Next gen should every game have an easy mode?

Next gen should every game have an "easy" mode?

  • Yes

    Votes: 66 27.7%

  • No

    Votes: 165 69.3%

  • I'm undecided

    Votes: 7 2.9%
  • Total voters
    238
RedVIper said:
If that's what you want for less skilled gamers then you'll be glad to learn about this thing called youtube, they can go and watch a playtrough of whatever game they want.
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Can I play youtube? Can I press buttons and make the character do things?
 
OmegaSupreme said:
Not seeing where you have to fundamentally change the content of a game? Simply give the player more life or extra lives isn't changing the content of the game. It's giving them more chances. Let's not forget we are talking about the option for an easy mode. Not something the game has to be designed around.
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Explain how you can make something like Dark Souls easier? Extra lives will make no difference because you already have unlimited lives. A large portion of the difficulty stems from the level design (the two examples I already named, primarily). Without redesigning those areas, how can you make it easier?
 
Yeah why not, you choose whichever difficulty you want.

Also important to note that in many games playing on harder difficulties adds a lot of value to the experience, games that give you a real challenge are the ones you're gonna remember, easy games? meh.
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
Explain how you can make something like Dark Souls easier? Extra lives will make no difference because you already have unlimited lives. A large portion of the difficulty stems from the level design (the two examples I already named, primarily). Without redesigning those areas, how can you make it easier?
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So this is a Dark Souls thread exclusively then? Oh, I didn't see that. Easy. Make the enemies easier to kill. See how hard that was?
 
RedVIper said:
If that's what you want for less skilled gamers then you'll be glad to learn about this thing called youtube, they can go and watch a playtrough of whatever game they want.
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As mentioned a few posts up watching something isnt the same as playing it.

Would you really rather someone not play a game you enjoy because they find it too difficult than letting them play the way they want to?
 
OmegaSupreme said:
So this is a Dark Souls thread exclusively then? Oh, I didn't see that. Easy. Make the enemies easier to kill. See how hard that was?
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Exactly and what "elite" players dont realize is an easy mode for some people is the equivalent of normal mode for them.
 
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OmegaSupreme said:
So this is a Dark Souls thread exclusively then? Oh, I didn't see that. Easy. Make the enemies easier to kill. See how hard that was?
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Are you intentionally being dense? The thread title says 'EVERY GAME'. That includes Souls games. No one said anything about the thread being exclusively anything.

And I just said the difficulty stems from the level design. Making the enemies easier to kill is completely irrelevant. You are dreadful at this.
 
Here let me give you guys an example. I love the lore and design of Bloodborne. The game kicked my ass fairly quickly, however. I'm a man of limited free time so I dropped it. I won't get to see all those cool bosses and environments despite enjoying playing the game. So give me an easy mode to make it a little less deadly and it hurts no one and only increases my enjoyment.
 
Nah, let devs do what they want. So not all games will have an easy mode.

Maybe devs should bring back cheat codes. If you want a walk in the park you should at least feel a little dirty for it. ;)
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
Are you intentionally being dense? The thread title says 'EVERY GAME'. That includes Souls games. No one said anything about the thread being exclusively anything.

And I just said the difficulty stems from the level design. Making the enemies easier to kill is completely irrelevant. You are dreadful at this.
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Ok so let's address this. No one is saying change the levels to make them easier. That would be alot of work and alter the vision. What about making death less punishing or a quick save in the easiest mode? See it's not that hard and the developers vision for its standard and higher modes is in tact. Everyone gets to play, everyone is happy.
 
I have a feeling this was about Soul games. People keep asking the game to have easier modes from time to time.

OmegaSupreme said:
Kinda takes the whole interactivity portion out of it wouldn't you say? An easy mode isn't auto play
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I completely agree with the guy who answered you. How can one care much about interactivity when you're more worried about time and story telling? Watching videos perfectly fits that criteria, since you fill in with story and don't need to worry about losing time.
 
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Hostile_18 said:
Ok so let's address this. No one is saying change the levels to make them easier. That would be alot of work and alter the vision. What about making death less punishing or a quick save in the easiest mode? See it's not that hard and the developers vision for its standard and higher modes is in tact. Everyone gets to play, everyone is happy.
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In Blighttown, most of the level is toxic, including a swamp that slows you down and poisons you. You have to walk through it, it's unavoidable.

In The Tomb of the Giants, the level is pitch black and you can see about a foot in front of you. There are fatal drops everywhere.

How can you make those areas easier without changing them?
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
Are you intentionally being dense? The thread title says 'EVERY GAME'. That includes Souls games. No one said anything about the thread being exclusively anything.

And I just said the difficulty stems from the level design. Making the enemies easier to kill is completely irrelevant. You are dreadful at this.
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Here I'll help you out. I've played Dark Souls and I don't see how the challenge came from the level design. I was challenged by the bosses killing me in a few hits and being vulnerable. What was challenging about the level design?
 
Saberyoko said:
I have a feeling this was about Soul games. People keep asking the game to have easier modes from time to time.



I completely agree with the guy who answered you. How can one care much about interactivity when you're more worried about time and story telling? Watching videos perfectly fits that criteria, since you fill in with story and don't need to worry about losing time.
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Easy answer. I can't play a movie. Like I said. I don't have time to "get gud" bro
 
OmegaSupreme said:
Easy answer. I can't play a movie. Like I said. I don't have time to "get gud" bro
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If you don't have time then maybe you shouldn't play that game? Lol

Look dude, I'm not here to mock or demand you to get gud. But if you don't have time why not pick a suitable shorter experience? Why the games/devs have to suit expecifically to your needs?
 
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The Bloody-Nine said:
In Blighttown, most of the level is toxic, including a swamp that slows you down and poisons you. You have to walk through it, it's unavoidable.

In The Tomb of the Giants, the level is pitch black and you can see about a foot in front of you. There are fatal drops everywhere.

How can you make those areas easier without changing them?
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Like I mentioned quick save. Unless your arguing having quick save on an easy mode would ruin it for normal or hard difficulty players.
 
It's an unrealistic thing to wish for, even if PS5/XSEX will have a built-in easy mode (or scene skip mode) some companies will definitely ignore it because of wanting to preserve the magic of their high(er) difficulty games or (worse) because of wanting to sell xp boosters and tons of other microtransactions directly.
 
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Saberyoko said:
If you don't have time then maybe you shouldn't play that game? Lol

Look dude, I'm not here to mock or demand you to get gud. But if you don't have time why not pick a suitable shorter experience? Why the games/devs have to suit expecifically to your needs?
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Why should they suit your needs or requirements? See how easy that is?
 
Saberyoko said:
What needs?
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Whatever they may be. If you like a challenging game then so be it. You can make any game more challenging and no one bats an eye. Do a no-death run of Kid Chamelon(for example lol) Yet there is somehow an uproar over an option to make it easier?
 
Hostile_18 said:
But having selectable difficulty modes it can be and surely that's a better goal.

At the very least purchases can be made purely based on the content on offer rather than the accessibility.
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Difficulty is not an accessibility issue. The medium is active and participatory. The art in video games is the "play." You are approaching this topic from the mindset of an observer of passive entertainment. What you think you are doing is asking for subtitles because you can't hear the dialogue when in reality you are asking for the equivalent of a change in character motivation because you can't relate. You are asking for the book to have a different setting because you don't like the current one. You are asking for the lyrics of a song to be changed because you find them offensive.

That is not to say that every game need use the medium to its fullest, most don't, but the games that strive for something greater need to be allowed. Otherwise, all that is left is focus testing into oblivion followed by stagnation and irrelevance.
 
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There is always some way to make a game easier. Look at the characters they added to Mario Bros. U DX. One which doesn't get hurt by enemies (but can't use powerups) and another which gets a super-power up which only they can grab. I thought these were good additions, there's nothing wrong with more choice.

That said...at some point, making games easier will only allow you to "access the content" of the game, if you see that "content" as artwork, music, cutscenes, etc. If you see the content as a gameplay experience, you would be breaking the developers vision and not really have experienced the game.

Nothing is stopping you from filling out a crossword puzzle by looking at the answers, and the crossword book publisher doesn't care as long as you buy it. However, you missed the point in the first place, taking an opportunity for mental challenge/stimulation and replaced it with busywork to fill your time.

As an analogy, I would encourage a kid to start with an easy character in Mario, and also to fill in a lot of free answers in a crossword puzzle to get a grip on how it works. So, yes, let's have the option please. But I wouldn't delude myself into thinking I was "experiencing" either type of game with those kind of training wheels. I want this feature for 8 year olds, but know it will really be for journalists.
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
So you agree your first idea was asinine. Good. Please explain your 'more lenient respawn' system.
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In that very specific example, sure. It would help tremendously throughout the rest of the game though. Simple respawn having lost none of the progress you've made souls wise. I'm sorry I have to think of all these things for you.
 
Feels like people a are proper grasping at straws to justify no one playing their game on an easy mode. Theres always an unobtrusive way. We can come up with solutions easily and were not even people specialized in game design, imagine what they could come up with.

Funny how people who have the skills try so hard to justify why it would ruin the game experience. I hope when they get older or have less free time they dont get locked out of their favorite franchise/genre.
 
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OmegaSupreme said:
In that very specific example, sure. It would help tremendously throughout the rest of the game though. Simple respawn having lost none of the progress you've made souls wise. I'm sorry I have to think of all these things for you.
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These ideas are just so stupid they didn't occur to me. You should be very proud. Not losing your souls will DEFINITELY prevent you from falling off cliffs in the dark. Have you considered a career as a game designer?
 
Hostile_18 said:
Feels like people a are proper grasping at straws to justify no one playing their game on an easy mode. Theres always an unobtrusive way. We can come up with solutions eassuly and were not even people specialized in game design, imagine what they could come up with.

Funny how people who have the skills try so hard to justify why it would ruin the game experience. I hope when they get older they dont get locked out of their favorite franchise/genre.
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I find it all juvenile. It shouldn't hurt their enjoyment of whatever game if it includes an easy mode yet it somehow does. Why cling on to something that doesn't affect you in the slightest since we are only talking about difficulty options?
 
Hostile_18 said:
As mentioned a few posts up watching something isnt the same as playing it.

Would you really rather someone not play a game you enjoy because they find it too difficult than letting them play the way they want to?
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And playing something on easy mode isn't the same as playing the game as intended by the developers, what's your point?

A 10 year old can read Finnegans Wake, but he probably won't get much from the experience.

Should books come with "easy" modes as well?
 
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The Bloody-Nine said:
These ideas are just so stupid they didn't occur to me. You should be very proud. Not losing your souls will DEFINITELY prevent you from falling off cliffs in the dark. Have you considered a career as a game designer?
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That idea took two seconds. Perhaps tell me an idea of yours that would make it easier in that very specific circumstance.
 
I'm fine with more games being accessible, but I'm usually against any forced targets on developers.

Let the people with the vision decide. Miyazaki being forced into making Bloodborne 2 hand holding mode? It just doesn't seem right.
 
RedVIper said:
And playing something on easy mod isn't the same as playing the game has intended by the developers, what's your point?

A 10 year old can read Finnegans Wake, but he probably won't get much from the experience.

Should books come with "easy" modes as well?
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So why include an easy mode in any game ever then? If it is not the way the developers intended you to play it.
Edit: and a lot of books do come with an easy mode. Cliffs notes.
 
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OmegaSupreme said:
That idea took two seconds. Perhaps tell me an idea of yours that would make it easier in that very specific circumstance.
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I am not the one arguing that you can implement an easy mode without making major changes to the game. That would be you. I'm not going to make your points for you. If I did that, I wouldn't need you. Hang on....
 
100% yes from me.

I am now closing in on the 50 year old camp.

When i was younger i would not even give into the notion of easy being allowed in games but now with my eye sight and reactions getting worse by the year, i still wish to see games through to the end more for the story, the level design and the setting. I have played hundreds of games in my life, completed all the usual suspects of dark souls, bloodborne and nioh's etc.

I understand what hard means relative to games but i also know that soon, next 5-10 years i will be unable to complete games like that due to the natural process of getting old.

If people are so hard arsed about giving an easy option for games then just remove the achievements for completing the game on easy, only allowing it to register if completed on hard.

In the future I don't want to have to resort to watching games on you-tube or streamed by others.

Trust me when i say this, getting old is going to effect everyone and the vast majority of your are going to wish for an easier setting later in life.
 
So what people are saying about Souls now been ruined if it was made easier a few years ago could be leveled at the fighting genre.

Look at Tekken 7 it introduced move shortcuts and players of all skill levels can now pull off moves and have fun. It's less about how to pull it off a complex move but rather when. See the genre adapted and it become more inclusive and it's now more popular than ever.

Inclusivity isnt scary guys. Games are now mass market products, like it or not.
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
I am not the one arguing that you can implement an easy mode without making major changes to the game. That would be you. I'm not going to make your points for you. If I did that, I wouldn't need you. Hang on....
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You gave a very specific circumstance in a specific game. More power to you on that. I never got that far in the game. tbf. I'm curious though... Do you really feel your enjoyment would be diminished if the game had an easy mode?
 
sircaw said:
100% yes from me.

I am now closing in on the 50 year old camp.

When i was younger i would not even give into the notion of easy being allowed in games but now with my eye sight and reactions getting worse by the year, i still wish to see games through to the end more for the story, the level design and the setting. I have played hundreds of games in my life, completed all the usual suspects of dark souls, bloodborne and nioh's etc.

I understand what hard means relative to games but i also know that soon, next 5-10 years i will be unable to complete games like that due to the natural process of getting old.

If people are so hard arsed about giving an easy option for games then just remove the achievements for completing the game on easy, only allowing it to register if completed on hard.

In the future I don't want to have to resort to watching games on you-tube or streamed by others.

Trust me when i say this, getting old is going to effect everyone and the vast majority of your are going to wish for an easier setting later in life.
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Well said.
 
I am going to say yes, because thanks to hardcore surgery a lot of my nerves working retarded and for that, I cannot enjoy Doom Eternal even on easiest difficulty and that pisses me off. Fuck, can I go back. It genuenly saddens me...
 
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