XcloudTimdog
Banned
Who listens to you, a angry jaded fanboy with delusions of power. Im the one who clued in this forum 3 days before the 12 tflop news broke. Gonna be a hard go of it for some of these Sony no nothing fanboys
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Zato
Banned
Richard is hard to call, I respect his work and that of DF in general but again they went hard on for Xbox One and as someone else said they bigged up the esram as being something special ..... they were very wrong.
Fake
Gold Member
I remember Rich saying about directx 12 game changer too.
CyberPanda
Banned
Here come the conspiracies that DF is run by the CEO of MS. Cute.
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Zato
Banned
I have no delusions of power, I have none.
But I didn't talk about secret GPU in power bricks either lol.
Aceofspades
Banned
I have the post explaining and evidencing those claims ready and I have posted it before in this thread. But I feel explaining myself to you is just a waste of my time .
I wont be having a back and fourth with a know fanboy its just useless and also degrading.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
The ESRam thing is a bit silly, because its actually a really poor solution on the whole. But it is a solution. Sadly for xbox, Sony made the better call, but lets not think for a second here that if Sony didn't do what they did this conversation wouldn't be VERY different.
As for DX12, it is a game changer. The trouble is, its not implemented correctly by developers most of the time. Yeah, its had some teething issues, but doesn't everything? You're essentially talking about something that only recently started to be more mainstream in support on cards, and even now, most cards out there don't run DX12. So while its actually good, its also not as widely used, and so attention isn't given to it.
As for DX12, it is a game changer. The trouble is, its not implemented correctly by developers most of the time. Yeah, its had some teething issues, but doesn't everything? You're essentially talking about something that only recently started to be more mainstream in support on cards, and even now, most cards out there don't run DX12. So while its actually good, its also not as widely used, and so attention isn't given to it.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
Richard likes tech. It gets him going. That's a totally normal thing for a person with his likes to enjoy. I also enjoy tech, and love reading about everything both sides are doing. Just because I get a e-boner over one thing, it doesn't make me a fanboy however. I think sometimes, some people, not naming..... any...……. names.... they need to step back a little bit and see that as long as we are advancing, its all good. There WILL be a winner in terms of performance this gen. Whether that's by a huge margin, a decent margin, or a totally pointless margin, that remains to be seen.
Fake
Gold Member
Directx 12, like the Windows 10, already have a long time in the market so I don't fall into that 'need more time' bs.
I mean, how many years until Directx 12 be a game changer?
Time is passing, but still nothing. Locked to one OS and no huge dev implementation.
If is a comproved 'game changer' API proved, is the Vulkan implementation on Doom 2016 vs AMD graphic cards.
I mean, how many years until Directx 12 be a game changer?
Time is passing, but still nothing. Locked to one OS and no huge dev implementation.
If is a comproved 'game changer' API proved, is the Vulkan implementation on Doom 2016 vs AMD graphic cards.
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TLZ
Banned
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
You're not understanding.
DX12 has been out a few years, yes. But that doesn't mean its been adopted enough to warrant every developer to put all their time into it. Its supported, but not anywhere near enough.
This is the exact same situation as, lets say, xbox one and PS4. They have both been out years, but developers put more time into the PS4 product over the xbox product because its got a MUCH higher install base. When you have a limited budget and limited time, its just a totally common sense thing to do.
ZywyPL
Banned
DF Youtube videos are actually rendered in-engine on the new XBX. They're not real persons.
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megreotsugua
Banned
Why are you guys so hard on Timdog. It's not his fault MS didn't put a GPU in the power supply. A little bit of empathy please.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
I heard the Switch Pro has a CPU in the left thumb stick, so, you know, go easy on him.
megreotsugua
Banned
Did he say XSX is more powerful than PS5? I still haven't watched the video.
I want to see them please. That's new to me actually.
Fake
Gold Member
Few years? Since Windows 10 release. Unlike OpenGL org, they had time and money to do it so.
Microsoft already cut Windows 7 support and every announcement they feel proud about the Windows 10 install base, with is very huge.
They need to be a more realistic. If they want to use W10 install base as a PR bullshit they first need to be clear about that.
Fake
Gold Member
At least. Enough that 'bruh, 9TF~10F'.So it looks like even Digital Foundry has finally joined double digit team. Great to hear that... 12FT... or even better 14TF for the win
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
See, it’s posts like this that show me for some of you, nothing MS could ever do would be good enough. They will never win somebody like you around.
It’s essentially like a Uk football fan. You love man United and heaven forbid somebody even suggest anything West Ham do well, because they must be a complete and total tit.
It’s essentially like a Uk football fan. You love man United and heaven forbid somebody even suggest anything West Ham do well, because they must be a complete and total tit.
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Pretty he is a technology fan boy like most of at the of the day. He loves new toys. I think the article is about what most of us said reveal night. That form factor was made to cool first and foremost. I think he is correct both Sony and MS will be approaching 300 watts to start the generation. It be interesting to see how Sony will tackle it. If they go traditional form factor it could either get loud or expensive to cool.
TBiddy
Member
It's funny how.. lets' call them fans of Sony seem to forget this. Sony lucked out with their gamble on GDDR5 and if they hadn't, history would've looked very different indeed.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
DDR4 is pretty good for the CPU, and having it on its own lane ensures that the CPU doesn't clog the GPU's memory bandwidth when they both need to access the their memory pool at the same time.
Also, given a certain amount of memory (let's say 24GB) buying 16GB of expansive GDDR6 or HBM memory + 8GB of cheap DDR4 will make the system less expensive and give you a bigger total memory pool to work with... that will outweigh an possible problem slower - but fast enough for a CPU - RAM may bring to the table.
The only problem with the dual memory pools approach is that if you don't have enough RAM for the CPU or memory for the GPU it's harder (or impossible) to re-assign it to the other... This memory access contention problem could be a real issue given how Zen2 CPUs are very RAM bandwidth hungry for reasons I don't know, but it has been measured that they will take advantage of the fastest RAM modules available right now, so sharing the memory pool may be the best solution right now.
All in all I think it's better that way.
Fake
Gold Member
If you blindly forget the engineers behind PS4 hardware, so yes Sony get lucked lol.
Kdad
Member
Go on......
Lol.
So... External or internal PSU...people are giving thier opinion on the box and this fairly relevant design issue hasn't been clarified afaik?
Aceofspades
Banned
There you have it:
Quoting myself from earlier in this thread. You can see how Richard is actually a massive MS shill, and that was even before MS money.
Fucking clown Lol.
ANIMAL1975
Member
This thread is going downhills, we need Tommys vetting confirmation, or that guy from the future naked pics dropped on Twitter,... something asap to get us back on track.
TBiddy
Member
What? Sony lucked out with their gamble on GDDR5. Had they only been able to fit 4 GB (or if pricing was different), history would be very different. That has nothing to do with engineers.
Can we cool it with the accusations of shilling and namecalling?
Insane Metal
Member
Mod of War
how is Tommy's verification going? Did you see my post a few pages ago with basically the same info he dropped? The leak?
Dargor
Member
Aceofspades
Banned
Sony the masters of luck
Yeah , they are so lucky they occupy the top three slots of most sold consoles in history.
Dargor
Member
Who needs talent, vision and other stupid shit like that when you can always luck out lol
FranXico
Member
But of course, after lowballing to 8TF, now that Microsoft announced the new XBox to have twice the GPU power of the X1X, of course 12TF is feasible!So it looks like even Digital Foundry has finally joined double digit team
Maybe PS5 can reach 10TF, with luck...
The ninja farmer
Member
Totally agree on the split helping with contention , just like extra buses can help with bandwidth ratios and contention
the point I was making was based on the numbers on the leak and having 12 out of 20GB as DDR4.
would you not think that the split the other way would help the consoles performance more ? (12 out of 20 not being the slower memory)
or even following the ps4/pro with only a little of the Total memory being slower ? (I think it’s only around 1Gb in the pro but could be mistaken. that’s currently used to store background apps and possibly system activity in suspend mode)
Although I think the general ‘noise’ is around 4Gb for OS & tasks this time and even then if it’s all GDDR 6, with only lower power memory being used for apps and suspend
TBiddy
Member
Jesus christ, someone gets defensive. It's not exactly controversial that Sony took a huge gamble with GDDR5. The PS4 was an exceptional piece of hardware, but the choice to go with GDDR5 instead of DDR3 was a major gamble that (fortunately for Sony) paid of, but there was a real possibility that it could've hamstrung Sonys efforts with the PS4.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
Sony rocked tht ass this gen too but ppl never learn. Masochists to the core. I don't understand how it's not bannable putting any type of mistermediax stuff on here as he was wrong on all the bs Xbox schilling he did this Gen..
ANIMAL1975
Member
Only this year, at least 2 Sony engineers of PS5 team where prohibited of entering any Japanese casino, by the National Gaming Board. I think that's sadly telling.Sony the masters of luck
Like the French like say 'touchê monsieur'!But of course, after lowballing to 8TF, now that Microsoft announced the new XBox to have twice the GPU power of the X1X, of course 12TF is feasible!
Maybe PS5 can reach 10TF, with luck...
Fake
Gold Member
You're not helping yourself with those fanboy terms dude. Past tells otherwise.
eastwood333
Banned
Sony got lucky as MS screwed themselves with the XB1 by not making power the main focus,but kinect and Tv etc.. and packing kinect to up the price 100 bucks more than PS4.
llien
Member
Yeah, sure thing, only by that.
Not the Kinect thing:
Xbox One Loses Kinect, Drops to $400
Earlier this morning, Microsoft announced that they would be releasing a Kinect-less Xbox for $400 starting June 9, but in the end no Kinect is good for business but bad for video games.
www.popularmechanics.com
And not the decision nicely mocked in this clip:
And surely not because it doesn't have platform selling exclusives.
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It wasn't a gamble they was going with GDDR5 from the start they always go with some fast memory PS2 had embedded VRAM PS3 had XDR DRAM , GDDR5 was less of a gamble than what they did with PS2 & PS3 they just made the choice of going with more GDDR5 after weighing their options.
TBiddy
Member
You're right. It was poorly worded.
TheStruggler
Report me for trolling ND/TLoU2 threads
still wondering what is happening with the vetting, intrigued but also waiting patiently.
ThaMonkeyClaw
Member
Now if they had gone with the 4GB of GDDR5 like they had originally planned then I think Sony would have shot themselves in the foot, but luckily they listened to the developers!
ANIMAL1975
Member
That's not how it works, companies have to know the road maps for the parts they are going to use, before even choosing them. That should be clear i think. They are going to put together a combination of different hardware that as to work together in harmony. Don't you see the bottleneck that would be reducing to half!!! the amount of memory you will have for the the CPU, and the GPU, and the OS! you choose? It's HALF the memory!
If Sony gambled with anything, was with the possibility of not getting the chips on schedule and having to delay ps4s launch (that happens, it happened with PS3).
How i see it is _ what really happened was that Sony went with the better Ram and engineering solution (single pool) for their system, and Ms cheap out on pretty much everything, for bundling kinetic. Remember that they had to sell at 500 bucks and with lost! i think that says it all.
Old Empire.
Member
Sony's PS3 Plan: Lose $300 On Each Unit, But Make It Up In Volume
Much has been made of Sony’s ongoing supposed turnaround, and the Playstation 3 was supposed to play a significant role. But between the Sony battery fiasco and the multiple delays of the PS3…www.techdirt.com
Sony did not set out to win at a loss. Circumstances forced them to reduce the price of PS3. So never has Sony or Microsoft genuinely devoted themselves to making a console at a greater cost and later marketing it for cheaper. This is different gen and if it takes place I redraw what I added. The person who declaring to be insider said Sony will produce a 600 dollar console and advertise it 500 dollars? I doubt that, but I stand by and see if that develops.
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