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[RedVIper]

So why include an easy mode in any game ever then? If it is not the way the developers intended you to play it.

Games who's selling point are it's story can benefit from having difficulty modes. This isn't the case for something like Dark souls.

Edit: and a lot of books do come with an easy mode. Cliffs notes.

Sure, some do, some games come with easy modes.

OP is advocating they all should, and that's what I disagree with.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

You gave a very specific circumstance in a specific game. More power to you on that. I never got that far in the game. tbf. I'm curious though... Do you really feel your enjoyment would be diminished if the game had an easy mode?

I am against anyone demanding a creator cater to them. It's not about my enjoyment. It's about game developers being free to make their games how they want. If you don't like what they come up with, play something else. It's really that simple.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I am against anyone demanding a creator cater to them. It's not about my enjoyment. It's about game developers being free to make their games how they want. If you don't like what they come up with, play something else. It's really that simple.

I guess my fundamental disagreement comes down to the fact that I don't find an easy mode being "catered to" I'll give you props if the game would have to be radically altered to make it easier. However, I don't think this would be the case in most games.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Souls type games if better balanced could be much better than slapping an easy mode.

Maybe, don't respawn all enemies when you respawn/rest, allow for grinding hotspots if you need/want etc could make it whole lot more accessible.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I guess my fundamental disagreement comes down to the fact that I don't find an easy mode being "catered to" I'll give you props if the game would have to be radically altered to make it easier. However, I don't think this would be the case in most games.

Probably not in a fair amount of cases. That said, a lot of games have difficulty settings in them anyway.

 

[RedVIper]

So what people are saying about Souls now been ruined if it was made easier a few years ago could be leveled at the fighting genre.

Look at Tekken 7 it introduced move shortcuts and players of all skill levels can now pull off moves and have fun. It's less about how to pull it off a complex move but rather when. See the genre adapted and it become more inclusive and it's now more popular than ever.

Inclusivity isnt scary guys. Games are now mass market products, like it or not.

So every game needs to have mass market appeal?

 

[TacosNSalsa]

If the game is good then I agree with whatever the devs decide to do . They have their reasons for including/ not including one .

 

[Dr.brain64]

Yes. It's part of a good game design.

 

[Saber]

Whatever they may be.

You think I go to a dev and say "hey dev, I want a full hardcore game, colorful characters but not much of dialogue"?

No. Games does not need to fills the player needs.

Funny how people who have the skills try so hard to justify why it would ruin the game experience. I hope when they get older or have less free time they dont get locked out of their favorite franchise/genre.

Seems like a very silly take from ones demanding harder games to become easier just because it need to suit their silly needs. Even more silly if consider that theres a reason for Soul games to be called "Souls", but hey why would you care.

Normally people choose games that fits their playstyle.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Probably not in a fair amount of cases. That said, a lot of games have difficulty settings in them anyway.

Very well.

So every game needs to have mass market appeal?

Why would having an easier difficulty translate to "mass-market appeal" My six-year-old isn't playing Doom Eternal no matter how easy it is lol

 

[synchronicity]

For all who demand an easy mode in everything, I would ask this.

Imagine you are a creator of a game, or whatever really, and you view an element of your creation as integral to the whole. Would you so readily sacrifice that aspect for a theoretical increase in sales.

I can answer for me. I wouldn't even do it for a massive increase in sales. Artistic vision/creative integrity matters to me, and I wouldn't compromise on my vision. Any genuine creator or artist knows from the outset that their work will not speak to everyone. And that is FINE.

 

[RedVIper]

Very well.
Why would having an easier difficulty translate to "mass-market appeal" My six-year-old isn't playing Doom Eternal no matter how easy it is lol

I agree with you.

 

[Nickolaidas]

Every game should have an Easy Mode, a Normal Mode, a Hard Mode and a Nightmare Mode.

There are people who love the setting of the Souls game but are unable to play the games because they're too hard for them.

If you want a challenge, play Hard/Nightmare. If you want to play casually, play Easy. Why the hell are some people opposed to that?

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Read the thread and you'll find out.

 

[Hostile_18]

Normally people choose games that fits their playstyle.

I'd rather people pick the difficulty that matches their ability/time and get to pick what ever game most appeals to them.

Surely that is the better option?

What I do love is the recent trend of games suggesting a difficulty (the way it's meant to be played) but offering options either side of that. That to me is top class game design. Theres an optimal path, but everyone is catered for.

 

[Elektro Demon]

I always play everything on medium. I'm not hardcorezxxx pro ultra skills dude.
So it's good to have options. People who like it easy, medium or hard should have an option to do so.
Nothing wrong with having more choices that suit your playstyle. Everyone's different.

 

[Hostile_18]

Every game should have an Easy Mode, a Normal Mode, a Hard Mode and a Nightmare Mode.

There are people who love the setting of the Souls game but are unable to play the games because they're too hard for them.

If you want a challenge, play Hard/Nightmare. If you want to play casually, play Easy. Why the hell are some people opposed to that?

Exactly my thoughts. Its lack of empathy for others and thinking it will dilute their experience somehow so start throwing around changing of level design and all sorts of far fetched nonsense.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Exactly my thoughts. Its lack of empathy for others and thinking it will dilute their experience somehow so start throwing around changing of level design and all sorts of far fetched nonsense.

Except it isn't far fetched at all, as discussed. What IS far fetched is thinking that every game should cater to everyone. It's absurd. An astonishing level of entitlement.

 

[Saber]

I'd rather people pick the difficulty that matches their ability/time and get to pick what ever game most appeals to them.

And theres already plenty of that. The problem is that is never enought, because people like you wants every game to have an easy mode, regardless of the vision of developer.

Its like Mortal Kombat without the violence. If you take the brutal aspect of MK, then its no longer MK. Just a very generic fighting game.

What I do love is the recent trend of games suggesting a difficulty (the way it's meant to be played) but offering options either side of that. That to me is top class game design. Theres an optimal path, but everyone is catered for.

I rather prefer the trend of people demaning easy mode on Dark Souls, because people aways don't have time for a game, to invest, or whatever.

Worst of them all is these silly takes thinking this is all about challenge and lack of sympathy. You guys don't care about vision at all.

 

[Hostile_18]

Except it isn't far fetched at all, as discussed. What IS far fetched is thinking that every game should cater to everyone. It's absurd. An astonishing level of entitlement.

What's more entitled wanting all games to be played by everyone who wants to via personalised difficulty or wanting certain games that can only be played by a certain few?

 

[synchronicity]

Exactly my thoughts. Its lack of empathy for others and thinking it will dilute their experience somehow so start throwing around changing of level design and all sorts of far fetched nonsense.

empathy? lol

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

What's more entitled wanting all games to be played by everyone who wants to via personalised difficulty or wanting certain games that can only be played by a certain few?

I don't want certain games to be played by a certain few. I want developers to make games how they want. You are the one demanding an easy mode here. So you are the entitled one. It's not complicated.

It IS a little puzzling, given how you claim you play all games on hard difficulty. Why you give a shit is beyond me.

 

[Hostile_18]

And theres already plenty of that. The problem is that is never enought, because people like you wants every game to have an easy mode, regardless of the vision of developer.

Its like Mortal Kombat without the violence. If you take the brutal aspect of MK, then its no longer MK. Just a very generic game.



I rather prefer the trend of people demaning easy mode on Dark Souls, because people aways don't have time for a game, to invest, or whatever.

No one is advocating taking out content thats just twisting it to justify your point of view. Its soley difficulty/skill prohibiting someone to play a game they otherwise would.

But on your point many games offer a blood /gore off mode. Does that option ruin your enjoyment?

 

[Hostile_18]

empathy? lol

"I can play a game and others that want to can't, but as long as I have the skill who cares"

I want games to be enjoyed by everyone who wants to play them. I personally never play on easy, I'm thinking about others here (with the possible exception of Sekiro which I would of lowered the difficulty had I the choice).

 

[Hostile_18]

I don't want certain games to be played by a certain few. I want developers to make games how they want. You are the one demanding an easy mode here. So you are the entitled one. It's not complicated.

It IS a little puzzling, given how you claim you play all games on hard difficulty. Why you give a shit is beyond me.

Because I have friends who give up on certain games because of the difficulty and I can appreciate how frustrating that must be. Especially when games arnt cheap. Plus in the future as my skills lesson perhaps I too will be glad of a easier way to play.

 

[synchronicity]

"I can play a game and others that want to can't, but as long as I have the skill who cares"

I want games to be enjoyed by everyone who wants to play them. I personally never play on easy, I'm thinking about others here (with the possible exception of Sekiro which I would of lowered the difficulty had I the choice).

What does it matter what you want? That's where you're missing the mark imho.

I want to shit gold nuggets.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Because I have friends who give up on games because of the difficulty and I can appreciate how frustrating that must be. Especially when games arnt cheap. Plus in the future as my skills lesson perhaps I too will be glad of a easier way to play.

Tell your friends to play other games.

 

[Bakkus]

No. Less skilled "gamers" have to accept that not every game is made for everyone to be able to enjoy.

 

[Hostile_18]

What does it matter what you want? That's where you're missing the mark imho.

I want to shit gold nuggets.

Because people arnt getting these games for free there paying money to enjoy them.

 

[Saber]

No one is advocating taking out content thats just twisting it to justify your point of view. Its soley difficulty/skill prohibiting someone to play a game they otherwise would.

But on your point many games offer a blood /gore off mode. Does that option ruin your enjoyment?

Heavy violence is the key element of MK in the same way unforgiving difficulty is of Dark Souls.

You already comproved what I was guessing. You don't care about the vision and freedom of developers. You want them to cater your needs.

 

[Hostile_18]

Tell your friends to play other games.

I honestly don't mean it in a nasty way but that's a proper shitty answer.

 

[Hostile_18]

Heavy violence is the key element of MK in the same way unforgiving difficulty is of Dark Souls.

You already comproved what I was guessing. You don't care about the vision and freedom of developers. You want them to cater your needs.

What are my needs? That everyone who pays money for a game should be able to enjoy it? Sure. If a developer cant do that, they have failed IMO.

 

[synchronicity]

Because people arnt getting these games for free there paying money to enjoy them.

They are not required to buy them. Right?

We've had this discussion before on gaf, and probably many times.

This is a slippery slope. Where does it end? Should writers who write books that are impenetrable to many readers do a re-write - dumb it down so all can understand the message? Should artists whose paintings are found unappealing to many change their color schemes? I mean where does the consumer/audience acquire the right to dictate to the creator?

 

[Virex]

Yes, if you're a retard. No one is forcing you to play a game. If you're too dumb to play it then go play something else

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I honestly don't mean it in a nasty way but that's a proper shitty answer.

When did responsibility cease to exist? If you buy a hard game, expecting it to be easy, that's on you. Do some research. If you go into Schindler's List expecting a comedy and come out complaining that it wasn't funny, you're a goddamn moron.

 

[Fbh]

No. I'm against the "every game should ........" mentality in general.
Let devs make the games they want the way they want.

 

[Hostile_18]

They are not required to buy them. Right?

We've had this discussion before on gaf, and probably many times.

This is a slippery slope. Where does it end? Should writers who write books that are impenetrable to many readers do a re-write - dumb it down so all can understand the message? Should artists whose paintings are found unappealing to many change their color schemes? I mean where does the consumer acquire the right to dictate to the creator?

A reader can read everything written so what they take away from it is up to them.

A viewer can view the whole of an artists work. What they take away from it is up to them.

Surely you can see a difference between that and a person who buys a game and cant get past the first chapter or whatever.

 

[Hostile_18]

When did responsibility cease to exist? If you buy a hard game, expecting it to be easy, that's on you. Do some research. If you go into Schindler's List expecting a comedy and come out complaining that it wasn't funny, you're a goddamn moron.

But with the littlest of tweaking a game can be for everyone that's my point. Everyone gets the experience they want.

 

[EightBit Man]

Yes, but not for serious gameplay reasons. Sometimes it's nice to go through a game again without much effort.

From a historical and "serious gameplay" perspective , the Easy difficulty has been obsolete for a majority of games after the 8-bit era, as well as the 16-bit one when games' lengths were artificially increased by level design, and enemy/object placement. Though there were also exceptions, even in the 8-bit days:

(a fairly easy game IMO, especially in comparison to it's predecessor)

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

But with the littlest of tweaking a game can be for everyone that's my point. Everyone gets the experience they want.

We've been over this. It's not the 'littlest of tweaking'. You're literally making that up.

If you want an easy experience, buy an easy game. If you want to watch a horror movie, watch a horror movie. Don't complain that a comedy isn't scary.

Not everything is made for everyone. And not everyone is the same. I said earlier in the thread, what if easy mode isn't easy enough for everyone? What then?

 

[synchronicity]

A reader can read everything written so what they take away from it is up to them.

A viewer can view the whole of an artists work. What they take away from it is up to them.

Surely you can see a difference between that and a person who just a game and cant get past the first chapter or whatever.

Reading and comprehending are very different things.

Again, no one is forced to purchase a game, and in the age of the internet, finding out if something is likely for you or not is not a difficult task. And if you're wrong, so what? We all make regrettable purchases. What does a person do when they're dissatisfied with something. They avoid that thing in the future. Don't buy the works of these developers if you find that they're not for you. And if you're unsure in the first place, wait for a sale, borrow from a friend, etc.

For me, it's a very simple issue. I'll ask it again. Why does the consumer/audience have any right or voice in censoring/altering the work of a creator? Where does the idea behind this desired privilege originate?

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I agree with you.

I see what you did here. Doom Eternal isn't meant for her. Dark Souls was meant for me I just suck at it. lol. Having a lower difficulty option in this game or others is not the same as saying an M rated game isn't meant for a six-year-old

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Here's one for you fine gents who are totally discussing this in good faith: Alien Isolation. At launch, this game didn't have an easy mode. It was later patched in because of complaints from poor bastards like me had thought the game was to difficult and we wanted to play the game. Now did the developer "compromise their vision" or simply make it more accessible?

 

[Hostile_18]

We've been over this. It's not the 'littlest of tweaking'. You're literally making that up.

If you want an easy experience, buy an easy game. If you want to watch a horror movie, watch a horror movie. Don't complain that a comedy isn't scary.

Not everything is made for everyone. And not everyone is the same. I said earlier in the thread, what if easy mode isn't easy enough for everyone? What then?

Cheat codes use to be put in games for fun. Your not seriously suggesting in most cases altering player health and enemy damage would be alot of work?

Content should decide what game is for what person not a skill challenge.

 

[Paasei]

You think developers don't want part of their potential audience to play their game?

Not if that interferes with the original plan of said game. Dark Souls, as an example, is never meant to be easy. Therefore it won't and should never get an easy mode.
The game's selling point IS to give you a challenge. That's the whole point of the game.

You simply can't make everyone happy, no matter how hard you will try. Doesn't matter what it's about. In this case difficulty.

 

[Dark Star]

Some games, like Dark Souls, wouldn't even be fun if they were easy. It's the repetitive dying and discovering/rediscovering areas, weapons, enemies, etc you didn't see on your first (10) runs back to the boss that makes it interesting. If those games were easy, people would spend only like 10 hours with them (instead of the usual NG 60 hours).

That being said, many games are inherently easy, and are meant for a younger audience. That's cool, and many of these easier games are just relaxing to play. You just need to know what button to press and you're good to go. No learning curve, no deep understanding of NPC move-sets or weapon mechanics, no gear building or stats or anything to deal with,etc.

But when it comes to mature games like Uncharted, TLOU and God of War (PS4), and whatever other action/adventure game comes to mind, it's way more fun when you play on the hardest difficulty, because then your actions actually matter. You're not just spamming buttons, you're methodically playing the game, rationing bullets, being careful. It's suspenseful, and much more rewarding when games are hard.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Cheat codes use to be put in games for fun. Your bit seriously suggesting in most cases altering player health and enemy damage would be alot of work?

Content should decide what game is for what person not a skill challenge.

No, the developer makes their game, their way. If you like what you see, do some research, read some reviews, and buy it. Or don't. Don't blindly buy it and then whine that it's too hard and they should make it easier so you can play, too.

And you didn't answer me. Not everyone will be able to beat a game on easy. Then where do you go in your admirable desire to have everyone be able to complete every game ever made?

 

[Lionel Richie]

NO, fuck no. There are a lot of options with basically no gameplay and most games these days are incredibly easy as it is. Even hard games are not insurmountable, play enough of Sekiro and you will eventually beat it. Besides, there's no easy mode in life player, stop being a useless fucking zoomer and apply yourself into something.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Some games, like Dark Souls, wouldn't even be fun if they were easy. It's the repetitive dying and discovering/rediscovering areas, weapons, enemies, etc you didn't see on your first (10) runs back to the boss. If those games were easy, people would spend only like 10 hours with them (instead of the usual NG 60 hours).

That being said, many games are inherently easy, and are meant for a younger audience. That's cool, and many of these easier games are just relaxing to play. You just need to know what button to press and you're good to go. No learning curve, no deep understanding of NPC move-sets or weapon mechanics, no gear building or stats or anything to deal with,etc.

But even games like Uncharted and God of War and whatever action/adventure game is way more fun when you play on the hardest difficulty, because then your actions actually matter. You're not just spamming buttons, you're methodically playing the game, rationing bullets, being careful. It's suspenseful, and much more rewarding when games are hard.

This is an excellent post. Well thought out without resorting to the "git gud" bs a lot of the Souls fans post about. For me, it all boils down to time management. If an easier mode means I'll see the end of the game I'm all for it. I perfectly understand the reward of playing a challenging game. It's not the same for me or everyone else, however. It's the same as filler sidequests in any game. I largely don't do them. Not because of any challenge problems but of time. A game must respect my time for me to get enjoyment out of it.

 

[Hostile_18]

No, the developer makes their game, their way. If you like what you see, do some research, read some reviews, and buy it. Or don't. Don't blindly buy it and then whine that it's too hard and they should make it easier so you can play, too.

And you didn't answer me. Not everyone will be able to beat a game on easy. Then where do you go in your admirable desire to have everyone be able to complete every game ever made?

I think very few would be not be able to beat easy/explorer style difficulty. Such a low percentage it wouldn't be worth worrying about necessarily. But even those few as long as they get a reasonable way and get their moneys worth I think they would be happy.