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[Majanew]

Yeah, exactly. Just do what you wanted to do and then after doing it bring up the game dvr and there is an option to end a clip of varying length. So, for example, say I wanted to show off a lap in forza, I'd complete the lap, bring up game dvr, select end 5 minute clip here, and then it will save a recorded clip of the last five minutes. Unless you are unbelievably slow you should easily be able to capture what you wanted.

Yeah, I've done that. Or attempted to, I should say. It doesn't always work. [Bringing up] DVR will sometimes lag slowly or it will screw up. I tried it multiple times in MCC showing differences in Halo 2 Anni and it fucked up every time. But we're getting way OT here, lol.

Also, I'm talking about starting a video recording and then playing. Like PS4's double tap that let's my recording start right there, not hoping it starts where I first started playing. Bringing up DVR and grabbing the last 5 mins is less painful than trying to start a recording yourself.

 

[btags]

I'm surprised they haven't added forwards recording into Snap. Just double-tap the Xbox button like for normal videos, but then press A or something to start recording, then again to stop.

You can do that by snapping gamedvr and starting a new clip, although it is not very sleek to operate as you then have to switch back to the game to play and then back again to gamedvr to end the clip.

 

[Inf3cted_b3ast]

Yeah, I've done that. Or attempted to, I should say. It doesn't always work. [Bringing up] DVR will sometimes lag slowly or it will screw up. I tried it multiple times in MCC showing differences in Halo 2 Anni and it fucked up every time. But we're getting way OT here, lol.

Hope they make it easier with the new dashboard coming.

 

[Aceofspades]

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/06/05/51-details-about-driveclub-on-ps4/

Those details mentioned in this article is mindboggling.

They might add to our discussion in this thread.

 

[TheAdmiester]

You can do that by snapping gamedvr and starting a new clip, although it is not very sleek to operate as you then have to switch back to the game to play and then back again to gamedvr to end the clip.

Yeah I know, but like you said it feels way more cumbersome than saving the 30 second clip. A way to operate it from the little snap thing where you take screenshots is what I'd prefer.

 

[MaxwellParrish]

I am one of those people that thinks the middle ground is the best area. A dev cycle of 3 years is usually good enough to include some solid improvements in a game while also having a product come out in a timely manner. I wish Turn 10 and PD would go to a three year cycle. It would probably be better for fans of both series (in my opinion of course, I am sure there are those who would disagree).

PD has been basically on a three years cycle since GT2, with the only exception of the long interval between 4 and 5, that was filled by the release of Tourist Trophy and GTPSP, in addition to GTHD and GT5Prologue.
If GT6 will be released in 2016, the 3 years development cycle will be confirmed.

 

[Aceofspades]

PD has been basically on a three years cycle since GT2, with the only exception of the long interval between 4 and 5, that was filled by the release of Tourist Trophy and GTPSP, in addition to GTHD and GT5Prologue.
If GT6 will be released in 2016, the 3 years development cycle will be confirmed.

GT6 was released in 2014!

You mean GT7

 

[Majanew]

GT6 was released in 2014!

You mean GT7

GT6 was released in 2013!

 

[MaxwellParrish]

GT6 was released in 2014!

You mean GT7

That's exactly what I meant, sorry! (By the way GT6 has been released in december 2013, whence 3 years hypothesizing a holiday 2016 release of GT7)

 

[nib95]

And what does that shot took like when the camera is offset to the left and right in motion? Is that vegetation 3d?

I think the leaves/textures rotate so they're always facing you in a more ideal looking manner. You can't notice it whilst racing, but if you slow down to gander or take shots, it becomes apparent. I think more of the racing games are adopting this now. For example GT6 uses it to avoid the horrible looking crossed sprite trees from GT5.

I do that, the same way I do it with every other car, but damn near every corner results in me spinning out with the One:1, or at least powersliding and then me struggling to gain control back. *Shrug*

Evidently you got the version of the game that most people seem to have

 

[btags]

I think the leaves/textures rotate so they're always facing you in a more ideal looking manner. You can't notice it whilst racing, but if you slow down to gander or take shots, it becomes apparent. I think more of the racing games are adopting this now. For example GT6 uses it to avoid the horrible looking crossed sprite trees from GT5.



Evidently you got the version of the game that most people seem to have

So, they are sprites?

 

[TheAdmiester]

So, they are sprites?

Yeah, if they rotate with the user then by definition they are sprites. I would've thought the opposite of what was quoted, as hardware gets more powerful I'd imagine that we're moving away from 2D objects.

 

[nib95]

Yeah, if they rotate with the user then by definition they are sprites. I would've thought the opposite of what was quoted, as hardware gets more powerful I'd imagine that we're moving away from 2D objects.

Pointless waste of resources imo. As long as they mimic the real thing accurately and convincingly, cutting these corners to get there seems a more efficient method. That way they can just put the saved resources elsewhere, especially with a game like DriveClub which has thousands of trees in certain tracks. I think in a few of the Canada tracks there is actually over a million of them, though they are made up of simpler sprites.

 

[Summer Haze]

Pointless waste of resources imo. As long as they mimic the real thing accurately and convincingly, cutting these corners to get there seems a more efficient method. That way they can just put the saved resources elsewhere, especially with a game like DriveClub which has thousands of trees in certain tracks. I think in a few of the Canada tracks there is actually over a million of them, though they are made up of simpler sprites.

Agreed.

 

[TheAdmiester]

As long as they mimic the real thing accurately and convincingly

But that's exactly the point, sprites don't do that.

 

[DD]

The effect is only broken if you look underneath them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXh3An0M_Ko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAnV1DUHMAo

 

[Noobcraft]

The effect is only broken if you look underneath them.

Or around them like in an open world situation. They would look silly if you were allowed to deviate from the track.

 

[VanWinkle]

But that's exactly the point, sprites don't do that.

In a closed circuit racing game, they do. And they look more realistic than anything we can get polygon-based right now.

 

[Gestault]

But that's exactly the point, sprites don't do that.

They really give a great impression in a circuit-based game though. I think they're very effective most of the time. Unless someone's running around saying "everything's geometry" when it's obviously not, I don't think there's any room for criticism. There are always visual shortcuts, and this is a mostly seamless one, unless you have to deal with open world variability.

 

[Niks]

Dat lighting engine
credit to wax free

 

[nib95]

Dat lighting engine
credit to wax free

Yeap. Crazy.

That said, getting photo realism from actual gameplay is far more impressive still. In that sense Driveclub is really the only ever racer, perhaps even the only ever game full stop, that has consistently delivered that. Here's some gameplay screens from Driveclub showcasing some examples of that level of realism, and the sheer extent of diversity within those visuals. Apologies for poor quality Jpeg's.

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

Just unparalleled.

 

[Gestault]

Maybe consider not posting literally 35 images in the same post.

 

[SapientWolf]

This 30fps talk is straight up comical. Dudes in here are trying way too hard.

30fps racing games are pretty comical, yes.

 

[Gestault]

30fps racing games are pretty comical, yes.

There are a lot of truly great racers that run/ran at 30 fps.

 

[Inf3cted_b3ast]

Just unparalleled.

Wow!

 

[adelante]

But that's exactly the point, sprites don't do that.

They do more than your typical 2D sprites. They cast self-shadows and have specular/sheen qualities to exhibit real-life glossy properties that leaves have, even when they're not under rainy conditions. And they do so with respect the global light source in the game; the glossiness isnt baked in. So I assume the sprites contain normal-map info, much like the crowd sprites in Forza 6. So yes, they do mimic real-thing accurately to a certain extent.

 

[pixelbox]

They do more than your typical 2D sprites. They cast self-shadows and have specular/sheen qualities to exhibit real-life glossy properties that leaves have, even when they're not under rainy conditions. And they do so with respect the global light source in the game; the glossiness isnt baked in. So I assume the sprites contain normal-map info, much like the crowd sprites in Forza 6. So yes, they do mimic real-thing accurately to a certain extent.

This member...Spot the fuck on.

 

[adelante]

Just recorded a clip to show what I mean:

Each whole sprite has self-shadows of individual leaves baked in (see the circled areas below, the shadows don't change in relation to the position of the sun), BUT each whole sprite themselves generates their own dynamic shadows in real time that casts on other sprites. For now, using normal-mapped sprites and bunching them up in certain ways to make them look "full" or 3D, is the best, most efficient approach for implementing trackside foliage I think.

I pointed out the same thing in Forza 6 (again, credit to MouldyK for the original clip):

I think it's an improvement over using sprites that were simply created from photos of people because using 3D renders they're also able to retain the normal-map values, so whichever angle the crowd sprites face, they are lit properly by the game's global light source. Using sprites for crowds is less convincing than using them for leaves of course, because with crowds you expect them to animate.

 

[Conduit]

But that's exactly the point, sprites don't do that.

Did you saw crowd in FM6?

EDIT : beaten

Thanks to member above.

 

[nkarafo]

Using sprites for crowds is less convincing than using them for leaves of course, because with crowds you expect them to animate.

Why don't they use sprites with some animation then? Like high quality digitized people, think of old school Mortal Kombat but with higher quality of course.

 

[nib95]

Just recorded a clip to show what I mean:

Each whole sprite has self-shadows of individual leaves baked in (see the circled areas below, the shadows don't change in relation to the position of the sun), BUT each whole sprite themselves generates their own dynamic shadows in real time that casts on other sprites. For now, using normal-mapped sprites and bunching them up in certain ways to make them look "full" or 3D, is the best, most efficient approach for implementing trackside foliage I think.

I pointed out the same thing in Forza 6 (again, credit to MouldyK for the original clip):

I think it's an improvement over using sprites that were simply created from photos of people because using 3D renders they're also able to retain the normal-map values, so whichever angle the crowd sprites face, they are lit properly by the game's global light source. Using sprites for crowds is less convincing than using them for leaves of course, because with crowds you expect them to animate.

Nice and informative post dude. And yea I have to agree on the points made.

 

[Synth]

Did you saw crowd in FM6?

EDIT : beaten

Thanks to member above.

If anyone claimed that the crowd in Forza mimcs the real thing"accurately", then I'm pretty sure "sprites don't do that" would (correctly) be said in response. I'd agree that the leaves are "convincing", but they're certainly not "accurate", closed circuit racer or not.

 

[Lettuce]

The effect is only broken if you look underneath them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXh3An0M_Ko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAnV1DUHMAo

Dunno the constant rotating branches seem to break the effect quiet rapidly

 

[Lettuce]

Whilst theres no doubt DC looks better in stills you got to take into consideration...

It's running at 30fps not 60fps
The physics engine is very basic compared to that of Forza 6
Basic AI routines
10 cars vs 24 cars

Be interesting to see how the new NFS game compares to the visuals of DC, have they said weather that's 60fps??

 

[FunkyDealer]

The trees in DriveClub look wonderful, why care what they look like outside of normal gameplay? All games get funky if you move the camera where you shouldn't.

I agree the crowds in Forza 6 are a big improvement over 5, but I wish they'd use better predefined placements. Last I played I stopped to take a look at them, noticing they were different from 5, and saw several clipping through geometry and standing halfway up steps. (not on the steps, but between them).

 

[Hoo-doo]

Whilst theres no doubt DC looks better in stills you got to take into consideration...

It's running at 30fps not 60fps
The physics engine is very basic compared to that of Forza 6
Basic AI routines
10 cars vs 24 cars

Be interesting to see how the new NFS game compares to the visuals of DC, have they said weather that's 60fps??

Again with this? We all already know what Forza is doing, this is a graphics comparison thread.

 

[Synth]

Again with this? We all already know what Forza is doing, this is a graphics comparison thread.

2 of those 4 things are graphics related (fps, and number of cars).

Physics and AI are things for a different thread tho.

 

[_machine]

Why don't they use sprites with some animation then? Like high quality digitized people, think of old school Mortal Kombat but with higher quality of course.

Massive memory requirements; those sprites are already relatively high resolution and each frame doubles the size in memory (which already at least contains the albedo and normal map textures for each frame). It's doable for sure, but not worth the high memory cost unless you want some few frame animations.

 

[adelante]

Why don't they use sprites with some animation then? Like high quality digitized people, think of old school Mortal Kombat but with higher quality of course.

Not sure to be honest, memory constraints perhaps? As it is, I'm seeing less crowd sprites in Forza 6 compared to the previous game so maybe all these normal-mapped sprites also take up computational resources? However little that may be....

Using 3D rendered models for sprites also can't get around the fact that well, they don't look like real people haha.

Edit: Beaten by _machine above^

If anyone claimed that the crowd in Forza mimcs the real thing"accurately", then I'm pretty sure "sprites don't do that" would (correctly) be said in response. I'd agree that the leaves are "convincing", but they're certainly not "accurate", closed circuit racer or not.

Depends on what degree of accuracy are we talking about. I'd argue that the leaf sprites are accurate when it comes to showing off material properties relative to the world lighting (the sprites may always face you but they're still affected accurately by lighting). Are reflections of cars in ANY racing game accurate? Nope. Until we've come to a point where raytraced lighting/reflections can be easily implemented...or having every single tree and bush made out of polygons... then arguing for absolute accuracy is a moot discussion I think.

 

[Synth]

Depends on what degree of accuracy are we talking about. I'd argue that the leaf sprites are accurate when it comes to showing off material properties relative to the world lighting (the sprites may always face you but they're still affected accurately by lighting). Are reflections of cars in ANY racing game accurate? Nope. Until we've come to a point where raytraced lighting/reflections can be easily implemented...or having every single tree and bush made out of polygons... then arguing for absolute accuracy is a moot discussion I think.

Yea, fair enough. What you say make sense. My use of "accurate" in the previous post was really just an extension of "convincing". So whilst reflections aren't accurate in racing games they remain convincing even under reasonable scrutiny, unlike rotating sprites. But yea, accuracy in regards to visuals is a bit pointless to discuss when you consider the shortcuts taken on literally everything.

 

[bud]

Again with this? We all already know what Forza is doing, this is a graphics comparison thread.

calm down.

 

[Dictator93]

The trees in DriveClub look wonderful, why care what they look like outside of normal gameplay? All games get funky if you move the camera where you shouldn't.

Welcome to a technical thread, it should examine things regardless of whether they make you uneasy for some odd reason.

And pointing out how something works is interesting IMO. Them being 2d camera facing sprites explains quite a bit.

 

[Conduit]

Whilst theres no doubt DC looks better in stills you got to take into consideration...

It's running at 30fps not 60fps
The physics engine is very basic compared to that of Forza 6
Basic AI routines
10 cars vs 24 cars

Be interesting to see how the new NFS game compares to the visuals of DC, have they said weather that's 60fps??

Not again! What, we are so stupid. Damn.

 

[MaLDo]

Looking at some screenshots, why FM6 doesn't use SSR? They use polygon based reflections that are more demanding and then they need to cut corners in reflections distance and number of reflective surfaces.

 

[Hoo-doo]

calm down.

I'm not in any way upset, it's just that we literally had two pages of discussion on this very topic, completely derailing the intent of the thread.

 

[adelante]

Looking at some screenshots, why FM6 doesn't use SSR? They use polygon based reflections that are more demanding and then they need to cut corners in reflections distance and number of reflective surfaces.

Aren't the reflections on roads SSR? Cars themselves use cubemaps, then again every other racing game does the same (DriveClub adds SSR in addition to cubemaps so you reflections of the car's side mirrors, tailights, etc.)

 

[_machine]

Aren't the reflections on roads SSR? Cars themselves use cubemaps, then again every other racing game does the same (DriveClub adds SSR in addition to cubemaps so you reflections of the car's side mirrors, tailights, etc.)

At least for the cars reflected on the road they aren't, because you can see them clearly being culled from reflections at certain points.

 

[MaLDo]

Aren't the reflections on roads SSR? Cars themselves use cubemaps, then again every other racing game does the same (DriveClub adds SSR in addition to cubemaps so you reflections of the car's side mirrors, tailights, etc.)

You can't do this using SSR


http://abload.de/img/dfgh1pv3.jpg

http://www.forzamotorsport.net/Handlers/GetPhoto.ashx?game=fm6&id=122755&full=true

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5796/21375762811_0a3de80aea_o.jpg

 

[TheAdmiester]

At least for the cars reflected on the road they aren't, because you can see them clearly being culled from reflections at certain points.

And they also do things that SSR can't. If I zoomed in on just a car's reflection, it would begin to disappear as the real car is being occluded from the screen.