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[CrapSandwich]

Bah, at first glance me thinks this was a bade idea. There was no need to introduce bikes to compete with TDU. I was gladly going to buy it as an arcade racer, which does not compete with Forza for me. I have no idea how they will balance it, and how to cope with bike driver falling off (they don't and it's super unrealistic, they do then they will always be hit by cars). I do know one reason for including bike's, get to raise the vehicle count with easy bike models.

I don't think they're competing with TDU. TDU will be more than a year old when PGR 4 comes out. And I don't think they're doing it just for the sake of adding more vehicles. That's insano reasoning. What evidence is there to support that idea? Adding another control scheme and physics model for the bikes is going to create more work for them, not less.

As far as having bikes, I'm all for it even though it may be another in a long line of stupid decisions they've made with this series. Let's recap:

1. The whole Kudos thing with its stupid ticking sound that drives me ****ing crazy and the ball-busting, anti-fun cone challenges.

2. Focusing on convertibles in MSR "because they're cool."

3. Centering the games around custom tracks in cities. Sorry, but as far as tracks go, most cities suck asshole. That's why so many people like Nurburgring the best out of all the tracks in MSR-PGR 3. If every city was Edinburgh, I'd take this point back. But that's not the reality.

4. Over-hyped features like location unique soundtracks and Gotham TV and photo mode. They're all worth something, but come on. It's gimmick stuff.

They make bad decisions is the point. However, the series needs a refresh, something to evolve it. Bikes might do the trick. I think the bikes will probably be more fun to drive in cities than the autos.

As much crap as I just talked on Bizarre and their games, I'd like to disclaimer myself and mention that I think this series is among the best of racing games and I would not miss PGR 4 for anything.

 

[Lazy Jones]

As far as having bikes, I'm all for it even though it may be another in a long line of stupid decisions they've made with this series. Let's recap:

1. The whole Kudos thing with its stupid ticking sound that drives me ****ing crazy and the ball-busting, anti-fun cone challenges.

2. Focusing on convertibles in MSR "because they're cool."

3. Centering the games around custom tracks in cities. Sorry, but as far as tracks go, most cities suck asshole. That's why so many people like Nurburgring the best out of all the tracks in MSR-PGR 3. If every city was Edinburgh, I'd take this point back. But that's not the reality.

4. Over-hyped features like location unique soundtracks and Gotham TV and photo mode. They're all worth something, but come on. It's gimmick stuff.

Racing in cities is what makes PGR what it is. Nurburgring is fun but the other tracks in Forza 2
for example are more boring than most of the city tracks from the PGR series in my opinion.
I played PGR3 yesterday for the first time in months and was surprised how much more fun than Forza it was.
Yeah it feels quite a bit more arcadey but also quite a bit more intense.

I'm not really looking forward to bikes in PGR since the only bike game I have ever liked was Road Rash but perhaps Bizzare can make it fun.
I doubt it though.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

:lol :lol :lol

Hmm? You want to argue the point? You're saying that PGR4 is going for a cartoony look or something?

 

[SuperBonk]

Racing in cities is what makes PGR what it is. Nurburgring is fun but the other tracks in Forza 2
for example are more boring than most of the city tracks from the PGR series in my opinion.

Agree 100%. Nurburgring is a great track, but I also love the city tracks of PGR. The tracks in Forza 1 were a major reason why I didn't purchase Forza 2.

 

[fronn]

What the hell is wrong with Neogaf today?

PGR4, unless massively changed from the last videos I saw, does indeed look plastic and the cars don't look like they are on the road at all -- the "wow" videos people were crazed over didn't look all that outstanding (certainly nothing I'd show anyone to impress).

It's truly amazing how little thinking is tolerated here when it doesn't follow popular opinion. The post may not have had much content, but I've never seen anything above a junior banned for comments like that (that get made dozens of times a day by members with less knowledge than my cat about graphics programming).

Poor Nostromo... If I was him I wouldn't bother coming back here. Pretty pissy moderation work.

 

[neojubei]

I was enjoying this topic until this. Someone just got on my bad side.

 

[Karma Kramer]

What the hell is wrong with Neogaf today?

PGR4, unless massively changed from the last videos I saw, does indeed look plastic and the cars don't look like they are on the road at all -- the "wow" videos people were crazed over didn't look all that outstanding (certainly nothing I'd show anyone to impress).

It's truly amazing how little thinking is tolerated here when it doesn't follow popular opinion. The post may not have had much content, but I've never seen anything above a junior banned for comments like that (that get made dozens of times a day by members with less knowledge than my cat about graphics programming).

Poor Nostromo... If I was him I wouldn't bother coming back here. Pretty pissy moderation work.

He wasn't banned for having the opinion that the cars in PGR4 look like plastic... All he was banned for was the way he said it.

There are dozens of other ways a developer with grand knowledge of graphics, art, ect. could have conveyed his/her distaste for the visual look of a game. If Nostromo really wanted to make a point he should have invested time in writing a response that actually educated us...

Though I still don't agree with the concept that being a developer makes you an expert of what looks real and what looks like plastic. Its a subjective point of view... one that cannot be right or wrong.

 

[Zen]

The cars looks really... off... I can't put my finger on it but especially in how the light and reflections bounce off the cars it looks almost like water is continuously evaporating on the surface of the car (minus the steam). Kind of gross to be honest when there are a lot of other racing games with seemingly much more defined (realistic?) shading.

 

[Joates]

What the hell is wrong with Neogaf today?

PGR4, unless massively changed from the last videos I saw, does indeed look plastic and the cars don't look like they are on the road at all -- the "wow" videos people were crazed over didn't look all that outstanding (certainly nothing I'd show anyone to impress).

It's truly amazing how little thinking is tolerated here when it doesn't follow popular opinion. The post may not have had much content, but I've never seen anything above a junior banned for comments like that (that get made dozens of times a day by members with less knowledge than my cat about graphics programming).

Poor Nostromo... If I was him I wouldn't bother coming back here. Pretty pissy moderation work.

Unless youre holding off showing it to other haters in this thread, I have no idea what youre talking about. Regardless of photorealism or not, those shots look absolutely great. This just shows how out of touch GAF is as hardcore gamers. Hell, my friend who doesnt really play games all that much anymore (madden whore), whenever he comes over and sees me playing Forza2 the first words out of his mouth are, "god that tv is awesome, and those graphics are ****ing amazing". Just kind of goes to show...

BTW, what would you show to impress someone?

 

[mrklaw]

The cars looks really... off... I can't put my finger on it but especially in how the light and reflections bounce off the cars it looks almost like water is continuously evaporating on the surface of the car (minus the steam). Kind of gross to be honest when there are a lot of other racing games with seemingly much more defined (realistic?) shading.

I agree, and I'm not that keen on the rain.

To be honest though, I'd be happy with PGR3 + proper 720p + new tracks and some graphical tweaks here and there (eg no pop in of detail on the starting line). Fabulous racing series.

 

[Lakitu]

What the hell is wrong with Neogaf today?

PGR4, unless massively changed from the last videos I saw, does indeed look plastic and the cars don't look like they are on the road at all -- the "wow" videos people were crazed over didn't look all that outstanding (certainly nothing I'd show anyone to impress).

It's truly amazing how little thinking is tolerated here when it doesn't follow popular opinion. The post may not have had much content, but I've never seen anything above a junior banned for comments like that (that get made dozens of times a day by members with less knowledge than my cat about graphics programming).

Poor Nostromo... If I was him I wouldn't bother coming back here. Pretty pissy moderation work.

You are extremly sad.

 

[JoJo13]

He wasn't banned for having the opinion that the cars in PGR4 look like plastic... All he was banned for was the way he said it.

There are dozens of other ways a developer with grand knowledge of graphics, art, ect. could have conveyed his/her distaste for the visual look of a game. If Nostromo really wanted to make a point he should have invested time in writing a response that actually educated us...

it was NOT trolling, I truly, sincerely believe their car shading sucks, it does, I write shaders for a living I believe I'm entitled to my own opinion, I usually don't go around trolling threads. (btw..I have stated the SAME opinion on B3D many times before..but hey..no one accused me of trolling, maybe you guys you should open your eyes, observe that image VERY carefully, and then reply to me).
Don't agree with me? fine, It's not like I won't sleep tonight :lol
EDIT: thanks for the the last pics, I'm even more convinced about my statement now.

What more can he, Nostromo, say? He doesn't like it and thinks the cars look like plastic.

How more complex of a reasoning/answer do you want from him for a simple and straight forward response?

It isn't like he said the entire game look is plastic like. As he has also stated that the environment are amazing while the shading are last gen.

 

[Karma Kramer]

What more can he, Nostromo, say? He doesn't like it and thinks the cars look like plastic.

How more complex of a reasoning/answer do you want from him for a simple and straight forward response?

It isn't like he said the entire game look is plastic like. As he has also stated that the environment are amazing while the shading are last gen.

I was talking about his comment, "plastic cars confirmed." Like I said earlier... you can't mock a crowd and then expect them to listen to you.

I just found his comments to show a lack of respect... and I find it odd that people keep behaving in a disrespectful manner to this game (1) and to the mods (2) by endlessly bringing up this topic that has no relevance to PGR4. He was banned for like 12 hours. Its not the end of the world.

Spoiler

or is it...?

 

[Joates]

I was talking about his comment, "plastic cars confirmed." Like I said earlier... you can't mock a crowd and then expect them to listen to you.

I just found his comments to show a lack of respect... and I find it odd that people keep behaving in a disrespectful manner to this game (1) and to the mods (2) by endlessly bringing up this topic that has no relevance to PGR4. He was banned for like 12 hours. Its not the end of the world.

Spoiler

or is it...?

I would like to see a dev or someone like luke or stinkles to get permabanned. I would expect to try logging in the next day and have a sort of crime screne-esque vibe around the website, with massive investigations as to whether or not the posts were of a trolling nature, or perhaps if the culprit was set up. Caution tape backgrounds with news tickers keeping GAF updated. It would be rather hilarious.

 

[JoJo13]

I was talking about his comment, "plastic cars confirmed." Like I said earlier... you can't mock a crowd and then expect them to listen to you.

I just found his comments to show a lack of respect... and I find it odd that people keep behaving in a disrespectful manner to this game (1) and to the mods (2) by endlessly bringing up this topic that has no relevance to PGR4. He was banned for like 12 hours. Its not the end of the world.

Spoiler

or is it...?

I thought what Nostromo said was pretty much on spot. It maybe called trolling by others who enjoy this franchise, but he's calling it is as he sees it.

I don't get how you come up with his comment being a lack of respect when its his opinion. You want him to lie to you like a politician/PR dude? If so, great for you then.

But whats more disrespecting is seeing people bringing up an old games as its some how a measurement of his ability on a next-gen console.

 

[J-Rzez]

J-Rzez you're a cool guy and one of the few car buffs on here who actually likes cars rather than being a poser.

But dammit dude, that rain looks awesome! :lol



Regarding Supras, while I've never thought they were crap performance-wise, I've always found them a bit clumsy looking and big but they have been growing on me a lot in recent years (Top Secret 3S-GTE Supra is an awesome looking thing). I agree it's nice to see some loving.

Also regarding the arcadey nature, I found PGR pretty boring until I got PGR3 with the wheel and suddenly it became unbelievable fun. I don't now how realistic it is with the wheel, but it certainly becomes quite challenging. OK, I'm done editing now...

Thanks! I think I let my passion of cars go too far sometimes, expecting too much... I can't wait until GT5 comes out so I can find something that really annoys me on there so the other camp can tell me to gtfo, :lol

The rain is love/hate I guess... It's just not for me, but, doesn't mean everyone else should hate it... Just like the shaders/lighting/over-all appearance in the cars... I'm not too keen on it, and the cars look a lil, arcadey in most of the racers we've seen this gen (outside DiRT)...

And no... Supra's were never crap performance wise... Mark III's were great, and MKIV's are incredible cars that more than hold their own today despite being 14years old... The 2JZ-GTE is one of the most grossly overbuilt motors for it's time, and today... and with a little work, are absolute MONSTERS on the straights, AND in the twists...

 

[Karma Kramer]

I thought what Nostromo said was pretty much on spot. It maybe called trolling by others who enjoy this franchise, but he's calling it is as he sees it.

I don't get how you come up with his comment being a lack of respect when its his opinion. You want him to lie to you like a politician/PR dude? If so, great for you then.

But whats more disrespecting is seeing people bringing up an old games as its some how a measurement of his ability on a next-gen console.

"plastic cars confirmed" is on GAF a standard 101 troll comment. He could have expressed himself in many more respectful ways and still got the same message across.

Also for the record I like Kung Fu Chaos... had a lot of fun playing this game with my friends. Though the last level was a bitch and I never beat it. :lol

 

[Joates]

"plastic cars confirmed" is on GAF a standard 101 troll comment. He could have expressed himself in many more respectful ways and still got the same message across.

Also for the record I like Kung Fu Chaos... had a lot of fun playing this game with my friends. Though the last level was a bitch and I never beat it. :lol

Anyone with common sense knows it was a trollish post.

Anyways, I think we should just ignore the nostromo incident and anyone who brings it up in this thread. Its already been argued to death in this thread and the groupthink thread, and its done with. Say what you will about the cars, but for me, regardless of photorealism or not, the shots look great.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Anyways, I think we should just ignore the nostromo incident and anyone who brings it up in this thread. Its already been argued to death in this thread and the groupthink thread, and its done with. Say what you will about the cars, but for me, regardless of photorealism or not, the shots look great.

I agree... it just hard to resist adding your own input into these type of discussions. Its weird. I should just ignore it... but I always fall for the trap that just one more comment will shut everyone up and will get this thread back on track.

Never works out that way though.

--

One thing I hope Bizarre does better in PGR4 is the Xbox 360 wheel functionality. It was okay in PGR3... but they should strive to be on the same level as Forza 2 for example.

 

[Skilotonn]

Haven't been in this thread for a couple days, thinking that with a few new pages, some new media came out or something...

...boy was I wrong. Usual suspects and everything.

 

[Router]

I agree... it just hard to resist adding your own input into these type of discussions. Its weird. I should just ignore it... but I always fall for the trap that just one more comment will shut everyone up and will get this thread back on track.

Never works out that way though.

--

One thing I hope Bizarre does better in PGR4 is the Xbox 360 wheel functionality. It was okay in PGR3... but they should strive to be on the same level as Forza 2 for example.

Well, they did say that the reason they never updated the software for FFB in PGR3 was because the team had moved on to making a much better system for PGR4.


Anyone knoe if they will have a photo upload system like FM2?

 

[p3tran]

Anyone knoe if they will have a photo upload system like FM2?

photo upload system was in pgr3 before forza2, along with many other great features.
if you look a few S) pages back at the newer features that bizzare is implementing for pgr4,
you should be a really happy man,
unless of course you prefer blindly taking sides on system wars (last pages) more than actually enjoying great games like the gotham racing series has been since its beginning.

 

[Forsete]

nope. I am boycotting trolls.

:lol :lol :lol

Great thread.

 

[starfox]

Project Gotham Racing 4 looks very good for a year after iteration of a already Car Graphics Benchmark game, and the weather effects look very cool. Hope it adds another layer of driving strategy to the game.

OOPSS... offtopic remark. Back to the topic, Troll.

 

[Router]

photo upload system was in pgr3 before forza2, along with many other great features.
if you look a few S) pages back at the newer features that bizzare is implementing for pgr4,
you should be a really happy man,

Ahhh crap, I totally forgot they had that in PGR3... I dont know, Its late here... Thats my excuse.

unless of course you prefer blindly taking sides on system wars (last pages) more than actually enjoying great games like the gotham racing series has been since its beginning.

Too much effort is involved in system wars. I will just play the games.

 

[DemonCleaner]

super7 ma friend!

 

[GHG]

nope. I am boycotting trolls.

You've got to be shitting me...

 

[shpankey]

I thought what Nostromo said was pretty much on spot. It maybe called trolling by others who enjoy this franchise, but he's calling it is as he sees it.

I don't get how you come up with his comment being a lack of respect when its his opinion. You want him to lie to you like a politician/PR dude? If so, great for you then.

But whats more disrespecting is seeing people bringing up an old games as its some how a measurement of his ability on a next-gen console.

*sigh*

for the last time, it's not so much what he said, but the WAY he said it. I really don't know how many times people can keep beating this through your heads. the fact that some of you keep refusing to understand something so completely obvious makes me suspicious.

anyhow, i'm done trying.

 

[CrapSandwich]

Racing in cities is what makes PGR what it is. Nurburgring is fun but the other tracks in Forza 2
for example are more boring than most of the city tracks from the PGR series in my opinion.

I get the idea here but I just don't agree. I liked San Francisco, NY Central Park was kind of cool, Stockholm was good, and Edinburgh was great. But then there's stuff like NY without Central Park, Chicago, and Las Vegas that were all so boring. It seems like Bizarre are more concerned with the population of an area than how good the tracks are. Like they're picking cities just for the sake of picking cities, not because their choices make a better game. And I think that out of all the roads in the world, really tight winding roads are among the most fun to drive and would make for a better game. But you don't find a lot of those in cities, unfortunately.

 

[gamerx]

Hmm? You want to argue the point? You're saying that PGR4 is going for a cartoony look or something?

the comparison between GT5 and PGR4 is valid as they're both car racing sims that strive for a realistic look

PGR4 is not a racing sim.

Spoiler

I got noting against HS just trolls.

 

[Len Dontree]

I wonder how the bikes will work when using the wheel? Unless you can seamlessly switch from the wheel to controller between each race...I don't know, it just seems like it could be awkward. I love that they added them though, and the weather is going to be a great (re-)addition.

I love the series, I've been playing since MSR, but it seems like they add a bunch of cool new features with each iteration while also taking away a feature that I loved. Such as naming your own license plates and "Kudos" messages, completely adjustable and saveable camera angles (including a weird fish-eye effect if you so desired), using the right analog stick as a gear shift (why don't more games allow this??!!) and so on.

I like the direction this one's heading in though. Dare I dream that my beloved Subaru SVX is "iconic" enough to be included since it got the shaft in Forza 2? (Of course it's not ;_; )

 

[FightyF]

PGR4 is not a racing sim.

Spoiler

I got noting against HS just trolls.

Well, then just hope he gets his ass fired or something.

HS has a massive team of over 150 people AFAIR, don't let one clown bring the whole team down, in your eyes.

JoJo13: Go to an HS thread and say "Overdone bloom confirmed". Just do it. See what happens.

I wonder how the bikes will work when using the wheel? Unless you can seamlessly switch from the wheel to controller between each race...I don't know, it just seems like it could be awkward. I love that they added them though, and the weather is going to be a great (re-)addition.

That's one reason why I was against the idea of including bikes in GT5. It will be awkward switching between controllers/wheel. Who knows? They might make it work with the wheel...

Y'know if arcades were still hot, it would be awesome to see BC release an all bike racer, with an arcade setup like Manx TT.

 

[dfyb]

Well, then just hope he gets his ass fired or something.

HS has a massive team of over 150 people AFAIR, don't let one clown bring the whole team down, in your eyes.

JoJo13: Go to an HS thread and say "Overdone bloom confirmed". Just do it. See what happens.

fired for saying "plastic cars confirmed"?!

pitiful. you guys

 

[FightyF]

fired for saying "plastic cars confirmed"?!

pitiful. you guys

Fired for being an ass. It's not just that one post, but the others that followed it. If he didn't openly state his job title, I'm sure his company doesn't mind. But if an employee openly claims that he is involved with such and such title, and then trolls threads...it doesn't look good on the company.

The smart thing for the company to do is to ask him to start posting anonymously so that their reputation isn't tied to his posting reputation.

 

[urk]

Oh shits. Fired? Come on. :lol

Overreaction confirmed.

Can we please drop this now? The mods set up a thread for everyone to discuss this issue and yet it goes on and on here, basically ruining the thread for anyone who just wants to talk about the PGR4 shots.

I don't know if Nostromo meant his comment to be a troll, but he sure caught a shitload of fish.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Fired for being an ass. It's not just that one post, but the others that followed it.

Just when I thought you couldn't possibly become more weird... now you actually wish for a developer who has contributed a lot of information and answered a lot of questions on this forum fired from a development studio because the dude posted something on NeoGAF that you don't agree with? That's kinda sad.

Oh shits. Fired? Come on. :lol

Overreaction confirmed.

Can we please drop this now? The mods set up a thread for everyone to discuss this issue and yet it goes on and on here, basically ruining the thread for anyone who just wants to talk about the PGR4 shots.

People need to take some responsibility for their own part in shitstorms like this one. If you think it's bait, then don't go for it! Don't be fish, people.


On topic... I'm mostly interested in seeing how the in-car view has evolved, to be honest.l I expect car models to look good enough, so that's a non-issue.

 

[CrapSandwich]

Lord almighty... just drop it. Go make a ****ing Nostromo thread if you're so god damned concerned about it.

 

[Joates]

What makes you think I don't plan on playing the game? I have PGR3, and I'm interested to see what PGR4 will be doing.

The point of my post was to defend Nostromo's POV; the game does look good, but its cars do have a certain artificial quality to them. The weather effects are fantastic though; and I hope to see GT5 implement something similar.

And the comparison between GT5 and PGR4 is valid as they're both car racing sims that strive for a realistic look (as far as I can tell).

Cant believe I missed that until it was quoted. Wow. Why do you even bother coming into 360 racing game threads and then presenting shit comments like this that make someone question whether or not you have a clue what youre talking about. Is burnout a sim too now? Is it striving for photorealism. Please quit the BS and go play the game before make comments (this also makes your FM2 comments much more clear from the other thread.)

 

[Gattsu25]

Fired for being an ass. It's not just that one post, but the others that followed it. If he didn't openly state his job title, I'm sure his company doesn't mind. But if an employee openly claims that he is involved with such and such title, and then trolls threads...it doesn't look good on the company.

The smart thing for the company to do is to ask him to start posting anonymously so that their reputation isn't tied to his posting reputation.

dude...

 

[dfyb]

Fired for being an ass. It's not just that one post, but the others that followed it. If he didn't openly state his job title, I'm sure his company doesn't mind. But if an employee openly claims that he is involved with such and such title, and then trolls threads...it doesn't look good on the company.

The smart thing for the company to do is to ask him to start posting anonymously so that their reputation isn't tied to his posting reputation.

you are making this into a big deal when it really isn't. he wasn't being an ass, he was defending his opinion, which he reserves every right to express. it's sad that you think employees shouldn't be able to voice their honest opinion. their opinions often have more value than the typical forum dweller and it's a real shame that some people aren't mature enough to handle it.

and no, you shouldn't be required to write out a detailed technical paper on why you think what you think -- people should be free to express their opinion. other people posted about how they look amazing with nothing to back it up -- the only difference with his post is that the opinion expressed disagreed with others.

and now he should LOSE HIS JOB?! words can't express how sad you are.

I don't know if Nostromo meant his comment to be a troll, but he sure caught a shitload of fish.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6940632&postcount=47

he clearly states it wasn't a troll

 

[Karma Kramer]

This has gone on long enough.

This thread is officially dead. Thanks guys.

 

[wonderkins]

This has gone on long enough.

This thread is officially dead. Thanks guys.

Isn't that good?

Like a phoenix from the ashes, a better thread can hopefully arise. One without all the histrionics.

 

[Tideas]

Wait, I can't find the thinkgroup thread

 

[abacab driver]

Like a phoenix from the ashes, a better thread can hopefully arise. One without all the histrionics.

Tuesday night..

 

[Karma Kramer]

Isn't that good?

Like a phoenix from the ashes, a better thread can hopefully arise. One without all the histrionics.

Very true actually.

The QUEEN IS DEAD! WOOO HOO!

 

[Joates]

Wait, I can't find the thinkgroup thread

A) It was locked

B) It wasnt just about the damn nostromo incident, but that didnt stop people from taking shit from this thread into that one.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

wow this thread is insane. Anyways Kung FU chaos graphically was amazing. You guys forget how great it looked.


PGR3 looks awesome too.

 

[proposition]

This has gone on long enough.

This thread is officially dead. Thanks guys.

It was killed by the plastic cars comment, frankly. The shitstorm is just icing.

Errr, I didn't intend for that to sound like that.

 

[michaeld]

Some people have no lives as proved by this thread. I can't believe some people get so worked up over a trivial comment/opinion about a videogame.

 

[karasu]

I don't think Nostromo even worked on Kung Fu Chaos. Didn't he say that before? But WTF does that have to do with PGR4?