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[elcuervo75]

Advice #1:

Piracy is not the same as thieving.

Advice #2:

Do you even know the NAMES of all south and central american countries? Be informed yourself when you are so eager to call others misinformed.

Advice #3:

Never generalize based on your limited poor experience.

Advice #4

Even if you were right. Which you are not, since you cant possibly know all of south amd central america, whenever you feel the urge to do a xenophobic post, take a deep breath and hold it to yourself.




__________


Semi-related:

Its very easy to judge when you never been in others shoes. I know kids that the only possible way for them to ever play a game in their life, is to pirate on the ps2, a 15 year old platform.

Sure, gaming is not a right, its a luxury. But its easy to say that when you had that luxury your whole life.


Not defending piracy, i know im risking getting a ban like this, but the way people in first world countries judge us annoy me to no end.

I appreciate your response.

Piracy is not the same as thieving. - the law says otherwise
I can't name all, but most. Not sure what that has to do with it.
I don't consider that I have poor experience, with a latina wife and multiple latino friends.

I agree with you about judging, as I get judged all the time as being from a first world country. Like you assuming I was wealthy and had gaming my whole life. The fact is my parents could by no means afford my first Nintendo and I paid for it with Christmas money from my aunt and lawnmowing jobs. Hooked it up to our only 19 inch TV from 1974.

 

[Red Devil]

When Sony decided to open an official Argentinian store they blatantly marked up their prices for example.

That has to do more with retailers in Argentina expecting excessive amounts of profit from anything, not just Sony being strategically inept.

 

[88Titan88]

That's very quick work from hackers. o_o
But Sony should be able to fix that without much trouble, to at least keep the pirates from using online services.

@Brazil prices:
People who haven't kept up with Dollar-Real values over the years may not get how freaking expensive games are here right now.
A game costs US$ 60,00 as it does in North America, yes, but since Real is very devalued, those 60 dollars convert to a fuckton of money, much more than it would a few years ago.

 

[CSX]

Is this potentially the most expensive pirating method of all time?

We talking about a 2nd ps4 , a chip to put inside the ps4, and a Raspberry Pi. Also, you gotta have someone buying at least one digital copy of new games to start copying it around.

 

[Kurt Russell]

That has to do more with retailers in Argentina expecting excessive amounts of profit from anything, not just Sony being strategically inept.

I'm talking about the digital Playstation store, not retailers. Retailers marking up prices is normal here and I wouldn't have expected anything different, but marking up digital prices is an awful move.

 

[Theonik]

Piracy is not the same as thieving. - the law says otherwise

Which laws are you reading that equate piracy to thieving.

 

[elcuervo75]

I stand by you man, don't apologize. I'm South American and people don't give a shit about pirating everything: books, music, movies, tv shows, software. People from all classes do it, including people wealthy enough to afford the real stuff.

In Chile, things have got a little better though. Until the 90s, early 2000s you could easily find stores that sold pirated games, but now they're closed down by the police. I guess that Sony got their shit together here and started enforcing their copyright.

That is what I see too. I have a cousin whose parents are almost millionaires, I kid you not. Her PC is running a pirated version of Windows. Her huge music collection is ALL copied. Movies ALL copied.

I wish I would have typed my original post differently. I was not thinking. It's just an issue that has always bugged me about my family down there, as well as my other latino friends.

It really is a cultural problem. My friend in China says the same things.

 

[Durante]

I find it interesting how closed platforms are getting better and better at completely preventing homebrew, but still fail to prevent piracy.

 

[Hans.Gruber]

Menace II Society, right?

My 2 cents on his statement:
I think ya'll need to lay off him. He immediately apologized for his dumb words.
Back in the days Poland used to be like that too, you could buy pirated PS1 and PC games in actual legit stores and markets. Along with fake adidas and nike gear etc.
Guess what, if I see a legit store in my town that sells stuff I wouldn't go out of my way to buy the same thing somewhere else for more money. Especially if money is tight.
Actually many Germans (me included back in the days) went to Poland by train on a weekend (only 1 h hour ride from Berlin) to buy this stuff.

 

[Kurt Russell]

That is what I see too. I have a cousin whose parents are almost millionaires, I kid you not. Her PC is running a pirated version of Windows. Her huge music collection is ALL copied. Movies ALL copied.

I wish I would have typed my original post differently. I was not thinking. It's just an issue that has always bugged me about my family down there, as well as my other latino friends.

It really is a cultural problem. My friend in China says the same things.

It is a cultural problem, but, as I said in my previous post, it's also partly the publishers' fault.

 

[Meaty]

I dont know what country you live in, but mine and most, treat copyright differently than they treat thievery and robbery.
And even if by your law they are the same, thieving implies subtraction of an item, something that does not happen in piracy.

I wasnt judging you, i ended my reply to you with:

_______

After that, i did a semi related post so I could talk about something else, not about you.

Edit: also, why I asked you to name all those countries? Because if you are willing to be talking about south and central america as a whole, implying you have knowledge about those countries, then you must surely know their names

 

[t1gerjaw]

As always, the famous "jeitinho brasileiro" working at full force, and yes, I know this was created by russians in first place.

Well, well, I just remembered that I won't get The Witcher 3 at release date on the XB1 because of the ridiculous price we have here compared to the pc version. Also, I like consoles, so pc gaming its kinda of a hassle, and way more expensive to me, specifically because I live in a crappy region.

 

[elcuervo75]

I can always agree with someone who is willing to admit a mistake

It's like you say, piracy is rampant here, but people should also consider that we aren't getting a fair treatment from the publishers either.
When Sony decided to open an official Argentinian store they blatantly marked up their prices for example. I mean, our economy is way worse than the USA for example, yet Sony decided that we should pay MORE instead of trying to do something like what Valve did in Brazil or the CIS countries (sadly, Valve thinks that only Mexico and Brazil are part of Latin America when it comes to fair pricing, so we get all the same region locks but have to pay the same as the USA)
Same goes for most musical labels, movie distributors, etc.
Worst thing is that now we can't even import stuff, because our import taxes are outrageous (and the customs offices steal stuff all the time)

Thank you for your response, and I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. I truly didn't mean it the way it sounded. I just talk like that when I'm trying to make a point, and I should try to change that.

I totally hear you about the inflated pricing. I see it improving a bit the last couple years. We were going to buy my father-in-law a flat panel HDTV recently and I was happy to see prices were only about 10% more than in the USA. A few years ago they were almost 100% more for certain electronics. PS4's were still about 40% more unfortunately.

I have also been a victim of the customs offices stealing things I send down there. The governments really need to solve those injustices.

 

[Yurikerr]

The piracy problem here in Brazil is something cultural, but when you consider that the companies that are responsible for bringing the content don't care about fair pricing or facilitating the access to information it's more complicated to label everybody as thiefs.

As many said, the official price of a ps4 is R$4.000, that's almost 6 times the minimum wage. A new game cost between R$199 and R$249, almost a third of what more than at least 50% of the population receive in a month of work.

The next time someone feel the need to label us all as criminals, he could at least inform himself that in Brazil, 16 million people receive less than $30 dollars in a month.

Gaming, music, cinema, are all a luxury. But every human being deserves to have access to leisure. Every kid wants to play videogames, watch tv and listen to the hot new music band. Unfortunately piracy is the only way they have access to this kind of content. Do you prefer to buy food or a new game?

And let's not forget that when companies try a minimum to offer alternatives and fair ways to access the culture starts to change, slowly, but that's a start. Just see netflix and spotify numbers expansion numbers.

I think that elcuervo post was really dumb (and he already apologized), but at least we can use it to start a better conversation about why the culture is this way, and what companies are making to combat piracy without alienating 90% of people.

 

[Hans.Gruber]

I dont know what country you live in, but mine and most, treat copyright differently than they treat thievery and robbery.
And even if by your law they are the same, thieving implies subtraction of an item, something that does not happen in piracy.

Actually the difference is easy:

stealing/robbing/thieving = taking a physical item
copyright infingement / piracy = stealing an intellectual good (not material)

A guy who buys DVD-R movies isn't stealing the actual DVD from Warner Bros., he is consuming the 0's and 1's burned on the disc that show the movies without paying WB.
Not stealing.

As many said, the official price of a ps4 is R$4.000, that's almost 6 times the minimum wage. A new game cost between R$199 and R$249, almost a third of what more than at least 50% of the population receive in a month of work.

The next time someone feel the need to label us all as criminals, he could at least inform himself that in Brazil, 16 million people receive less than $30 dollars in a month.

Gaming, music, cinema, are all a luxury. But every human being deserves to have access to leisure. Every kid wants to play videogames, watch tv and listen to the hot new music band. Unfortunately piracy is the only way they have access to this kind of content. Do you prefer to buy food or a new game?

As someone who used to be broke all the time I totally get it. The amount of piracy is pretty high here in Germany too. Even tho ppl would have the money to pay for games.

 

[elcuervo75]

I find it interesting how closed platforms are getting better and better at completely preventing homebrew, but still fail to prevent piracy.

Good point, I never thought about that. Homebrew is awesome and should be allowed if possible to do that and prevent piracy at the same time.

 

[system11]

That's pretty oldschool - we used to do something extremely similar to get around license checks on Sun servers back in the day.

I mean someone else used to.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Menace II Society, right?

My 2 cents on his statement:
I think ya'll need to lay off him. He immediately apologized for his dumb words.
Back in the days Poland used to be like that too, you could buy pirated PS1 and PC games in actual legit stores and markets. Along with fake adidas and nike gear etc.
Guess what, if I see a legit store in my town that sells stuff I wouldn't go out of my way to buy the same thing somewhere else for more money. Especially if money is tight.
Actually many Germans (me included back in the days) went to Poland by train on a weekend (only 1 h hour ride from Berlin) to buy this stuff.

We can have a conversation about piracy culture and the problems it brings

Said conversation cannot start with calling people ignorant criminals.

 

[88Titan88]

elcuervo75
Banned

*gulp*
Gotta be careful when posting.

 

[le-seb]

That's pretty oldschool - we used to do something extremely similar to get around license checks on Sun servers back in the day.

I mean someone else used to.

lol

Hopefully, Sony will move the system ID to a smartcard, like Sun did.

 

[Maintenance]

This 'Banned', is he south american? I think he just stole that guy's account.

 

[Hans.Gruber]

We can have a conversation about piracy culture and the problems it brings

Said conversation cannot start with calling people ignorant criminals.

I only read his initial post when I replied to you. The post he followed it up with made it worse. I would never be judgmental like that, sitting here in Germany where a new next gen game cost reasonable 60€ (for scale: a McDonald's value meal is ~8€, seeing a movie ~12€). IMO this situation is the fault of the companies and the local government.
Last November I was in Miami at a Mall and chatted with some Brazilians about why they where buying 3 iPhones each. They told me iPhones are 3 times as expensive in Brazil because of taxes and Apple shitting on them with prices.

 

[Yurikerr]

I only read his initial post when I replied to you. The post he followed it up with made it worse. I would never be judgmental like that, sitting here in Germany where a new next gen game cost reasonable 60€ (for scale: a McDonald's value meal is ~8€, seeing a movie ~12€). IMO this situation is the fault of the companies and the local government.
Last November I was in Miami at a Mall and chatted with some Brazilians about why they where buying 3 iPhones each. They told me iPhones are 3 times as expensive in Brazil because of taxes and Apple shitting on them with prices.

Yep, that sounds like Brazilians in Miami =P

The imported products price in brazil is a very complicated problem. Because we have three of the worst causes:

1-Exorbitant taxes (i would even call it criminal)
2-Greed companies
3-Product demand (everyone wants to show the band new iPhone)

When you combine this 3 aspects you get prices like $1200 iPhones and $1350 PS4.

I know people that make a living by travelling to USA and bringing the most amount of macbooks/iPhones/iPads as they can prayiing to not get caught by the customs.

 

[RdN]

From what I understand from the Google translated article, this is a technique created in Russia, right?

It's weird that this blows up in Brazil first, instead of Russia itself, or maybe China.

Anyway, hopefully Sony can crack down on this. Last gen, Microsoft got beat to pirates very early with the 360 and was never able to recover, even with the hardware revision. Hopefully it's not the same.

 

[Delusibeta]

Yeah, this isn't a crack, it's hardware cloaning. The "pirated" console is largely useless outside of the ten chosen games and disc games. No unsigned code possible, no additional pirated games unless you have your console cloaned again. Not a massive problem, tbh. Sony will probably make a small software or hardware change to fix it in a few months.

 

[Alkastelca]

So they clone the primary account which bought games right ?
What happens when all of them are going online at the same time ? Shouldn't they just sign out each other constantly since only one can be online at the time ?


Now I'm thinking the seller/retailer probably never gives you the password (for his cloned profile) so you can't go online with it or get banned.
To go online you need to create a new profile or use your own right ?
With that I imagine Sony has a very hard time at guessing that anything is wrong. It's genius really : )

The only thing I fear is if sony in order to fight this starts locking up primary profile content that would suck.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

^^
They go online with their own accounts, but can play the games from the cloned account because it is the consoles master account, and games on it can be played by anyone. This allows them to play those games online, update them and earn trophies like any other game. It also means they can continue to buy legit games for the system and play them no problem.

 

[Frodo]

So they clone the primary account which bought games right ?
What happens when all of them are going online at the same time ? Shouldn't they just sign out each other constantly since only one can be online at the time ?


Now I'm thinking the seller/retailer probably never gives you the password (for his cloned profile) so you can't go online with it or get banned.
To go online you need to create a new profile or use your own right ?
With that I imagine Sony has a very hard time at guessing that anything is wrong. It's genius really : )

The only thing I fear is if sony in order to fight this starts locking up primary profile content that would suck.

^^
They go online with their own accounts, but can play the games from the cloned account because it is the consoles master account, and games on it can be played by anyone. This allows them to play those games online, update them and earn trophies like any other game. It also means they can continue to buy legit games for the system and play them no problem.

So... wow... the hole is deeper than I initially thought.

 

[Alkastelca]

^^
They go online with their own accounts, but can play the games from the cloned account because it is the consoles master account, and games on it can be played by anyone. This allows them to play those games online, update them and earn trophies like any other game. It also means they can continue to buy legit games for the system and play them no problem.

Just as I thought.

And the seller never gives them the password of the cloned account right ?
With that they can't go online, get banned or just change the password and fucking up everything. So in order to play online they simply have to use their own account and with that there is no way to alert sony that something is off.

When this goes international the PS4 console numbers will skyrocket lol

 

[Pacotera]

explain more...?

I cant for now cause the one who passed the guide is making money out of it. I dont endorse it but i was curious and so he gave me the guide.

Prolly this weekend i will get a PS4 to give him bloodborne to test it out the method.

But im sure it will leak very very soon... and patched even sooner....

Just as I thought.

And the seller never gives them the password of the cloned account right ?
With that they can't go online, get banned or just change the password and fucking up everything. So in order to play online they simply have to use their own account and with that there is no way to alert sony that something is off.

When this goes international the PS4 console numbers will skyrocket lol

Exactly... if user were to log on into the master account holding the games, they would instantly lock themselves.... thats why every ps4 that this "exploit" was done, has the mian account password locked.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

The link describes the actual process.

They clone the hard drive and then flash the new PS4 with the original PS4's NAND/BIOS. The new PS4 is then basically the old PS4, with the licenses for the 10 games available for offline play.

I guess the one big thing is that your PS4 is basically useless other than for playing those 10 games and perhaps other disc based games after the process... but then again, I suppose that was the case with PS3 piracy/CFW as well.

I figure that Sony must have some way to adjust the licensing process to prevent this from happening... either that, or basically force the always online thing that we've been afraid of since the announcement of the original Xbox One. Or maybe this is so minor that they won't bother alienating everyone to try to stop a few hackers/pirates.

Wait how the fuck are the writing to the ps4 nand

 

[Yurikerr]

I think that the only way Sony can check this is if they check the primary account every time the console is connected to the internet.

I think they already have this check in place, because if you start playing on an account that isn't the primary (game owner) and your internet connection drop you receive an alert that the license can't be verified and the game will shutdown in 15 minutes.

As the cloned games are always digital they need to be verified every time the player starts a new game and can only run with the console online.

The only way to prevent this is if the PS4 is set as primary on the cloned account, but i imagine that Sony has a way to know how many PS4's are registered as master for a unique account.

 

[Permanently A]

"It needs to be emphasized that this is not the well known “account sharing” trick"

What account sharing trick? Shareplay?

 

[Pacotera]

Wait how the fuck are the writing to the ps4 nand

I checked and the method is leaked on websites already

You can use a teensy ++ 2.0 or a Raspberry Pi with JAIPI (http://www.psdevwiki.com/ps4/JAISPI) to read/erase/write

its simple as fuck and it was not patched on 2.51

perhaps on the next patch

 

[Hans.Gruber]

Yep, that sounds like Brazilians in Miami =P

The imported products price in brazil is a very complicated problem. Because we have three of the worst causes:

1-Exorbitant taxes (i would even call it criminal)
2-Greed companies
3-Product demand (everyone wants to show the band new iPhone)

When you combine this 3 aspects you get prices like $1200 iPhones and $1350 PS4.

I know people that make a living by travelling to USA and bringing the most amount of macbooks/iPhones/iPads as they can prayiing to not get caught by the customs.

Oh I can totally believe that! Actually they were selling huge suitcases in kiosks every 20 meters and the same amount of currency exchanges was also there.
The situation there must be terrible if prices are like that. As a German I think USA is pretty cheap if you buy Apple stuff, Tommy Hilfiger or other American stuff, but Hugo Boss, BMW or Braun is cheaper in Germany so that equals out. But Brazil prices SMH...

"It needs to be emphasized that this is not the well known “account sharing” trick"

What account sharing trick? Shareplay?

Nah, you can pretty much share a digital game license with a friend. You buy FIFA, he buys CoD and each one of you has both.
It's totally legal and I do it on X1 and PS4 with a friend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVunrnB3FUo

 

[KnockOneOff]

Wow if the ps4 is cracked already then god dam!!

 

[stan423321]

"It needs to be emphasized that this is not the well known “account sharing” trick"

What account sharing trick? Shareplay?

No, abusing either the PS4's "everybody can play the game on account's primary device" or PS3's "for download on 5/2 PS3 systems" clause.

 

[Permanently A]

No, abusing either the PS4's "everybody can play the game on account's primary device" or PS3's "for download on 5/2 PS3 systems" clause.

Oh I can totally believe that! Actually they were selling huge suitcases in kiosks every 20 meters and the same amount of currency exchanges was also there.
The situation there must be terrible if prices are like that. As a German I think USA is pretty cheap if you buy Apple stuff, Tommy Hilfiger or other American stuff, but Hugo Boss, BMW or Braun is cheaper in Germany so that equals out. But Brazil prices SMH...



Nah, you can pretty much share a digital game license with a friend. You buy FIFA, he buys CoD and each one of you has both.
It's totally legal and I do it on X1 and PS4 with a friend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVunrnB3FUo

Oh I had no ideal that was a thing. Cool!

 

[Hans.Gruber]

No, abusing either the PS4's "everybody can play the game on account's primary device" or PS3's "for download on 5/2 PS3 systems" clause.

There is no abuse happening. I have a law degree and checked the terms of both MS and Sony on that issue myself. Totally legal.
It's just a way for them to make digital purchases more attractive.

Oh I had no ideal that was a thing. Cool!

Yeah I guess Sony and MS don't really advertise that feature, to not piss off retailers.

 

[KnockOneOff]

^^
They go online with their own accounts, but can play the games from the cloned account because it is the consoles master account, and games on it can be played by anyone. This allows them to play those games online, update them and earn trophies like any other game. It also means they can continue to buy legit games for the system and play them no problem.

Wasn't there something like this on the 360 scene where you copied over a gamertag with the digital titles and it allowed you to play it??

Hell if they have found a way in the ps4 already it will surely only become a year long battle with Sony patching and the crackers cracking and then finally the crackers making something so easy for anyone to do

I'm supprised this happened since the Wii U and vita haven't been cracked yet, guess the market is much smaller though

 

[Permanently A]

There is no abuse happening. I have a law degree and checked the terms of both MS and Sony on that issue myself. Totally legal.
It's just a way for them to make digital purchases more attractive.



Yeah I guess Sony and MS don't really advertise that feature, to not piss off retailers.

Does one game count as two copies? Like if I buy Bloodborne, can I share it with my friend and then can we both play at the same time?

That is pretty cool if so.

 

[DD]

Damn, I'm a thief.

Making auctions with stolen hearts, huh?

 

[PapaEmeritus]

This is much faster than Ps3. Ps3 was untouched for years.

This is more of a PC.

 

[Hans.Gruber]

Does one game count as two copies? Like if I buy Bloodborne, can I share it with my friend and then can we both play at the same time?

That is pretty cool if so.

Yes, to make it simple: Console A = You / Console B = Your buddy

You buy Bloodborne and login into A with his credentials. Then you activate A as his primary PS4. You do the same thing with your credentials for B.
Now he can access your library with his account because its your primary console and you can still play bloodborne because you are logged in with your account at his primary PS4.
No restrictions or nothing.

 

[DD]

Look at my username, Spanish for The Raven. Obviously I like latinos. I married one!!!

"I'm not racist. I even have a black friend!"

 

[sensui-tomo]

Yes, to make it simple: Console A = You / Console B = Your buddy

You buy Bloodborne and login into A with his credentials. Then you activate A as his primary PS4. You do the same thing with your credentials for B.
Now he can access your library with his account because its your primary console and you can still play bloodborne because you are logged in with your account at his primary PS4.
No restrictions or nothing.

You have to be always online i thought on the non-primary account, and if sony is doing maintenance like the other night and you cant log in to psn, you cant play.

 

[Permanently A]

Yes, to make it simple: Console A = You / Console B = Your buddy

You buy Bloodborne and login into A with his credentials. Then you activate A as his primary PS4. You do the same thing with your credentials for B.
Now he can access your library with his account because its your primary console and you can still play bloodborne because you are logged in with your account at his primary PS4.
No restrictions or nothing.

Awesome. Thanks for the guide. I guess from now on we can split the cost of games! Wish I had known about this earlier.

 

[Hans.Gruber]

You have to be always online i thought on the non-primary account, and if sony is doing maintenance like the other night and you cant log in to psn, you cant play.

I was talking about usage restrictions in a vacuum. But yes, you can only access the games your buddy bought when you don't have online connectivity.
It's a pain in the ass on PS4 because if you are not online they suspend the game. On X1 you can create a hotspot with your phone for a minute, launch the game, disconnect the phone hotspot and you're good.

Awesome. Thanks for the guide. I guess from now on we can split the cost of games! Wish I had known about this earlier.

You are welcome. I highly recommend it. For me this method works 100% on both consoles, even DLC and BETA access is shared. But I highly advise you to do some research on your own if this is for you.
You also need to keep in mind stuff like (see above).

 

[Stacey]

So in its current state does this "hack" include the option of cheating ingame?

 

[BumblebeeCody]

Just wait for the YouTube video of it.