SonGoku
Member
They are using 18Gbps chips?
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DemonCleaner
Member
Yeah,DemonCleaner , you should really stick with the standard font color for those of us on the DarkGAF. You make good posts, but it's difficult to read.
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A lot of tech sites picked up the story about the Sapphire rep. I'm really curious about CU count and power consumption. I wonder if it will be like 390/390X or X1X where it's 40CU/44CU. It's gonna be fun to see how AdoredTV's charts pan out in comparison what the rep was saying.
duders chillex! im not doing this on purpose. i have to use IE at work [for reasons]. it seems to do that as soon as you copy paste stuff around. go complain at the admins...
DemonCleaner
Member
if the 8SE rumour is true it's pretty likely they would go with 56 CU (64 minus 1 dissabled per SE) for yields
SonGoku
Member
Yeah it could go either way 60 or 56 depending on yields by the time PS5 enters manufacturing.
if the 8SE rumour is true it's pretty likely they would go with 56 CU (64 minus 1 dissabled per SE) for yields
Pro tip: When you copy something use the remove formatting button.
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CyberPanda
Banned
ewwww IE.
DemonCleaner
Member
i don't think you can have SEs with different amount of CUs. so if it indeed will be 8 Shader Engines, they must dissable 8CUs at a time.
cheers!
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SonGoku
Member
What are you talking about? This already happens with 56CU and 60CU cut down Vega designs with 8CU and 12CU respectively
Or am i missing something?
DemonCleaner
Member
you re missing the rumour that navi now has 8 instead of 4 shader engines … from like yesterday ...you still remember?
if you want to dissable CUs i think you have to disable at least one per SE. 4SE => 4 CUs disabeled 8SEs => 8CUs disabled
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SonGoku
Member
But even doing that you are left with uneven CU per SE counts on Vega
60CUs-> 1SE with 12CUs and 3SE's with 16CUs each
56CUs-> 1SE with 8CUs and 3SE's with 16CUs each
Are you sure you have to disable CUs in multiples of the SE count? got a link or something i can read to understand this limitation?
DemonCleaner
Member
im not sure on that, that's why i wrote "i think".
radeon VII: 60CUs -> 15CUs per SE
Vega56: 56CUs -> 14CUs per SE
?
i think i have to check some block diagramms later :-X
radeon VII: 60CUs -> 15CUs per SE
Vega56: 56CUs -> 14CUs per SE
?
i think i have to check some block diagramms later :-X
SonGoku
Member
Vega56 is just a vega64 with 8CUs disabled so the config should be 3*(16CUs per SE) and 1*(8CUs per SE)
Please do and let me know, im curious too, i remember something about having CUs in multiples of 4, so you might be right. Im just curious how it works
ethomaz
care to chime in?
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Welcome to the next-gen analysis/speculation and rumors thread. Next-generation chatter is exciting but can also be very confusing. I've decided to put all the gossip, and info regarding next-gen consoles into this one thread. That way we can thoroughly discuss and analyze every sort of information that is being fed to us, and continue to talk about these exciting times in a orderly manner. Thanks!
Previous threads:
PS5
[WIRED] Exclusive with Mark Cerny, PS5 specs detailed
Rumor: PS5 devkits ~ 13 TFLOPS
Sony: “Ultra-High-Speed” SSD Will Make Loading Screens “A Thing of the Past”
Rumor: PS5 To Introduce Playstation Plus Premium In 2020, Exclusive Betas And Private Servers.
RuthenicCookie who broke news of Sony not going to E3 says PS5 is a Monster (Details inside)
Supposed PS5 specs from random Beyond3D member (Silly but this is also how the 1st Wii U specs was leaked)
Next Box
Pricing the Xbox Anaconda and Lockhart
Inside Microsoft’s Plans For The Next Xbox
Next Xbox is ‘More Advanced’ Than the PS5 according to Insiders.
Rumor: Next-Gen Xbox console may feature an internal physics engine
AMD
AMD Boss Teases chip to power PS5's "Secret Special Sauce"?
AMD CEO Lisa Su describes key gaming partnerships with Sony, Microsoft: We're helping them with their 'secret sauce'.
About the Arcturus meme...
AMD board leak hints at next-gen 'Navi' graphics tech
Latest Speculation from "known sources" points to Navi(GPU in next-gen consoles) having issues.
AMD's next-gen PlayStation/Xbox chip moves closer to final version
AMD's Lisa Su confirms next-gen PlayStation to have Zen 2 and Navi
Devs/3rd Party
EA prepares technology for next-gen consoles.
Interpoint Dev On Next-Gen Specs: Number of TFLOPS Not Worth Pursuing.
Next-gen could make it easier for AI programmers to create more complex games.
Scarlet/Anaconda (Snek), Arcturus rumor
PS5 pastebin rumorCPU: 8 Core Ryzen at 3.3 GHz with 1GB of L4 cache (probably from main memory)
GPU: 11.468 TF (64CUs at 1400 MHz)
Ram: 22GB (probably GDDR6) on a 352 bit bus
PS5 official info:CPU 7nm Ryzen 8 core 16 threads
GPU 7nm Navi ~14TF, powerful and power efficient, much better bandwidth overall.
24GB GDDR6 + 4GB DDR4 for OS (32GB dev kits)
2TB HDD some sort of nand flash
DualShock 5: some sort of camera inside for VR, more analog precision for fps games,something similar to steam analog trackpad
499$ (100$ loss per console at a beginning)
AdoredTV Updated Navi Cards chart
Teraflops Peak Performance Lookup Table (Note: GCN limit is 64 CUs)
GDDR6 Bandwidth and size combinations
8th generation consoles silicon size
About software based RTCode:Die Size Process Transistors Release Date Wii U 146 40 0.8 Billion 2012 PlayStation 4 F 348 28 4~5 Billion 2013 PlayStation 4 S 208 16 4~5 Billion 2016 PlayStation 4 P 232 16 5.7 Billion 2016 Xbox One F 363 28 5.0 Billion 2013 Xbox One S 240 16 5.0 Billion 2016 Xbox One X 359 16 7.0 Billion 2017
Things to look out for when searching for PS5 leaks
can you please add dates for when each article were posted otherwise this thread is pretty useless
SonGoku
Member
You mean the previous threads on the OP?
I was planning to order them chronologically, if you are willing to do it I'd apreciate it if you PMd so i can update the OP, otherwise I'll get to it on the weekend.
KlickKlack
Banned
So much conjecture makes me sad
I just wanna know the truth.
... then follow Trump on Twitter.
Ellery
Member
New day new rumors. I love it.
I am still somewhat SHOCKED that the absolute madmen at AMD want to name the next card RX 3080 instead of RX 680 just to annoy Nvidia.
But then again it would be a bit disappointing to see the RX 3080 being slower than the RTX 2080
And even funnier would be if Nvidia and AMD fight over the 3080 number
HOWEVER. I would not be really happy if the rumored RX3080 performance, VRAM and price are true, because that would be a bit lackluster imho. (though faster than RTX 2070 could mean anything ranging from 2% faster to close to RTX 2080)
I am still somewhat SHOCKED that the absolute madmen at AMD want to name the next card RX 3080 instead of RX 680 just to annoy Nvidia.
But then again it would be a bit disappointing to see the RX 3080 being slower than the RTX 2080
And even funnier would be if Nvidia and AMD fight over the 3080 number
HOWEVER. I would not be really happy if the rumored RX3080 performance, VRAM and price are true, because that would be a bit lackluster imho. (though faster than RTX 2070 could mean anything ranging from 2% faster to close to RTX 2080)
ethomaz
Banned
Not sure but I believe it is like he said.
Vega 64 is 4x15
Vega 56 is 4x14
I don't remember any chip with SEs with different number of CUs... I think it is for balance purposes.
Even PS4 was a 2SEs with 9CUs each.
Edit - Just to add more evidence PS4 (2x9) and Xbox One (2x6) diagram:
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SonGoku
Member
I see so there's some kind of virtual organization where the numbers of CUs per SE must be even
I was confused because in reality there will be one physical SE with less CUs than the rest (DISABLED)
Say a Vega56 in reality one of its SEs will only have 8CUs. Assuming all disabled CUs are from one SE.
or are CUs in Vega56 case disabled on a 2 per SE basis?
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ethomaz
Banned
2 per SE in Vega 56.
SonGoku
Member
I see, i wrongly assumed all disabled CUs where from on SE
Thanks for the heads up
DemonCleaner
Assuming the 8 SE rumor is true, we'll see 56CUs max on PS5.
ethomaz
Banned
BTW that is directly related to the number of CUs disabled in consoles...I see, i wrongly assumed all disabled CUs where from on SE
Thanks for the heads up
Assuming the 8 SE rumor is true, we'll see 56CUs max on PS5.
XB1 - 2SEs, 14CUs, 2CUs disabled
PS4 - 2SEs, 20CUs, 2CUs disabled
Pro - 4SEs, 40CUs, 4CUs disabled
X - 4SEs, 44CUs, 4CUs disabled
You disable one CU in each SE.
SonGoku
Member
But isn't that coming this year?
ethomaz
Banned
Sony event is this year and before new CoD launch in October/November lol
From what I got from the leaks...
- New CoD trailer near E3
- Activision won't have a booth or presentation at E3
- New CoD playable at Sony Event
Sony exclusive event will be like a E3 shows with PS5 reveal, PS4 last games, 3rd-party games deals.
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SonGoku
Member
Holly shit megaton if real, I wasn't expecting Sony to announce PS5 this year
Only PS4 gameplay most likely right?
ethomaz
Banned
Yeap... only PS4 gameplay I guess... maybe a demonstration for PS5?
But the rumors/leaks always put PS5 reveal at Sony event schedule to this year (early June).
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xool
Member
Any history of the tweeter - background checks, previous etc .. !
So Sony isn't at E3, but they sort of are .. just happen to be having a press conference in the same city at the same time of year ?
demigod
Member
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ethomaz
Banned
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Ellery
Member
Excuse me I don't see how these tweets points at Sony having an Event around E3 (I am not saying that it isn't the case!) I just don't see how the tweets would imply that.
Or I am missing something or previous tweets I didn't see
ethomaz
Banned
There is no way to know... if the change from 4xSIMD-16 to 2xSIMD-32 is true the CUs are smaller than what we find in Vega 7nm.
ethomaz
Banned
Common sense?
New CoD launches in October...
Leaks said early June for Sony E3 (not only one... most of them)...
There is no way it is not around E3 the event... at least it is this quarter... Activision won't show gameplay/demo near the launch of the game.
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Ellery
Member
I see. I am just wondering how far in advance you would need to announce such an event to make sure people can register and come there and prepare for it.
The tweet says "playable at Sonys individual event" so I guess that means normal consumers can play it there, right?
But those consumers need to know when that event takes place and E3 is in like 2-3 weeks?
Somehow I expected a PS5 reveal event much later this year or even next year. The PS4 was first shown in 2013 the same year the console launched and fully revealed at E3 5 months before release wasn't it?
Would be surprising if Sony showed much of the PS5 (Or Microsoft for that matter) like 1 1/2 years away from official release.
About the games I can agree that they need some sort of platform for release date reveals. Though I thought they maybe do it with that State of Play thing now
But overall this is good news. Hoping to get release dates for TLOU2 and maybe Death Stranding
ResilientBanana
Member
Wouldn't they want to advertise that by now or maybe send invites? They would want people to watch their streams wouldn't they? The more lead time you have, the more viewers you would get to watch.
ethomaz
Banned
Sony events are for Journalists, no?
I don't remember any Sony event for consumers.
Of course it will be streamed live to everybody.
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Ellery
Member
Sorry no idea I never looked that closely into it being half a world away.
It would make more sense if it is for journalists only and them being under NDA for an upcoming event that we normal consumers know nothing about (yet).
ResilientBanana
Member
Again, EVERYBODY would have to know about it pretty far in advance. I wouldn't expect anything until December.
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xool
Member
- I think TSMC 7nm should be 2.4x density over GloFo 14/16nm
- Estimated Zen (not Zen2) size of a 4 core CCX unit is 44mm2 so should be down to 18.3mm2, so 8 cores =36.6 (call it 37mm2) [original estimate too generous] (note that doesn't include memory IO, PCI, USB etc )
- Ignore Vega64 and VegaVII because they include extra fp64 stuff and are oversize for that reason.
- At 14nm we get 32/36 compute units in 232mm2 (RX570/580), 16 CUs at 123mm2 (RX560), and 10CUs at 101mm2 - that puts CU size somewhere between 3.7 and 5.45 (very rough estimates) - this makes the extra stuff in a AMD GPU at around 36 mm2 (ie the IO stuff)
- Alternatively subtract the 8 core size (88mm2) from Zen size (~200mm2) to get size of all the Zen IO stuff - that's a bigger number at 112mm2
- So we've got at 14nm :
- 88mm2 8 cores
- 112mm2 IO
- total 200mm2
- scale to 7nm = 83 mm2
- So the remainder for GPU is 314-88 = 226mm2
- amortised (includes other stuff) per CU size estimate was 5.45mm2 at 14nm
- so 2.3mm2 at 7nm
- 226/2.3 = room for 98 CUs
- Alternatively just take the size of RX 570 (232mm2) as being the minimum for 32 CU .. now a CU is 7.25mm2 at 14 nm, so 3mm2 at 7nm
- 226mm2/3mm2 [size left for GPU / estimated size per CU] = 75 CU
The Compute unit size estimates are junk (I did them) .. and the scaling of 2.4 will probably turn out to be optimistic - but those are the figures we've got .. either way .. there's room for 64 CUs.
[edit - the other super rough way is to add the size of an 8 core zen and two 32CU RX570s both at 14nm - this is 200+232+232 = 664mm2 to get that down to 314mm2 need 664/314 = 2.1x shrinkage from 14nm to 7nm or better .. afaik we've got that]
So for TF - there should be the full 64 compute units - at around 1.25GHz this is ~10TF .. scale this to 1.6GHz and you get the magic 12.8TF figure (clock scaling from 14 to 7nm at under 1.3x seems reasonable)
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ethomaz
Banned
The CUs become smaller with the change from 4xSIMD-16 to 2xSIMD-32 if true.
Frank Spencer
Banned
I just hope both consoles have some sort of blue light filter option like flux.
Humdinger
Member
I agree, that would be really nice.
nowhat
Member
That's.... actually an interesting suggestion (although I hope you don't manage to summon "that one guy" to the thread), but I'm not entirely certain it'd be that useful. As far as I understand it, the melatonin-production-inhibiting effects are more pronounced at a closer range (say, monitor or cell phone screen), unless you are pretty much glued to to your TV I'm not sure if it'd make that much of a difference.
Do modern TVs have this functionality built-in? I know mine doesn't, but it's a couple of years old already.
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Frank Spencer
Banned
Most modern monitors now do and some TV's I believe. But as I have a small monitor less than 20" as far as I know I can't buy a monitor that has a blue light filter option.
LordOfChaos
Member
We're now up to 5GB/s on PCI-E 4 SSDs already on Ryzen 2 boards. The interface should allow just under 7 with overhead with the same number of lanes as current ~3.5GB/s drives. I hope we're able to get some testing of this PS5 Broadband SSD.
hothardware.com
Gigabyte's PCIe 4.0 SSD Touts Monstrous 5GB/s Speeds For Ryzen 3000 Zen 2 Motherboards
Gigabyte is planning to introduce a new M.2 solid state drive that offers up to 5,000MB/s of read and write speeds, provided it's plugged into a motherboard that supports PCIe 4.0.
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