could you post an image of it? they don't seem to in the gamesyde video? there are times in the corners i'd expect shadows to be cast all up the walls as approaching cars came closer to those slowing and turning for the corner. but nothing?
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
could you post an image of it? they don't seem to in the gamesyde video? there are times in the corners i'd expect shadows to be cast all up the walls as approaching cars came closer to those slowing and turning for the corner. but nothing?
TheAdmiester
Member
It's a hard effect to catch a lot of the time. Most of the time your headlights are projecting on the car ahead, but the shadows are killed off by the front car's own headlights. I'll see if I can find an example though.
AbandonedTrolley
Member
But if you show me a screenshot or a video of the dynamic lighting I can see that and make an opinion. Show me the same video and I couldn't tell you if it felt realistic in terms of physics as I'm not playing it. Hence this is a thread based solely on graphics as those a plain and simple, unless people are blind or have rose tinted glasses on.
TheAdmiester
Member
Here, the player car's headlights are making a slight shadow from the Corvette.
AbandonedTrolley
Member
Here, the player car's headlights are making a slight shadow from the Corvette.
Nice to see it's included, as you say not very prominent due to the lights on the car itself, but it's certainly there.
SolidSnakex
Member
Exactly! Polyphony knows their shit when it comes to visuals. Specifically, they know their shit when it comes to making their games look realistic. But I guess we can only speculate until they finally show it.
That 458 trailer makes the wait even longer since I want a new PD trailer. Their trailer editing is top notch.
But full global illumination and advanced lightning system isn't a piece of cake either.
Main issue with GT graphically is the IQ and environment quality. But when it all comes together, it's pure wizardry. I mean, this is what they achieved 5 years ago .
GT5 - Day to Night to Day transition - F1 - Nurbergring
GeordieMark
Member
Forza went for an advanced driving simulation and frames per second, DC went for an advanced weather and lighting simulation. This is kind of what I was saying; one game used the available resources to try to make a realistic driving model, and the other decided to prioritise realistic lighting and weather, or in simple terms, gameplay vs graphics. That isn't to say DC isn't fun, but its driving model is nowhere near as advanced as Forza.
Summer Haze
Banned
Well, yeah, it's a sim and DC isn't...
Exactly. DriveClub is an arcade racer, Sony wouldn't compete against themselves. They already have Gran Turismo for the sim niche.
Summer Haze
Banned
The problem is you're equating framerate to gameplay and Forza's handling model to fun .The latter is completely subjective. And sure, framerate does improve gameplay through how much smoother the game looks and feels to play, but gameplay mechanics and how the game itself feels to play also matters, and imo is the most important factor. Sunset Overdrive is a great example of this. That game is easily one the most fun games I've played so far this gen and yet it runs at 30fps, with some dips in places. That's thanks to it's gameplay design and mechanics.
DC's gameplay would be improved at 60fps, no question there, but the more arcade-style, late-breaking handling model and sense of speed in DC is what makes it one of the most fun racers I've ever played, right up there with PGR4 (which was also 30fps) despite only running at 30fps.
gundamkyoukai
Member
But it's not so simple unless you think weather ( Rain and Snow ) and dynamic lighting don't effect gameplay .
Gameplay is more than fps , weather and lighting conditions can totally change a race .
diffusionx
Gold Member
I read threads like this and see that developers who prioritize 30fps for the eye candy are usually making the right decision.
Yes 60fps feels materially better but that doesn't translate to screenshots, Youtube videos, and GIFs. And those things are what drives sales.
Yes 60fps feels materially better but that doesn't translate to screenshots, Youtube videos, and GIFs. And those things are what drives sales.
GeordieMark
Member
Well obviously. You are quoting out of context.
I wasn't just talking about framerate though. I'm talking about stuff like tyre simulation, physics etc. Forza is a much deeper experience. This doesn't mean DC isn't fun too. I just think one game is doing far more under the bonnet in terms of trying to replicate driving, whilst the other is happy to settle for a shallower arcade experience, but with better visual fidelity. It is very relevant to a discussion on graphics and I don't see how any really serious discussion of graphics can ignore this as it is a key factor in why one looks better than the other.
It seems like I can't make any comment about DC without someone assuming I'm attacking it, or misinterpreting what it is all about. I know exactly what it is and isn't.
That is my point about Forza and DC graphics in reverse. Forza has completely different priorities, which should be considered when discussing graphics. Instead, it seems most people are just straight up comparing the two by looks alone and declaring DC winner, which it is on that very, very simple criteria. But it doesn't tell the whole story.
Summer Haze
Banned
My bad if that's the case. But it sounded like you were using the fact that Forza has a more complex simulation as a positive against a game that never strived to have the same.
AbandonedTrolley
Member
Unless you're using a wheel it doesn't make much difference as there is no way to make using a controller feel like 'driving' even with the best simulations going on.
MilkyJoe
Member
In case some have not seen it, Patch 3.0 is out for Project Cars, with a number of graphical enhancements,
Check it out. Reflections in the road are really tidy, now.
https://youtu.be/H_zw7b1hfgU?t=315
Check it out. Reflections in the road are really tidy, now.
https://youtu.be/H_zw7b1hfgU?t=315
fastford58
Member
I'd like you to read the thread title. It is that simple.
Summer Haze
Banned
I know, I addressed both of those things in the reply you just quoted.
No one is attacking you, I know I'm certainly not and I apologise if it's coming across that way. But you can't call DC a shallower experience compared to Forza just because Forza's simulation is more complex. Being deep and complex is not a mandatory requirement for whether or not someone has fun with a racer . Or any game. It's entirely subjective. They're both aiming for a completely different feel and experience, no one game is above or below the other.
But yeah, let's get back to the actual thread topic.
SunhiLegend...where are you bro?
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
Forza looks like trash (especially in the rain) next to DC. Damn.Not that it's a particularly fair comparison (60fps vs 30fps and all), but here's a pretty good comparison of Forza 6, Driveclub and PCars in a range of conditions, views etc. Some of you may recognise who one of the top comments is from lol. No guesses needed as to it's contents
Forza 6 vs. DriveClub vs. Project CARS | Graphics, Rain & Weather Gameplay Comparison (PS4 & Xbox)
But that 60fps is expensive and kudos to turn10 for sticking to their guns and providing one of the best reviewed racing games to date.
Raven77
Member
Okay well what about animation quality and physics? How the environment moves around you, tree's, flags, the cars themselves (do they shift realistically as you take hard turns, do they react to the environment when you hit bumps, etc.).
All of that is not "invisible" and would effect your visual enjoyment of the game. Maybe not as drastically as 60fps but you can no doubt enjoy the visuals of a game running at 10FPS. You likely can't enjoy the GAME or playing the game but this thread is about visuals only.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Polyphony better be working with Drive Club devs on the car sounds...
Got to say you have to wonder what Turn 10 could do if they had the resources the PS4 provides rather than the XO - its always gonna be an unfair comparison. On top of a short dev cycle they are doing a far more competent job than I think some give them credit for.
But they really have to address how cars look on track - its very disjointed and pretty shocking when you see exterior camera shots/footage.
ps3ud0 8)
But they really have to address how cars look on track - its very disjointed and pretty shocking when you see exterior camera shots/footage.
ps3ud0 8)
You're right of course, but then this is a graphics thread. I'm not really sure just how much resources the physics side of things really take up either. It's not like these games are doing real time damage deformation or anything like that. The physics instructions seem far more rudimentary. You look at games like rFactor, iRacing etc, which have far more advanced physics than the sim racers on these consoles, and it's not like they're particularly taxing to run.
I'd also argue that things like volumetric clouds, dynamic weather, dynamic time of day, dynamic global illumination etc, would be things that would be far more taxing on a system than tyre grip simulation and things of that nature.
Having said all that, you have games like ProjectCars and Gran Turismo that do plenty of the above, as well as the advanced physics. So it's not like you have to necessarily sacrifice one or the other. It's just the quality of the implementation that might differ compared to something like Driveclub.
Definitely a few nice changes and additions.
Summer Haze
Banned
They acquired Forza's Lead Audio Designer a while back.
https://www.gtplanet.net/polyphony-digital-hires-previous-forza-audio-lead-for-gran-turismo/
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
But the gameplay in Driveclub is outstanding.
Wax Free Vanilla
Member
banderas.gif
I worry that theres so many things PD have to introduce to GT7 because of all the competition over this and last gen that theres probably gonna be a fair bit missed just because of how many checkboxes they need to tick. Im not saying GT5/6 were that terrible but they really lost their way IMO, the kitchen sink approach just doesn't lead to fun
I can see PD getting there, but not without external assistance either in the form of other Sony developers or utilising companies to do some of the work (like how Turn 10 gets their 3D car models)
EDIT: Man I feel Ive just gone on a tangent in the wrong thread...
ps3ud0 8)
Here, the player car's headlights are making a slight shadow from the Corvette.
There's almost no reflection of the players headlights on the Corvette ahead. I'm so spoiled by Driveclub...
Vicetrailia
Banned
Yeah, the expectations are very high for GT7.
SolidSnakex
Member
As of now they've hired a former Forza audio guy to work on the sound. But they're still hiring for audio, so who knows who they'll pick up. As far as Evolution goes, they have hired the UI designer for DRIVECLUB.
They have been working on their own groundbreaking sound method for over 5 years now, they should be fine.
Utter madness.
That's another excellent pick up then. DC's UI is nice to look at and ultra quick. Hopefully the loading speeds from Driveclub make their way in to GT7.
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
I personally believe GT7 with beat Driveclub at 60fps. PD are wizards. That Lfa gif above is simply amazing and that was on Ps3.
I just watched that and I have to ask ... how is it possible to drive that track at night in that car? It has no headlights, right? Is it all memorization for the dark stretches?
Yeap. He just knew it well enough to know when to turn, slow down etc, even in the pitch black lol.
This is what immediately stood out to me too. I mean, you're beaming headlights from 6 feet away onto glossy paint and there's just no reflection there.
Car's shadows coming from car lights in Forza 6 in night races and that's the only light source is not a lot ( also game is made on more powerful system ) compared to GT6, which has multiple light source, for example : lightning near track that creates more shadows around car ( like in some football game at night )
EDIT : This would do the trick ( but it's not that gif ) :
Where is that GT6 .gif with Lexus ( not that gif from Solid )?
Yep, it just lacks an interesting career mode. =/
drotahorror
Member
I wonder what people expect in a career mode for a racing game? Do you want codemasters style commentary explaining every race and commentating your career path with unskippable dialogue? Need for Speed style cheesiness with corny dialogue and bad cutscenes? I dunno, I really enjoyed the Tours in DC, and the season pass added even more enjoyment.
I think in DC it works fine for the type of game it is.
But people also want somewhat of a growth and ownership experience, myself included. I want to start off in that cheap hatchback, then slowly progress to a sports car and eventually a hypercar. But along the way I want to feel like I earned each car, that I had a choice in which to buy next, and what color it was and its livery. Or have class type races a la Project Cars, so you can just go into F1 or touring right away with race structures and championships.
The worst would be something like GT5's waste of the NASCAR licenses, or the Top Gear one. Where you don't have a structured progression within a discipline at all, just a mish mash of options available without rhyme or reason.
diffusionx
Gold Member
My favorite career mode in a racer is PGR, just because it had so many different challenges and tons of variety. Like, the bikes in PGR4 weren't great but they mixed things enough to just keep it going.
I love Forza Horizon 2 but if the game had nothing but the championships it would be a total slog after a while. The bucket lists, XP boards, roads, etc. all bring some variety to it.
nkarafo
Member
What a strange topic title. I remember before the DC or the PS2 were released how "next-gen" racers were supposed to be 60fps, you know, just like the arcades! Because the main difference between arcade and console racing games during 5th generation was that the arcade ones looked so much smoother at that shiny 60fps frame rate! And now, 15 years later, while playing on machines that are like 1000 times more powerful than the PS2 or something, we are talking about "next-gen" racing games and the 30fps one is supposed to be relevant.
Probably because 30fps works just fine and DC plays great. I have little trouble bouncing from that to PC and back framerate wise.
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