No, it's what you get for pushing 1080/60 on the X1 and having dynamic TOD and weather.
1X has nothing to do with this at all.
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Next-gen Racing Graphics Face-off | (Next-gen means current-gen)
- Thread starter Gestault
- Start date
1X has nothing to do with this at all.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
No space nut made poor and incorrect excuses for FM's poor foliage by saying GTS also has "many" sacrifices, when in reality the only difference is one having a dynamic lighting system and the other not.
Pretty big difference there.
ethomaz
Banned
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Big enough to result in such bad foliage and other graphical effects.....debatable.
Well yeah, but that's not the point, the point is it uses more resource and that resource has to come from somewhere else.
That somewhere else looks to be the trees lol
No, or we'd see better effects and foliage wouldn't we.
There's not much player control to pick settings but they are dynamic
When playing in Day settings, it actually randomly picks a time of Day every time you race. It's not the same lighting every time you load up a track. Same with weather.
I'm thinking T10 will add options to pick weather/TOD more freely then letting the game randomly pick it for you
I love how people absolutely ragged on Forza 5 & 6 for having baked lighting and said it was due to how low power and rubbish the X1 was.
Now Forza has it and GTS doesn't, it doesn't use much power and doesn't result in much at all really.
Don't you love this place?
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
This. Also, 24-car grids.
Still, having to use 2D bitmap trees in the immediate vicinity of the tracks is embarrassing (no matter if it's Forza or GT). I thought we went past that point in the last generation. Heck, even on the OG Xbox most of the great racing titles had fully modeled trees. Even Forza 1(!) to 4 already had them. Here's a video showcasing the evolution of the Maple Valley track from FM1 to FM4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnhHDNaD7kg
FM1 looked fantastic considering the hardware limitations.
Now it's definitely the resolution that's doing it. Ignore that the resolution is unchanged on the base version, and that sacrifices more... let's not get too logical here.
I only have maybe an hour or two of play-time with Forza 7, but I can say 100% sure that some trees are 3D. I was looking at palms on a few tracks last night watching a replay (they looked really nice). That said, Maple Valley is weirdly billboard-town, and the color saturation/detail scale is really bad on track foliage there. It stands out among other tracks in a bad way.
If I'm any indication, some sort of hitch at some of the third-party file-sharing services (like xboxdvr) has made sharing media more effort than usual, otherwise I could pull something up.
If I'm any indication, some sort of hitch at some of the third-party file-sharing services (like xboxdvr) has made sharing media more effort than usual, otherwise I could pull something up.
I'll be honest, I just think someone artistically did goof on the trees in Maple Valley and tbh, in general.
The remastered track has a weird look to it compared to what I remember.
TheAdmiester
Member
Bear in mind that FM1 was a 30fps title, so it's the Xbox original equivalent of Forza Horizon's standards. It did look great, but obviously it had twice as long to render and wasn't even open world.
Well you have to remember there's so many assets that had to be created. I'm sure if T10 radically reduced the amount of tracks like gts they couple spend more time improving it but a few tracks are expected to not have as much detail as say Dubai
Which by the way Dubai looks extremely better than the reused tracks in FM6
Which by the way Dubai looks extremely better than the reused tracks in FM6
what forza has over gran turismo is that it runs at a higher resolution and that it looks cleaner, but other than that, gran turismo easily is the better looking game, overall.
curious to see how both base versions stack up against each other. we'll find that out next week, i suppose.
curious to see how both base versions stack up against each other. we'll find that out next week, i suppose.
ethomaz
Banned
So it is like GTS.
Difference from GT5... in GT5 you can stay 24 hours in the same place to see the sunrise, the noon, sun falling, night, etc... and the weather changing dynamically... it could rain or not... etc.
Forza 7 has the same dynamic TOD and Weather as GTS. Neither has the dynamic TOD and Weather as GT5.
I love this place because people crushed GTS to having the same dynamic TOD/Weather than Forza 7 while Forza 7 get praised for it dynamic TOD/Weather.
PR words working again and people believed lol
Jaguar Victory
Member
If Forza 7 is considered lacking in graphics then gaming is in an absolutely incredible place. It may have the occasional bad spot but overall the game looks incredible.
I have been playing the pc version for a couple of weeks. It is the best rally game in some time. The tracks are so good. The console version is 30 fps unfortunately but it still looks and plays great. Will likely double dip.
Hyperbole isn't only tolerated in this thread, it's the law. None of these games look like shit.
What do you even mean by this cause I've seen the sky do some weird and wonderful things so far in FM7. Seems fully dynamic to me, especially with the light around sunset.
The only thing which isn't dynamic seems to be the pacing of it, but that seems artistic.
ethomaz
Banned
I mean...
You choose some option to rain and it will thought the race like it happens in GTS.
That is not dynamic... it is nothing being simulated to possible rain or the time passing like in real life.
That is a smart way to use backed weather and TOD.
TheAdmiester
Member
From everything we've heard so far, GTS' time of day and weather (if it even has weather at this point) is entirely static.
Forza 7's rain can start and stop in the middle of a race and in free play you can even set the probability. The time of day isn't on a full 24 hour cycle, but rainy races will progress to slightly later in the day, and some night races will either go evening > night or night > dawn. That's certainly dynamic by my standards.
Incorrect.
GTS is not the same as FM7.
Weather and TOD in FM7 is dynamic and randomly selected in each race. I can race from night to day in FM7. It can rain in the start or end of a race in FM7.
Is there even a video of weather in gts? lmao even if it had weather it would be like FM6 where it doesnt change at all from the reports of it
So no it's not anything like FM7 but nice try bud
It's been a running joke for years in Gran Turismo. Why does it not matter now, in a generation where it probably shouldn't happen at all?
Might I add, many PC sims still have 2D trees. Personally, I couldn't give a damn about trackside trees.
Static pre-baked lighting? Are you sure?
No ToD changes? Are you sure?
No Weather. So far, yep. Rain tyres were an option in the BETA so might be added later (or be a surprise for release, but I doubt it).
Significantly less cars/tracks, although true, have nothing to do with technical proficiency.
If you're concentrating on trees in a racing game, your playing it wrong.
Are you sure it's all dynamic? Sound like it's pre-defined. Full dynamics are not pre-defined and users would be able to access the settings i.e. there is no real-time simulation like in Driveclub, Gran Turismo 5, Gran Turismo 6, Forza Horizon etc...
I very much doubt you'll ever get to tinker with environmental settings in Forza Motorsport 7 because it doesn't seem as complete as they would like you to believe. Just a hunch, more than anything.
It is. When playing a track using the "Day" setting it's not the same lighting every time. It's like the engine picks a random time in the day to have the race on. Same with weather
Having users manually select the changes probably wasn't tested fully which is why they didnt allow it in the options but races are using random times/weather
Being able to manually change conditions doesn't make a engine system dynamic or not. It's just having the user control to change it instead of the game randomly pick condtions which is still dynamic in game
Again i wouldn't be surprised in a later update they give full control in free race for conditions
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Yeah Forza's system is not even truly dynamic as those in games where once can witness the 24hr cycle on the track.
Of course I'm not "concentrating on the trees" whilst I'm racing... but that doesn't mean I won't notice them.
Why do we even bother with anything but the asphalt and rumble strips?
Also, the dictionary definitions for dynamic and static dictate that both Forza's ToD and weather are dynamic. I'm not even sure how this is an argument.
ethomaz
Banned
Because after the PR we expected dynamic weather/tod like pCARs, GT5, GT6, etc where the game simulate the weather/tod all the time using race/track/atmospheric conditions... simulating real life.
Not pre-defined dynamic weather/tod like Forza 7, GTS, etc.
Shifty1897
Member
I'm so confused. What is going on in these Forza 7 shots.
You expectations (and apparent misunderstandings) aren't a reason to reinvent the meaning of words.
Forza's ToD and weather conditions change dynamically throughout the course of a race. You keep lumping Forza Motorsport 7 and Gran Turismo Sport together as though they are equivalent. Unless I'm mistaken, with GTS you're saying you select the ToD prior to beginning the race, and those conditions don't change during the course of the race, right? That's then not dynamic as the conditions during the race would be completely static. This is the same as how Forza Motorsport 6 doesn't have dynamic ToD or weather, despite having night racing and rain.
ethomaz
Banned
In GTS you choose rain in the menu and sometime during the race it happens... I mean when it happens is random but it is predefined... not simulated.
thelastword
Banned
It's a tear now isn't it? Glitched or bugged...OTOH, If you think I'm actually speaking against 60fps, you must be insane.
My point is simple...Lots of sacrifice had to be made on XB1 to get semi-dynamic weather at 1080p 60fps and by extension.....4k at the same refresh on XBONEX....If you think you won't see similar trees, textures or sacrifices on XBONEX...or lower framerate on reflections, mirrors etc...or that all graphical sliders will be positioned right on XBONEX, I think you will be disappointed or mistaken, as that's already proven not to be the case....
Do you actually not know the difference between screen-tearing and misaligned asset tiles? You're talking about this in a performance context, which is why I ask.
Self_Destructive
Member
Uh, you can choose it to rain.. and have the weather completely change to a sunny/partly cloudy day where the rain stops during the race. It's dynamic in that it changes over the course of time. It's not REAL TIME... but that's besides the point. The weather can go through many different phases during the race along with the TOD changing as well.
It can feel quite dynamic while you're racing along the track.. having the entire mood of the race change along with it. It's great. GT Sport doesn't have anything like that.
TheAdmiester
Member
Technically yes, but a "tear" 99% of the time means the entire screen has a tear in it because of a non-VSynced frame. A split in a tree from a sprite bug is not really a "tear". I dunno why I'm bothering explaining this to you since you'll probably just twist it to Forza's detriment, but that's what it is.
If it goes from dry to raining during the course of the race, then that would be dynamic weather. I don't even know what predefined yet random rain is supposed to be. What sort of simulation are you expecting?
Also, this is actually the first I've actually heard of rain actually being in GTS beyond a menu item.
NullPointer
Member
Ain't that the truth.
Even the Forza 7 demo had the weather change during the race. You did play it, didn't you?
https://youtu.be/wS4eYKME_tU?t=191
Apex
Member
Thats just some pictures that swap in the background. Light adapts with a slow transition everytime a picture changes.
Does the sun moves and track or car shadows change orientation in Forza?
TheAdmiester
Member
ethomaz
Banned
Previous Forza games changed ToD during the race too but that was baked not dynamic.
Play GT5, GT6 or pCARs 2 to see what means dynamic.
That doesnt means it is dynamic lol
I believe the term is 'baked', unless there's some new terms i'm not familiar with.
ethomaz
Banned
Yeap baked... iOS spellchecker.
TheAdmiester
Member
The weather can be set on a percentage, so you can leave it up to RNG whether or not it even rains. If that's not dynamic then what is?
hmm, we don't know that yet. Actually we have no evidence of rain being in the game other than rain tires being the beta and other various builds (even up until TGS)
ethomaz
Banned
You have the Rain option in Arcade Mode at Beta... Dirt and Snow too.
Maybe there a confusion here.
Why Eurogamer did say that it is trully dynamic like pCARs or previous GTS? Because there is not weather/tod simulations...it is pre-defined and randomly used during the race.
pCARs 2 has dynamic weather/tod as GT5/GT6... these games has what is called dynamic weather/ToD.
Previous Forza had you racing at afternoon to night with the sun falling... that was not dynamic ToD... it was baked and used during the race.
Not 100% but I'll be online shortly and will keep an eye out for this.
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