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[TheAdmiester]

If they all get the standard RUF upgrade treatment I'll be fine with them.

They're still very average models with no interior, so I'd rather they got properly updated.

Not having interior views on racing games in the 2010s is ridiculous. Codemasters learned the hard way with the backlash from GRID 2, so I don't see how PD haven't put an effort into fixing it in their games.

 

[SolidSnakex]

They're still very average models with no interior, so I'd rather they got properly updated.

Not having interior views on racing games in the 2010s is ridiculous. Codemasters learned the hard way with the backlash from GRID 2, so I don't see how PD haven't put an effort into fixing it in their games.

There are literally hundreds of standard cars. So it's not about effort as much as it's about time. They want to update them all to premium, but there are so many of them to do on top of also doing brand new cars.

 

[Noobcraft]

There are literally hundreds of standard cars. So it's not about effort as much as it's about time. They want to update them all to premium, but there are so many of them to do on top of also doing brand new cars.

I don't know how car modeling goes for games, but I assume they didn't just model the cars to a specific poly budget then stop. It makes more sense to me for them to make a super high quality model first, then downgrade it to match the hardware budget. Either way I'd rather they left standard models out of GT7 if they can't come up with something better. Some of the standard cars look hilariously bad in GT5.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

For all we know, PD may just put out GT7rologue.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I don't know how car modeling goes for games, but I assume they didn't just model the cars to a specific poly budget then stop. It makes more sense to me for them to make a super high quality model first, then downgrade it to match the hardware budget. Either way I'd rather they left standard models out of GT7 if they can't come up with something better. Some of the standard cars look hilariously bad in GT5.

The premium cars are modeled at an extremely high level and then scaled down for the PS3. Those cars are simply modeled completely differently from the way they were doing things with the PSone and PS2. While the PSone and PS2 models were basically a single shell of each car, now they model every part of the car individually.

 

[bananafactory]

Yikes at that aliasing in the PCars shots above. Is the PS4 version also like that?

 

[Noobcraft]

Yikes at that aliasing in the PCars shots above. Is the PS4 version also like that?

Not nearly as bad but the AA solution there has *other* side effects.

 

[le-seb]

For all we know, PD may just put out GT7rologue.

I know he said a lot of things that never materialized in the past, but hasn't Yamauchi said last year that there wouldn't be any prologue version for GT7?

 

[DirgeExtinction]

I know he said a lot of things that never materialized in the past, but hasn't Yamauchi said there wouldn't be any prologue version for GT7?

No idea, I don't really follow anything he says, lol

Though, a Prologue would help hold people over until the real thing releases.

 

[bananafactory]

Not nearly as bad but the AA solution there has *other* side effects.

Such as?

Disappointing. Would like to get it on my PC but not sure if it'll run decently.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Such as?

Disappointing. Would like to get it on my PC but not sure if it'll run decently.

Ghosting.

 

[TEH-CJ]

Such as?

Disappointing. Would like to get it on my PC but not sure if it'll run decently.

Ghosting. But to be honest I can't even notice it and does not detract from the experience at all. Infact I would say the IQ is flawless on the PS4. The DS4 controls however are terrible. The guys at SMS...its not that hard to counter steer a car going into a drift or side steps under acceleration in real life. Its near impossible to do so in the game. Not sure if its a flaw with the physics or the controls.

 

[TEH-CJ]

Let's not forget about dat tessellation goodness putting DC/PC/FM models to shame.

Jesus christ. GT7 is going to blow minds.

 

[bananafactory]

Ghosting. But to be honest I can't even notice it and does not detract from the experience at all. Infact I would say the IQ is flawless on the PS4. The DS4 controls however are terrible. The guys at SMS...its not that hard to counter steer a car going into a drift or side steps under acceleration in real life. Its near impossible to do so in the game. Not sure if its a flaw with the physics or the controls.

Ah, damn. Sucks to hear about DS4. I have a T100 wheel/pedal set I bought for DC, but it's awkward to set up in my living room so unless I'm playing at my computer desk I usually just play with a pad.

Good to hear about the solid IQ, though. I'll probably grab the game within the next month.

 

[Windom Earle]

Ok, here are some Project Cars shots. Nothing fancy, just a few replay and gameplay shots from online races I did today. F1 race in the fog was crazy though.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Damn, that fog looks nice. I'm not sure if DC has it, but if it doesn't...it should!

 

[Ame]

There are literally hundreds of standard cars. So it's not about effort as much as it's about time. They want to update them all to premium, but there are so many of them to do on top of also doing brand new cars.

This is understandable, but I always thought instead having 1200 cars, which is what GT6 had. Why not just have 300-400 cars that are all premium models. More than half of those 1200 cars I never even touched. If it didn't have an interior I didn't want to drive it, with the exception of a few cars.

It still boggles my mind that this was never a premium model.

 

[le-seb]

Damn, that fog looks nice. I'm not sure if DC has it, but if it doesn't...it should!

There can be some light mist in Driveclub, but no thick fog on the tracks.

 

[Shaneus]

Yikes at that aliasing in the PCars shots above. Is the PS4 version also like that?

Part of that is possibly partially due to it being a 900p image upscaled to 1080p. I wonder if it looks better in native res.

 

[benzy]

This is understandable, but I always thought instead having 1200 cars, which is what GT6 had. Why not just have 300-400 cars that are all premium models. More than half of those 1200 cars I never even touched. If it didn't have an interior I didn't want to drive it, with the exception of a few cars.

It still boggles my mind that this was never a premium model.

There are currently over 400 cars that are premium. For GT7 I would assume somewhere around 5-600 premiums if PD's output is the same. A lot of people still find the standards fun to drive even if some of them don't look great.

 

[SolidSnakex]

This is understandable, but I always thought instead having 1200 cars, which is what GT6 had. Why not just have 300-400 cars that are all premium models.

It's very possible for them to do that. But one problem is that there are a lot of people that don't even care about the cockpit view. For example, GT Academy contestants only really use the bumper cam because they want as much view of the road as possible. And many of the cars that some like are still standard. So they simply have to figure out what's the best route. Drop them for consistency purposes or keep them because there are those that enjoy them. Although they could just give an option right on boot up to turn standard cars on or off. If they're off then they don't appear in races or in shops. That way people that still like them can enjoy them while those that don't like how they look can easily avoid them.

The last time Kaz commented on them was in June of 2014, and he did say that standards would return. But it seems like things have started to change since then. They've recently hired a former Forza audio lead to help with the engine sounds and they hired the UI designer for DRIVECLUB to help with the UI. Two hires that are meant to directly address criticized areas of GT. So they may address standards as well. Whether that be removing them, giving the option to turn them off or finally biting the bullet and doing outsourcing. It seems like they're trying to tackle issues that people have had with the series head on with GT7.

 

[Flightwave]

This is understandable, but I always thought instead having 1200 cars, which is what GT6 had. Why not just have 300-400 cars that are all premium models. More than half of those 1200 cars I never even touched. If it didn't have an interior I didn't want to drive it, with the exception of a few cars.

Yeah I agree, it makes sense to just drop standards for GT7 altogether and focus on modelling the more popular standard cars in premium quality. Having a smaller, more visually consistent selection of cars is way better than having 30 different PS2 quality variants of the Mazda MX-5 or Nissan Skyline to choose from IMO.

 

[amar212]

Sweet Jesus.

I wonder how they'll improve reflections in realtime and offline multi-second render scenarios. Could we see some ray-tracing implementation, in smaller photo-shoot locations at least?

For GT5: Prologue "prerace garage" sequences PD demonstrated unique pseudo ray-tracing HDR. Those sequences were also rendered in full 1080p@60 fps.

GT5: Prologue remains PD's absolute masterpiece from techical standpoint. In order to maximise CPU/GPU performance and balance RAM usage, both GT5 and GT6 never matched GT5's IQ, modelling details in-game and overall performance. Of course, we got other things such as procedural damage, dynamic skidmarks, volumetric smoke, variable weather, humidity engine, variable TOD, alphas, particle lightning, and so on, and so on and so on, and so on...

But GT5 was really a pinnacle of PD's mastery back in 2009.

 

[TheAdmiester]

GT5: Prologue remains PD's absolute masterpiece from techical standpoint. In order to maximise CPU/GPU performance and balance RAM usage, both GT5 and GT6 never matched GT5's IQ, modelling details in-game and overall performance. Of course, we got other things such as procedural damage, dynamic skidmarks, volumetric smoke, variable weather, humidity engine, variable TOD, alphas, particle lightning, and so on, and so on and so on, and so on...

Did we lose the procedural damage with GT6, by the way? The only damage now is scratches and "bent metal" looking bumpmaps, I never see any actual deformation or parts detaching.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Damn, that fog looks nice. I'm not sure if DC has it, but if it doesn't...it should!

DC doesn't have fog like that. But DC has low hanging clouds. This is probably the closed you'll get to a similar thing:
https://youtu.be/6_IxCFY52XM?t=2m31s

Go to 2:31

 

[DirgeExtinction]

DC doesn't have fog like that. But DC has low hanging clouds. This is probably the closed you'll get to a similar thing:
https://youtu.be/6_IxCFY52XM?t=2m31s

Go to 2:31

Thanks.

I mean, I have the game, though I haven't played it in a while. Full blown fog would be great(and terrifying).

 

[amar212]

Did we lose the procedural damage with GT6, by the way? The only damage now is scratches and "bent metal" looking bumpmaps, I never see any actual deformation or parts detaching.

We lost it with one of the early GT5 updates.

Marketing teams went insane with pressure of SCE community managers who couldn't cope with flood of stupid pictures that were mocking damage as it was in vanilla game. The pressure went over to PD and they simply turned off all procedural damage effects.

It has to be said how it would probably happen this way or another in order to meet the goals for performance stabilisation that were met in 2011. Many interesting features were either turned-off or tonned down during GT5 life.

Thank God for original release discs.

 

[Noobcraft]

^^ GT5's damage model wasn't that good though. It seemingly randomly warped geometry in ways that didn't make sense. I also recall that the photomode restricted your ability to take screenshots of certain makes/models with damage which was pretty frustrating.

 

[chromatic9]

But GT5 was really a pinnacle of PD's mastery back in 2009.

Yes it was. Although I imported it in DEC 2007 and the EU was around April 2008.

I don't remember anything of note happen 2009ish except some tyre changes perhaps late 2008. 2009 Forza 3 came out and of course Gt5 in late 2010.

Anyway, GT5P great image quality. Was sad about GT5.

 

[Mohonky]

There are literally hundreds of standard cars. So it's not about effort as much as it's about time. They want to update them all to premium, but there are so many of them to do on top of also doing brand new cars.

I'm sure I recall them saying they weren't convinced about putting crash modelling into GT because they don't believe in doing things half way, they wanted it to ne perfect or not do it at all.

Everything about GT is half way though; previous gen assets, some cars have interiors, some dont, some have damage, some dont. Everything about GT is half a game done.

It's not the consumers or anyone elses fault they don't have 'time' to get shit done, that's why you have project managers to allocate resources and ensure targets are achievable and met. How about they focus on what they can achieve and complete a cohesive package rather than just slap together a product of 'heres what we managed to get finished heres some other shit we couldn't but its there anyway'

 

[shandy706]

Some textures comparison between GT6/FM5 on Mount Panorama Circuit (new to both series).

I'm going to point out you're being a bit disingenuous here. I went just now and took shots of some of the signs on the track. If you are near the signs when taking shots most aren't that lo-res. They may be if you zoom in from far away while their LOD is lower or you pick certain signs. Your shots aren't representative of the average. There are some super crisp signs all over the place, even if not every one is. I had to actively look for the signs as bad as the ones you posted.

Your shot

My shots

Your Shot

My Shots

 

[Baroquemantic]

Anyone have some comparison pictures of the smoke/dirt/waterspray effects in all these games. I've never played GT6, but I do have GT5, and I still think it has the best looking smoke and dirt kick up. pCARS has the best looking water spray though.

 

[Noobcraft]

Anyone have some comparison pictures of the smoke/dirt/waterspray effects in all these games. I've never played GT6, but I do have GT5, and I still think it has the best looking smoke and dirt kick up. pCARS has the best looking water spray though.

I'd give GT5 the smoke, but it also has the transparency issue that ruins the IQ. Not sure if they fixed that in GT6.

 

[Three]

I'm going to point out you're being a bit disingenuous here. I went just now and took shots of some of the signs on the track.

Good god the witchhunt against shamepain doesn't stop. He's been very honest and has praised every game for the things they get right. There was nothing disingenous about his posts. The only thing you are seeing is the jpeg compression of his hosted images. If anyone has been slightly disingenuous it's you and your zoomed in images.

 

[Windom Earle]

Anyone have some comparison pictures of the smoke/dirt/waterspray effects in all these games. I've never played GT6, but I do have GT5, and I still think it has the best looking smoke and dirt kick up. pCARS has the best looking water spray though.

I kinda like what Project Cars is doing with particles, check this shot I posted above:

Drive Club doesn't have the best spray effect, but still takes the weather effects crown easily IMO.

 

[SolidSnakex]

It's not the consumers or anyone elses fault they don't have 'time' to get shit done, that's why you have project managers to allocate resources and ensure targets are achievable and met. How about they focus on what they can achieve and complete a cohesive package rather than just slap together a product of 'heres what we managed to get finished heres some other shit we couldn't but its there anyway'

I never said that it was anyone elses fault. It's a choice that tehy decided to make as they determined that many would rather have those cars, even in their standard form, than not. Maybe that'llchange maybe it won't.

I'd give GT5 the smoke, but it also has the transparency issue that ruins the IQ. Not sure if they fixed that in GT6.

They toned the smoke down in GT6, so it doesn't look as good as GT5's but it also doesn't cause heavy pixelation when interacting with the environment or cars like in GT5. Hopefully we'll see an upgraded version of GT5's smoke in GT7. The PS3 just wasn't good when it came to handling alpha effects.

 

[Three]

I kinda like what Project Cars is doing with particles, check this shot I posted above:



Drive Club doesn't have the best spray effect, but still takes the weather effects crown easily IMO.

What I like about PCars are the small pebbles on the track that react realistically as you drive by. Driveclub also had it with the petals and leaves on the ground.

 

[shandy706]

Good god the witchhunt against shamepain doesn't stop. He's been very honest and has praised every game for the things they get right. There was nothing disingenous about his posts. The only thing you are seeing is the jpeg compression of his hosted images. If anyone has been slightly disingenuous it's you and your zoomed in images.

LOL, jpg compression isn't changing his 1080p shots into pixelated graphic edges.

Also, my zoomed in shots make me disingenuous? So his zoomed in shots aren't?

You sound like you're just picking sides rather than being honest. He's 100% right about tesselation and lighting in GT5/6. He did however, post a couple bad shots that aren't what the average sign along the track looks like.

I'm pointing that out, don't make me take 20 shots of different signs. Do you have Forza 5? Why don't you take some shots Three? Come back and let me know what you think after you do.

I posted game-play shots, and pre-supersampled shots that clearly show what is there including my camera settings. If I go down the track there are 50 signs that are higher res than the one shot of a couple signs he took a shot of.

He may come back and agree that on average the signs are in fact better looking than those examples.

Edit** Let me point one more obvious thing you should have thought of. If my shots are "zoomed in" more than his (how would you even know)...then why would they look better? That makes ZERO sense....right. In that case, they should look MUCH worse.

 

[icecold1983]

the god rays in pcars look ridiculous and awful

 

[DD]

Driveclub also had it with the petals and leaves on the ground.

Yep, very nicely!

 

[Shin-Ra]

For GT5: Prologue "prerace garage" sequences PD demonstrated unique pseudo ray-tracing HDR. Those sequences were also rendered in full 1080p@60 fps.

I remember the bluish 'HDR' bloom lighting in the racetrack garage but nothing out of the ordinary reflection-wise.

 

[Niks]

Is it just me or are track proportions kinda off in this shot? Nurb is not that wide?

 

[Windom Earle]

Is it just me or are track proportions kinda off in this shot? Nurb is not that wide?

Now that you mention it, it looks strange in this shot. Seemed pretty much on point while driving though.

 

[NullPointer]

Everything about GT is half way though; previous gen assets, some cars have interiors, some dont, some have damage, some dont. Everything about GT is half a game done.

Which is exactly why I think Forza 5 got a bit too much shit for deciding to ditch their previous gen stuff and establish a new quality baseline moving forward. That meant fewer cars and tracks, but it also meant a consistently high quality of assets across the board.

They took some hits from that choice but I think it puts them in a better position moving forward.

 

[benzy]

I'd give GT5 the smoke, but it also has the transparency issue that ruins the IQ. Not sure if they fixed that in GT6.

The low-res alpha particles were fixed for the most part in GT6.

GT5
http://abload.de/img/nrburgringnordschleifswz96.jpg

GT6
http://abload.de/img/nrburgringnordschleifk7a3s.jpg

 

[etta]

Which is exactly why I think Forza 5 got a bit too much shit for deciding to ditch their previous gen stuff and establish a new quality baseline moving forward. That meant fewer cars and tracks, but it also meant a consistently high quality of assets across the board.

They took some hits from that choice but I think it puts them in a better position moving forward.

I concur. DriveClub and Forza games feel finished, GT and PCars don't (the lack of popular cars in PCars like the 458)

 

[DD]

So, what are the opinions about Pcars on the PS4? Is it good?

 

[Afrikan]

Thanks.

I mean, I have the game, though I haven't played it in a while. Full blown fog would be great(and terrifying).

I swear the India track has a setting where there is dense thick yellow fog. No rain. But just fog.

Maybe I'm remembering wrong...haven't played in that setting in a while.

If I come across it again, I'll save it.

 

[benzy]

I swear the India track has a setting where there is dense thick yellow fog. No rain. But just fog.

Maybe I'm remembering wrong...haven't played in that setting in a while.

If I come across it again, I'll save it.

I know what you're talking about. I don't think that was fog, just low volumetric clouds passing by the track. It happens on the high altitude roads, seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZsbXhcIC1I&t=0m08s

 

[le-seb]

I swear the India track has a setting where there is dense thick yellow fog. No rain. But just fog.

These were dust clouds, maybe?
Or what benzy said.