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[mrklaw]

Not that it's a particularly fair comparison (60fps vs 30fps and all), but here's a pretty good comparison of Forza 6, Driveclub and PCars in a range of conditions, views etc. Some of you may recognise who one of the top comments is from lol. No guesses needed as to it's contents

Forza 6 vs. DriveClub vs. Project CARS | Graphics, Rain & Weather Gameplay Comparison (PS4 & Xbox)

Why is the Forza 6 footage so jerky? The game is way smoother but the video makes Driveclub look smoother.

Forza looks too clinical. There is something that Driveclub is doing that makes it look more 'filmed'. Whether that is camera focal length, colour grading, other post effects - I can't put my finger on it but it is more than just the lighting I think. Just makes everything seem more planted

In the chase cam rain view, Forza has that similar megarace look that horizon 2 did - the car just looks like it is superimposed over background footage. Just ruins it for me. In Forza 6 I'd never be in chase cam view, but in horizon I often was for the higher viewpoint. But Forza has better environmental effects - I love the spray/mist hanging around the track that you drive through, looks great. Cockpit view Driveclub for me. Just more violent. Driving at speed through rain is not a gentle thing. Even at normal road speeds heavy rain is terrifying at how quickly you lose vision and the noise is really loud. Driveclub captures that way better. Road effects are a wash I think - both look great although maybe driveclub's dry tyre track effects give it a little bit of an edge

Night is a poor comparison as both cars and Forza are on lit racetracks. Would like to see that comoared again when the full Forza game is out to see properly dark tracks (are there any?)

 

[TrojanBlade]

Forza really needs to add some shadows under the car. It looks really bad.

God damn that comparison video...DC so ahead of pCars and F6 its not even funny. I think F6 cars look really shitty like cartoonish in-game at least from that video. When the video switched from F6 to DC, specially in the rain, it was like looking at a video game and going to a real-life video. The lighting, sound, post processing is another level in DC ... i mean look at this .... wow!

I think GT7 will dethrone it but even then it will be really close.

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

Why is the Forza 6 footage so jerky? The game is way smoother but the video makes Driveclub look smoother.

Forza looks too clinical. There is something that Driveclub is doing that makes it look more 'filmed'. Whether that is camera focal length, colour grading, other post effects - I can't put my finger on it but it is more than just the lighting I think. Just makes everything seem more planted

30FPS video and somehow the encode has made Forza framerate look like shit. Maybe a result of making it 30. Even so I have to say that the replays in Forza look like junk. Looks good in motion and playing the actual game, but those replays look similar to what GT5 was putting out years ago.

 

[Cyborg]

DC look so sexy, when I see it I wanna play it.

Spoiler

Can't, I have MGS

 

[Synth]

NHow so? Compare a Forza 6 replay to a DC replay given they're both 30fps.

Unless I'm wrong, but it looked to me in a YT video that in-game FM6 was 60 but the replay was 30.


Hm. Wonder why they didn't tinker more with it then? Figure they'd want to make it look as good as possible in replays.

Because targeting a locked 60fps is more than just toggles. It goes right down to a game's DNA. You're effectively targeting a platform that has half the rendering budget, and removing that restriction after the fact isn't going to let you simply swap in a game built for double that budget, unless you're basically creating two versions of the game especially to have one showcased in the replay. As it is, FM6 can't really put anything in a replay that it's not able to run at a locked 60fps simply by dialling down a few sliders. What you're suggesting is a bit like going "oh hey! TLoU Remastered has a 30fps mode... Let's see some like-for-like comparisons with The Order to see how Naughty Dog compares to Ready at Dawn". It's a ridiculous suggestion because even when running at 30fps it must still adhere to many limitations placed on it by the original rendering budget it was afforded.

I honestly assumed you must have been joking at first.

 

[eso76]

Why is the Forza 6 footage so jerky? The game is way smoother but the video makes Driveclub look smoother.

Because Driveclub is designed to look smooth at 30fps and uses motion blur with a 180° shutter angle.

Motion blur is generally absent from 60fps, that's why they suffer in the 30fps conversion.

Well, to be precise, FM5 did use some MB ingame (not sure about fm6) but it was likely 90° angle, which is the right amount for 60fps, not enough for 30.

 

[flipswitch]

Because Driveclub is designed to look smooth at 30fps and uses motion blur with a 180° shutter angle.

Motion blur is generally absent from 60fps, that's why they suffer in the 30fps conversion.

Well, to be precise, FM5 did use some MB ingame (not sure about fm6) but it was likely 90° angle, which is the right amount for 60fps, not enough for 30.

PC uses motion blur on consoles, runs at 60fps ( most of the time)

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

God damn that comparison video...DC so ahead of pCars and F6 its not even funny. I think F6 cars look really shitty like cartoonish in-game at least from that video. When the video switched from F6 to DC, specially in the rain, it was like looking at a video game and going to a real-life video. The lighting, sound, post processing is another level in DC ... i mean look at this .... wow!

I think GT7 will dethrone it but even then it will be really close.

Cannot imagine what GT7 would look like in such a case. Car models without a doubt. GT is top. Their lighting engine is also the best. The environments is what could make or break this.

 

[Woodchipper]

GT6 still looks amazing at moments, so yeah, GT7 will be something else!

 

[SolarMystic]

I think GT7 will dethrone it but even then it will be really close.

I don't think they would be able to do that if they want it to remain a sim. GT7 would have to sacrifice fps big time and make cut backs in the physics department.

It will look great no doubt, but an arcade racer will always look better than a sim on console, as long as both developers are equally competent.

 

[Synth]

This thread was created because there was always a pissing contest about what racer looks best. So this thread was born so any graphics comparison could be done here instead of the dedicated threads of the different racers. We can compare graphics because it is a bit objective, we can't compare physics because it is very subjective and there is no quantifiable/qualifiable way to compare them without direct access to the underlying physics systems, same applies to AI.

That is why "but 60fps, AI or physics" is not an argument that is welcomed in this thread. How can you prove that Forza 6 physics is better than Project Cars or Driveclub when DC is a Simcade with over 1 million players who have enjoyed the often proclaimed inferior physics by those who use the argument "but blank game has more advanced physics"?

Sorry, but not only is framerate an aspect of visuals, but it's also very much objective (moreso than anything else we're discussing here actually). I don't get why people are trying to lump it in with AI, physics, or other "invisible" resource costs.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Also with no framerate or frame pacing issues it's certainly the smoothest 30fps racer I've played and Evo managed to capture a real sense of speed in it, something which a lot of 30fps racers lose.

DC has a better sense of speed than even some 60fps racers .
I really forward to seeing GT7 , don't think it going beat DC overall but in certain areas .

 

[Mascot]

Forza really needs to add some shadows under the car. It looks really bad.

I think it's that the spray in the FM6 shot obliterates the shadow and tyre tracks. Turn 10 really should take a look at this because it does make it look like the cars are floating at times.

Gotta say, I continue to be completely flabbergasted by DC's visuals. They are out there on their own.

Edit: I don't normally like quoting gifs but fuuuuuuu...uuuuuck me.

 

[spyshagg]

sorry guys, but its driveclub.


I believe its down to studio talent. There must be someone at Evo that is very very gifted. There's an Art to Driveclub looks.

 

[Mabufu]

Sorry, but not only is framerate an aspect of visuals, but it's also very much objective (moreso than anything else we're discussing here actually). I don't get why people are trying to lump it in with AI, physics, or other "invisible" resource costs.

Frame rate is not an aspect of visuals. You cant perceive anything related to fps in a picture. Frame rate is about motion perception and it's not a graphical quality.

You dont see fps, you "feel it", and this thread is for talking about the things you can see -> graphics/visuals.

 

[Synth]

Frame rate is not an aspect of visuals. You cant perceive anything related to fps in a picture. Frame rate is about motion perception and it's not a graphical quality.

You dont see fps, you "feel it", and this thread is for talking about the things you can see -> graphics/visuals.

I can't believe I just read that framerate isn't something you see... wow.

We happen to not actually be limited to picture... much like the games themselves aren't. You may notice that this thread is flooded with gifs, and links to videos. There's a reason for that.

 

[c0de]

I can't believe I just read that framerate isn't something you see... wow.

We happen to not actually be limited to picture... much like the games themselves aren't. You may notice that this thread is flooded with gifs, and links to videos. There's a reason for that.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=177432317&postcount=4963

 

[crazysapertonight]

sorry guys, but its driveclub.

Yeah, while I was playing demo yesterday, I imagine, how stunning it will be, to play driveclub with Oculus Rift. I think, with game like this, VR could become a hit very fast)

With its light system and weather effects, Driveclub looks very impressive, and put into shame other games. But what is ruining visual experience for me in this game is other things, like really bad AF (it is hard to see on a small gifs, but at night road looks like pop-in texture, very blurry), and game really lacking clearness/crisp of image.

 

[Mabufu]

Yeah, while I was playing demo yesterday, I imagine, how stunning it will be, to play driveclub with Oculus Rift. I think, with game like this, VR could become a hit very fast)

With its light system and weather effects, Driveclub looks very impressive, and put into shame other games. But what is ruining visual experience to me in this game is other things, like really bad AF (it is hard to see on a small gifs, but at night road looks like pop-in texture, very blurry), and game really lacking clearness/crisp of image.

I though I was the only one to notice this : /

 

[Melfice7]

Just played Driveclub with camera shake set to 0 for the first time... its 10 times more enjoyable now

If devs love the shakes so much so be it but they should all give the option to turn it off

:bow Evo studios

 

[EGM1966]

Well optimized game at 30fps and 1080p looks better than well optimized game at 60fps and 1080p. Amazing.

Both look good given the HW spec of the console they're running on and their respective focus. Clearly DC is going to look better, it would be crazy if it didn't though. It has twice the time to render a very pleasing visual image.

When we get GT7 is when this thread will get very interesting (and I'll be bringing my popcorn). Until then it's like a nice appetizer with pretty gifs.

 

[Tripolygon]

Sorry, but not only is framerate an aspect of visuals, but it's also very much objective (moreso than anything else we're discussing here actually). I don't get why people are trying to lump it in with AI, physics, or other "invisible" resource costs.

60fps is a part of the visuals but not an important part to what makes a game looks objectively best. Like there is no way in hell anyone can say Phantom Pain 60fps looks better than Uncharted 4 30fps. That is why I threw it in there with AI and Physics when we are discussing Graphics.

60fps doesn't make any racer look better than DC so it is a pointless argument to bring into the thread. You may use it as an excuse why a certain game might not look better graphically tho but that's a pointless argument. Post a 60fps video of any racer and the conclusion will still be DC looks better.

Is 60fps objectively better than 30fps for smoother motion perception and responsive control? Yes. If given the option between Driveclub as it is at 30fps or the visuals downgraded to get 60fps, I will choose Driveclub as it is at 30fps. But if I can have DC visuals as it is and at 60fps, I will definitely prefer that. That is why AAA developers for the most part go with 30fps over 60fps on consoles.

Something has to give for 60fps and as the saying goes, frame rate is sacrificed for visuals. Which is kind of a silly statement since frame rate is part of the visual presentation of a game. But we all understand what it means.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

There's no comparison. Every aspect of the graphics in Driveclub are above and beyond those of Forza 6. That doesn't make Forza 6 a bad looking game though, it's merely an indication of how incredible Driveclub is. It's difficult to describe what it is about Driveclub that makes it look incredible. It's as if you can imagine the polygonal build beneath the paintwork of Forza 6 but with Driveclub, it doesn't even cross your mind.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Driveclub looks straight up real life in many instances.
I can't imagine a 60FPS racer beating that. Much of the realism comes from lighting in DC and the weather simulation and I just don't think that you can fit advanced lighting and weather simulation like that in a 16.6ms per frame budget on a console.

I mean look at that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh5wjxqyLO4

Polyphony had to work sick magic to beat that while having all the necessary physics simulation for a sim, more cars on track and still only take half the time for each frame.

 

[Noobcraft]

Because Driveclub is designed to look smooth at 30fps and uses motion blur with a 180° shutter angle.

Motion blur is generally absent from 60fps, that's why they suffer in the 30fps conversion.

Well, to be precise, FM5 did use some MB ingame (not sure about fm6) but it was likely 90° angle, which is the right amount for 60fps, not enough for 30.

Forza 6 has motion blur.

 

[bud]

forza's issue when it comes to its visuals is, and always has been, its lighting and how the environment reacts to it. i don't think it is a conscious decision they've made; i figure it's just down to their artists not being skilled enough to recreate natural lighting.

in plenty of cases, gt5--which is a five-year old game on ten-year old hardware--looks more realistic than forza 6 (based on what i've seen of it so far).

 

[GeordieMark]

There's no comparison. Every aspect of the graphics in Driveclub are above and beyond those of Forza 6. That doesn't make Forza 6 a bad looking game though, it's merely an indication of how incredible Driveclub is. It's difficult to describe what it is about Driveclub that makes it look incredible. It's as if you can imagine the polygonal build beneath the paintwork of Forza 6 but with Driveclub, it doesn't even cross your mind.

Probably the fact that it runs at half the frame rate of Forza 6 helps significantly.

Comparing the two is absolutely pointless. Driveclub puts eye candy over gameplay, Forza does the opposite.

Its hardly surprising Driveclub looks better.

 

[eso76]

Forza 6 has motion blur.

So like FM5 then.
Still a 90° shutter angle isn't enough to look smooth at 30fps and in a 30fps comparison video DC (and FH2) will always look smoother

 

[FreezerGeezer]

Probably the fact that it runs at half the frame rate of Forza 6 helps significantly.

Comparing the two is absolutely pointless. Driveclub puts eye candy over gameplay, Forza does the opposite.

Its hardly surprising Driveclub looks better.

You do realise the very point of this thread is to compare them in that regard, right?

 

[PulseONE]

Forza looks great and the 60fps is definitely a boon, but honestly you show it and Driveclub side by side to almost anyone and they'll say Driveclub

The effects and lighting are just too amazing

GT7 will melt faces

 

[derExperte]

Something has to give for 60fps and as the saying goes, frame rate is sacrificed for visuals. Which is kind of a silly statement since frame rate is part of the visual presentation of a game. But we all understand what it means.

We all certainly understand why some want to remove framerate from the equation.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

forza's issue when it comes to its visuals is, and always has been, its lighting and how the environment reacts to it. i don't think it is a conscious decision they've made; i figure it's just down to their artists not being skilled enough to recreate natural lighting.

in plenty of cases, gt5--which is a five-year old game on ten-year old hardware--looks more realistic than forza 6 (based on what i've seen of it so far).

They've made some strides to reach a more natural...realistic look, the way the cars pop does seem a bit too stylistic at times. Things are moving in the right direction.

Maintaining a minimum 60fps at all times must need some almighty overheads, as long as that target is a priority it's hard to judge artistic talent.

 

[airjoca]

Probably the fact that it runs at half the frame rate of Forza 6 helps significantly.

Comparing the two is absolutely pointless. Driveclub puts eye candy over gameplay, Forza does the opposite.

Its hardly surprising Driveclub looks better.

Over framerate, yes. Over gameplay, no. Gameplay is awesome.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

Visually I think it was always expected, no?
I mean... Forza M.6 is running on a weaker hardware at double the frame rate compared to DriveClub.

Those expecting GT7 to run at 60fps and looking as good as DriveClub will be disappointed though.

 

[Noobcraft]

Visually I think it was always expected, no?
I mean... Forza M.6 is running on a weaker hardware at double the frame rate compared to DriveClub.

Those expecting GT7 to run at 60fps and looking as good as DriveClub will be disappointed though.

No no. I have to believe. I also believe it will have the GPS track maker.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Probably the fact that it runs at half the frame rate of Forza 6 helps significantly.

Comparing the two is absolutely pointless. Driveclub puts eye candy over gameplay, Forza does the opposite.

Its hardly surprising Driveclub looks better.

That's completely wrong. Driveclub plays and feels phenomenal as well as looking better. And this is a thread about graphics.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

forza's issue when it comes to its visuals is, and always has been, its lighting and how the environment reacts to it. i don't think it is a conscious decision they've made; i figure it's just down to their artists not being skilled enough to recreate natural lighting.

in plenty of cases, gt5--which is a five-year old game on ten-year old hardware--looks more realistic than forza 6 (based on what i've seen of it so far).

Its a very concious decision.
All forza titles on xb1 use a forward renderer. That allows them to hit 1080/60 but it makes advanced lighting technics and multiple dynamic light souces impossible.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Its a very concious decision.
All forza titles on xb1 use a forward renderer. That allows them to hit 1080/60 but it makes advanced lighting technics and multiple dynamic light souces impossible.

Forza 6 has a LOT of dynamic lights coming from cars at night. There's two per car and if you're near a bunch of cars they'll be active on all of them.

 

[MJLord]

Graphical fidelity and Drivclub has everything beat.

As for aesthetic and my overall choice, it's got to be Horizons 2. It just looks, pleasant.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Visually I think it was always expected, no?
I mean... Forza M.6 is running on a weaker hardware at double the frame rate compared to DriveClub.

Those expecting GT7 to run at 60fps and looking as good as DriveClub will be disappointed though.

The disappointment would be if GT7 only looked as good as DRIVECLUB. The expectations for a generation GT's visuals are higher than that. This is what they were doing five years ago on hardware that's obviously significantly weaker

 

[GeordieMark]

That's completely wrong. Driveclub plays and feels phenomenal as well as looking better. And this is a thread about graphics.

Well, personally I think Forza plays better, and is a far more complex simulation.

I know the thread is about graphics, and accept that DC is prettier than FM6, but find it rather silly to talk about and compare graphics in isolation.

 

[Loris146]

The disappointment would be if GT7 only looked as good as DRIVECLUB. The expectations for a generation GT's visuals are higher than that. This is what they were doing five years ago on hardware that's obviously significantly weaker

Obligatory: Ferrari 458 trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mZMClPxpkk

 

[Foutrologue]

Forza 6 has a LOT of dynamic lights coming from cars at night. There's two per car and if you're near a bunch of cars they'll be active on all of them.

Exactly

http://www.gamersyde.com/hqstream_forza_motorsport_6_nurburgring_at_night_replay-35695_en.html

 

[KORNdoggy]

but find it rather silly to talk about and compare graphics in isolation.

clearly not the thread for you then. lol

 

[Handy Fake]

God damn that comparison video...DC so ahead of pCars and F6 its not even funny. I think F6 cars look really shitty like cartoonish in-game at least from that video. When the video switched from F6 to DC, specially in the rain, it was like looking at a video game and going to a real-life video. The lighting, sound, post processing is another level in DC ... i mean look at this .... wow!

I think GT7 will dethrone it but even then it will be really close.

That really is something special.

 

[Ricky_R]

Not that it's a particularly fair comparison (60fps vs 30fps and all), but here's a pretty good comparison of Forza 6, Driveclub and PCars in a range of conditions, views etc. Some of you may recognise who one of the top comments is from lol. No guesses needed as to it's contents

Forza 6 vs. DriveClub vs. Project CARS | Graphics, Rain & Weather Gameplay Comparison (PS4 & Xbox)

Man, that sense of speed in DC is amazing. They did a great job with it.

 

[KORNdoggy]

Exactly

http://www.gamersyde.com/hqstream_forza_motorsport_6_nurburgring_at_night_replay-35695_en.html

hard to tell there, but do the headlights cast shadows. it's one of the cooler elements of driveclubs lighting imo. seeing your headlights cast a huge stretched shadow of the car in front.

 

[Purest 78]

Each to their own I guess but Forza is a great sough, while DC is more arcade racer.

I personally love DriveClub for what it is, despite it's 30fps cap. I guess it's the graphics that give it a next gen feel that makes it special, because it's certainly pushing graphics beyond any other racer.

Also with no framerate or frame pacing issues it's certainly the smoothest 30fps racer I've played and Evo managed to capture a real sense of speed in it, something which a lot of 30fps racers lose.

The Immersion In Driveclub is just ridiculous, the visuals play a huge role in that. There's times when I'm playing and it looks so real.

 

[Foutrologue]

hard to tell there, but do the headlights cast shadows. it's one of the cooler elements of driveclubs lighting imo. seeing your headlights cast a huge stretched shadow of the car in front.

Yes they do.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

It shows how much the graphics can take a hit though when pushing for 60fps on console. One thing I don't really like about Forza though, is the colour pallet and that wet shine effect.

With the colours being very saturated and the wet effect very strong, the game sometimes looks like it's lost all detail on the cars and tracks, especially when you compare it to DC which keeps all that nice detail in wet weather, Forza Horizon 2 had the same issue.

I think if they changed the colour pallet for something a little more realistic and changed how they do the wet effect, it might look much better.