Nowcry
Member
That does not rule out that it is not later through a patch. Like everyone so far.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Then I don't understand it when they say the GDK is causing some developers issues. Also why I don't understand why XSX footage didn't come sooner. DirectX was available for years surely most developers know it by now.
MS should put someone with tech knowledge in charge of marketing. Most of their issues this year have been self-inflicted, a case of building huge hype with buzz words and then under-delivering.
No one would be upset if they hadn’t gone on and on about raytracing and most powerful.
Let the games do the talking.
No one would be upset if they hadn’t gone on and on about raytracing and most powerful.
Let the games do the talking.
saintjules
Gold Member
MasterCornholio
Member
Just looking at the image the 4K Ultra HD part isn't accurate with the Xbox Series S. I can see how a casual might think that it does.
There's also this line further down the page.
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GreyHand23
Member
I think people really just have fun flinging shit back and forth. I hope its all in good natured fun. Unfortunately we know some take it much more seriously. We should all be happy in a month's time and just let the developers work in peace.
Nowcry
Member
I don't understand it either ...... unless the problem is hardware. And I don't mean that it doesn't work, just that it's not easy to take advantage of and they don't want to show bad graphics.
However, time is running out to try to improve the optimization software. Possibly because they are too busy putting RT, improving the optimization of the 16 CUs on a single branch, and also trying to get XVA to work.
I think they are really covering so much that they will not have time. Those who are going to present games in 2 years will be perfect but the 3rd will have a really bad time. And with BC I don't think you can sell a console even though GamePass is cheap at least not for XSX, XSS could be a good deal for a lot of people although XBoneX could be too.
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Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Sure, anything is possible. I'm just pointing out that it has been announced as such.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
As someone that started out with a PC before a console (decades ago) I would normally go along with this, but between the UE5 Demo and the two sony videos thatBo_Hazem linked in his art of pixel counting thread - the 1st about sony atomview tech and the second about how atomview is so beyond polygons that it can be used on crystal led screens as dynamic set backdrops and can be record in the scene dynamically as though it is real - if the PC hasn't matched the UE5 demo yet with a RTX 3090 then I think the ship has sailed for it beating PS5 in ray-tracing visuals, when you also factor in software production level on playstation.
Atomview rendering isn't as variable for performance as path tracing, and if the technique is already making more polygons obsolete, and the pre-release RTX IO solution is miles behind the IO complex in latency - going by the public info - so it can't do atomview/UE5 nanite on par with PS5, I think unprecedented changes in the PC gaming hardware are going to need for your statement to be true in the long run.
That's indeed. Wonderful, insightful input as usual. And for someone interested in Sony Atom View video that Sony have put them more into their Sony Pictures division, here it which lots of simplified details:
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MasterCornholio
Member
Maybe the extra CUs is making it a little more difficult for them to feed? Not to mention there's a rumor that the XSX has less cache per CU than the PS5 has.
That's the only thing that I can think of when it comes to the hardware. Maybe the weird ram configuration as well but I doubt it.
Wraith Phantom
Member
So what we saying, series x having issues and series s isn't?
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Is it coming in a patch...
(Im sorry madhlad ,You getting this work for editing your original post)
MOD OF WAR
Console warring is ....oofff hold on...
And there's Playstation with the knock out blow. With a Magnifcent clip of Mile Morales. No games xbox down.
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PaintTinJr
Member
It probably won't tell us the resolution, but it looks like the HUD icons for the controllers on each picture are positioned in the screen differently. On the PS5 pic the icons are far left, and on the XsX pic they are (IMO) 25% in from the left side.Could be just YouTube's compression at work.
Here's a screen from the PS5 trailer I posted
Here's a screen from todays XSX footage
These HUDs are usually overlays, which mean they aren't renderer in 3D, they are typically full framebuffer resolution masks over the viewport, and aren't stretched as doing so will damage the clarity of the pixel sharp info they hold. They also effectively stencil mask the the rendering, so that they give an effective reduction in framebuffer resolution by blocking all 3D pipeline work (depth, fragmentation, shading) that takes place under those masked pxiels.
J_Gamer.exe
Member
All this searching for raytracing begs the question, is it that good, if we sometimes can't tell unless stopping to analyse.
Much more impressed with proper global illumination.
schaft0620
Member
YIKES WOOF WOW HOLY SHIT, damn I thought that guy kept it real.No . But seeing someone who was screaming wrong bullshit to be wrong is enjoyable. Oh and thats not all .soon more shocking info will be unveiled about the performances which all be nice to see.
that 40 50 fps advantage for " gpu math alone " lol, will soon be unveiled(to be pure bs)
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J_Gamer.exe
Member
Was that ever resolved? About what happens if a game needs more than 10gb, or if it wants to access both fast and slow ram at once?
I and read ybaout the effective bandwidth possibly lowering, true or not?
Loxus
Member
Yes, cause no Ray Tracing on Dirt 5 or Yakuza.
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Dolomite
Member
Well that's that
sircaw
Banned
They probably don't realize who he is in their defense. They just see someone praising their game and feel happy about showing it. I can't blame them for that.
Loxus
Member
He still needs Naughty Dog's development tools though.
A man is only as good as his tools.
Dolomite
Member
? The tools are only as good as the mechanic using them
Nowcry
Member
Totally agree.
Everything is linked obviously, but I think that SX has many announced features that have actually been based on software like XVA, the RT or the 16 CU per branch.
That it has simply become a huge problem that is very difficult to handle. I don't understand what prompted them not to put 3 Shaders Engines. They could have put 9CU x 6 branches. And it would be perfect. Maybe CEO decisions???
There is no point in not getting serious about your hardware and then spending 7500 million on bethesda.
I guess it was a bigger and more expensive die, but it was the point of XSS $ 300 or XSX $ 549. They would have only the problem of XVA that could have some kind of solution with lossy compression and super optimized DirectStorage.
All of this is very Strange. But it is not good for anyone.
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Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Poached
HawarMiran
Banned
Sony Headquarters right now
MasterCornholio
Member
There's usually more than one.
Loxus
Member
I work using CAD programs and Archicad is better than AutoCAD when it comes to drawing a house.
So your only as good as your tools.
Nowcry
Member
Dolomite
Member
I mean, You're right. I won't deny it, they've poached the industry clean for the Initiative. But aggressive recruitment benefits the Devs as much as MS. Who's to say Devs at naughty dog aren't unhappy, or the rumors of ND crunch are real. Hell it could be as simple as MS offering %50 more for the same position with better benefits and unlimited resources at a new studio
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martino
Member
the next gen render pipeline scale with number of cu because mesh shader scale with and rely a lot on cu (SM for nvidia)
extract of nvidia presentation to support that :
- Higher scalability through shader units by reducing fixed-function impact in primitive processing. The generic purpose use of modern GPUs helps a greater variety of applications to add more cores and improve shader’s generic memory and arithmetic performance. (geometry engine is SOOOOOOO crucial)
- Flexibility in defining the mesh topology and creating graphics work. The previous tessellation shaders were limited to fixed tessellation patterns while geometry shaders suffered from an inefficient threading, unfriendly programming model which created triangle strips per-thread.
- Vertices are processed in parallel across the workgroup’s threads, just like the original vertex shaders.
- Vertex shaders can be made mostly compatible with mesh shaders with a few preprocessor insertions.
- Less data needs to be fetched due to greater vertex re-use (classic vertex shaders operate with a limit of max_vertices = 32 and max_primitives = 32). Average triangle mesh valences suggest that using twice the amount of triangles as vertices is beneficial.
- All data loads are handled via shader instructions instead of the classic fixed function primitive fetch and therefore scales better with more Streaming Multiprocessors. It also allows easier use of custom vertex encodings to further reduce bandwidth.
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Mahavastu
Member
Have you accidently gifted him gold?Mate, why are you orange instead of red? Did you get promoted or demoted?
Dolomite
Member
So by this logic, the dozen Dev team leaders and Directors that left Santa Monica, Insomia and ND are talentless without the Decima engine?
The shader leads, animation directors and lead level designers are talentless without Sony?
MasterCornholio
Member
Are you suggesting that those studios will fail without the ones they went to the initiative?
Seems like developers tend to move around alot in the industry.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Now that's creative!
Mixing red with yellow, huh? More like he pissed on his nickname
No gold for the brute!
Mod of War: Remastered
Sinthor
Gold Member
Well...while we're looking at goofy tunes....anyone remember that old Geico caveman commercial?
HAL-01
Member
the thing is the particular shots in that gameplay snip dont require RT reflections to look good. everything that is reflected is on screen. It'll be more striking once you see your character and the world behind you reflected on a window, or the whole environment reflected on a distorted surface.
With that said, RT reflections will be used sparingly and we'll see RT being used to greatly improve lighting and soft shadows later in the gen
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
These still have pretty shitty AF : (Could be just YouTube's compression at work.
Here's a screen from the PS5 trailer I posted
Here's a screen from todays XSX footage
MasterCornholio
Member
Now that's creative!
Mixing red with yellow, huh? More like he pissed on his nickname
Aww I thought you two were starting to get along.
Dolomite
Member
? Quite literally diametrically opposite of anything I had to say. Weak straw man
The user I responded to implied that any Dev MS recruits is useless without thier tool(engine, former colleagues or work environment)*
That's fanboyism and insults the same Devs we've praised for delivering TLOU1/2 Uncharted and GOW. Suggesting that the dozens of ex Sony devs are now talentless has-beens because they've moved on to a new studio whilst in thier prime is something no one should entertain. No different than for folks shitting on Bungie devs that didn't stay behind when they split from leaving MS
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MasterCornholio
Member
I agree that the Décima Engine is pretty impressive but those developers can do fine without it.
Honestly I just thought you were saying they would be worse off with them. My mistake.
People need to stop thinking that the Initiative will produce games like Naughty Dog or Sony Santa Monica among others. The Initiative will produce games made by the people that they hire. Plus with the correct management they can truly produce something special or they can end up being another 343. We have to wait and see what happens because having a studio filled with talent also requires good management to be successful.
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Loxus
Member
I'm not saying that they are talentless.
But thinking The Initiative can produce a TLOU 2 tear game just because a Naughty Dog Dev joining them is insane.
I'm talking about the guy that twitted btw, not you.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Nobody said that though, not in the tweet either lol
Bo_Hazem
Banned
very superior I don’t know how MS kept this secret put oh well
Class-action lawsuit against Microsoft for alleged Xbox One controller "stick drift" now includes the Elite Series 2
An ongoing class-action lawsuit against Microsoft for "stick drift" has been amended to include specific reference to t…www.google.com
And costs 33% more than XSS and 80% of XSX. Fucking $400!
Wraith Phantom
Member
Let them work. If they make poor mans version of Uncharted or Naughty dogs game/mechanics it will show. Tomb Raider tried to rip uncharted & that IP is on life support. Wait & see ,we can critique their project one day its out.
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Now that's creative!
Mixing red with yellow, huh? More like he pissed on his nickname
It was Aphrodite.
Loxus
Member
Then why he only mention the Naughty Dog Dev and not the other 30 Devs that join?
I used to watch RDX back in the day and they say, Xbox will finally get God tier game now a God of War Dev join.
I know what the guy is aiming at.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
While, I chuckled with this.. it will look the same on PS5 unfortunately
Yup, PS5 will be anchored by that Xbox deal. They don't wanna embarrass them.
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