(Newsweek): Fall of the (Japanese) Video Kings
- Thread starter Rhindle
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And I'm aware enough to consider myself a gaming enthusiast. I'd hope anyone else posting on this board would be honset and self aware enough to do the same, rather than being afraid of looking cool.ZombieSupaStar said:Id rather be labeled a casual gamer then hardcore, Im not 12 anymore playing video games 22 hours a day doesnt make you cool, or anything productive.
Duckhuntdog
Member
I think, that if you post on any gaming related message boards, you probably aren't a casual gamers. Casual gamers don't go out of their way to get involved in gaming in such capacity.
They could careless about such issues as rehashes, Japanese development or other such things that usually are the topic of discussion on here.
They could careless about such issues as rehashes, Japanese development or other such things that usually are the topic of discussion on here.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
The only problem I have with Western developers gaining ground is that much too often really good western games don't see any good sales either, and instead some licensed crap makes for the bulk of sales of the western developer. That's not exactly the situation I can see as favorable.
Go Go Ackman!
Banned
First of all, fuck this thread. Second of all, fuck western developers.
That said, Halo 2, GTA and blizzard games are just about the only two shining beacons of quality software out there. Most western developers wouldn't know good presentation if it took a dump on their chests during a savage 4-way gangbang.
That said, Halo 2, GTA and blizzard games are just about the only two shining beacons of quality software out there. Most western developers wouldn't know good presentation if it took a dump on their chests during a savage 4-way gangbang.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
They're the same core game, play exactly the same... the only "difference" between the two "versions" is that there are pokemon exclusive to either version. To induce link trading/play.
A better comparison for Vice City/GTAIII is RuSa/FireRed LeafGreen
A better comparison for Vice City/GTAIII is RuSa/FireRed LeafGreen
Society said:
Are they sold seperatly? If so you shouldn't combine them.
I don't know the figures but lets say this (this is IF those pokemon games are sold seperatly, never got a straight answer yet):
7 million GTAs sold = 7 million players
10 million pokemon RuSA sold = 5 million players
If we are going by both sales and player base it would be more fair to split them up. But I guess people love to skew charts towards their argument huh?
Society said:Can your provide proof on that?
Just like you are assuming that everyone buys both versions of pokemon?
You yourself said they were sold to go together. So you mean to tell me 5 million bought Sapphire and then another 5 million bought Ruby? Come on man, make up your mind, which argument do you want to stick with?
Man, this topic is retarded. How can you even pick sides when both western and Japanese development has its gold (GTA in the west, Pokemon across the sea, for example) and its shit (stacks of B-grade FPSes trying to be Quake/Unreal/Halo killers, and "Hey, I play like Final Fantasy+Dragon Quest too!" dreck that clogs store shelves Japan respectively)
Society said:
You can't keep up obviously, I'm sure it's pretty close to a split but that doesnt even matter. I was questioning why Jarrod combined Pokemon RuSa sales to begin with. They need to be split up if they are sold seperatly.
You said that they are sold as a set which means that people will buy both, not just one or the other. That's pretty fucking close to a 50/50 split now isn't it douche.
Society said:
I was merely going by what you yourself said... "Released at the same time, as a set." Meaning that people will by BOTH. Therefore you could, in theory, by your OWN statement take the total number of Pokemon RuSa sold and divide it by two and you roughly have the # of people who bought it.
Ouch.
But this is getting away from my original point before the kid start up with his BS.
Anyone with sales data for:
Pokemon Ruby
Pokemon Sapphire
GTA:Vice
GTA3
?
Alcibiades
Member
Pokemon purchases can be pretty scattered for Nintendo fans.
I own Pokemon Yellow (from the Blue/Red/Yellow series), Pokemon Crystal (from the Silver/Gold series), Pokemon Saffire (from the Pokemon Saffire/Ruby series), and Pokemon FireRed & Pokemon LeafGreen (obviously from most recent series)...
I bought both of them recently from the Pokemon FiLe series cause they were $20 each for me (same was wireless adaptor, but I basically get an extra game). Buying one version of each and trading (w/ family and/or friends) really isn't unheard of and is actually one of the staples of the series...
I own Pokemon Yellow (from the Blue/Red/Yellow series), Pokemon Crystal (from the Silver/Gold series), Pokemon Saffire (from the Pokemon Saffire/Ruby series), and Pokemon FireRed & Pokemon LeafGreen (obviously from most recent series)...
I bought both of them recently from the Pokemon FiLe series cause they were $20 each for me (same was wireless adaptor, but I basically get an extra game). Buying one version of each and trading (w/ family and/or friends) really isn't unheard of and is actually one of the staples of the series...
Well, if your definition of "sold seperately" (ie: seperate SKUs) applies to Pokemon, it should also appy to GTA... meaning seperate sales data for...Razoric said:
-Pokemon Ruby Version (GBA)
-Pokemon Sapphire Version (GBA)
-Grand Theft Auto 3 (PS2)
-Grand Theft Auto 3 (PC)
-Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2)
-Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PC)
-Grand Theft Auto 3 (PS2 Greastest Hits)
-Grand Theft Auto: Double Pack (PS2)
-Grand Theft Auto: Double Pack (Xbox)
...I mean they're all sold seperately, with the potential for repeat purchase.
Duckhuntdog said:A truely non-linear game would just pop you into a world with no story and you create your own, and since you just would exist in this created world, there wouldn't be an end to the game. It would just go on and on and on forever.
The closest we have gotten to that are MMORPGs. You are pretty much free to do whatever you want in those games. ALMOST.
Hate to pop into this thread ... but ... uhmm, SimCity? No concrete goals (build a bigger, better city), no predefined ending. Hell, Civilization would fit this bill perfectly if it didn't have "victory conditions," and even with that you can continue playing your civilization well after the game stops keeping score. Will Wright and, to a lesser degree, Sid Meier and Peter Molyneux, have been pushing this for a very long time. Which is why they are some of the best game designers ever, IMO.
Razoric said:
Actually, I'm sure many people bought either GTA3 and/or GTA:Vice City, then purchased one of the doule packs.
Also this article talks about the fall of the Japanese kings, but fail to mention that two of the top 3 publishers in the US are Japanese (Nintendo and Sony).
So you're saying there's no chance of overlap bewteen those GTA releases? Hell, people on this board admitted to buying VC on PS2 immediately, then getting the PC release later or going for the DP on Xbox for visual improvements... you're going down a slippery slope here regarding assumptions on how people are these buying games. All I'm asking is applying even standards to both sides (either count seperate SKUs or count seperate games).Razoric said:
Razoric said:
I only bought Ruby (used). I'm not sure about most people around the world. I don't really get your point if 10 million people bought EmRuSa then that = 5 million "really." My sister bought Pokemon Blue back in the day, and I bought Pokemon Red. That's how they're meant to "go together." I don't think you can be the guy to decide how exactly the sales are split up among the fanbase.
And good god, calm down. :lol
Rough estimates for all Pokemon & GTA games this gen...
Pokemon Ruby~ 7 million
Pokemon Sapphire~ 7 million
Total~ 14 million (3 regions)
Pokemon Fire Red~ 1.5 million
Pokemon Leaf Green~ 1.5 million
Total~ 3 million (2 regions)
Pokemon Emerald~ 1 million (1 region)
Grand Theft Auto 3 (PS2)~ 8 million
Grand Theft Auto 3 (PC)~ 2 million?
Grand Theft Auto Double Pack (PS2)~ 1 million
Grand Theft Auto Double Pack (XB)~ 1.5 million
Total~ 12.5 million (3 regions)
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2)~ 9 million
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PC)~ 2 million?
Grand Theft Auto Double Pack (PS2)~ 1 million
Grand Theft Auto Double Pack (XB)~ 1.5 million
Total~ 13.5 million (3 regions)
Pokemon Ruby~ 7 million
Pokemon Sapphire~ 7 million
Total~ 14 million (3 regions)
Pokemon Fire Red~ 1.5 million
Pokemon Leaf Green~ 1.5 million
Total~ 3 million (2 regions)
Pokemon Emerald~ 1 million (1 region)
Grand Theft Auto 3 (PS2)~ 8 million
Grand Theft Auto 3 (PC)~ 2 million?
Grand Theft Auto Double Pack (PS2)~ 1 million
Grand Theft Auto Double Pack (XB)~ 1.5 million
Total~ 12.5 million (3 regions)
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2)~ 9 million
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PC)~ 2 million?
Grand Theft Auto Double Pack (PS2)~ 1 million
Grand Theft Auto Double Pack (XB)~ 1.5 million
Total~ 13.5 million (3 regions)
From 1998 to 2004 EA has gone from 900 million in net revenue to 3 billion. That, alone, is almost the 20% shift in the industry.Rhindle said:
1. Activision and Ubisoft are up since 1998, but there are also many other western publishers that have died and lost market share... Eidos, Midway, Lucasarts, Acclaim, 3DO, etc
2. What does MS have to do with eastern developers lossing marketshare in the US. As a software publisher MS is a light weight.
3. Take2/Rockstar is also a conglomeration of smaller studios that have seen moderate success in the past and are now a one-trick pony.
4.
5. THQ is well down from 6 years ago. Last generation THQ had multiple million sellers from wrestling and other licenses; now only 1 WWE title has past that mark. Furthermore, THQ has been licensing crap forever. The article sites "Finding Nemo" as an example of how western publishers are aligning themselves with licences, but that game has only sold 550,000 units on the PS2; in 1998 THQ published a Rugrats game that sold 1.45 million on the PS. THQ does not support the articles claims.
6. ??? They didn't exsist and weren't popular back then?
7. Again, licensed games have exsisted for 20 years. This isn't a new trend. What has happened is that more western companies have began to horn in on the giant video game market. Vivendi titles were oncemostly covered under Sony and Konami; Nintendo published Lucasarts 3 top selling games last gen, but now publish all their games themselves; Microsoft entered the market and snatched up a bunch of small houses including Rare from Nintendo. However, none of these examples have done better under a western publishers.
Still the single largest change in the market has been EA. The rest of the western publishers have just shifted power between themselves.
I believe that also combines the GTA bundle packs. Same game, different SKU.Razoric said:
Regardless of how they're sold though, it's the same game. It's not like people are throwing in Emerald or the Red/Green Remakes, and I doubt anyone considerers the PS2, PC & Xbox versions of GTA3 to be seperate games... you're making an arbitrary one sided judgement here to try and force your argument through... and it's not really working. :/Razoric said:
Razoric said:
All right. Just making sure that calling people douches was normal for you in everyday conversation.
It's been like that for a long time there, skipper. Red/Green and Blue/Red (in the states) were one game. Yellow was like Pokemon 1.5. Gold/Silver was Pokemon 2 with Crystal being 2.5. RuSa is Pokemon 3, Emerald being 3.5. FiLe is Pokemon Remake.
I guess we could all start separating the Mortal Kombat Deception and Madden sales by box covers now.
jarrod said:Actually, it varies depending on the polling source too... while some count RuSa seperately (NPD) some count them as one (denegeki). All polling sources count the various GTA ports and rereleases sepreately though.
Regardless, I didn't realize how high all those sales were. That's some crazy shit.
???AniHawk said:
-Madden NFL 2005 (PS2)
-Madden NFL 2005 Collector's Edition (PS2)
-Madden NFL 2005 (Xbox)
-Madden NFL 2005 (GC)
-Madden NFL 2005 (DS)
-Madden NFL 2005 (GBA)
-Madden NFL 2005 (NGE)
-Madden NFL 2005 (PS1)
-Madden NFL 2005 (PC)
...so EA releases 9 Madden games annually (it'll be 11 next year with Xenon & PSP added)?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Every time I look at the quote where the dude from the Xbox magazine says "culturally relevant" I can't help but translate it as "edgy post-ironic gangsta hiphop shootouts. We ain't no fags inna US o' A, muthafudda!"
to end the pokemon debate (or to fuel it), for all intents and purpose each Pokemon release is one game.
I know people who own both, I know people who own one. there are also people like my wife and myself who own one of each but we are still two separate gamers as far as those numbers are concerned even though as two separate gamers we only own one copy of say Pikmin 2.
But basically there are more people who will either only buy one game or who will buy multiple games that will still be played by different people. But at the end of the day, it is the same game AND only a relatively small number of people will actually buy two copies to be played by the same person.
I would also like to point out the the majority of western titles and developers that are being pointed out in this thread are PC developers or PC games. Hardly apples to apples when talking about Japanese console developers. We could Bioware/Blizzard/Black&White/Valve it all day long, but at the end of the day those developer's console output is slim to non-existant.
I also call into question Rare. Show me one great and original game or project either released or in development sinec their N64 days. It's ok, I have some time to wait.....
I know people who own both, I know people who own one. there are also people like my wife and myself who own one of each but we are still two separate gamers as far as those numbers are concerned even though as two separate gamers we only own one copy of say Pikmin 2.
But basically there are more people who will either only buy one game or who will buy multiple games that will still be played by different people. But at the end of the day, it is the same game AND only a relatively small number of people will actually buy two copies to be played by the same person.
I would also like to point out the the majority of western titles and developers that are being pointed out in this thread are PC developers or PC games. Hardly apples to apples when talking about Japanese console developers. We could Bioware/Blizzard/Black&White/Valve it all day long, but at the end of the day those developer's console output is slim to non-existant.
I also call into question Rare. Show me one great and original game or project either released or in development sinec their N64 days. It's ok, I have some time to wait.....
You can bet they're sold as two games for a reason--it drives up sales. If they have separate skus, they're separate games. PERIOD.borghe said:
The number one reason there are always two different flavors of Pokemon games for each release is NOT to encourage trading, as someone else suggested in this thread. It's to sell as many copies as possible.
Gotta catch'em all. Gotta buy both versions.
I agree it is to drive up sales, but a popular view in this thread seems to be that there are many people out there buying two copies of the game when in fact it is HOUSEHOLDS who buy multiple copies of the game but still individuals who play the games separately.
So while Madden may sell 2M copies and get sold to 2M household, Pokemon will sell 10M copies but only be in 6M households. But for the most part there are still 10M people playing the games.
Like I said though, I agree it was done to drive up sales, but it worked and legitimately it is only one game per release. and it's not like others haven't followed the sales model as well.
So while Madden may sell 2M copies and get sold to 2M household, Pokemon will sell 10M copies but only be in 6M households. But for the most part there are still 10M people playing the games.
Like I said though, I agree it was done to drive up sales, but it worked and legitimately it is only one game per release. and it's not like others haven't followed the sales model as well.
So on PS2, GTA3, Greatest Hits GTA3 and GTA Double Pack are all seperate games? PERIOD?Teddman said:
When Game Freak designed Pokemon originally, you're saying differening versions wasn't a tool to encourage trading and push the social component the game was designed around, but rather it was a marketing tactic? For a new series that had yet to prove itself in the almost dead GB market of 1995? You don't find that... risky?
Is there any content difference between GTA3, GTA3 GH, GTA3 in the double pack? Were they intially released in two versions where say, certain cars can only be used in certain versions or traded via link-up between versions? No.
Is Jarrod's GTA analogy flawed and totally irrelevent to Pokemon? Why yes.
Trading between versions is BOTH a marketing tactic and a gameplay encourages social interaction around the game. I said sales was the foremost reason, not the only one.
Is Jarrod's GTA analogy flawed and totally irrelevent to Pokemon? Why yes.
Trading between versions is BOTH a marketing tactic and a gameplay encourages social interaction around the game. I said sales was the foremost reason, not the only one.
But they have seperate SKUs... which was your definer for "seperate games". PERIOD.Teddman said:
I don't see why... these are all the same games. Pokemon RuSa is one game. GTA3 is one game. Vice City is one game. Despite differeing versions, rereleases and ports.Teddman said:
Just seems a bold move for a new IP in an almost dead market from a tiny development house. Game Freak Entertainment must have one hell of a marketing department.Teddman said:
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