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[Shaneus]

There are 'lots' of motionm blur implementations since PG4 which are technically more accurate probably - idtech6, UE4 games, CryEngine, Ratchet and Clank...

Then again, I have not seen PG4 in person in ages... or a direct feed video. Are there any great high quality PG4 videos out there?

This one seems pretty good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7XWwK8UjGk

Only watched on my work PC though, so it might not be. But the wheel arch camera still looks fantastic, motion blur on-point.

Nope nothing really known about it, I notice this little bit of info which I thought was a nice touch from Codemasters in keeping the name

I didn't realise they'd even stayed in the same physical studio. That gives me even more hope that whatever they're working on will be awesome as shit. I was just expecting them to assist on the main CM team working on a new title.

 

[Grassy]

Just a brief correction - the 2010 one (GT5) was 1280x1080. GT6 was 1440x1080 and as a result ran even worse at times. I always think of this as the epitome of PD's missteps.

"Our game has severe performance issues at 1280x1080. What do we do?"
"MORE PIXELS"

Ahh true, I got them mixed-up. I was referring to GT6 which was of course released in 2013.

I mean I give Polyphony some credit for trying to push the hardware, but the performance is abysmal for a racing game. GT5 drops to under 30fps at times in rain, and GT6 wasn't far behind either. Not much of a "fully dynamic experience".
Digital Foundry GT5
Digital Foundry GT6

 

[Noobcraft]

Ahh true, I got them mixed-up. I was referring to GT6 which was of course released in 2013.

I mean I give Polyphony some credit for trying to push the hardware, but the performance is abysmal for a racing game. GT5 drops to under 30fps at times in rain, and GT6 wasn't far behind either. Not much of a "fully dynamic experience".
Digital Foundry GT5
Digital Foundry GT6

[✓] Dynamic weather
[✓] Dynamic time of day
[✓] Dynamic framerate

Certainly a fully dynamic experience.

 

[l2ounD]

A part of their performance cost had to be the particle system being dynamically lit

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

A part of their performance cost had to be the particle system being dynamically lit

They certainly did some bonkers things with the PS3, quite how the squeezed it as hard as they did I'll never know. But they did so at a cost of a solid frame rate and other refinements unfortunately. I remember the tearing in GT5 vividly!

 

[MrNineties]

I want to love Gt Sport but outside the car models the trackside trees, bushes, etc just look like total crap compared to what I've been seeing in 7. Am I offside?

 

[KORNdoggy]

I want to love Gt Sport but outside the car models the trackside trees, bushes, etc just look like total crap compared to what I've been seeing in 7. Am I offside?

i can't believe this is still a thing. i remember people complaining about trees last gen lol

anyway, have we even seen clear shots of trees in forza 7 yet? forza 6 trees were hardly anything impressive but maybe they've started using speedtree or something that i've not seen yet?

 

[JlNX]

i can't believe this is still a thing. i remember people complaining about trees last gen lol

anyway, have we even seen clear shots of trees in forza 7 yet? forza 6 trees were hardly anything impressive but maybe they've started using speedtree or something that i've not seen yet?

 

[Stillmatic]

I want to love Gt Sport but outside the car models the trackside trees, bushes, etc just look like total crap compared to what I've been seeing in 7. Am I offside?

Trees are shit in every sim racer. GTSports are among the better, maybe even the best at the moment. Which is why I find it funny people keep singling out GTS trees.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Lol, I disagree with you, but I'll leave it there....

In any case, if you compare the two pics. The real pic I posted is under sunny conditions in Dubai. I don't know if you've ever been in a tunnel during the day vs the night, especially those with sunshafts, there's no way it's that dark in sunny conditions during the day in Dubai, that's well nigh impossible if we have to be accurate here...

The real pic looks like daytime in a tunnel, whilst the forza pic looks like nighttime, when they should both be daytime, it doesn't look accurate to me...and the only thing that suggests that these are sunny conditions inside of the tunnel, boils back to how you began the race on the outside, and when you see the shafts depicting the outside in F7.....Which I maintain is not accurate relative to lighting intensity in such conditions....that's why it's so jarring to me..

Also, If that is sand protruding from the shafts, where are the particles on the track inside the tunnel?...Again, if you are familiar with how sand falls from a shaft, it does not suspend in the air, neither does it appear so floaty in the air...but that's my take... carry on...

That's the most random claim of expertise I've encountered here yet

 

[Grassy]

Trees are shit in every sim racer. GTSports are among the better, maybe even the best at the moment. Which is why I find it funny people keep singling out GTS trees.

Then show us a good example of GT Sport's trees. What I've seen in the beta thread is nothing to write home about.

 

[Noobcraft]

That's the most random claim of expertise I've encountered here yet

I don't know how much the rest of you know about sandy shafts (I'm an expert), but lighting and not suspending in the air are huge parts of it.

 

[eso76]

holy shnauzers

 

[Mascot]

I don't know how much the rest of you know about sandy shafts (I'm an expert)

Sounds painful.

 

[MilkyJoe]

A part of their performance cost had to be the particle system being dynamically lit

Jeepers

So what happened to GT Sport then?

 

[Gestault]

Jeepers

So what happened to GT Sport then?

We haven't gotten an announcement that there'll be rain in GTS, even though it's definitely possible. Considering how commonly GT6's framerate danced around the 30s and 40s in rainy/dusty conditions, PD knows from experience how much of a balancing act it can be. To anyone particularly sensitive to framerate, some race configurations became almost unplayable for basically the whole PS3 era in GT.

And in-game, dramatically in GT5 though improved in GT6, the alpha effect resolution broke almost any scene they were visible in. Which was frustrating, because it didn't actually look good and caused gameplay issues.

The rain and particle performance, even in its improved state in fully patched GT6, was a near-constant issue.

They've got a simplified hardware architecture and all that experience this time around. If/when they decide to push back into rain effects, you can bet they'll know what to avoid. Other racing series have had dynamic lighting on particle systems for years, so that won't be a challenge for them.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

A part of their performance cost had to be the particle system being dynamically lit

The thing about GT Sport and GT games of the near past is Polyphony seems very deliberate in the footage they release. I always see this replay mode stuff from angles you'll never ever get to play from. This can look amazing but what's the point when it's essentially just a video? Looks great, but not indicative of what you'll experience playing the game.

 

[Sebmugi]

Then show us a good example of GT Sport's trees. What I've seen in the beta thread is nothing to write home about.

On the nürb it has many trees in 3D in GT sport and the foliage is really not bad ..
shoot from the beta

 

[sems4arsenal]

The trees are more than fine in GTSport. It's the god awful shadow/lod pop in of them that's horrible.

 

[Risk Breaker]

The thing about GT Sport and GT games of the near past is Polyphony seems very deliberate in the footage they release. I always see this replay mode stuff from angles you'll never ever get to play from. This can look amazing but what's the point when it's essentially just a video? Looks great, but not indicative of what you'll experience playing the game.

I'm fairly certain those images were not released by PD but taken/recorded by players.

A part of their performance cost had to be the particle system being dynamically lit

Part of it is that, and being really ambitious (huge and awesome wet/smoke effects). The other part is the PS3 just being bad at transparencies.

 

[thelastword]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1hNx7zeNBk

I'll leave this here, don't know why AC doesn't get a PRO patch though...

 

[Grassy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1hNx7zeNBk

I'll leave this here, don't know why AC doesn't get a PRO patch though...

Once again, the GT2 RS is turbocharged and the GT3 RS is naturally-aspirated so it's not a great sound comparison. It sounds like the volume is kind of muted for the Forza 7 sound test too.

Here's how the previous generation GT3 RS sounds in Forza 6, unsurprisingly it sounds a lot better - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UnrQmYWYsc

Edit: Graphics-wise I think AC looks great, especially if you can run it at 4K/60fps on PC.

 

[fresquito]

Trees are shit in every sim racer.

I think PC2 has pretty good trees. They have seasonal variations too.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DVW3o38-NsM

 

[Stillmatic]

Then show us a good example of GT Sport's trees. What I've seen in the beta thread is nothing to write home about.

These are from a batch of screens I already had of the Nurb:

But yeah, I wasn't writing home about them, just pointing out that trees in racing sims have historically been shit, and these are among the better looking for a sim. Far from amazing, but nothing currently available looks as good IMO.

I think PC2 has pretty good trees. They have seasonal variations too.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DVW3o38-NsM

Yeah they look good to me also, pretty much inline with GTS.

 

[Sebmugi]

Patch 1.07 partly solves the LOD problems of shadows in trees

It will be necessary to wait for the free camera of the photo mode to annicate in detail these trees ^^

 

[darkinstinct]

Also, If that is sand protruding from the shafts, where are the particles on the track inside the tunnel?...Again, if you are familiar with how sand falls from a shaft, it does not suspend in the air, neither does it appear so floaty in the air...but that's my take... carry on...

Oh boy, does real life have you by the balls:

 

[Dictator93]

And in-game, dramatically in GT5 though improved in GT6, the alpha effect resolution broke almost any scene they were visible in. Which was frustrating, because it didn't actually look good and caused gameplay issues.
.

Not to disappoint, but footage I have seen from GTsport (or whatever it is called) seems to also have quarter / lower resolution alpha. I was able to see the haloed blockiness around cars when they were silhouetted by particles.

Anyone have any good native resolution footage of GTsport to show what i mean?

 

[Dictator93]

Not to disappoint, but footage I have seen from GTsport (or whatever it is called) seems to also have quarter / lower resolution alpha. I was able to see the haloed blockiness around cars when they were silhouetted by particles.

Anyone have any good native resolution footage of GTsport to show what i mean?

Found some footage of (what is presumably) lower resolution alpha:
https://fat.gfycat.com/OddParallelCero.webm

If it is not that, and some sort of depth of field instability, then my bad.

edit: most likely not a depth of field issue because you can see the quarter res pixel snapping even before the car / focal point hits the clip range of the depth of field

 

[Head.spawn]

Patch 1.07 partly solves the LOD problems of shadows in trees

It will be necessary to wait for the free camera of the photo mode to annicate in detail these trees ^^

Is this game checkerboard or something? That tree looks like it has a bad rash.

 

[BigLee74]

Edit: Graphics-wise I think AC looks great, especially if you can run it at 4K/60fps on PC.

Stop. You're not playing properly. TheLastWord has been on a solitary mission to belittle forza (all versions) at every opportunity for as long as he has been able to type. His recent cringe-worthy posts include critiques on falling sand effects, and a great unrelated drive-by post of a comparison video of two different cars sounding, well, different.

P.s. Don't ever stop, TLW. I find you very very very entertaining. I don't post much in this forum, but you tickle me in all the right places.

 

[Sebmugi]

Is this game checkerboard or something? That tree looks like it has a bad rash.

No, it's just a capture in play in 1080p PNG .. I have the impression that it is cleaner in play

edit: most likely not a depth of field issue because you can see the quarter res pixel snapping even before the car / focal point hits the clip range of the depth of field

Yes there is still effect between smoke and the rest, car / environment :/

 

[thelastword]

Once again, the GT2 RS is turbocharged and the GT3 RS is naturally-aspirated so it's not a great sound comparison. It sounds like the volume is kind of muted for the Forza 7 sound test too.

Here's how the previous generation GT3 RS sounds in Forza 6, unsurprisingly it sounds a lot better - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UnrQmYWYsc

Edit: Graphics-wise I think AC looks great, especially if you can run it at 4K/60fps on PC.

The vid I posted, I was more interested to see what persons thought of the graphics....I mean I never thought AC was that great looking on vanilla consoles, but I always thought if they could patch it to ultra settings on the PRO, it has the potential to look pretty slick...Yet here, more than anything, I was observing the way the strength of the lighting between the two games.....and AC looks pretty impressive. I mean people can argue sound, though some people prefer more boombastic sounds in their racers even though it's not always realistic, physics is another aspect people can touch, though that part is not exactly evident or can be derived by looking at a video per-se..

Oh boy, does real life have you by the balls:

What exactly is this pic, it's looks heavily cropped...I don't know what you're trying to depict here tbh, but this looks like dust more than sand...A dust plume raised from the dirty floor, so it's ascending...As I asked before, If that is sand in the F7 pic, why is it there no sand on the asphalt below...Also dust will suspend in the air longer because it is lighter...Sand will descend much faster than a plume of dust..

In any case, if this is sand, it is very unconvincing and does not show the true characteristics. To me the effect here (F7) looks derived from a light source more than anything.. If you look through the tunnel, it's pretty much uniform all the way through and suspends in the air just the same...

Stop. You're not playing properly. TheLastWord has been on a solitary mission to belittle forza (all versions) at every opportunity for as long as he has been able to type. His recent cringe-worthy posts include critiques on falling sand effects, and a great unrelated drive-by post of a comparison video of two different cars sounding, well, different.

P.s. Don't ever stop, TLW. I find you very very very entertaining. I don't post much in this forum, but you tickle me in all the right places.

Last I checked this was not a battle between me and you, but carry on with your wonderful on-subject contributions. This thread is about comparisons and tech. I posted a comparison between F7 and AC, and I have expressed my views on what I think of the graphics of many different racers in this thread overtime, not just Forza. I just posted a vid and said "I'll just leave this here" but you have deduced it's something against Forza, why don't you post vids that shows the strengths of Forza and enlighten us as to it's strengths instead of going off on this tirade....

 

[Risk Breaker]

Not to disappoint, but footage I have seen from GTsport (or whatever it is called) seems to also have quarter / lower resolution alpha. I was able to see the haloed blockiness around cars when they were silhouetted by particles.

Anyone have any good native resolution footage of GTsport to show what i mean?

I'm pretty sure most 60 FPS console games that use alpha effects notably have them run at lower res. It's just normal optimization.

 

[Sebmugi]

I would take another I have not had too much time ..

 

[MaLDo]

What exactly is this pic, it's looks heavily cropped...I don't know what you're trying to depict here tbh, but this looks like dust more than sand...A dust plume raised from the dirty floor, so it's ascending...As I asked before, If that is sand in the F7 pic, why is it there no sand on the asphalt below...Also dust will suspend in the air longer because it is lighter...Sand will descend much faster than a plume of dust..

In any case, if this is sand, it is very unconvincing and does not show the true characteristics. To me the effect here looks derived from a light source more than anything.. If you look through the tunnel, it's pretty much uniform all the way through and suspends in the air just the same...

Different sand grain sizes, how it works?

 

[thelastword]

or is this.....

 

[Pepto]

Something about the physics seems really off.

 

[ChubbleDucks]

Something about the physics seems really off.

Was going to say same. How the car lands seems wrong.

 

[thelastword]

Something about the physics seems really off.

Was going to say same. How the car lands seems wrong.

It's a rough dirt road with many undulations, aka many uneven surfaces, could you guys post gifs of a game that does it more accurately......

Those gifs are sunhilegend's though....

 

[twobear]

I cannot get a good real-time shot, but if you look at time of day for the track, it's the equivalent of twelve noon.

Erm, if it were noon you would expect shadows to be very short because the sun would be overhead, but even on the external areas they aren't at all.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Something about the physics seems really off.

Was going to say same. How the car lands seems wrong.

Agreed, the way it lands the jump seems odd in terms of suspension. The suspension rebounding doesn't seem to make the car bounce, you can clearly see the wheels bobbing as if it's soft, but the car lands as if it's extremely rigid.

GT's suspension physics have always been strange so I don't think this is anything new though.

 

[Pepto]

could you guys post gifs of a game that does it more accurately......

What a weird thing to post...

 

[PeterLegend]

My biggest gripes with GT Sport graphics is probably shadows and anti-aliasing.

Lighting is great and sounds are improved.

I haven't seen much of any damage though....

Also the track list and car list seems low....

 

[sems4arsenal]

My biggest gripes with GT Sport graphics is probably shadows and anti-aliasing.

Lighting is great and sounds are improved.

I haven't seen much of any damage though....

Also the track list and car list seems low....

AA is pretty good on PS4 Pro. The shadows on the Nurbrugring need work no doubt about it.

 

[thelastword]

My biggest gripes with GT Sport graphics is probably shadows and anti-aliasing.

Lighting is great and sounds are improved.

I haven't seen much of any damage though....

Also the track list and car list seems low....

I'm pretty sure PRO got another pass of AA recently, maybe vanilla is not as pristine, but the IQ is not bad there either...

 

[l2ounD]

It's a rough dirt road with many undulations, aka many uneven surfaces, could you guys post gifs of a game that does it more accurately......

https://youtu.be/N5qE1SCcS1E?t=209

nails the landing. score 9/10

https://youtu.be/ZN3_CI2VEJc?t=12

 

[Grassy]

On the nürb it has many trees in 3D in GT sport and the foliage is really not bad ..
shoot from the beta

These are from a batch of screens I already had of the Nurb:



But yeah, I wasn't writing home about them, just pointing out that trees in racing sims have historically been shit, and these are among the better looking for a sim. Far from amazing, but nothing currently available looks as good IMO.

Quick and dirty comparison

GT Sport

Forza 6

Project Cars

Assetto Corsa

IMO Assetto Corsa is the only one that doesn't look that hot tree-wise, they all look good enough though.

P.S: Project Cars and Assetto Corsa pics are both 4K resized to 1080p, PC max settings. Forza 6 is Xbox One version, all gameplay screenshots no photomode(assuming the GT Sport pic is a gameplay shot with no HUD?).

 

[ResidentDante]

Is this real life?

Could have been until the car lands and bounces around like it's something wrong in the physics engine.

could you guys post gifs of a game that does it more accurately......

Touchy subject apparently. Have you learned anything new about dust and sand lying in the air yet btw?

 

[Sebmugi]

(assuming the GT Sport pic is a gameplay shot with no HUD?).

Yes that's it
We clearly see the 2D tree textures massively used in the competition

 

[leeh]

Something about the physics seems really off.

Don't see it. Looks fine to me.