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[Mejilan]

Haven't paid too much attention to this game; and also haven't played it too much since it hit.
But as I was enjoying a nice NSMBU session while in the can, I bumped into that odd Yoshi creature towards the end of W1.

WTF? Why is it so derpy-lookin' and grotesque?

 

[Reclaimer]

I bumped into that odd Yoshi creature towards the end of W1.

WTF? Why is it so derpy-lookin' and grotesque?

Have you ever seen a baby?

 

[Mejilan]

Babies are adorable. This creature is hideous. :/
Eats like motherfucker, though.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I assume you mean a new style of scoring system more tailored to 2D Mario, maybe like how fast you beat a stage combined with the amount of coins collected to add up to a scoring system, as such it would be like a less pressured coin rush, actually it would be like the scoring system a few of the 3D Sonic titles use, I wouldn't be opposed to this.
Stage mastery is certainly something worth looking into but the scavenger hunt style isn't the way i'd like to see it done here which is what I think of when Yoshi's Island's scoring system is brought up.

Yep, it'd have to be tailored to 2D Mario.

Like: time par, coin par, all red coin sequences completed, and for style maybe hide a 1-up combo somewhere in the course that can be taken at speed.

Also could create several categories of custom goals that are tailored to a particular course type. Like: never fall behind the center of the screen on an auto-scrolling course.

 

[braves01]

Yep, it'd have to be tailored to 2D Mario.

Like: time par, coin par, all red coin sequences completed, and for style maybe hide a 1-up combo somewhere in the course that can be taken at speed.

Also could create several categories of custom goals that are tailored to a particular course type. Like: never fall behind the center of the screen on an auto-scrolling course.

I think they should keep this stuff in challenges. It sounds cool, but the scores is YI (especially the little bouncing stars) were a huge pain and if something like that kept me from getting five stars next to my file I would not be happy.

 

[RagnarokX]

I think they should keep this stuff in challenges. It sounds cool, but the scores is YI (especially the little bouncing stars) were a huge pain and if something like that kept me from getting five stars next to my file I would not be happy.

Let's make players look for red coins, some of which look like yellow coins!

 

[BassForever]

So I hope if Nintendo plans to do another inner connected world in a future 2D Mario game that they do a much better job of inner connecting the worlds and really allow you to explore the world. Really outside of the choosing between going to world 3 or 4 the game this game is pretty much exactly the same as NSMBW in terms of level progression, just replace warp pipes with secret paths which serve the same function...

 

[Bog]

If you're not getting the coins, you're basically playing baby mode. It's an ingenious way of having an in-level difficulty select.

 

[RagnarokX]

So I hope if Nintendo plans to do another inner connected world in a future 2D Mario game that they do a much better job of inner connecting the worlds and really allow you to explore the world. Really outside of the choosing between going to world 3 or 4 the game this game is pretty much exactly the same as NSMBW in terms of level progression, just replace warp pipes with secret paths which serve the same function...

NSMBU's map has more options for level progression than SMW, which people hold as the gold standard.

 

[Kai Dracon]

So I hope if Nintendo plans to do another inner connected world in a future 2D Mario game that they do a much better job of inner connecting the worlds and really allow you to explore the world. Really outside of the choosing between going to world 3 or 4 the game this game is pretty much exactly the same as NSMBW in terms of level progression, just replace warp pipes with secret paths which serve the same function...

Not sure just what they could do that would be a meaty improvement. The world map in Mario World wasn't really that sophisticated, it was smaller than this one. The contiguous world map is just a good thematic device.

And some of the hidden paths provide reasonably impressive non-linearity when replaying, like

Spoiler

being able to go from area 1-2 straight to area 5/Soda Forest

.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

These challenges are killing my soul.

 

[zroid]

So I hope if Nintendo plans to do another inner connected world in a future 2D Mario game that they do a much better job of inner connecting the worlds and really allow you to explore the world. Really outside of the choosing between going to world 3 or 4 the game this game is pretty much exactly the same as NSMBW in terms of level progression, just replace warp pipes with secret paths which serve the same function...

What exactly do you mean by this? I don't really follow in what way you should be able to "explore" the world map. Are you saying you want it to be like Super Mario 64?

 

[Dr.Hadji]

These challenges are killing my soul.

I really like my soul crushing challenges to be in a separate mode like this. And if not a separate mode be an optional or infrequent level in the single player. You get the rigor and nuance like that of Super Meat Boy but without the grinding pacing.

 

[zroid]

I really like my soul crushing challenges to be in a separate mode like this. And if not a separate mode be an optional or infrequent level in the single player. You get the rigor and nuance like that of Super Meat Boy but without the grinding pacing.

That's a good point, it lets you tackle the more difficult aspects of the game at your own pace. If I were just continuously attempting challenge-after-challenge I'd surely get too frustrated to continue.

 

[kinggroin]

These challenges are killing my soul.

Have you beat any of the times I posted? If you don't see them I can send them to you directly in miiiverse.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

These challenges are killing my soul.

I KNOW

AREN'T THEY GREAT

 

[Freezie KO]

All this talk about the challenge levels is making me want this game. I really thought I was too bored of the NSMB mechanics to bite, but these challenge levels... they just sound fun and hard. I might break this weekend.

 

[ShineALight]

I'm to the point of pretty much only having 4 and 5 star challenges left and it takes me twenty minutes or more (sometimes much more) to complete one at this point. Really added a lot of longevity to the game for me, can't say enough good things about their inclusion.

 

[Drago]

I gave up on Challenge mode already. It isn't worth the stress. At most I'll try to beat all challenges 3 stars and under but past that, I know I won't be able to do it.

If all the DLC is dedicated to challenge mode, I'll be a bit disappointed myself. I want new regular levels!

 

[PhoenixDawn]

Dang some of these five stars are really tough to get gold on. Although it's awesome when you finally figure out on your own all of the little tricks to get through the level fast enough to get the gold.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Have you beat any of the times I posted? If you don't see them I can send them to you directly in miiiverse.

You could post them right here.

I KNOW

AREN'T THEY GREAT

Yes in the sense of adding longevity to the game and giving me an immense feeling of satisfaction on completing them.

No in the sense that I'm fairly certain I have fewer years left to live after having played them.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I really like my soul crushing challenges to be in a separate mode like this. And if not a separate mode be an optional or infrequent level in the single player. You get the rigor and nuance like that of Super Meat Boy but without the grinding pacing.

As much as I enjoyed Challenge Mode (highlight of the entire game imo), the recent thread on this style of game (bite-sized consistently high-challenge levels with no penalty for losing) highlights the reason why, at the end of the day, I'm personally not going to enjoy it as much as something like Lost Levels. To me, things like the challenge stages are something you tend to eventually bang your head against until you get lucky and beat it once, then never play again (and especially so with no leaderboard function). That's pretty much exactly my experience with Don't Touch Anything. There was a short period of experimentation figuring out exactly how I was supposed to play it, but once I had that figured out, it was just a matter of constant retries until I got lucky once. Doesn't really feel like I got any better as a player in the process and truly achieved anything other than checking another stage off the list.

On the other hand, I can dust off Lost Levels once in a blue moon and really feel engaged the entire time I play it, despite the fact that NSMBU's challenge mode has several individual tasks that really go above and beyond anything that LL ever asks you to do. I just like the structure of a "long" (for a single-sitting), moderately and consistently challenging adventure with a consequence for losing strong enough to force you keep up the pace. The threat that the game can beat you is valuable to me, can push you to play harder to make up the difference whenever you mess up, and give you higher highs because you have to overcome lower lows. Something with the structure of NSMBU's Challenge mode can't ever achieve that, even if it's fun for what it is.

So I guess, if I wanted them to take this a step further next time around, I'd prefer some kind of expert mode for the main campaign over something like this, even though this was also cool. Something like forcing you to play through the game with no power-ups the whole way through (small Mario run), if not a set of alternate, more difficult stages. That's a big reason why I like multiplayer in these games so much, actually. Being paired with a group that I have to take extra care to coordinate and cooperate with goes a long way to keep the game challenging and fresh every time I play it.

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

I KNOW

AREN'T THEY GREAT

NO THEY CAN DIE IN A FIRE

Spoiler

YES

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The challenges have longevity for me because friends and I send each other messages competing with screenshots.

I guess that matters less on non-timed ones.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Leaderboards would help a lot, although the screenshot sharing function is nice.

 

[Anth0ny]

I think there's a happy medium between the pathetically easy single player level design and the ball busting, Meat Boy-esque difficulty of the challenges.

Like Sixfourtyfive mentioned, the challenges are probably the hardest thing I've ever experienced in a Mario game, even harder than Lost Levels. But it's just a matter of grind grind grind, and finally you'll get lucky and pass the challenge, never to return again.

Don't get me wrong, I love the challenge mode. It's kicking my ass, something I never thought a NSMB game would do. But I still just wish the actual single player was better.

 

[braves01]

I think there's a happy medium between the pathetically easy single player level design and the ball busting, Meat Boy-esque difficulty of the challenges.

Like Sixfourtyfive mentioned, the challenges are probably the hardest thing I've ever experienced in a Mario game, even harder than Lost Levels. But it's just a matter of grind grind grind, and finally you'll get lucky and pass the challenge, never to return again.

Don't get me wrong, I love the challenge mode. It's kicking my ass, something I never thought a NSMB game would do. But I still just wish the actual single player was better.

Considering the balance between casual and hardcore appeal Nintendo is trying to strike with these titles, I think the bifurcation between story mode and challenge mode is probably the best we're going to get.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Don't get me wrong, I love the challenge mode. It's kicking my ass, something I never thought a NSMB game would do. But I still just wish the actual single player was better.

I've completed three worlds and I'm on course to complete a fourth in NSMBU. Honestly, the difficulty curve is steeper and more noticeable in this game than in NSMB DS/Wii. I'm almost shocked by how treacherous some of the level design has been in, say, the Ice and Water worlds. Obviously I'm still at 99 lives because I'm good at Mario games, but I can recognize when there is some challenge to the content. And even when not challenging, the levels are still cleverly designed, with some of the star coins being really satisfying to find.

Nintendo has only gotten better at balancing out their games, given the insistence on having a single difficulty. In the Mario games, I've noticed it both with NSMB Wii and Super Mario Galaxy 2 (over their predecessors). The games start easy and end hard, which is fine since these games are really not meant to alienate unskilled players, but rather provide a nice gradual hike.

So basically, while Nintendo is continually making Mario games harder, they will probably not release another game like Lost Levels. It's unfortunate for the players who truly want their skills tested but at the same time it's preferable for Mario as a whole, since the series counts on being accessible while maintaining a single universal difficulty level.

You're never going to get Meat Boy from the main parts of Mario games. You will at least get good level design which provides more solid challenges as the player progresses.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Spent the last 2 hours beating essentially three different challenge levels.

My thumb and index finger hurt so, so much.

Getting gold in

Spoiler

Lurchin' Urchins

was insane. I started laughing maniacally when I got it. I thought I had cracked.

And it's only three stars!

I tried

Spoiler

Stoneslide Tower Climb

for kicks and, uh, impossible. Shigeyuki Asuke was probably right in saying it becomes possible after seeing someone else do it, which I've held off on so far but may have to do for some of these five starers.

 

[zroid]

It's so depressing seeing people go on about how "easy" this game is when I'm getting Luigi'd every third level

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I tried

Spoiler

Stoneslide Tower Climb

for kicks and, uh, impossible. Shigeyuki Asuke was probably right in saying it becomes possible after seeing someone else do it, which I've held off on so far but may have to do for some of these five starers.

That was the one that prompted this post. It's not too bad once you figure it out. I don't even think I took the best route.

 

[Davey Cakes]

It's so depressing seeing people go on about how "easy" this game is when I'm getting Luigi'd every third level

The people who are REALLY GOOD always desire to be pushed harder, but sometimes forget that a good portion of the participating population aren't on nearly the same skill level.

I actually commend Nintendo for better balancing these games over time. Nothing is a complete cake walk anymore, and many design choices seem like "winks" at the more dedicated crowd.

Another defense of NSMBU's difficulty is that the game has to take 5-player capability into consideration. Make the levels TOO hard and you make it nearly impossible to beat them in multiplayer.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

The people who are REALLY GOOD always desire to be pushed harder, but sometimes forget that a good portion of the participating population aren't on nearly the same skill level.

What gets me is when people go on about how much easier the NSMB series is than SMB3/SMW, when that certainly isn't the case at all. Pretty sure a lot of people lost some perspective after having played the older games for 15+ years.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

645 I get the impression you'd defend Lost Levels no matter the case, it's kind of hard to have a discussion when previously you were trumpeting LL's masterful level design, but then say it's still better than U's challenge levels because it's "the complete package," even when you admit U's levels are harder/better.

There's 80 challenge levels right? Take even half of those and it would be a harder, longer, better game than Lost Levels (which I really do like.)

That was the one that prompted this post. It's not too bad once you figure it out. I don't even think I took the best route.

Well that's the thing, every one of them is "easy" once you figure them out. It's figuring them out that takes 90% of tries. At least for me.

 

[Karsticles]

What gets me is when people go on about how much easier the NSMB series is than SMB3/SMW, when that certainly isn't the case at all. Pretty sure a lot of people lost some perspective after having played the older games for 15+ years.

I've been playing Mario games for 20 years. Why do they keep making them easier? /joke

 

[ThatObviousUser]

To be fair, parts of SMB3 were not cakewalks, but the levels were so short and powerups were so plentiful it rarely mattered.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

645 I get the impression you'd defend Lost Levels no matter the case, it's kind of hard to have a discussion when previously you were trumpeting LL's masterful level design, but then say it's still better than U's challenge levels because it's "the complete package," even when you admit U's levels are harder/better.

There's 80 challenge levels right? Take even half of those and it would be a harder, longer, better game than Lost Levels (which I really do like.)

That's not really what I'm saying. It's not a question of the quality or challenge of level design. It's a question of game structure and pacing.

Tacking the 80 NSMBU Challenges together, giving the player 5 (or however many) lives, and asking him to complete them in succession would be a miserable experience. These levels are designed for a different kind of experience and achieve what they set out to do pretty well.

I'm just saying that in the end, that kind of experience isn't quite as appealing to me as a 1cc challenge of an arcade style or classic 1-hour platform game. I just like the anxiety that you have to overcome from the threat of truly losing in a long play session. Like I said, it gives you the feeling that the game can beat you and is sort of like an adversary to defeat in and of itself. That's not a feeling that challenge mode can provide because there's no penalty for losing and thus not any real risk or reward involved. It's why I don't see myself replaying Challenge mode as much as Lost Levels. Same reason why I never really went for high scores on individual levels of Super Monkey Ball in practice mode as opposed to high score runs and 1cc runs of the entire main game.

It's just a preference. I think challenge mode was really fun for what it is. I'd just take a longer and not-quite-as-ball-busting full campaign over it if given the option.

 

[Always-honest]

It's so depressing seeing people go on about how "easy" this game is when I'm getting Luigi'd every third level

The game is not easy compared to a lot of other super mario games.
It's doable, but not after failing a lot of times.

The challenges are downright challenging.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

That's not really what I'm saying. It's not a question of the quality or challenge of level design. It's a question of game structure and pacing.

Tacking the 80 NSMBU Challenges together, giving the player 5 (or however many) lives, and asking him to complete them in succession would be a miserable experience. These levels are designed for a different kind of experience and achieve what they set out to do pretty well.

I'm just saying that in the end, that kind of experience isn't quite as appealing to me as a 1cc challenge of an arcade style or classic 1-hour platform game. I just like the anxiety that you have to overcome from the threat of truly losing in a long play session. Like I said, it gives you the feeling that the game can beat you and is sort of like an adversary to defeat in and of itself. That's not a feeling that challenge mode can provide because there's no penalty for losing and thus not any real risk or reward involved. It's why I don't see myself replaying Challenge mode as much as Lost Levels. Same reason why I never really went for high scores on individual levels of Super Monkey Ball in practice mode as opposed to high score runs and 1cc runs of the entire main game.

It's just a preference. I think challenge mode was really fun for what it is. I'd just take a longer and not-quite-as-ball-busting full campaign over it if given the option.

I get what you're saying and I agree, however the tone of it just came across weirdly to me. Considering how much you're played and replayed and evangelized Lost Levels, I'm unsure if you can be objective about its faults. By your reasoning, you'd put SMW above the challenge levels in U just because SMW is more straightforward and you risk more by dying.

 

[Anth0ny]

I dunno, I played all the way through SMB3 on the NES for the first time (used warps in the past) and that game kicked my ass. Much more so than any NSMB game.

Hell, even SMB2 USA was pretty challenging.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I get what you're saying and I agree, however the tone of it just came across weirdly to me. Considering how much you're played and replayed and evangelized Lost Levels, I'm unsure if you can be objective about its faults. By your reasoning, you'd put SMW above the challenge levels in U just because SMW is more straightforward and you risk more by dying.

The "challenge" in SMW comes more from getting lost in stupid ghost houses and key hunts than any actual platforming.

I dunno, I played all the way through SMB3 on the NES for the first time (used warps in the past) and that game kicked my ass. Much more so than any NSMB game.

Hell, even SMB2 USA was pretty challenging.

I don't think there's much in SMB3 that's particularly difficult before world 7 or so, which puts it on par with most Super Mario games. There's that really obtuse puzzle in one of the later ice world stages, but nothing else jumps to mind.

 

[CriterionDog]

Is there any reason why this game does not support the Pro Controller? Can't they just map the Gamepad controls to a Pro controller?

 

[Anth0ny]

Is there any reason why this game does not support the Pro Controller? Can't they just map the Gamepad controls to a Pro controller?

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I dunno, I played all the way through SMB3 on the NES for the first time (used warps in the past) and that game kicked my ass. Much more so than any NSMB game.

Hell, even SMB2 USA was pretty challenging.

SMB2 is artificially hard because of lack of continues. That game can eat a bag of dongs for that, and same goes for any game without continues.

I'll take 100 Lost Levels and NSMBU challenge levels before I take a game without infinite continues.

 

[Darko]

As much as I enjoyed Challenge Mode (highlight of the entire game imo), the recent thread on this style of game (bite-sized consistently high-challenge levels with no penalty for losing) highlights the reason why, at the end of the day, I'm personally not going to enjoy it as much as something like Lost Levels. To me, things like the challenge stages are something you tend to eventually bang your head against until you get lucky and beat it once, then never play again (and especially so with no leaderboard function). That's pretty much exactly my experience with Don't Touch Anything. There was a short period of experimentation figuring out exactly how I was supposed to play it, but once I had that figured out, it was just a matter of constant retries until I got lucky once. Doesn't really feel like I got any better as a player in the process and truly achieved anything other than checking another stage off the list.

On the other hand, I can dust off Lost Levels once in a blue moon and really feel engaged the entire time I play it, despite the fact that NSMBU's challenge mode has several individual tasks that really go above and beyond anything that LL ever asks you to do. I just like the structure of a "long" (for a single-sitting), moderately and consistently challenging adventure with a consequence for losing strong enough to force you keep up the pace. The threat that the game can beat you is valuable to me, can push you to play harder to make up the difference whenever you mess up, and give you higher highs because you have to overcome lower lows. Something with the structure of NSMBU's Challenge mode can't ever achieve that, even if it's fun for what it is.

So I guess, if I wanted them to take this a step further next time around, I'd prefer some kind of expert mode for the main campaign over something like this, even though this was also cool. Something like forcing you to play through the game with no power-ups the whole way through (small Mario run), if not a set of alternate, more difficult stages. That's a big reason why I like multiplayer in these games so much, actually. Being paired with a group that I have to take extra care to coordinate and cooperate with goes a long way to keep the game challenging and fresh every time I play it.

How do you slide like that... No wonder i havent been beating the challenges

 

[hongcha]

Is there any reason why this game does not support the Pro Controller? Can't they just map the Gamepad controls to a Pro controller?

It was the same story in the Wii days, games like DKC could have easily had Pro controller controls as an option (which many would have preferred), but Nintendo refused.

 

[Always-honest]

I dunno, I played all the way through SMB3 on the NES for the first time (used warps in the past) and that game kicked my ass. Much more so than any NSMB game.

Hell, even SMB2 USA was pretty challenging.

yeah, so you'd say you are very experienced in this particular type of gameplay right now?

 

[RagnarokX]

The people who are REALLY GOOD always desire to be pushed harder, but sometimes forget that a good portion of the participating population aren't on nearly the same skill level.

I actually commend Nintendo for better balancing these games over time. Nothing is a complete cake walk anymore, and many design choices seem like "winks" at the more dedicated crowd.

Another defense of NSMBU's difficulty is that the game has to take 5-player capability into consideration. Make the levels TOO hard and you make it nearly impossible to beat them in multiplayer.

People also have a tendency to blame games for things that are their fault. NSMBU is not as easy game, and I would rate the challenge level to be the highest since Mario 3. The level design starts getting really good by the end of the 2nd world and keeps getting better. This game actually had me saying "holy shit" at some of the concepts; difficult star coin placement, massive enemy/obstacle barrage, insane boss fight.

I'm sure if the same people went back and played the past Mario games that they cherish they'd be dying just as little as in this game (probably less because there are no star coins to increase risk). Hell, SMW is lauded as some paragon and it is like the easiest Mario game in the franchise after NSMBDS.

I dunno, I played all the way through SMB3 on the NES for the first time (used warps in the past) and that game kicked my ass. Much more so than any NSMB game.

Hell, even SMB2 USA was pretty challenging.

Yeah, SMB3 kicked my ass as a kid even using warps and I never beat it. As an adult I whipped through every level (no warps) and beat the game.

 

[Meatvillain]

It was the same story in the Wii days, games like DKC could have easily had Pro controller controls as an option (which many would have preferred), but Nintendo refused.

The crazier thing here is that NSMBU can be played entirely without motion controls while using the game pad so it seems an even better fit for Pro Controller support.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Challenge mode sounds like something I would have fun with...