Framerate is performance for me is 60fps smoother yes. Does it change graphics one bit no.
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
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Framerate is performance for me is 60fps smoother yes. Does it change graphics one bit no.
Aceofspades
Banned
Honestly F6 is closer to GT6 graphically than it is to DC.
Sorry, mate, but this is misleading, since you put something like "Grid" or "Dirt" as a single thing, yet the handling varies a lot from each iteration.
On Dirt, for example, the first one is a simcade with very poor physics. Dirt 2 is a simcade with great physics, hence the better gameplay compared to the first one. Dirt 3 is slightly more arcadey than Dirt 2, and Dirt Showdown is full arcade. Dirt Rally, on the other hand, is a full sim.
On Grid, all of them are simcades, but Grid Autosport gets much closer to the sim area, more than Driveclub, in my humble opinion.
Fair enough. So if someone released a game and it looked as close to real life as we've ever seen but it dips constantly to 15fps it would be the champ? Or would you say there is a cut-off like so long as it sticks close to 30fps?
transformer
Member
This is absurd in my opinion. Frame rate has a huge impact in graphics. I don't play screenshots or gifs. For example, I've seen epic GT5/6 screenshots and gifs that look on par with many current gen games but it looks nothing like that when I play due to frame rate and image quality issues that didn't show up in the screenshots or gifs.
This.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Sadly it doesn't appear to hold any weight despite being Forza's primary visual focus.
Everybody Hz.
Take comfort in your friends.
Foutrologue
Banned
Truer words have never been spoken
I guess framerate and tearing is tied to performance and IQ is tied to graphics. It's all a part of graphical output to me but I guess I would be in the minority.
Lol
SolidSnakex
Member
If we're not taking into account fps, everybody knows DC is the better looking game. It's obvious.
The only other game you can compare to FM6 is PCars and since it's a sim, and it drops from 60, it's instantly disqualified in my book. No sim should ever, ever drop frame rate.
This thread is becoming ridiculous.
The only other game you can compare to FM6 is PCars and since it's a sim, and it drops from 60, it's instantly disqualified in my book. No sim should ever, ever drop frame rate.
This thread is becoming ridiculous.
Not GT6, but it is the Lexus
^^^ That's crazy. Is it GT6?
I'm just not a framerate affects the graphics type of person. For example I played tlou at both 60fps and 30fps on ps4. Was it much smoother absolutely, did I see a graphics difference no I didn't.
Sorry, maybe I'm not getting you, but this just seems very wrong. By your rationale, DC would look exactly the same at 60fps because the graphics would be unchanged by Evolution doubling the framerate. How can you justify this?
We might as well just compare static photomode and non in-game shots then.
But would you be fine with a damn near photo-real game at 15fps? Naturally it'll never happen, I'm just curious at this point.
SolidSnakex
Member
They're from GT5.
Thanks. I owned that game and loved it but I never got around to playing 6. Really cool shots though.
Framerate is important and should be considered in our comparisons, but there's nothing really to compare there. Yes, Driveclub is 30fps and Forza 6 is 60fps. That's a boring comparison. Graphics is a very multi-faceted term, so we usually go beyond the obvious matter of framerate.
You just invalidated half of the comparisons in the entire thread, and not in a bad way.Gifs are a terrible way to compare, even though I did that, but it was because I refuse to believe that Forza 6 looks as bad as people are trying to make it. Hell, even last gen games can look on par with the current gen on GIFs:
PGR4
Grid Autosport
NullPointer
Member
Holy shit, I only just realised I'm a whole single page @ 100 posts behind. What happened last night?!?
Maybe not (and I'd suspect FM6 is a lot closer) but the only people who can really judge what is closer would be people who have actually driven the cars. I suspect pCARS may also be a little out in this respect too.
He hangs out in the Driveclub thread now ^_^
I like you. We're going to get along just fine.
Be hard to argue... I'd still be inclined to pick PGR4 though. DR is damn close though, and I've not even progressed that far yet (finished the Mini career bit, now hooning around in a Stratos).Nah, everybody knows that Dirt Rally takes the crown.
With you on that. The tour modes are serviceable and fine, but something a little more career-y would be a lot better. Hell, it was even pretty basic in the PGR games (even though they all did it differently from each other) but would've been great in DC for a sense of real progression other than trophies.
I think he's saying there's a point at which it doesn't make a difference. Not being hyperbolic by comparing something like Cruis'n to current-gen console titles.
Funny thing is, I've heard numerous times that PC sim games tend to overdo the lack of grip in games in order for the "sim = difficult" thing to apply. I obviously don't know, but maybe DC has it more accurate in some aspects than people might think.
Maybe not (and I'd suspect FM6 is a lot closer) but the only people who can really judge what is closer would be people who have actually driven the cars. I suspect pCARS may also be a little out in this respect too.
I have it, haven't played it for eons (maybe 6 months or so after it came out?). I have a G27, I should fire it up again, I bet it's fun as hell. I think I even gamed it a little with a save/car transfer bug so I could get a shit-ton of cars/money (from memory).
You really, really need to. It's the closest thing we'll ever get to PGR5 (it basically is a PGR game), and I have a feeling that even if the PGR franchise gets renewed, it won't be as good as DC.
I've stated in the thread that the closest comparison (taking into effects coming in from early development of the game etc.) is with Horizon 2. At least, it's a much closer comparison with the current FM6 than FM1 is.
I always thought that the project lead on PGR4 had a pretty big role at Evo (Ged Talbot), but in the credits for it he was only listed under "special thanks". Very disappointed... although I can "feel" his influence I guess.
<3
For a graphics thread, I would. But when playing the game, no.
And I think if you only have one console and can't play the games back-to-back, you'd be inclined to think that the game for the console you own looks better because reasons (and not bias).
True (and I've done that comparison before, but with Driveclub instead of GRID to show the problem with tiny gifs), but if we took a single frame of each of those gifs, it would be even worse for GRID Autosport if we weren't very careful with the selection process.
We don't really need all these compromises in order to show what the games look like. There's high-bitrate 1080p footage of both, but the use of gifs is pretty much just to get a general view of the game across in a way that a still image never can. Which is why trying to talk about graphics whilst disregarding framerate is stupid. The framerate is what's making the image move... and everyone here loves demonstrating the graphics with moving images. I'm not sure how we got to the point of claiming that graphics only works to describe a singular image... but this thread is legitimately the first time I've seen the idea being seriously put across.
You have a list of names to go along with that claim, I assume?
I have no doubt about that for the reasons explained a thousand times already here. Unfortunately I don't own a Xbone to compare both games, only a PS4 with DC. And yes, DC looks AMAZING, and this is my first Playstation ever, I was an Xboxer before, since the first one, and I have a ton of complaints towards the Forza franchise, including the sterile look and the lack of grittiness of the series, but being ugly was never a problem (well, maybe with Forza 2, but I skipped that one) here. So i honestly refuse to believe that Forza 6 is an ugly game.
These gifs usually are good to show the game in motion, showing the good stuff while hiding small annoyances like heavy aliasing.
Really odd indeed.
NullPointer
Member
And I fully agree with that 100%, and its something the photo thread will make clear.So i honestly refuse to believe that Forza 6 is an ugly game.
That Forza 6 demo sold me easily, and I thought it looked great on track. Not DriveClub great, but damn good all the same, and a definite improvement over Forza 5.
Basically, I don't *need* Forza to look like DC, and to say it doesn't look as good is no insult to it.
Moral of the story: We need more gifs
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Wrong thread!
Aceofspades
Banned
I didn't judge F6 graphics from those tiny gifs, I watched the comparison video posted and its not even close between DC and F6.
F6 and pCars are more comparable imho, DC in the other hand is totally on another level .
Me, for one. Can't think of any others specifically, but if you're taking offense to what was intended as a generalisation of likely everyone in this thread (or everyone ever) as a demonstration of confirmation bias, I guess you can be included as well
I'm pretty sure quite a big majority of the people conversing here have played the most discussed games.Me, for one. Can't think of any others specifically, but if you're taking offense to what was intended as a generalisation of likely everyone in this thread (or everyone ever) as a demonstration of confirmation bias, I guess you can be included as well
DirgeExtinction
Member
If the comparison video was 60fps for FM6, wouldn't that make DC look weird since it's 30fps?
Not really, for every 2 frames displayed by forza you would have one displayed for driveclub (which would then be duplicated to fit 60 frames). The only "weirdness" caused by doing a video in this manner would be the inherent difference in watching a 60 fps game next to a 30 fps game.
aaronwt
Member
It shouldn't be Next Gen anything. No idea when the next gen systems will be out, but the PS4 and Xbox One are current gen.
cyber_ninja
Member
Exactly. I'd like to see some gt6 and forza 6 comparisons.
transformer
Member
Waste of time IMO. Play them both back to back and it's obvious about two seconds into the race. Weaker hw, lower resolution, frame rate issues and tearing, weaker AA, etc. are very obvious. It's still amazing what was pulled off on PS3 hardware, but it just can't compete with current gen games. I'm looking forward to GT7 as compared to the current racing games. That's the comparison I want to see.
I think most reasonable people would see what a laugh that is about thirty seconds into a race in GT6. GT6 is beautiful, and every bit the game racing enthusiasts hoped for from GT5, but for all the artistic and technical achievements it wrings out of its host hardware, it's very clear it was flawed visually even in previous gen, let alone compared to the refreshingly consistent performance/presentation of current gen.
GT6 is a very easy game to selectively find stunning moments to rationalize its place as a persisting visual gem (and rightly so), but hoo boy, it borders on delusion to think it's comparable in visuals to modern racers when the controller is in-hand. Lest we ignore the screen-door alpha effects, jittery and strangely blocky shadows, frame stuttering, pop-in and screen-tearing that marred an otherwise agonizingly beautiful game.
Mind you, I think its lighting is still something special, but that's one piece of a complex puzzle with a goal of suspending the disbelief at what we're seeing on screen.
Not what I was getting at. People who only own one of the consoles will have a skewed opinion because they're more familiar with one of the games and more likely to show confirmation bias towards it. Just the same as if the two main games here were on the same console but majority only owned one of them.
Having played != owning
Lets do some in focus track/environment shots. Closeups of textures (within a couple feet) and direct gameplay 1080p shots with the two. No DOF, blurry, in motion photomode shots. Just a direct highest shutter speed full image in focus shots that don't hide last gen assets compared to current gen ones.
That would be a good graphics comparison, although F6 would blow GT6 away in that sort of graphics comparison. Just track textures and track-side detail alone is miles ahead on current gen.
Edit** To address that comparison of the F6 car to the DC one in the rain. The car does cast a shadow on the track, the spray at speed hides it. I slowed down and you can see it, once you get moving the spray hides the shadows. Whether it should or not...I don't know, but that's why it looks like that with a high angle camera.
Those appear to be photo mode for both games, and distant shots. So not exactly.
That's not Forza 6. But sure, now lets get up close to those assets and lets go full 1080p from behind the car captures during gameplay.
I mean we can do up close shots like this...
That's what we always see though....that or low res gifs. How about close ups of the manholes on a track, or closeups of the bolts holding down supports track-side. Get in there close, lol.
Get close to stuff...lets see how nice the assets are...not some shot showing things 100's of feet away.
Like this....show off the power wiring and detail of the track-side detail, supports. We could do it real track by real track.
Gifs are a terrible way to compare, even though I did that, but it was because I refuse to believe that Forza 6 looks as bad as people are trying to make it. Hell, even last gen games can look on par with the current gen on GIFs:
PGR4
Grid Autosport
Whilst I agree that GIF's are far from an ideal way to compare, they still provide a tangible insight in to the graphics and general look of these games. The funny thing is, such GIF comparisons actually benefit games with worse IQ, textures, environments, shaders etc, as they make flaws harder to make out. So if anything, games like Forza stand to gain more from a GIF comparison than something like Driveclub. It's why GT looks so damn incredible in GIF form. You can't make out the poor trees, grass, aliasing, IQ issues etc in GIF form. Same situation with Forza 6, and to a lesser extent Driveclub.
Aside from the obvious IQ differences, GT6 is actually surprisingly comparable. I'd be interested to see a similar comparison with Forza 6.
OccamsLightsaber
Regularly boosts GAF member count to cry about 'right wing gaf' - Voter #3923781
How does GT do it? The lighting is so true to real life. It has a quality to it that is a cut above every other racer presented in this thread.
The disappointment would be if GT7 only looked as good as DRIVECLUB. The expectations for a generation GT's visuals are higher than that. This is what they were doing five years ago on hardware that's obviously significantly weaker
http://www.abload.de/img/7o5uyr.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/8utu1m.jpg
That looks so damn good.
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