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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Tulipanzo

Tulipanzo

Member
eastwood333 said:
No,but i think you maybe. Stating some obvious facts about XB1. Why do u ask such a stupid question?
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I don't want to be mean, but had to read that a few times.

PS4 succeeding only because XB1 was bad is one hell of a tepid take, and the grammar doesn't help at all.
 
xool

xool

Member
megreotsugua said:
Is the idea that ReRAM may actually be cheaper than Optane absurb and a wishful thinking?
10cz5f9xpt141.png


We cannot discount the fact that this professional analysis on its price may actually be true.
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My reading of that graph is not much difference in price between ReRAM and 3DXP in 2020 .. I think for 2020 you'd better read 202x ..

If they commercialise (Sony ReRAM) it's reasonable to expect it to be similar in price to Optane, and have similar scalability, despite Sony's claims (both based on "cross point" grid), unlike flash. We know so little about the fine details of the physics/chemisty of 3DXP ... some of that is moot though - even if one only scales to say 14nm - it may not matter - the "cross point grid" scales in 3 dimensions simply, and being stuck at 14nm will just leave them on a cheaper node

Competition would definately put pressure on Xpoint prices.

I mentioned before - imo - maybe PS6, but not PS5, not at launch anyway.
 
R

R600

Banned
it_wasn't_me said:
End of 2005. Like i said, very early in 2007 Mattrick joined X360 and best sales X360 saw under him. All hail to Don Mattrick. :)

dmc4ios2.gif
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360 set the pace befote Don Mattrick could have implemented his strat. Its like I design future CPU design for AMD, then you come and enjoy the fruites of that design and fuck up next one but say "oh I was there when we had best years".
 
01011001

01011001

Banned
it_wasn't_me said:
Hardware Design philosophy has nothing to do with sales. LOL! What are you smoking.:D Yeah, Wii destroyed X360 and PS3 in sales. How Wii was designed? Weak, with motion controls in mind. And 3rd party support were crap
He was in charge of X360. I said, he joined X360 team in early 2007. And X360 saw the biggest sales under him. Let's clap one more time :

dmc4ios2.gif
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ah yes, because in 2007 the Xbox 360 magically transformed into a different system the moment he walked into the office. and 200 exclusives just fell from the sky that moment, oh glory to Mattrick!

the 360 didn't at all start to sell well because they were developing games that were released then... like, oh I don't know... FUCKING HALO 3!
 
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it_wasn't_me

it_wasn't_me

Banned
R600 said:
360 set the pace befote Don Mattrick could have implemented his strat. Its like I design future CPU design for AMD, then you come and enjoy the fruites of that design and fuck up next one but say "oh I was there when we had best years".
Click to expand...

X360 sold 10 mil. in 1 year and a half. Under Mattrick X360 yearly sales were much better. Especially 2008/09/10
 
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T

Thorrgal

Member
pawel86ck said:
That's what Klee started saying later on, but I dont accept excuses like that. If I would know for sure XSX GPU is not 64CU, then I would never quote everything (including misinformation) and say "bingo" to that. I would specifically say 12TF metric is correct, but not CU's.

I'm not saying Klee is fake insider, because who knows maybe he is not lying, but at this point I just cant trust him.
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Ok, fair enough. I don't think is that serious an offense, but I can see how that may rub people the wrong way.

We are all free to trust whomever we want :)

I trust him, but if he's wrong nothing whatsoever will change in our life hehe
 
TeamGhobad

TeamGhobad

Banned
is this why lockhart was cancelled? because having 2 skus weaker than the ps5 is just suicide...
which why i believe the new lockhart is just the anaconda sans discdrive. 100bucks cheaper.
 
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xool

xool

Member
eastwood333 said:
Mattrick was not at Xbox during design of Xbox 360. Try again. Are you trying to argue against facts? Xbox One was not designed to be a powerful gaming machine.
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360 had a great launch (2005) Mattrick joined MS 2007. From 2008 the sensation of "twisting in the wind" as an xbox fan became more and more prevalent (I remember). In 2010 Kinect launched.

They got an install base, took it for granted, then decided to milk it for a $100 trash add on. Playing the blaim game it's easy to draw the dots to Mattrick.
 
Lone Wolf

Lone Wolf

Member
xool said:
360 had a great launch (2005) Mattrick joined MS 2007. From 2008 the sensation of "twisting in the wind" as an xbox fan became more and more prevalent (I remember). In 2010 Kinect launched.

They got an install base, took it for granted, then decided to milk it for a $100 trash add on. Playing the blaim game it's easy to draw the dots to Mattrick.
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Hey!! it was a $150 trash add on sir!
 
E

eastwood333

Banned
Tulipanzo said:
I don't want to be mean, but had to read that a few times.

PS4 succeeding only because XB1 was bad is one hell of a tepid take, and the grammar doesn't help at all.
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I did not say that was the sole reason. I'm not talking sells. I'm specifically talking about why PS4 had a 40% power advantage over XB1. Grammar? Try typing on a console browser(laggy) via controller.
 
Ar¢tos

Ar¢tos

Member
TeamGhobad said:
is this why lockhart was cancelled? because having 2 skus weaker than the ps5 is just suicide...
which why i believe the new lockhart is just the anaconda sans discdrive. 100bucks cheaper.
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That's a really expensive disc drive!
They cost them around 10-20$ a piece buying in bulk.
 
E

eastwood333

Banned
Agnostic2020 said:
Is that why on the their x1 preorder page they had the slogan of most powerful console ? Lol get real bud
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You are aware that MS stated Xbox One was not designed around power? PS,you do not need MS Pr to prove my case,look at the design. It made crucial sacrifices for the addition of kinect
 
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O

onQ123

Member
megreotsugua said:
Would you mind elucidate? What would be its use cases. Not streaming textures and RT I suppose.

And what bandwidth could that stack RAM be at?
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I think this is the important part for a console


"In contrast, true 3D stacking consists of two die (in this case, memory and a processor) placed on top of each other and connected through vertical TSV connections that mate the die directly together. These TSV connections, which transfer data between the two die at the fastest speeds possible, typically reside in the center of the die. That direct mating increases performance and reduces power consumption (all data movement requires power, but direct connections streamline the process). 3D stacking also affords density advantages. "
 
TeamGhobad

TeamGhobad

Banned
Ar¢tos said:
That's a really expensive disc drive!
They cost them around 10-20$ a piece buying in bulk.
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its the version MS wants you to buy cause then every game purchase has to go through their store, no more used or bargain bin games. they make substantially more money off of you and gamepass becomes a must. so 100dollar incentive is not much they will regain that 10fold during the gen cycle.
 
B

BattleScar

Member
Dory16 said:
All we know for sure is that Microsoft is making power their paramount goal with this console. They're literally not marketing anything other than its power. Sony not as much. Sony has touted loading times and a better controller.
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Maybe that means something. Maybe it doesn't. Again, no definitive statements have been made. We cannot and will not know until the full specifications of each consoles are laid bare. Until then it's speculation.

Digital Foundry has gone through all the information released by both manufacturers and AMD and concluded that if Sony's GPU has been made by AMD in 2019, it is unlikely that it will be more powerful given what we already know about the Xbox GPU. Can it still be, thanks to secret sauce and customisations? Theoritically yes. We probably won't find out which one is really more powerful until well into the generation me thinks. Both will have something to use to claim advantage over the other, whether it's the better SSD, more RAM or a more nerdy GPU.
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Digital Foundry know about as much about the next consoles as any of us do. So far we've heard nothing of the console APUs being taped out for production. Until then nothing is final. TSMC'S yields on 7nm have been hilariously high (defect densities on N7 being <0.09/mm2), so both Sony and Microsoft could shit out massive dies. Then again, they might not get the waver allocation they want to achieve that cause AMD will prioritize wafer supply for the much higher margin Epyc CPUs.
There is so much we don't know.
The series X could in fact be the more powerful box, I don't deny it. From the way they've designed the actual hardware, it does look like it's gonna be something of a beast. But Sony haven't played all their cards yet either. There is talk about how Sony could cool a 2GHz chip, as if we know what the form factor for the PS5 is, to suggest that it would be impossible. Do we even know if the PS5 will actually operate at 2GHz? They could very well have just been stress testing the prototype chip (calculating power curves etc.)
We don't and won't know until it's officially laid out. I don't know why there is so much conflict over who is more powerful. Meanwhile the switch is over in the corner selling gangbusters with barely a single teraflop of peak compute performance.

Side note: I do find it odd that the SeriesX being more powerful is expected, but the opposite being suggested causes all sorts of friction.
 
megreotsugua

megreotsugua

Banned
onQ123 said:
"Nonetheless, AMD is moving to adopt new stacked memory architectures as it sees this as the most important step in the near term. AMD already stacks HBM2 memory next to its GPU die, meaning it resides in the same package as the processor, but the company plans to move to true 3D stacking in the near future.
Norrod explained that AMD is working on stacking SRAM and DRAM memory directly on top of computing components (like CPUs and GPUs) to expose even more bandwidth and performance."
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised. Sony could help AMD with 3D stacking RAM chips. They've done that in PS Vita and they're doing that in the millions of CMOS image sensors they make.

With HBCC and Gen Z, programming for non-unified memory may not be as daunting as it was before.
 
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E

eastwood333

Banned
Would like to add,given the 10% PS5 power advantage claim by Klee is true,one console or the other may have more room to upclock,or make other minor changes late in the game to squash a 5%-10% advantaage. Just throwing that out there.
 
ZywyPL

ZywyPL

Banned
BattleScar said:
All of this is common sense.
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Common sense also says both consoles will be build on the exact sam tech from the exact same vendor. So if Sony/MS desperately wanted to know that the competition can have, they would simply go to AMD saying "we want to hmake ev the fastest console one the planed, show us what you got", and then AMD could show them let's say a 64CU 2GHz 7nm GPU, and Sony/MS would be "cool, how much is it?" - "250$" - "nah, way too expensive, we have to cut it down to 100" - but they would already know what's the most capable hardware AMD can offer at the time, and they would know their competitor will also have to cut down the CU ad clocks to fit within a desired price point. It's like both Lambo and Ferrari wen't to Brembo for 420mm carbon-ceramic brake discs and 10-pot calipers - there's 99.99% chance they both would be shown the exact same kit, without actually knowing what the other company was doing. OR better yet - the tires - no matter what manufacture they would ask they would still and up with a cylinder-shaped black rubber. So back to consoles - there will surely some customization done on both sides, and some CU/clock differences, but about 90 of the APUs will be exactly the same, if there would be Intel and/or Nvidia being considered, then we could speculate whole day long, but in current situation AMD could as well build their own console and just let Sony/MS install their own OS nad software on it and call it a day.
 
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Dory16

Dory16

Banned
BattleScar said:
Side note: I do find it odd that the SeriesX being more powerful is expected, but the opposite being suggested causes all sorts of friction.
Click to expand...
You must not have been in this thread long enough. It is blanketed with rumour after rumour from "anonymous sources with spec sheets" that the PS will be more powerful and that's the general expectation in this thread.
 
THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
TeamGhobad said:
10% extra power means 13.2 teraflops...could have sworn ive seen this figure in a pastebin.
Click to expand...

I think a key thing we have to remember, and is probably the reason Phil Spencer isn't committing to stating 12TF outright, is that 12TF is a target. They'll probably get there for the retail box but even Xbox' biggest fans like Dealer have stressed it is just a target. So any talk of percentages between both systems is meaningless right now.

I just hope Santa brings me the present I want: PS5 reveal date. So we can move on from the power struggle. Bring on the games! (GT7 will make me droooolllll)
 
TeamGhobad

TeamGhobad

Banned
im really curious about PS5s RAM setup. It can't be GGDR6 because if it was Cerny would have said so in that initial article. I think they are doing something special there...

Nickolaidas said:
MS should focus on winning because of better exclusives, not because of better tech.

Though truth be told, they seem to be on the right track.
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most of their games are kinda AA games. they don't really have that amazing system seller yet. this is where The Initiative comes in.
 
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B

BattleScar

Member
ZywyPL said:
Common sense also says both consoles will be build on the exact sam tech from the exact same vendor. So if Sony/MS desperately wanted to know that the competition can have, they would simply go to AMD saying "we want to hmake ev the fastest console one the planed, show us what you got", and then AMD could show them let's say a 64CU 2GHz 7nm GPU, and Sony/MS would be "cool, how much is it?" - "250$" - "nah, way too expensive, we have to cut it down to 100" - but they would already know what's the most capable hardware AMD can offer at the time, and they would know their competitor will also have to cut down the CU ad clocks to fit within a desired price point. It's like both Lambo and Ferrari wen't to Brembo for 420mm carbon-ceramic brake discs and 10-pot calipers - there's 99.99% chance they both would be shown the exact same kit, without actually knowing what the other company was doing. So back to consoles - there will surely some customization done on both sides, and some CU/clock differences, but about 90 of the APUs will be exactly the same, if there would be Intel and/or Nvidia being considered, then we could speculate whole day long, but in current situation AMD could as well build their own console and just let Sony/MS install their own OS nad software on it and call it a day.
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AMD don't make off-the-shelf APUs with GPUs as big as these consoles will have. These chips will likely have been purpose designed by Sony and Microsoft for each company's individual needs.

The PS4 had 8 asynchronous compute engines instead of the 2(?) that the 7850 it was based on had. The PS4 Pro doubled up on the PS4 GPU and imported features not yet released from Vega (FP16 compute). The Xbox One X had a Polaris GPU that was and remains to this day the largest Polaris GPU ever designed (44CU, 40 active).
 
TeamGhobad

TeamGhobad

Banned
onQ123 said:
Xbox 360 did have it's best year when Kinect was released how is that trolling?
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kinect was in development before he stepped in. he singlehandedly killed off the xbox brand. and honestly i don't think xbox can ever recover. not even with a better system here.
 
ZywyPL

ZywyPL

Banned
BattleScar said:
AMD don't make off-the-shelf APUs with GPUs as big as these consoles will have. These chips will likely have been purpose designed by Sony and Microsoft for each company's individual needs.

The PS4 had 8 asynchronous compute engines instead of the 2(?) that the 7850 it was based on had. The PS4 Pro doubled up on the PS4 GPU and imported features not yet released from Vega (FP16 compute). The Xbox One X had a Polaris GPU that was and remains to this day the largest Polaris GPU ever designed (44CU, 40 active).
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And still, at it's core it was still GCN vs GCN vs GCN vs GCN. The so called customization was actually utilized only by a handful of 1st party devs (if ever), but the vast majority (like 99%) of games never actually bothered, and the only performance differences came directly from different CU count, nothing more.
 
TeamGhobad

TeamGhobad

Banned
it_wasn't_me said:
Project Natal a.k.a Kinect ( later ) was under him.
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it was an awful product. it sold 25million copies and had no good games and didn't work about 30% of the time. i bought one. had it plugged in for about 5min unplugged it and that was it. he based he entire nexgen on it.
and project natal existed before he got onboard.
 
B

Bladed Thesis

Member
My one thing about both nextgen consoles is the fact that everybody is saying they should take a loss on these consoles. Looking at the rumored specs, we know these will be expensive. $500-600 dep
demigod said:
Ahhh didn't know that. I rarely use twitter. Like the only time I used it was for batphone on EQ. I would probably take out Activision though.
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How could you take out Activision though? Sekiro, Destiny 1 and 2, Blizzard games?
 
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