of life) is totally dead at this point? I just reactivated.
Mister Zimbu
Member
Wasn't the general consensus during the NA Beta that MNKs made great tanks?
Ploid 3.0
Member
Oh yes, I'm going the route of the awesomeness that is HOGA. I'm leveling War up to 30 for the option and to test it. I heard too many good things about his dmg and such. Using only one weapon will suck though (no more weaker faster stat loaded weapon in off hand :*( ). I already have that attack shield (+6attack) that hoga use now.
I think you're crazy, well your opinion that is.
Paladin's have two priorities.
1) Holding aggro. If you really need +ATK and +ACC to hold aggro consistently, then something is wrong there.
2) Lessening damage. More Vitality, more HP and more Defense are all that should matter to a Paladin if you're holding aggro through the entire fight. Defender, Sentinal, Rampart, should always be up when their timer comes up. Berserk should only be used right after you were attacked, then dropped before attacked again as a hate spike tactic.
Maybe your group needs as much DPS as you can because you have neither a RNG or BLM. So I can understand your tactic then, but in a high DPS party, all you should care about is holding aggro (which you shouldn't need +ATK, +ACC items for), not dealing damage. If you're holding aggro, then all you should care about is lessening damage.
It sounds like you would be more suited to playing a Ninja.
Paladin's have two priorities.
1) Holding aggro. If you really need +ATK and +ACC to hold aggro consistently, then something is wrong there.
2) Lessening damage. More Vitality, more HP and more Defense are all that should matter to a Paladin if you're holding aggro through the entire fight. Defender, Sentinal, Rampart, should always be up when their timer comes up. Berserk should only be used right after you were attacked, then dropped before attacked again as a hate spike tactic.
Maybe your group needs as much DPS as you can because you have neither a RNG or BLM. So I can understand your tactic then, but in a high DPS party, all you should care about is holding aggro (which you shouldn't need +ATK, +ACC items for), not dealing damage. If you're holding aggro, then all you should care about is lessening damage.
It sounds like you would be more suited to playing a Ninja.
Tabris said:
While I'll let Lenneth handle the reply himself, I have to chime in and say, your reasoning (complete and total meat shield) is way I actually dislike the vast majority of people who play the PLD class.
Len does a fine job of holding aggro considering the following a) some sick ass THF SATA b) some sick ass Skewer WS being thrown around and 3) some sick ass Howling Fists being thrown around. Yet and still, he manages, and holds aggro just fine with the methods discussing above.
It's balance and timing. That is everything in this game. Being a complete and total meat shield like the tactics discussed above (especially throwing out abilities as soon as their timers are up), is a flawed, and rather blah way of doing things in my mind.
Balance and timing. Even a mere WAR/MNK can be a wonderfully effective tank in this game, at all lvls, with the right mindset and timing, against the mightiest of dmg thrown out by their pt members. PLD or NIN is no different.
All IMHO.
Shouta
Member
The average Paladin's aggro management consist of A) Provoke, B) Job Abilities, C) Magic. However, the only one that you can consistently use in a timely fashion is Provoke. Job Abilities have 5 minute timers which means they're only good in a pinch and cannot be used in every single battle unless you're taking too long. Magic is MP based and MP availability depends on a PLD getting Refresh the maximum MP pool. Assuming you're getting Refresh every battle (like you should) the only race that doesn't have to worry about managing MP tightly is Tarutarus. While Humes and Mithra have a fairly large MP pool as is, they still require mangement to generate the aggro needed to hold through
the strongest attacks. Don't get me started on Galka and Elvaan =P.
While provoke is constant and is on a short timer, the problem with the other two is that they have much longer downtimes which means they aren't available in every single battle. By adding +atk and +accu, you not only ensure you hit mobs to gain the effect of +enmity on our AF but also dealing damage in the process which in turns generates aggro. If you haven't noticed already, aggro is generated in proportion to how much damage is dealt or restored (it's a conversation into some sort of number but I haven't bothered figuring out the measurement and full mechanics for it) . If you're able to swing for 25-50 damage a hit on top of normal provoke/flash/JA/Cure routines, it lessens the gap in aggro between a Paladin and a Damage Dealer. Ever wonder why Paladins complain about Rangers doing one Sidewinder then stealing aggro from the Paladin really hard? It's because the gap in aggro becomes much wider as the DD deals damage and and the PLD takes it (and doesn't deal it). While our normal abilities keep the attention of the mob, they only serve as a containment until the breaking point (usually a WS or MB). By swinging and dealing damage, you server to help keep up your aggro index close to that of a DD and so when the breaking point occurs, it isn't a huge difference.
Let's assume that for every 10 points of damage dealt or recieved, you have a +1 to aggro (I'll just refer to it as Enmity Index to be consistent and be able to measure the bonuses from our AF). On this sort of scale, Provoke could roughly be about +40, Flash would be about +35, Sentinel about +40, and Shield Bash about +25. Cure Magic would work on the same principle that for every 10 damage dealt or recieved, it's +1 to the Enmity Index.
My battle routine usually is Flash -> Provoke -> Cure (usually Cure IV) -> Provoke rinse and repeat. I normally don't use JAs unless I need them.
Provoke = +40
Flash = +35
Cure IV = +36 (assuming I tag a full Cure IV).
That gives you 111 Enmity Index as a starting base.
Assuming I focused heavily on VIT and DEF (with a few pieces of Accu that are generally accepted by all like the Lifebelt), I would hit for like 0-10 or 15. For every connect, I would get +8 to the Index due to AF and an additional +1 for every damage up until 15.
That's a +8 or +9 every say, 2-3 seconds? With just the Lifebelt, my hit rate barely scratches in 5/10 more like 4/10 most of the time. So assuming the swing is 3 seconds. For everywhere 30 seconds, I'd only get +32 or +36 added to my Enmity Index based on
my hit rate (and without Double Attack). Say a mob hits you for about 80 a hit in the same timeframe. Mob hit rates are much higher getting into the 8/10 range. Assuming the mob swings/bites/claws/onion punches us at the same speed. At that hit rate and damage, it's a -64 to our index every 30 seconds.
111 + 36 = 147
147 - 64 = 83 after 30 seconds of battle.
Using a RNG as a DD. Assume they launch an arrow every 4 seconds for about 120 damage. Assume they hit 5 or 6 shots out of a possible 7 in 30 seconds.
6 x 12 = 72 based on pure damage alone (Landed hits have natural enmity but I can't say for certain a number for each tagged hit, so it's not factored in).
83 vs 72 is only a small margin between the PLD and the RNG. Assuming the growth is constant , the margin of aggro gets a little wider every 30 seconds. Now, 2 minutes into the fight, a RNG pops a good 900 damage Sidewinder.
With these being constants every 30 seconds.
PLDs would have 332 and the RNG would have 288. Now, add +90 (not including enmity from landed hits) to the RNG's Enmity Index and it's 378. Assuming the RNG is subbed NIN and has utsusemi up, they won't lose any from their total because they aren't taking damage. At this point, it'd take 2 full JAs or a JA and a full Cure IV to bring it back.
Switching gears, I do my current gear setup.
As I stated before, I do roughly 25-50 damage, and land about 6/10 up to 7/10 (on occasion) of my hits. Hitting 7 times in 30 seconds would net me 56 Enmity just based on my AF Enmity alone. Factor in an average of +3 for the average 30 damage I do that that's another 21 to the Enmity. As I stated earlier, the mob hits me for about 10-15 more damage points which equates to +1 per hit on the scale I stated above.
111 + 77 = 188
188 - 72 = 116
Assuming the RNG does the same as in the previous example:
PLD: 116 vs RNG: 72.
It's a much bigger difference in Enmity Index. Now, with the 2 minute situation as I used in the later part of the previous example.
PLD: 464 vs RNG: 288 + 90 (Sidewinder) = 378
I'm still on top of aggro instead of the RNG.
Now, I know you're probably going to say that this isn't plausible but this actually happened with a RNG friend of mine of the same level. I partied with about a week and a half ago. I generated so much aggro through Landed Hits, Damage, and normal PLD techniques that he could land Sidewinders for 700-800 damage without the mob grimacing towards him. Most PLDs couldn't hold aggro through that or at best could make the mob turn towards him several seconds afterwards.
Yes, I know the numbers are made up but they're used to illustrate the point I'm making. The trade-off in damage taken and aggro generated is well more than worth it allowing for the other classes to deal more damage without worrying about getting killed.
Also, I'm not actually factoring in a number of different things like Enmity generated by skill activation, critical hits, Double Attacks, and etc =P.
Lessening damage is, to be frank, 2nd or even 3rd on a PLD's list of important matters.
Holding aggro and allowing DDs to maximize their damage is the most important factor. Second would be keeping everyone alive until the end of the fight by taking the damage for them. Lessening damage is a distant third.
Yes, I agree that reducing damage taken is important but it's not as important as holding the aggro. We already take better damage than all the other classes and giving up a few points to hold aggro better isn't much of a negative. Also, if lessening damage was so important to a party then a NIN tank would be up their alley. NINs don't take damage at all when played properly so they're better for that. People invite PLDs to hold rock-solid aggro and that's the most important thing we need to do.
"DPS" isn't the issue, it's about holding aggro for the other members of your party to deal the damage at full power. Most people have to hold back to not die from the aggro they generate. By holding aggro harder, it allows them to go full power and kill the mob faster. My "DPS" is piddly even with my current atk and accu gear (I can increase it but that requires me to go DD), I'm using it to produce the aggro for tanking not as a DD.
Also, nice way of dissing the other classes =P.
All the DD classes can do excellent damage even on par (not better but on par) with the almighty RNG but because there are so many mediocre or downright bad players out there, all the other classes get a bad rep. Most people think WAR gets shafted in the DD department when in fact a good WAR will compete easily as one of the top DD classes in the game. Anyone that has seen Kintaro in action can attest to this. Hell, Kintaro doesn't even use Ranged attacks which would make him even stronger as a damage dealer (even hitting 2-3 every 10 damage would make him stronger than he already is). Nightwing and Hogashi play the two classes that supposedly get a big shaft after 60 but they're still doing incredible damage. 650 Damage Skewers and 1000+ STDEs isn't anything to scoff at on Orcs.
The only class I will say that straight-out damages everyone else is BLM but they're limited by weak-bodies and MP =P.
I also don't like the DPS measurement of damage. Too miniscule and doesn't factor in a lot of things. I'd rather use the Average damage per battle measurement even if it has flaws too ;p.
Total meatshield tactics won't help you hold aggro when you want the other classes to go {Full Attack!}
I guarantee that your meatshield tactics and almost no other PLD could not hold through the damage that Kintaro, Hogashi, and Nightwing produced at full power that night.
Edit: Timing is important too but being pro-active and generating the aggro yourself is better if you ask me
Edit 2: I should clean it up a bit, if anyone is confused at what I typed lemme know and I'll clarify =P.
http://vnboards.ign.com/The_Dragoon_/b22536/74526847/?42
Some new info regarding CoP. Now you can have your own Chocobo! Weeeeeee
Edit : Ok its merely all specualtion/rumors....i shoulda read the whole thing..but i got all giddy
Some new info regarding CoP. Now you can have your own Chocobo! Weeeeeee
Edit : Ok its merely all specualtion/rumors....i shoulda read the whole thing..but i got all giddy
Shouta... what you do sounds troublesome.
If you like it, that's fine...
but if you're only around LV62... well you still have half the game left in terms of exp.
For me, the priority wasn't about keeping hate from massive damage (which while I could do, found it really tiring over 3-5 hour grinds).
It was about keeping hate smartly.
-------------------
In my parties... I'd start off with
Provoke, flash, JA, C3, provoke, flash.
depending on the non tricking melee, I would alter that a bit.
When it came to skillchain, the trick partner would pull hate off me, and the thief would immediately put hate back onto me.
then another provoke after that, and the MB goes off... hate held through 1500 points of damage, with a relatively minimal amount of effort.
====================
Once you get to 70+, where the mage is doing 1000+ dmg on the MBs, you might find it hard or at least troublesome to keep hate without getting tricked on.
If you are getting tricked on during SCs... well, holding hate is a pretty trivial affair... and it would be in your best interest to minimize damage for exp efficiency.
If you like it, that's fine...
but if you're only around LV62... well you still have half the game left in terms of exp.
For me, the priority wasn't about keeping hate from massive damage (which while I could do, found it really tiring over 3-5 hour grinds).
It was about keeping hate smartly.
-------------------
In my parties... I'd start off with
Provoke, flash, JA, C3, provoke, flash.
depending on the non tricking melee, I would alter that a bit.
When it came to skillchain, the trick partner would pull hate off me, and the thief would immediately put hate back onto me.
then another provoke after that, and the MB goes off... hate held through 1500 points of damage, with a relatively minimal amount of effort.
====================
Once you get to 70+, where the mage is doing 1000+ dmg on the MBs, you might find it hard or at least troublesome to keep hate without getting tricked on.
If you are getting tricked on during SCs... well, holding hate is a pretty trivial affair... and it would be in your best interest to minimize damage for exp efficiency.
Shouta
Member
Not at all...most of the time. There's been a few places where I've let it get out of hand but that comes mostly at times where I'm preoccupied with something at the same time I'm tanking. When I am paying full attention to the battle at hand, there isn't much of a problem at all except when we run low on MP or happen to get a link. Actually, our performance could've been a little better tonight but the WHM (Good Ol' Darkshire) and I aren't on the same healing page so I lose some MP due to either of us firing cures at the wrong times or wrong person (I read he Cure V'd me in the history box but I still accidently Cure IV'd myself >_<).
The threat of death and danger in an Aggressive Tank setup is the same as the average Defensive Tank setup. You only lose a handful of damage a hit while gaining a bigger bonus in damage dealing to generate aggro and to help kill the mob.
Time means little to be frank, just like the saying that quality over quantity counts the most. Yeah, after 60 the XP required to level is enormous but a lot of that time is spent grinding at it rather than rapidly learning and relearning tactics like all the levels previous to 60. Yes, the time required to level has grown but if you're telling me its drastically different from the last 60 levels, then I'd have to disagree.
It's sort of implied that you'd controlling aggro in a smart manner.
It's not massive damage I'm holding aggro from, it's damage in general. If I was just gunning to control just massive damage, I would save all my skills until they do it and then unload which isn't the case. I use the abilities to spike my naturally generated aggro to pull it off of them when they do bring the damage out and rely on swing+damage+enmity to close the gap.
1000 on an MB? I get that already almost with Blizzaga II bursts for almost 900 damage. Heck, the skillchains our static does almost every battle hits for over 1300+ damage (a weaker one at that) behind the Dragoon alone which doesn't include the accumulated aggro with the first Sneak/Trick normal hit that Hogashi does for almost 500 damage at times. I have faced that sort of damage before and I've handled it myself with my method. Sure, getting tricked off of helps a whole lot but it's not exactly required for our setup and tactics.
I will say that I've been slacking a bit in the party because I'm preoccupied with other conversations at the same time ;p.
Just about the only way I'm going to minimize damage now is using an Earth Staff against these Orcs because my Fully Defensive Gear and my Mixed Gear yield pretty much the same damage taken. I pop on Defender and another +6 VIT and the damage is still roughly the same as without Defender and the +6 VIT. So why bother adding more defensive items when they still will hit you for the same. It'd be a bigger benefit to the party to help kill the mob faster (and holding aggro better so the others can hit harder and kill faster ;p) rather than making futile attempts to reduce damage taken.
What you say is true...
but in reality we're just splitting hairs here; the damage gain is minimal, the damage reduction is minimal and the difference in hate keeping is minimal...
the skill and setup of the PT as a PT (and less so as individuals) matters most, along with the mobs you exp off and the situational circumstances (i.e. how much competition you have).
but in reality we're just splitting hairs here; the damage gain is minimal, the damage reduction is minimal and the difference in hate keeping is minimal...
the skill and setup of the PT as a PT (and less so as individuals) matters most, along with the mobs you exp off and the situational circumstances (i.e. how much competition you have).
What kinda gear do you guys have btw?
From the damage, sounds like the gear you guys have is pretty up there.
As for me... been LV75, in HNM mode...
I've got
Joyeuse
Koenigs
Earth Staff (only use occasionally; if the damage is really high)
Happy Egg
Adaman body, feet and legs
Crimson Greaves
Iron Musketeer Gorget
Hume ocean sash
2*pigeon earring
Behemoth mantle
Jelly Ring
Bomb Queen Ring/Topaz Ring
for my tanking gear...
for my attack gear
assault jerkin, life belt, royal guard collar, coral earring*2, hume custom gloves and tiger legs
Along with food and berserk, I can deal as much raw (just normal hits) damage as a drk/thf on VT mobs... considering how well equipped the darks are in our LS, that's no mean feat
One of our sams has just really insane equipment... +48 acc, +65 attack.
Our two monks are pretty nicely equipped as well...
From the damage, sounds like the gear you guys have is pretty up there.
As for me... been LV75, in HNM mode...
I've got
Joyeuse
Koenigs
Earth Staff (only use occasionally; if the damage is really high)
Happy Egg
Adaman body, feet and legs
Crimson Greaves
Iron Musketeer Gorget
Hume ocean sash
2*pigeon earring
Behemoth mantle
Jelly Ring
Bomb Queen Ring/Topaz Ring
for my tanking gear...
for my attack gear
assault jerkin, life belt, royal guard collar, coral earring*2, hume custom gloves and tiger legs
Along with food and berserk, I can deal as much raw (just normal hits) damage as a drk/thf on VT mobs... considering how well equipped the darks are in our LS, that's no mean feat
One of our sams has just really insane equipment... +48 acc, +65 attack.
Our two monks are pretty nicely equipped as well...
Shouta
Member
At least from my standpoint, damage gain is much higher, the damage reduction is just a hair lower, and the hate keeping is stronger for. Party-wise, I think only the most astute people will notice it.
You're right though in that we're really splitting hairs. I like my method more and I think it's more effective , the next PLD likes their method more and thinks it's more effective. In the end, we end up doing the same anyway =P.
Very much so. Interestingly enough, we're the only ones on the server that seem to consistently XP in the area we've been using (Monastic Cavern after the Energy Barrier). Very little competition (mainly because it seems its too slow for them or the chemistry is bad) for us so we get mobs all the time. Just gotta make sure Hogashi doesn't accidently link that Orc Warlord or Hexspinner
.Everyone has the best equips for performance at our level I believe.
I think I know most of them but if I don't, I'll guess it and denote it by using (THK).
Hogashi (THF/WAR) is using: Darksteel Kukri (IIRC), Strike Shield, Lightning Bow, Emperor's Hairpin, Spike Necklace, Drone Earrings, Black Cotehardie, Fluorite Ring x2, Amemit Mantle, Lifebelt, Theif AF Gloves, Thief AF Pants, and Winged Boots.
Nightwing (DRG/WAR) is using: Grand Knight's Lance (THK), Valkyrie's Mask, Coral Gorget (THK), Spike Earrings x2, DRG AF body, DRG AF Hands, Snipers Ring x2 (THK), DRG AF Legs, DRG AF Feet, Amemit Mantle +1, Lifebelt.
Kintaro (MNK/WAR) is using: Spartan Cesti, MNK AF Helm, Spectacles, Spike Earring x2 (THK), MNK AF Body, MNK AF Gloves, Snipers Ring x2, Amemit Mantle +1 (THK, I think he bought it last night), Brownbelt (or lifebelt), MNK AF Legs, Marine M Boots.
Lenneth (PLD/WAR, me) is using: Gluttony Sword (or Darksteel Mace), Balance Buckler, Happy Egg, Gallant Coronet, Royal Guard's Collar, Wing Earring, Assault Earring, Gallant Surcoat, Gallant Gauntlets, Tiger Ring, Chryosberyl Ring, Amemit Mantle, Lifebelt, Gallant Breeches, Gallant Leggings.
I tend to switch gear though and i have another Tiger Ring, another Wing Earring, a War+1 Belt, and now a Republican Army Mantle on me.
It's just not gear though. The 4 of us are outfitted for the best performance rather than min/maxing like a lot of players do.
Don't remember our BRD or WHM's equips. Never bothered looking XD.
Oh yeah, it's not like PLDs are weak or something, we just don't get to do assault fighting because we're good tanks. I could easily match most other melee's normal hit damage with assault gear.
I'd like Joyeuse, a Jelly Ring and a Bomb Queen Ring myself but those mostly for XP. I'm not sure if I'll even get into HNM tanking since there's already tons of PLDs around for that anyway.
Tabris said:Okay, that's A LOT to respond to and I usually only post from work. So it'll take time, I'll probabaly have to copy and paste between this and notepad a lot so I can close this window if needed.
So just give me a bit
This must be one hell of a post... =P