Alcibiades
Member
Can't wait to see the DS own when it arrives...
Word-of-mouth on this is super-hot even with some PS2'ers and XBots I know...
Word-of-mouth on this is super-hot even with some PS2'ers and XBots I know...
(Newsweek): Fall of the (Japanese) Video Kings
- Thread starter Rhindle
- Start date
Alcibiades
Member
A year from now, we can go ahead an compare DS vs. PSP sales numbers and see how things stand heading into Christmas '05.
The GBA is slaughtering XBox right now, and within a matter of months could possibly overtake the PS2. The way I see it, Nintendo knows the handheld market well, and if quality of output on the DS is 1/2 of what it is on GBA (from Nintendo themselves), I think they'll be heading into the holidays next year with profit margins rivaling the peak N64/GBC days...
The GBA is slaughtering XBox right now, and within a matter of months could possibly overtake the PS2. The way I see it, Nintendo knows the handheld market well, and if quality of output on the DS is 1/2 of what it is on GBA (from Nintendo themselves), I think they'll be heading into the holidays next year with profit margins rivaling the peak N64/GBC days...
Region isn't Nintendo's problem. Their problem is stifling their market growth by using the same properties over and over. As a fan, that's great for me, and that's not all there is to Nintendo. But for their market, they'll have to grow in terms of properties.
See, I don't think it's really a matter of creating that much more new content. I think it's a matter of marketing everything on their system. No one ever really knows about all the great third party exclusives on GameCube. When Sony first started out branding everyone around the time of FF7, they marketed every exclusive piece of dirt that dragged its butt across Playstation (like I said, FF7). Of course now there's no way they could do that. But Nintendo should use third parties and work on their image. Sony barely had a first party back then (nor even now), but you don't need it. Get exclusives and sell them like a discount whore!
Nintendo is doing things better in the handheld sector. There's little reliance on really old properties, and tons of exclusives, of course. But there's very little branding. Since there's no competition, there's no need for branding, but Nintendo maybe have to change strategy for PSP. I'm worried about that. Granted, DS itself is a strategy against PSP, a clever one in fact (competing with their own hardware), but the image thing could still pose a problem, because Sony's really good with that area.
See, I don't think it's really a matter of creating that much more new content. I think it's a matter of marketing everything on their system. No one ever really knows about all the great third party exclusives on GameCube. When Sony first started out branding everyone around the time of FF7, they marketed every exclusive piece of dirt that dragged its butt across Playstation (like I said, FF7). Of course now there's no way they could do that. But Nintendo should use third parties and work on their image. Sony barely had a first party back then (nor even now), but you don't need it. Get exclusives and sell them like a discount whore!
Nintendo is doing things better in the handheld sector. There's little reliance on really old properties, and tons of exclusives, of course. But there's very little branding. Since there's no competition, there's no need for branding, but Nintendo maybe have to change strategy for PSP. I'm worried about that. Granted, DS itself is a strategy against PSP, a clever one in fact (competing with their own hardware), but the image thing could still pose a problem, because Sony's really good with that area.
Pedigree Chum
Banned
"Sony barely had a first party back then (even now)"
Bullshit@even now bit.
Bullshit@even now bit.
seismologist
Banned
That article is a bit flawed. They used Nintendos loss of console market share this gen as proof that Japanese developers are declining in software sales.
I think the real reason for the shift is there's more mainstream gamers who dont know any better and end up buying games with the most advertisements.
I think the real reason for the shift is there's more mainstream gamers who dont know any better and end up buying games with the most advertisements.
Kobun Heat
Member
But that's how so many American publishers/developers are raking in the cash. What's the difference?Dragmire said:
fennec fox
ferrets ferrets ferrets ferrets FERRETS!!!
That statement is a bit flawed.seismologist said:
Kobun Heat said:
reaaaaally?
How many Zelda games have there been?
How many Mario games have there been?
How many Donkey Kong games have there been?
How many Metal Gear games have there been?
How many Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest games have there been?
Now start counting how many Halo games, how many GTA games, how many x games are there?
GTA has 6 (if you count GTA: London, but it only became extremely popular by the 3rd iteration)
The only other games I can recall having so many sequels is the Quest games, and that's from a publishing label that went defunct. Heck, unless you're figuring in sports games which would be retarded, the western development community doesn't really sit on it's laurels and use the same licenses over and over and over.
DopeyFish said:
Please take into consideration the time between sequels and the overall quality of the games. There's nothing wrong with a sequel if it builds on the previous game, and maintains quality. Something each of the franchises you listed has done.
(And what the guy below me said. These franchises also have a much, much bigger head start on the likes of Halo and GTA. If you're going to compare and contrast, Wayne, do it fairly.
)Dopey your own logic is silly. There will be 3 Ratchet n Clank games this generation at the least. Year by Year a new one. There has been 4 Tony Hawk's and skateboarding doesn't even have seasons to coincide with. Still, Year by Year. Tom Clancy games? Dear lord.
There has been 6 Zelda games on major home consoles since the NES days. So that's 6 in 20 years and 4 console generations. Let's continue: 3 Starfox games in 3 generations, 7 mario games in 4 generations, 4 Metroid games in 4 generations, 4 Metal Gears in 4 generations and yes 13 Final Fantasies in 4 generations.
There has been 6 GTA games in 2 generations, 6 Twisted Metal games in 2 generations, 12 Tom Clancy games in 2 generation, 7 Medal of Honor games in 2 generations and 10 Need for Speed games in 2 generations. By the end of this cycle, Tom Clancy or Need for Speed will equal what Final Fantasy has done over 20 years in nearly a quarter of the time.
There is a huge difference between a new installment in a franchise with each generation and a new installment in a franchise with each year.
There has been 6 Zelda games on major home consoles since the NES days. So that's 6 in 20 years and 4 console generations. Let's continue: 3 Starfox games in 3 generations, 7 mario games in 4 generations, 4 Metroid games in 4 generations, 4 Metal Gears in 4 generations and yes 13 Final Fantasies in 4 generations.
There has been 6 GTA games in 2 generations, 6 Twisted Metal games in 2 generations, 12 Tom Clancy games in 2 generation, 7 Medal of Honor games in 2 generations and 10 Need for Speed games in 2 generations. By the end of this cycle, Tom Clancy or Need for Speed will equal what Final Fantasy has done over 20 years in nearly a quarter of the time.
There is a huge difference between a new installment in a franchise with each generation and a new installment in a franchise with each year.
Why would it be retarded to figure in sports games again? I don't follow. One of the reasons EA is doing so well is because of their sports games.
That and games like the Sims - and you know how many expansions THAT game has.
Anyway, if we're talking western games with lots of sequels; Mortal Kombat is up to number 6, and one spin-off - Mythologies.
They're on the 5th Prince of Persia.
6, actually - Tony Hawk 1-4 and then THUG 1 and 2.
MightyHedgehog
Member
I'm not going to go into weird specifics about this, but, this gen, I've been excited about more western-developed titles than Japanese ones. Last gen (PS1, Saturn, N64), this was not the case at all. Not that it's about who makes it, but rather, what they make. There's tons of milking happening on 'both sides,' though.
Alcibiades
Member
Uh, I don't buy this crap that's there's too much Mario and Zelda out there, they aren't the same games this gen if they share the namesake for more than one Cube title.
Mario games on N64: 1
Mario games on Cube: 1
Metroid games on N64: 0
Metroid games on Cube: 2
GTA games on PS2: 3
uh, Mario Tennis, Mario Kart, etc... aren't even "Mario" titles and are aimed at multiplayer and party audiences, you can't even start to compare. If anything, Nintendo has been conservative with rehashing, choosing to launch with Pikmin and Luigi's Mansion (Miyamoto even said this was a move to directly challenge the notion that Nintendo was basically just Mario and Zelda).
Even with Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, etc... Nintendo has only released on per generation, even when gamers and fans are clamoring for more and Nintendo would in the short-term get some easy revenue off releasing games changing things up a bit with existing game engines, ensuring that development wouldn't be costly.
You can point to the Mario Party series, but my guess is Nintendo feels as long as new gameplay can be added to each one (mini-game wise), it's not rehashing (and it isn't). Even them, give them credit for stopping shipments of a previous version once a new one hits...
Mario games on N64: 1
Mario games on Cube: 1
Metroid games on N64: 0
Metroid games on Cube: 2
GTA games on PS2: 3
uh, Mario Tennis, Mario Kart, etc... aren't even "Mario" titles and are aimed at multiplayer and party audiences, you can't even start to compare. If anything, Nintendo has been conservative with rehashing, choosing to launch with Pikmin and Luigi's Mansion (Miyamoto even said this was a move to directly challenge the notion that Nintendo was basically just Mario and Zelda).
Even with Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, etc... Nintendo has only released on per generation, even when gamers and fans are clamoring for more and Nintendo would in the short-term get some easy revenue off releasing games changing things up a bit with existing game engines, ensuring that development wouldn't be costly.
You can point to the Mario Party series, but my guess is Nintendo feels as long as new gameplay can be added to each one (mini-game wise), it's not rehashing (and it isn't). Even them, give them credit for stopping shipments of a previous version once a new one hits...
efralope said:
AniHawk said:
In all fairness, though, the "Mario games" do consist of a variety of completely unique game series... at this point, I don't think you can validly point the "sequel" card at them as a group, but only at each series. While they do feature the same cast, it would be hard to argue that Paper Mario, Super Mario Sunshine, Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, and Mario Party are all part of the same series.
DavidDayton said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Mario is a franchise, isn't it? Mario Golf 64, Mario Golf, Mario Golf: Advance Tour, Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour are all part of the Mario Golf series.
Likewise with Super Mario Bros 1-4, Super Mario 64, and Super Mario Sunshine. They're part of the Super Mario series.
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, and Paper Mario 2: The Thousand-Year Door are all part of the Super Mario RPG series, etc, etc. All are part of the Mario franchise.
Alcibiades
Member
or even aimed at the same audience...DavidDayton said:
I think Mario Sunshine is aimed around the 12 and up group IMO (and that pushing it considering the difficulty)
Luigi's Mansion is more geared towards all ages, but has a much younger audience than Mario Sunshine, and I think parents and kids (through word of mouth) have defaulted that as a good introductory game for kids rather than Mario Sunshine.
Paper Mario requires basic reading ability.
The rest are pretty much aimed toward being social/family games for all ages...
Alcibiades
Member
Well, in fairness, you're looking way back to even the 80's there, and the arguement was that Nintendo kept on rehasing.AniHawk said:
I consider the "Mario-RPG" series in the same line like you, but come on, they were each on a different system.
There were 3 "Mario" games on NES, 2 on SNES, 1 on N64, and 1 on GCN, hardly what you'd call excessive, especially since the NES games were clearly simplier in design and quicker to get through...
Also, the same thing goes for Mario Golf, Mario Tennis and Mario Kart. Having one per system to casual/social/party/family-type gamers can enjoy them is a legitimate case IMO, and not a sign of a company that only rehashes. In fact, they do a good job of keeping the handheld versions sometimes for 1p oriented by nature of design...
AniHawk said:
Yah, but I'm just of the mindset that it's hard to argue that ALL "Mario" games mean "too much Mario"... there are several different game series within the "Mario franchise", and each one represents and entirely different game.
* Super Mario ____ (Platformer)
* Mario Kart
* Mario Sports (?)
* Mario Party
* Mario RPG (Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, etc..)
I'm just saying that I don't think the "too much" arguement works when there isn't as much a single series of Mario titles as there are several different franchises/series of Mario games. Are we saying that simply having Mario present is evidence of "milking"? I've always assumed that each of those catagories represents an entirely different gaming experience and series, and that you can't really lump them all together.
(Then again, I'm a Mario fanatic, so I'm not sure if you can trust my judgement on this.)
But the argument isn't even needed, considering that the top selling American title last year was from the Madden franchise. If unique titles dominated the charts, it is what everyone would be making.
Instead we get Ty 2, Crash Twinsanity, Def Jam 2, Halo 2, Ratchet 3, Jak 3, Burnout 3, THUG2.
Yes, the Japanese are the only culture that reuses characters as a base to sell games.
Instead we get Ty 2, Crash Twinsanity, Def Jam 2, Halo 2, Ratchet 3, Jak 3, Burnout 3, THUG2.
Yes, the Japanese are the only culture that reuses characters as a base to sell games.
The reason there is so many Mario ___ sort of games is because it helps sales. You could have totally different characters in any of those games and they'd still be fun. They'd just lack brand recognition and thus sales. What the games have done though is brought in some new characters and also kept some older characters alive.
Mario Golf has characters that only appear in that franchise, while Tennis introduced Waluigi who then went on to Mario Kart. Mario Kart also keeps Lakitu alive more than the main Mario franchise does. He's supposedly a camera in Mario 64 and Sunshine, but you don't see him like you do in Mario Kart.
It's a double edged sword though. People want new franchises from Nintendo and roll their eyes once they see another Mario ___ game, but the financial risk without Mario is much greater. They are still new games being created, but they are generally discounted because they have familiar characters.
Mario Golf has characters that only appear in that franchise, while Tennis introduced Waluigi who then went on to Mario Kart. Mario Kart also keeps Lakitu alive more than the main Mario franchise does. He's supposedly a camera in Mario 64 and Sunshine, but you don't see him like you do in Mario Kart.
It's a double edged sword though. People want new franchises from Nintendo and roll their eyes once they see another Mario ___ game, but the financial risk without Mario is much greater. They are still new games being created, but they are generally discounted because they have familiar characters.
Well, people are VERBALLY disappointed, but really sales fail to show that sentiment. When people like a game, it's rare to see them post about them enjoying it. Negativity is just more commonplace. Sadly, some people are too stupid to realize it's not how the world is actually balanced.
Date of Lies
Banned
But what about Megaman?
start countin' boyees.
Japanese games will pick up later on. But let's not kid ourselves, GTA:SA and Halo 2 are the big boys this holiday season, hell even Metroid Prime: Echoes is american, and what's that saying? "Hmn, the Americans, they like the FPS games right?"
I'd be more worried about the fact that gaming sales in Japan are falling.
As for America, I just really hope GTA:SA doesn't sell better than GTA:VC.
start countin' boyees.
Japanese games will pick up later on. But let's not kid ourselves, GTA:SA and Halo 2 are the big boys this holiday season, hell even Metroid Prime: Echoes is american, and what's that saying? "Hmn, the Americans, they like the FPS games right?"
I'd be more worried about the fact that gaming sales in Japan are falling.
As for America, I just really hope GTA:SA doesn't sell better than GTA:VC.
That is just naive and misinformed. The rise of EA is a major factor but only one of many:JJConrad said:
1. Activision has turned itself around and developed a multiple strong franchises like THPS and Spiderman.
2. Microsoft was not a factor previously and now is a major player in console publishing.
3. Take2/Rockstar: They may be a one-trick pony, but boy is it a good trick.
4. Ubisoft has transformed itself from a mediocre bit player to being arguably the finest publisher in the business.
5. THQ has done very well with licensed games and lately has started producing quality titles like FSW.
6. Smaller publishers like Bethesda and Blizzard have built a name for themselves.
7. The movie studios have gotten in the game and are now a major force. Vivendi Universal are a major publisher and the others are now looking to follow suit.
ManDudeChild
Member
I think developers from all corners of the world have done some great things over the years but, as far as Japanese developers go, I think a bit of change would be nice. It's something all sides are guilty of to some extent (and Japanese games are just as innovative and impressive as western), but I'm a bit tired of the "busy work" that's put into many games nowadays. It seems to happen more in Japanese games but, for example, the millions of mini-games in role-playing games, or pointless things. I'm all for variety, but often these things just aren't fun. An example of this done right imo was the endurance battles in Rygar, and wrong would be crap like the affection stuff and "Uncle" game in Tales Of Symphonia. That's not to say I don't enjoy something that works on memory and other mental tasks, but like I said, make the side stuff fun. Don't make it seem like WORK. Games aren't supposed to be work.
Japanese game developers lagging behind the Western ones is both good and bad. On one hand it might push them into coming up with new concepts and ideas, but on the other hand...this could mean we would see Japanese devs making the same type of games as the Western developers, eventually turning into Wannabe-Western-developers and I don't like the sound of that. They should stick to their own style. A game industry without Japanese developers would make me sad.
Alcibiades
Member
I agree with all the points you made, the market is just more than EA, the thing is though, EA has almost a monthly hit dominating the charts, while the rest have scattered success (some monster though like GTA and Halo).Rhindle said:
Activision and UbiSoft are 100% legitimate contenders and although EA doesn't need to fear them, they seem to be under good management that will keep them vying for 3rd party sales and are easily EA's most stable 3rd party challengers.
THQ is great, but IMO there is an overreliance on kids GBA titles (and some non-kiddy titles from Sega and Microsoft).
You are right about Take-Two, but I have a feeling at some point the GTA thing might start getting tired (maybe even starting this fall), but they'll have stuff like Sega Sports and budget stuff to help them out.
All-in-all though, the market has grown for Western 3rd parties, but because of the complexity involved in today's games, has put the agenda on basically 4-5 major players (and really, when you look at the sales charts it's basically EA/Activions/UbiSoft, with THQ and Take-Two doing great but have less stable lineups IMO).
Many 3rd parties are either down in the dumps (like Midway and LucasArts), or are now bankrupt (3DO and Acclaim). Because of the consolidation and fiernce competition in 3d-gaming, so many developers and publishers have disappeared. Acclaim and Midway closed down some great studios (including San Fransisco Rush developer Atari Games) in during their financially difficult times.
IMO, Western games are bigger, but the market belongs to fewer companies.
Good news (increase of western presence) i've spent most of my money on western games, and it looks like its going to continue.
Hope Midway and Ubi benefit from this.
Fable was wonderful, Id like to see more games like it in the future. Just expand on what BBB introduced with Fable
Hope Midway and Ubi benefit from this.
Society said:
Fable was wonderful, Id like to see more games like it in the future. Just expand on what BBB introduced with Fable
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Date of Lies said:
Why?
At the moment, that scary quote about licenses or super-realistic graphics is spot on. Games like GTA are bringing in the punters.
But that will pass, and those people will want something else. Otherwise the market will simply be stifled by hundreds of stealth-em-ups, or GTA clones.
The games industry is a lot about bandwagon jumping. The next big thing like GTA or Splinter Cell will drive a lot of the marketplace - that next big thing could just as likely come from Japan as the west.
But that will pass, and those people will want something else. Otherwise the market will simply be stifled by hundreds of stealth-em-ups, or GTA clones.
The games industry is a lot about bandwagon jumping. The next big thing like GTA or Splinter Cell will drive a lot of the marketplace - that next big thing could just as likely come from Japan as the west.
ravingloon
Member
Joe said:
I agree. But that said, Japan produces a ton of great games that aren't RPGs, while the west, well the west produces a ton of great FPS.
This thread can only end in tears...
Gaming is getting more popular, it's definitely not getting better though.
Will it take until Splinter Cell 19 and Madden 2035, not to mention GTA:Ancient Egypt where u go and steal camels off people to steal from tombs before people start to get bored?
There's so much generic rubbish around at the moment.
How can people compare the Mario franchise, in which every game is different and is good because of the quality of the game, and not the Mario character- it could have anyone in it and still be good, to the endless sequels that the US / Europe publishers turn out, EA especially.
I think the market as a whole is pretty dire right now.
Gaming is getting more popular, it's definitely not getting better though.
Will it take until Splinter Cell 19 and Madden 2035, not to mention GTA:Ancient Egypt where u go and steal camels off people to steal from tombs before people start to get bored?
There's so much generic rubbish around at the moment.
How can people compare the Mario franchise, in which every game is different and is good because of the quality of the game, and not the Mario character- it could have anyone in it and still be good, to the endless sequels that the US / Europe publishers turn out, EA especially.
I think the market as a whole is pretty dire right now.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Boy, do I have mixed feeling about this topic.
On one hand, I have seen the rise in quality of the Western Game over the last ten years, starting primarily with the Playstation. And it was a good thing.
On the other hand, as smaller studios have been consolidated, the games have gotten largley more generic. I look at the shelves and see more crap than ever before, or worse, games which are little more than a new version of something alredy very popular. If there are nuances, I've lost track of them. I game far, far less than I used to. You can call me a casua gamer.
I've long thought that the Japanese game market was overrated for quality and originality, but oddly enough that's more true now than it used to be. I think more innovative gaming is coming from overseas now than used to.
And last-- yes, not all of the classic Japanese series get annual sequels, but Mario Party, enyone? Nintendo is a sequel whore as much as anybody, they just have more franchises to spread them around to. Back when they had fewer, the sequels came faster. There were three Mario platformers on the NES.
On one hand, I have seen the rise in quality of the Western Game over the last ten years, starting primarily with the Playstation. And it was a good thing.
On the other hand, as smaller studios have been consolidated, the games have gotten largley more generic. I look at the shelves and see more crap than ever before, or worse, games which are little more than a new version of something alredy very popular. If there are nuances, I've lost track of them. I game far, far less than I used to. You can call me a casua gamer.
I've long thought that the Japanese game market was overrated for quality and originality, but oddly enough that's more true now than it used to be. I think more innovative gaming is coming from overseas now than used to.
And last-- yes, not all of the classic Japanese series get annual sequels, but Mario Party, enyone? Nintendo is a sequel whore as much as anybody, they just have more franchises to spread them around to. Back when they had fewer, the sequels came faster. There were three Mario platformers on the NES.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
Broshnat said:
IAWTP.
That aside but the 2 main reasons why The Mario franchise is being attacked is:
a) Nintendo
b) Japanese.
western development is crap. every few years western developers will actually hit the nail on the head (THPS, Madden, GTA3, Sims, Halo, Mortal Kombat, etc) and will then regurgitate the shit over and over until sales stop turning profit. Not saying Japanese developers (or really anyone) doesn't do this, but it is DEFINITELY more pervasive in the West than the East. There are certainly some exceptions (old Rare, Blizzard, Bioware, Will Wright, Sid Meir, Id, Valve), but most are on the PC and the ones on the console are VERY few and far in between.
Though the doom and gloom article in and of itself is crap. Who do you think the primary supporters of the DS and PSP will be? Aside from EA, expect most of the first half year titles to come from Japanese publishers. Mark my words.
Though the doom and gloom article in and of itself is crap. Who do you think the primary supporters of the DS and PSP will be? Aside from EA, expect most of the first half year titles to come from Japanese publishers. Mark my words.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
borghe said:
true/false - i think its easy to take either camps - since you're not in Japan; you don't see the number of cookie cutter titles that make either - they do make highly polished titles; and stuff with artistic merit though.
I would say because of the fact that we are western gamers; our exposure to the WEST is greater and hence our critique of them are more immediate - however that; I do think that the Japanese titles that land outside Japan tend to be more innovate/fun/perculiar...etc
CONSOLE ONLY:_
dominant genres from Japan
Platforming
puzzle
driving
fighting
action
shooters
dominant genres from the West
FPS
driving
extreme sports
strategy
platforming
WESTERN GAMES ARE LESS POLISHED. WAYYYY LESS
Well, is Mario Party really that bad when put up against Koei's Musou games (which not only get annual releases but also annual updates on those releases) or Konami's Winning Eleven (annual series, in both J-League and World Soccer flavors, with International and/or Final Evolution updates annually as well)? There's most defnitely worse sequel abusers than Nintendo, even in Japan...Ignatz Mouse said:
That's a rather hollow argument considering Nintendo released three times as much content on NES conpared to GameCube. The frequency in Marios is actually proportional to their entire portfolio.Ignatz Mouse said:
TheGreenGiant
Banned
Nerevar said:
FPS = attack of the clone. :yawn:
define emergent gameplay because I really don't know what you mean.
and
shoddy platofrming and cute characters aren't the domain of Japanese games. Where do you think Crash, Spyro, Jak, R+C, Tak, rayman... the list goes on and on comes from.
wow, the rabid "OMG I LOVE THE WEST" people are out in droves.
except this really isn't about east west but about what gets out onto the market.
TheGreenGiant said:
Storybook RPGs = attack of the clones. :yawn:
A game that creates a simple set of rules and lets you interact with other characters to create varied gameplay experiences. This is the real reason I have always and will always like western developers more. Compare the best games of Japan (Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Ninja Gaiden, etc) and you follow a linear storyline to its conclusion. But western devs have created games like Morrowind, Fable, the Sims, Civilization, Black and White, etc - the comparison is easy to see. I, like many others, prefer this form of gameplay. you may not. Doesn't make you screaming "western devs suck!" at the top of your lungs any more accurate, because there are poeple who strongly disagree with you.