ParaSeoul
Member
Soon.
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New Sony 2022 TVs reveal on January 4 2022
- Thread starter kyliethicc
- Start date
- News
Dream-Knife
Banned
Soon? This thread is about the new models for this next year.
All of those models will say 8K before then. Average consumers are pulled in by 8k more than "our XLED has 15% better blacks, etc".
ParaSeoul
Member
Soon.
Kabelly
Member
i literally just got convinced by watching a bunch of reviews to get the C1. I'm still on a nice 1080p Sony Bravia that still has great picture quality, but I'm starting to fiend for the next gen.
ParaSeoul
Member
I also love how your argument is the average consumer is dumb and will pick the worse option because of the bigger number. Most enthusiasts will go for OLED and will probably convert a good amount of normies too.
Fess
Member
Hmm okay yeah it seems to be a thing. Plus, some kind of panel lottery going by one video?
Rocco Schiavone
Member
The best LCD on the market is powered by a mini LED backlight. Sony better step up next year.
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dotnotbot
Member
Quantum TV is an (in)famous clown who spreads misinformation about TVs. Take everything he says with a truck full of salt.
Nowadays the only brand that has slight issues with black crush is LG (2021 models, 2020 were fine) but you can improve that with settings. Sony is usually a bit too bright near-black, Panasonic has the best balance due to best factory calibration but is no longer available in US.
OLEDs had issues with black crush in the past because older panels, up to 2018 or so, had low bit depth in the near-blacks and bigger issues with flashing/overshoot that needed to be masked with a slight darkening.
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Mister Wolf
Member
Right. The proponents of OLED only ever talk about the positives. Expect attacks on people that report its flaws.
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dotnotbot
Member
You know that LCDs can also have bad black crush out of box? Not to mention many FALD LCDs will crush near-black details in order to keep blooming at a lower level, some LG NanoCells for example, Samsung TVs were also well-known to do that.
It's all a matter of how good the factory calibration is (and dimming algorithm in case of FALD LCDs). Panasonic OLEDs show that these panels can be pretty much perfectly calibrated. Sony is like the opposite of LG and comes out of black a bit too fast, which makes it closer to plasma near-black handling, so if you're worried about missing out on near-black details and don't want to spend money on professional calibration, Sony is usually recommended.
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Kuranghi
Member
In what content does that bother you? I always preferred the dark corners and cleaner overall panel to Samsung's non-dark corners but dirtier screen.
lostinblue
Banned
Agree to disagree based on what you know.
SyberWolf
Member
for me it is the other way around, my samsung has serious black crush that i cant even fix with the settings, my LG C1 has great blacks after tweaking the settings and turning off the power saving stuff.
Gameplaylover
Member
E
Yes, Samsung has some DSE, but i only see it with huge monochrome areas + horizontal movement.
Every content except movies with black bars. It's like an accident, i don't want to look at it, but i still do.
Yes, Samsung has some DSE, but i only see it with huge monochrome areas + horizontal movement.
ethomaz
Banned
Still the best TVs for games are OLED.
lostinblue
Banned
We never know which way a technology is going to go, but I'd say skip current OLED's at least. O stands for organic, and thus, it decays. (Note, QD-LED is bound to be very similar in this regard)
MicroLED is basically OLED without the organic part of the equation, hours to half-life are bound to increase quite a bit and with it attainable brightness without doubling pixels.
It's also structurally simpler:
Note that the image shows the diagram of the archetype of an OLED, that makes it more in line with AMOLED and less with the WOLED-CF tech LG bought from Kodak and uses.
The difference is that the LG method replaces the light emitting layers with white diodes, adds an extra subpixel (for white/brightness) and then put's a color filter on the rest of them to make red, green and blue. It is therefore slightly more complex.
That makes the odds of it being deployed everywhere and effectively replacing OLED high, if patent issues don't rear their ugly head in. (Which is something OLED has definitely suffered from, also no competition within a technology is also bad for us consumers so here's hoping we're not stuck with a single manufacturer again)
On the other side of things, and perhaps as a stopgap; Apple is already jumping on Mini LED (the iPad Pro this year launched with it, as did the Macbook Pro's) and once that catches up, gaming monitors will be mini led and not OLED for the foreseeable future. I expect it to be a thing on some good television sets and something I would personally prefer to buy over OLED. It has the potential to trump current OLED's in motion handling (specially if they use 480 Hz panels and some smart BFI handling) and otherwise better overall brightness, better lifespan too.
Know that in the ipad/macbook pro they didn't go mini LED because they thought OLED was better for their purpose or they would have gone OLED instead, it's the other way around. OLED is just not a good fit for still images/elements.
Sure.
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Kuranghi
Member
Will be good to see the new sets, I'm hoping for mini-LED and QD-OLED models for new hotness.
Good night sweet Sony 4K LCD, your time is done:
I mean, lets be honest, it was kinda done in 2018, they had good new motion tech (X-Motion Clarity BFI) in 2018 but no premium-level FALD backlight zone counts like 2016 & 2017. Even the non-Z XE94 had more zones than the 75" ZF9. In 2019 the super-high end focus became focused on 8K LCD and OLED.
On the plus side for me IDGAF because I have a ZD9:
Good night sweet Sony 4K LCD, your time is done:
I mean, lets be honest, it was kinda done in 2018, they had good new motion tech (X-Motion Clarity BFI) in 2018 but no premium-level FALD backlight zone counts like 2016 & 2017. Even the non-Z XE94 had more zones than the 75" ZF9. In 2019 the super-high end focus became focused on 8K LCD and OLED.
On the plus side for me IDGAF because I have a ZD9:
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Who cares? LED/LCD's will still be made.And how many OLEDs?
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Matches and gasoline should never be near each other.
Solarstrike
Member
Why not integrate the Playstation 5/6/7 right into the television itself?
Kuranghi
Member
If you don't go with the new stuff then the 2021 Sony X95J is better than your XE93 I'd say. Its a better upgrade than any 2021 Samsung except maybe the QN90/94/95A, where blooming is less but there are more things in Sony's favour overall imo.
Next year, for Sony, I think there will be really expensive TVs (QD-OLED) that are a massive jump over XE93 in almost every way and affordable ones that are a great jump over your TV in almost every way but probably only OLED (Not QD-OLED) is a massive and affordable jump next year for you. You'll lose quite a bit of impact from bright HDR scenes though so I'd still keep the XE93 somewhere for best of both worlds.
AGRacing
Member
I used to ONLY buy Sony TVs for over a decade. X850 disappointed over and over again. I now own an LG C9. It will take LG screwing up and Sony having a few good consecutive years of not selling products with advertised features "coming in an update" to turn that tide back again.
Kuranghi
Member
TV's are primarily made for customers watching via broadcast, hdmi input and streaming apps. That would be a terrible waste of money imo.
Kuranghi
Member
Whats an X850? What year is it from?
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Sounds like a Edge Lit subpar set.
Kuranghi
Member
It definitely is I'm sure but wanted to know exactly. Probably 450 nits, edge-lit with X1 processor or maybe even just X-Reality Pro (wtf name).
PerfectDark
Banned
Sony and Vizio been scamming buyers for the last few years. Both brands should be avoided.
kyliethicc
Member
Good news is the C1 and A80J will both go on sale around March / April to clear inventory when the new models come in.
The longer you can wait, the better deal you can find.
kyliethicc
Member
My brother is an average consumer. He just bought a LG C1 OLED because he was amazed by the image quality. The contrast and color when looking at it in person. No math required when your eyes see the difference clear. And he was coming from a 1080p SDR LCD. The leap was massive.
8K wouldn't have sold that TV. He barely has any 4K sources yet, but the IQ on OLED was so impressive that he wanted it.
I kinda doubt any of Sony's LCDs will be Mini LED. Maybe the 8K model, but the X90K is just gonna be a FALD LED LCD like the X90J.
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AGRacing
Member
You're right , sorry. X850C. I bought it in 2015 and finally had enough of it in 2017. It was probably my 5th consecutive Sony TV... but that one SUCKED. I actually replaced it with a Samsung KS8000 in a room that saw more gaming. I would have kept the KS8000 if they had honored their commitment to release an upgraded breakout box.... but they never did... making the idea of the box itself pretty much pointless. Once I made the jump to OLED I realized I was really missing out on the contrast OLED provided... and HDR never reached its true potential without it.
The LG C9 was the only TV with 4 full hdmi 2.1 ports and I'm beyond impressed wirh their support since.... they clearly realize gamers bought their product and make serious efforts to accommodate them via updates... and the hardware quality itself has been excellent. I have been considering jumping to 77" in the next year or two... and at the moment they are my only brand consideration.
StateofMajora
Banned
It begins…
I have to say I don’t like the look of things. Heavy oled focus, no x95 lcd?! If true.
My confidence that the x90k will be anything but a low zone count refresh of the x90j is low
I need a worthy replacement to x900e. Nothing worthy yet.
Why so many oled? Models for both lg and samsung qd oled panels, with and without heatsink perhaps? That would explain 4 models.
I’ll be very happy to be proven wrong on the lcd front.
I have to say I don’t like the look of things. Heavy oled focus, no x95 lcd?! If true.
My confidence that the x90k will be anything but a low zone count refresh of the x90j is low
I need a worthy replacement to x900e. Nothing worthy yet.Why so many oled? Models for both lg and samsung qd oled panels, with and without heatsink perhaps? That would explain 4 models.
I’ll be very happy to be proven wrong on the lcd front.
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StateofMajora
Banned
Shame that, because the x930e was a great tv. Don’t hold your breath for a worthy upgrade…
kyliethicc
Member
Rumors/leaks indicate that ..
A95K = Samsung QD OLED = new flagship OLED model
55" and 65" models.
A90K = LG WRGB OLED + heatsink (like A90J) = high end OLED
55, 65, and 83 models.
A85K = LG WRGB OLED (like A80J) = lower priced, largest OLED
77 and 97(?!) models.
A80K = LG WRGB OLED (like A80J) = lowest priced, smallest OLED
42, 48, 55, and 65 models.
Basically just throwing a halo flagship product on top (A95), while perhaps lowering the price of the A90 model a bit. Then the A80 model is still the main volume product and being expanded into a bunch of sizes, from 42 to 97, with the 77 and 97 being called the A85.
And yeah I bet the X95 LCD will be killed. Don't think they see much demand for it.
StateofMajora
Banned
They know there’s demand, but they have adopted the philosophy of “well if you want the best PQ, we have oled or our Z9 series.” And i’ve come to the conclusion over the past year that lcd is actually better, so it’s damn disappointing how Sony is treating the 4k lcd lineup the last couple years.
If there were no reason for lcd, the z9 wouldn’t exist. But I don’t want such a large set.
Imo part of it is them wanting to get away from lcd more so because China controls most of the supply, at least VA type lcd panels. Korea (LG) mostly makes IPS panels.
Btw, this is why a lot of samsung lcd are starting to use ips or ads panels instead of VA, which is definitely unfortunate.
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kyliethicc
Member
There's not much demand for a 65-85" 4K FALD LED LCD for around $2000-$4000. People would rather just get an OLED, or would want 8K, or would want Mini LED, or would want smaller/larger sizes, or are shopping in a different price range.
I bet the X95J was Sony lowest selling 2021 4K model. I bet the X80J, X85J, X90J, A80J, and A90J all sold more units.
They'll shift their 8K model(s) to Mini LED and eventually just have 1 or 2 budget 4K LCD models. Everything else will be OLED.
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
Hdmi "2.1".
StateofMajora
Banned
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ParaSeoul
Member
Watch HDTVTests comparision vid
Fess
Member
I can’t keep a 65” TV around just for certain HDR content. I want a new TV that can do it all.
That’s all I did up til just recently, he said Sony’s A90J was the best TV, seemed great. But then ended his best of 2021 video by listing scenarios where the TVs would be best, and essentially ended with 4 winners… Sigh.
But then I watched side-by-side comparisons and all OLEDs look dim. Then I started watching videos on black crush just now because of this thread, and… I no longer want an OLED. I’ve never had a problem with pixels not being dark enough so for me it wouldn’t be the right upgrade, I would only notice that it’s not bright enough.
My hope now is that there is something else shown at CES that can give me a great image, great for movies, great for games, great for both dark and bright rooms, VRR, Dolby Vision game mode, 120hz@4K, preferrably without a ton of latency. Let’s see if I have to wait another year for that.
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kyliethicc
Member
Duh. Read what I said. You missed a lot.
And like I get you're mad about OLEDs replacing LCDs, but that's not my problem or anything we can control. The market is shifting and TVs like the Sony X95J are a dying breed. That's why I doubt there will be a Sony X95K. We'll find out on January 4.
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smbu2000
Member
The only issue with mini led is the blooming on dark screens. I haven’t noticed it that much on my 2021 12.9 ipad pro with mini led based on my usage as I don’t usually have black backgrounds with light objects on the screen. It definitely is noticeable when it happens though. My older ipad pro with a regular lcd screen didn’t have any blooming that I noticed.We never know which way a technology is going to go, but I'd say skip current OLED's at least. O stands for organic, and thus, it decays. (Note, QD-LED is bound to be very similar in this regard)
MicroLED is basically OLED without the organic part of the equation, hours to half-life are bound to increase quite a bit and with it attainable brightness without doubling pixels.
It's also structurally simpler:
Note that the image shows the diagram of the archetype of an OLED, that makes it more in line with AMOLED and less with the WOLED-CF tech LG bought from Kodak and uses.
The difference is that the LG method replaces the light emitting layers with white diodes, adds an extra subpixel (for white/brightness) and then put's a color filter on the rest of them to make red, green and blue. It is therefore slightly more complex.
That makes the odds of it being deployed everywhere and effectively replacing OLED high, if patent issues don't rear their ugly head in. (Which is something OLED has definitely suffered from, also no competition within a technology is also bad for us consumers so here's hoping we're not stuck with a single manufacturer again)
On the other side of things, and perhaps as a stopgap; Apple is already jumping on Mini LED (the iPad Pro this year launched with it, as did the Macbook Pro's) and once that catches up, gaming monitors will be mini led and not OLED for the foreseeable future. I expect it to be a thing on some good television sets and something I would personally prefer to buy over OLED. It has the potential to trump current OLED's in motion handling (specially if they use 480 Hz panels and some smart BFI handling) and otherwise better overall brightness, better lifespan too.
Know that in the ipad/macbook pro they didn't go mini LED because they thought OLED was better for their purpose or they would have gone OLED instead, it's the other way around. OLED is just not a good fit for still images/elements.
Sure.
I’d imagine this would be more of an issue with TVs though based on the type of content people use them for.
If you search for “ipad pro blooming” you should see examples of this. The new Macbook Pros 14”/16” with mini led screens also have the blooming issues.
Like this for example:
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Midn1ght
Member
I'm not up to date with Tv tech but are static images still an issue with OLED TV?
I often listen to Lo Fi / Chill music on Youtube in the living room and sometimes let it go for 3 - 4 hours, obviously the image on screen is static and not moving. Would that be bad these TV?
I would jump into OLED for the amazing image quality but the last thing I want is a stress inducing device in the living room, I don't want to be constantly worrying of burn-in and what not.
I often listen to Lo Fi / Chill music on Youtube in the living room and sometimes let it go for 3 - 4 hours, obviously the image on screen is static and not moving. Would that be bad these TV?
I would jump into OLED for the amazing image quality but the last thing I want is a stress inducing device in the living room, I don't want to be constantly worrying of burn-in and what not.
ethomaz
Banned
Cara to give some examples?
Because big nit LCD panels demand are shrinking except for 8k panels but these are very small in numbers yet.
There is big demand for smaller nit LCD to be used as monitor yet.
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StateofMajora
Banned
I didn’t miss anything.
Mini led is just an avenue for more dimming zones ; Sony could also just put more regular sized zones in an hypothetical x95k and achieve similar results if they wish.
I want more zones and it doesn’t matter which form that takes. x95j wasn’t dated because it lacked mini led ; it’s dated because it only has 60 zones.
FeldMonster
Member
Any new TV will look good compared to an ancient 1080p, SDR TV. That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.
StateofMajora
Banned
Samsung 4k qn tv sales.
Oled just doesn’t cut it for hitting those peak hdr highlights and has plenty of other disadvantages like worse motion at 60, 30 and 24fps content. Lcd has lower input lag when using black frame insertion and a high zone count lcd can get perceptually close to oled black level without near black handling issues like banding or near black flashing.
Not to mention currently, lg oled panel quality control is simply poor. Burn in is a factor but frankly it is the least of its issues at this point.
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Mister Wolf
Member
Yes its still an issue. Only a few months of using it as a monitor(static images) and he already has burn-in. Its also silly for him to say he is an "early adopter" when the CX is the best OLED of last year and LG have sold top end OLED TVs since at least 2016.
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StateofMajora
Banned
Strongly disagree if his x93 was working properly it is the better set for motion, image processing and has higher contrast ratio due to a lack of x wide angle filter and he should just keep it vs. the x95j lol.
Input lag is a bit high on x93 though at least at 1080p sources, which gives best hdr image quality on that tv for games.
kyliethicc
Member
Well you're response was telling me that mini LED is used with FALD. As if I didn't know that, so I'm not sure what you were thinking.
At this point I have no idea what you're talking about zones for. The point I made was that there is little appeal for most people in the X95J. Its too expensive for what it delivers. Sony themselves said that they couldn't offer a 55" X95J due to how low it would need to be priced, and because 55" OLEDs can be had at that same price range and are much better, it wouldn't sell. So don't be surprised if they just kill that model off entirely this year. The point of the X90J/K is to have a ~ $1000 55-65" 4K TV that can have decent mass appeal. Fairly cheap to make, good enough picture quality, and significantly less expensive than their A80J 4K OLED. Most people who are looking to drop $1500-$2500 on a 55"-65" 4K TV will just get a LG C1 or Sony A80J. The ideal of the X95, a high end 4K LCD that's similar in price to the A80J, a mid range 4K OLED, is becoming less and less appealing. Too expensive / not good enough.
lostinblue
Banned
No technology is perfect and quality control is often crap when there's no oversupply. They are clearly not binning B stock as B stock, and instead yolo'ing it to meet demand.
It might actually be better on TV's (and PC monitors) for a few reasons though. One, they're not as thin. Thin and uniformity are always tied up, and most uniformity problems one has on a LCD set stem from manufacturers caring more about the TV being thin, than about good uniformity. Second, pixels are bigger on a TV set so the underlying FALD structure can potentially be more spaced apart (hence, easier to align) as the TV is still only 4K. This a commodity you can't pull on a 10/14" 3.5K screen.
If they make the white pixels as big as possible or skip qc though, it is more likely to happen.
Inherent to the tech because the diode half life is so short, MicroLED will be the solution because it skips organic leds altogether.
That's not true. Lots of bad 4K TV sets on the market like the X850C people were talking about a few posts ago. If anything mid-range has gotten shittier on a pixel per pixel basis, because with more pixels they can get away with it. Stuff like 6-bit FRC IPS panels would be way more noticeable in 1080p than they are on 4K, but is is noticeable if you value color stability and color depth.
Anyway specially if you dust up high end plasmas. But some LCD TV's hold their own really well against most of what's on the market today.
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